Why not be straight with your partner?

[LostIt2010]

That is how it made me feel!

 

When did I become the mean mommy in the reenactment of your childhood issues?

 

Or, did you simply want to come home and host the family gatherings? Spend some time with your children? Still be perceived as the all around good-guy family man? Still need that illusion to keep you whole?

 

Because the truth of the matter is: you were obssessed with her! You emotionally checked out on all of us! You were ghost Dad, ghost husband, ghost employee, ghost man.

 

And when you could have her, finally full-time, why was that the last thing you seemed to want?

 

How unfair! To her, to me....to yourself.

 

Because now you spend every day trying to reconcile the man we all thought you were, with the man who lied to his loved ones every day for a very long time.

 

We have forgiven you. You will NEVER forgive yourself.

 

Sad, isn't it? When you could have just been honest about it all.

 

spark i have read what you have told me, and alot of things you say on this forum. you are so wise and have such a grasp on this whole type thing seems like. you get it, from all sides.

[sally4sara]

Because he is not I. People from different cultures, different religions, different races, different value systems are in relationships all the time.

 

Oh yes, people with different values get together all the time - but how often does it work for them?

The rest - culture, race, religion...can still share values in common.

[donnamaybe]

I'm sure you'll come up with another "rational" explanation...

 

And I was right!

 

Unfortunately, you left out the part about the daughter with the old lady purse snatching boyfriend. Hmmm.....

[donnamaybe]

Oh yes, people with different values get together all the time - but how often does it work for them?

The rest - culture, race, religion...can still share values in common.

 

Yup. Values. A personal belief in how people should conduct themselves where other people are involved; could get hurt; could waste YEARS of their life because of someone else's lies and deceit.

[White Flower]

I have no axe to grind on this issue, as I chose to have an illicit affair, and (belatedly) decided that truthfulness was in everybody's best interest. So tell me your stories, and be civil about it, and maybe we can all benefit by the knowledge gained.

 

Joe I have always been open and honest. I asked my H to always be the same with me before we M. If we ever wanted anyone else, let's just split up so we don't have to lie, etc.

 

He lied almost every day for 25 about everthing from the stupidist things to the big things.

 

Over time I guess I developed a thick skin and and a blasé attitude about it. Delusion of a happy M over, complacency set it.

 

Met MM and enjoyed a wonderful EA. When I knew it was going to turn PA I decided to pull out of M. By then my STBXH and I had many, MANY problems none of which could be cured with counseling, communication, etc., because he was a narcissist and just couldn't be reasoned with. Every time a counselor backed me up we had to change MCs or stop going altogether. Our M just couldn't win. So, after my EA was becoming apparent to him he decided that all our prior problems were erased and we get to now focus on WF's latest indescretions. Ha ha what a joke!

 

He made snide remarks and inuendos about my whereabouts, etc., but would never admit to his own EA. As a narcissist and a pessimist he needed to put the negative focus on me and divert it away from himself. He even terrorized me once in a while; act all sweet in front of the kids and when they weren't looking he'd whisper something really nasty in my ear.

 

I wouldn't admit the EA because he would never work on all the prior problems so why focus on this last one while I was preparing to file and get out anyway. I did tell him up front that the M was over, please just sleep in another room, and let's live life separately until we're split. He didn't need nor deserve any truth because he never gave it to me.

 

*He had an EA and made me discover it on my own

*He never ended the EA even though MC suggested NC call or letter

*He gambled our retirement away, and let my tax accountant inform me

*He hid money with his family, and they kept his secrets

 

Our M was over anyway, so why give information on the last bit, the best bit of my life, to him? Why give him that?

[jennie-jennie]

And I was right!

 

Unfortunately, you left out the part about the daughter with the old lady purse snatching boyfriend. Hmmm.....

 

That was so far fetched I did not consider it worthy of a response.

[White Flower]

My MM is honest to me to the degree that he rather hurts me than is dishonest.

I just wanted to say you make a strong point here. Even serial cheaters get tired of lying and enjoy telling the truth...even if it means hurting someone. Telling the painful truth is more freeing than telling a lie.

[donnamaybe]

That was so far fetched I did not consider it worthy of a response.

 

You mean there are no men who have girlfriends who snatch purses from old ladies?

 

I know why the non-answer. I think we all do.

[White Flower]

I just wanted to say you make a strong point here. Even serial cheaters get tired of lying and enjoy telling the truth after they've learned this...even if it means hurting someone. Telling the painful truth is more freeing than telling a lie.

 

I meant to say, " Even serial cheaters get tired of lying and enjoy telling the truth after they've learned this...even if it means hurting someone".

[jennie-jennie]

What if you had a daughter and she was with a guy who robbed old ladies of their purses as a pastime? Because his personal belief system makes that okay, you would overlook it and welcome him into your daughter's life without a word?

 

You mean there are no men who have girlfriends who snatch purses from old ladies?

 

I know why the non-answer. I think we all do.

 

If a guy believed robbing old ladies of their purses was morally okay, he would most likely be a very non-compassionate man and thus not a man I would find suitable for my daughter.

 

A more interesting example in the context of affairs would be what would I do if I found out that my daughter or my daughter's husband was having an affair and the WS in question shared the same value system and circumstances as my MM?

 

I will have to think about that before I can answer.

[bananalaffytaffy]

I meant to say, " Even serial cheaters get tired of lying and enjoy telling the truth after they've learned this...even if it means hurting someone".

Isn't it funny though, how they selectively decide who to tell the truth to? Surely not the spouse- hence the purpose of this thread.

 

Everybody knows why they don't tell. They don't want to lose what they've got. Be it marriage, a wife, kids, real estate, bank account, friends, etc etc etc. The risk of losing those things is typically too high, and that's why they don't disclose their infidelity. Let's be honest- it's usually not because they are "so afraid" of hurting their spouses. It's to cover their as$es.

 

JMO.

[donnamaybe]

I guess I would correlate the purse snatching (robbing a woman of her purse) to that of a man leading a double life (robbing a woman of her life - a chance at happiness with a man who loves her).

 

I think I'd rather lose my purse. I could always cancel and re-order my credit cards.

[jennie-jennie]

I guess I would correlate the purse snatching (robbing a woman of her purse) to that of a man leading a double life (robbing a woman of her life - a chance at happiness with a man who loves her).

 

I think I'd rather lose my purse. I could always cancel and re-order my credit cards.

 

NOW it became an interesting analogy.

 

The old lady is of course aware that she is being robbed. The BS is not.

 

The BS might decide to stay with the "robber" even if she knew the truth. The old lady most certainly would not.

 

What can I say? I agree with you that my MM should set his wife free, free to find a man who truly loves her. I have told him as much. But I can't make him do it.

 

All the men I have loved have had flaws. Don't we all? "Wanting to be Mr Good Guy" is my MM's.

Edited May 12, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[donnamaybe]

NOW it became an interesting analogy.

 

The old lady is of course aware that she is being robbed. The BS is not.

 

Not while all the sneaking and lying is going on, but once the A is discovered, and if it has gone on for YEARS, THEN a person will know that portion of their life was stolen.

 

As for flaws, we're not talking about a guy who forgets to take out the trash on Monday morning.

[reboot]

NOW it became an interesting analogy.

 

The old lady is of course aware that she is being robbed. The BS is not.

 

The BS might decide to stay with the "robber" even if she knew the truth. The old lady most certainly would not.

 

What can I say? I agree with you that my MM should set his wife free, free to find a man who truly loves her. I have told him as much. But I can't make him do it.

 

All the men I have loved have had flaws. Don't we all? "Wanting to be Mr Good Guy" is my MM's.

 

See, when you put it like this, you earn my respect. Not that you asked for it or needed it, just saying.

[JustJoe]

Without invoking the dreaded "purse snatching", analogy which does have some validity, IMO, I would also like to point out that along with the deceit is always a fair amount of hypocrisy. How many times have we read posts by OM/OW's and WS'S who claim a strong morality, yet are in Affairs, and being dishonest, up to their eyeballs. Is it really worth it?.......Jennie, I do realize that two people in an affair do not have to share the same morality, but they DO have to accept the AP'S morality, and to some extent, abdicate their own value system. You may not lie , yourself, but don't you have to accept your partner's lying, and with that, the knowledge that he is, in fact, a dishonest person?

[White Flower]

Isn't it funny though, how they selectively decide who to tell the truth to? Surely not the spouse- hence the purpose of this thread.

 

Everybody knows why they don't tell. They don't want to lose what they've got. Be it marriage, a wife, kids, real estate, bank account, friends, etc etc etc. The risk of losing those things is typically too high, and that's why they don't disclose their infidelity. Let's be honest- it's usually not because they are "so afraid" of hurting their spouses. It's to cover their as$es.

 

JMO.

Your opinion is a good one banana. He was selective for many years. I pointed out to him how sick it was. Even though I was a part of it, I saw so many wonderful things about him and wanted HIM to have the freedom of being real all the time. Like Joe, I couldn't handle the lies anymore, even if they were benefitting me. So I asked him to leave or I would leave him and look for a more authentic life.

 

MM claims he is learning how to confront his wife in IC so that he CAN tell her the truth, all of it. I also suggested (before our breakup) that he learn to forgive himself even if his wife can't or won't. He'll never get beyond all of this if he doesn't do that. While it may not be likely for a serial cheater to be completely honest, it can happen. I just can't wait around any longer to see it happen with my guy. I wish him the best in being straight with her.

[DadofTwoGirls]

gay person be 'straight' with their partner;)..just asking.

[Ann_Igma]

NOW it became an interesting analogy.

 

The old lady is of course aware that she is being robbed. The BS is not.

 

The BS might decide to stay with the "robber" even if she knew the truth. The old lady most certainly would not.

 

What can I say? I agree with you that my MM should set his wife free, free to find a man who truly loves her. I have told him as much. But I can't make him do it.

 

All the men I have loved have had flaws. Don't we all? "Wanting to be Mr Good Guy" is my MM's.

 

Having a flaw is one thing, but he has been stealing this woman's *entire life* for years. Doesn't that level of cruelty bother you? If he went around kicking puppies, would it not phase you, because he doesn't kick you?

 

So he's staying in his M "for the sake of the children" (even though divorce supposedly isn't seen as a bad thing and is in fact seen as a learning tool for children in your country) but not caring at all about what might be good for the W who is also in that M?

 

He is free to traipse about and love who he wants, and to be loved - but he can't allow her to love or be loved?

 

He sounds like a real monster to me.

[White Flower]

You may not lie , yourself, but don't you have to accept your partner's lying, and with that, the knowledge that he is, in fact, a dishonest person?

This was the thing that made me want more. He really is such a wonderful, kind, and giving person. Why not integrate all of it and be totally authentic? Why be shady in just this one area of your life when you can be whole and enjoy that wholeness with someone you really love?

 

Anyway, that's just me.

[ladydesigner]

Isn't it funny though, how they selectively decide who to tell the truth to? Surely not the spouse- hence the purpose of this thread.

 

Everybody knows why they don't tell. They don't want to lose what they've got. Be it marriage, a wife, kids, real estate, bank account, friends, etc etc etc. The risk of losing those things is typically too high, and that's why they don't disclose their infidelity. Let's be honest- it's usually not because they are "so afraid" of hurting their spouses. It's to cover their as$es.

 

JMO.

 

I think the bolded is mostly why I don't tell.I don't want to break up my children's family especially since we are getting along just fine now. I also feel since my H did not come completely clean nor do I. I probably never would have had my RA if my H hadn't strayed first. Since evening the score I feel much better about his A, but at the expense of my own integrity. To be blunt I do not feel my H deserves the truth.

[reboot]

Maybe we should be a little careful how we label people. Calling someone a monster because they cheat on a spouse seems a bit overboard. He may treat her like a princess otherwise, and he might be the best dad in the world. We don't know these things. Not saying I agree with his choices, but that certainly doesn't make him a monster.

[JustJoe]

WF, that's another reason for this thread. As I see it, the dishonesty , except initially, doesn't even benefit the person being dishonest. Sure, they get to stay in their marriage, but if that was such a good thing, they probably wouldn't have cheated in the first place. They aren't able to teach morality to their kids, because they have none , themselves. BTW, after this thread is exhausted, I'm going to start another one about why BS'S would take their WS'S back, so stay tuned.

[JustJoe]

And....as always.....I THANK EVERYBODY, who has contributed, and been civil about it. I have learned a great deal about myself from reading the thoughtful posts, I've found here.

[jennie-jennie]

Not while all the sneaking and lying is going on, but once the A is discovered, and if it has gone on for YEARS, THEN a person will know that portion of their life was stolen.

As for flaws, we're not talking about a guy who forgets to take out the trash on Monday morning.

 

LOL My exSOs had worse flaws than that.

 

The question is I guess if you consider the MM to have a defect character or if it is something that through IC can be improved. I am encouraging my MM to go to IC.

 

I don't believe that his problems would be solved just by me disappearing from his life. That would of course end his present infidelity, that is true. But I believe the reasons for his wanting to be Mr Nice Guy instead of doing the adult thing and getting a divorce or telling his wife, go way back to his childhood.

 

My MM is my SO. Since when do we consider it to be a solution to disappear from our loved one's life instead of encouraging them to seek help with us by their side?