Why not be straight with your partner?

[ladydesigner]

WF, that's another reason for this thread. As I see it, the dishonesty , except initially, doesn't even benefit the person being dishonest. Sure, they get to stay in their marriage, but if that was such a good thing, they probably wouldn't have cheated in the first place. They aren't able to teach morality to their kids, because they have none , themselves. BTW, after this thread is exhausted, I'm going to start another one about why BS'S would take their WS'S back, so stay tuned.

 

I'm sorry JustJoe I like you, but I don't necessarily like what you have written here. Morality also can mean different things to different people and I do not believe there is an absolute. If you have children will you tell them of your involvement with a MW and how moral of you that was?

[donnamaybe]

My MM is my SO. Since when do we consider it to be a solution to disappear from our loved one's life instead of encouraging them to seek help with us by their side?

I guess it depends on how long MY SO would refuse to address the situation and the severity of his behavior. If it were a situation like this, it wouldn't go on for a month, let alone - what is it? 4+ years? That smacks of a man who knows damn good and well that you'll keep hanging around whether he does anything about it or not.

 

Lucky him. Poor wife.

[donnamaybe]

I'm sorry JustJoe I like you, but I don't necessarily like what you have written here. Morality also can mean different things to different people and I do not believe there is an absolute. If you have children will you tell them of your involvement with a MW and how moral of you that was?

 

Oh, sure. We all know parents with a "do as I say, not as I do" mentality.

[White Flower]

BTW, after this thread is exhausted, I'm going to start another one about why BS'S would take their WS'S back, so stay tuned.

You won't get answers like...

 

I like our retirement portfolio, how good he is in bed, how much he makes me laugh, or anything like that. You'll hear how he worked his arse off to prove his love to her but even that can be faked. Just ask the OW they're still sleeping with. Sorry. Sad but true.

[JustJoe]

Good question, LD. I probably won't tell them about my past sexual/relationship history. Hopefully, I won't repeat that same mistake (having an affair), after I have kids. Like Val Kilmer, in TOMBSTONE, my hypocrisy has limits.

[ladydesigner]

Oh, sure. We all know parents with a "do as I say, not as I do" mentality.

 

I hear you. I can only hope that they will not make the mistakes that I have made.

[ladydesigner]

Good question, LD. I probably won't tell them about my past sexual/relationship history. Hopefully, I won't repeat that same mistake (having an affair), after I have kids. Like Val Kilmer, in TOMBSTONE, my hypocrisy has limits.

 

Yep. My kids will never know of my A. It was the biggest mistake of my life. It was made in a state of anger and revenge. No excuses here I own it. I can still teach them good morals.

[Snowflower]

I think the bolded is mostly why I don't tell.I don't want to break up my children's family especially since we are getting along just fine now. I also feel since my H did not come completely clean nor do I. I probably never would have had my RA if my H hadn't strayed first. Since evening the score I feel much better about his A, but at the expense of my own integrity. To be blunt I do not feel my H deserves the truth.

 

Just a thought, LD...have you ever thought of trying to get your H to come clean about everything and then you do the same? I understand (or at least it seems to me) that you want to maintain the status quo of a stable home life for children and so you keep quiet.

 

I don't know, it just seems like there is a lot of potential for your marriage from your posts, despite what has happened between the two of you (his A and your RA).

 

I'm one that strongly believes that true intimacy comes from honesty. And while I don't participate in those rather tiresome discussions here about disclosing affairs (SO TIRED of those ), I do see the value in the blunt honesty approach.

 

My H confessed his A and while it was so painful for both of us, we learned a lot about each other and the emotional intimacy between us grew deeper than it ever had been before. It was like we walked through fire together and came out stronger for it.

 

 

Just a thought and please don't feel like you need to explain yourself...I don't want to open that discussion here on this thread...the tell vs. don't tell.

[donnamaybe]

You won't get answers like...

 

I like our retirement portfolio, how good he is in bed, how much he makes me laugh, or anything like that. You'll hear how he worked his arse off to prove his love to her but even that can be faked. Just ask the OW they're still sleeping with. Sorry. Sad but true.

This was waaayyyy beneath you WF.

 

So are you saying YOUR ex-MM has a new OW then?

[ladydesigner]

Just a thought, LD...have you ever thought of trying to get your H to come clean about everything and then you do the same? I understand (or at least it seems to me) that you want to maintain the status quo of a stable home life for children and so you keep quiet.

 

I don't know, it just seems like there is a lot of potential for your marriage from your posts, despite what has happened between the two of you (his A and your RA).

 

I'm one that strongly believes that true intimacy comes from honesty. And while I don't participate in those rather tiresome discussions here about disclosing affairs (SO TIRED of those ), I do see the value in the blunt honesty approach.

 

My H confessed his A and while it was so painful for both of us, we learned a lot about each other and the emotional intimacy between us grew deeper than it ever had been before. It was like we walked through fire together and came out stronger for it.

 

 

Just a thought and please don't feel like you need to explain yourself...I don't want to open that discussion here on this thread...the tell vs. don't tell.

 

Some days I do want to get it all out, but I just don't want to deal with the outcome. I feel terrible for the RA and don't want my kids to live through what I lived through when my mother's A was discovered (a whole other story). I have already put my kids through a lot just dealing with my H's A. At times I feel like maybe we should just get a D, just too much water under the bridge. Other days it seems salvageable. Lately things have been great between us. I also don't want to split up the family and I feel my H would D me even though I acted in retaliation. I know it is no excuse, but it is...argghhh it is all very hard. I hate that I had a RA I really do.

[Snowflower]

You won't get answers like...

 

I like our retirement portfolio, how good he is in bed, how much he makes me laugh, or anything like that. You'll hear how he worked his arse off to prove his love to her but even that can be faked. Just ask the OW they're still sleeping with. Sorry. Sad but true.

 

Huh? What do you mean by this? C'mon WF, you've always been so understanding with us BWs...

[JustJoe]

Snowflower, You don't like my thread? I'm really, really hurt and dismayed.

[Snowflower]

Which thread?

 

This one or the new one you are proposing? I find this one interesting and I can't wait for the new one.

[JustJoe]

Now you're just trying to schmooze me!

[White Flower]

You won't get answers like...

 

I like our retirement portfolio, how good he is in bed, how much he makes me laugh, or anything like that. You'll hear how he worked his arse off to prove his love to her but even that can be faked. Just ask the OW they're still sleeping with. Sorry. Sad but true.

 

This was waaayyyy beneath you WF.

 

So are you saying YOUR ex-MM has a new OW then?

Oh donna, once again you misunderstand me.

 

Not at all. What I'm saying is, sometimes it is just as practical for the BS to take a WS back for the same reasons that the WS says he/she won't leave. That's all. But since so much compassion is expected for the BS, the BS can't really be as honest in posting; therefore, won't admit to all the practicalities that come along with mending a M, even a bad M.

 

That's all.

[White Flower]

Huh? What do you mean by this? C'mon WF, you've always been so understanding with us BWs...

I can see I've upset some people with a practical and truthful answer. I'm sorry for this. I stand by it, but I guess it didn't come out the way that it should have.

 

Time to bow out. Hope you all have a wonderful day.

[xxoo]

My MM is my SO. Since when do we consider it to be a solution to disappear from our loved one's life instead of encouraging them to seek help with us by their side?

 

Not necessarily disappear, but there is definitely a point where I would stop enabling poor behavior. I would stop giving money to a drug addicted child, for example, even if it meant I was in terrified at the thought of them being on the street. Similarly, I would kick out a SO that was acting in ways abusive to me or others, as I define abusive. I consider a secret affair, complete with lies and gaslighting, to be emotionally abusive.

 

Tough love is extremely difficult, but sometimes necessary. A lot of people seem to need to hit rock bottom before they are willing to do the hard work.

[Snowflower]

I can see I've upset some people with a practical and truthful answer. I'm sorry for this. I stand by it, but I guess it didn't come out the way that it should have.

 

Time to bow out. Hope you all have a wonderful day.

 

Nope, you didn't upset me.

 

I was just trying to understand what you were saying in your post. You've always been cool and I was wondering about your change of attitude was all.

 

Take care of yourself.

[Snowflower]

Some days I do want to get it all out, but I just don't want to deal with the outcome. I feel terrible for the RA and don't want my kids to live through what I lived through when my mother's A was discovered (a whole other story). I have already put my kids through a lot just dealing with my H's A. At times I feel like maybe we should just get a D, just too much water under the bridge. Other days it seems salvageable. Lately things have been great between us. I also don't want to split up the family and I feel my H would D me even though I acted in retaliation. I know it is no excuse, but it is...argghhh it is all very hard. I hate that I had a RA I really do.

 

Thanks for answering!

 

I hear ya. It is so difficult to incorporate an affair into your marital history where sometimes it seems salvageable and other times it does not. I'm glad to hear it is getting better though.

 

Have you ever done MC? It might help...although it is more difficult when there are big issues beneath the surface.

[White Flower]

Nope, you didn't upset me.

 

I was just trying to understand what you were saying in your post. You've always been cool and I was wondering about your change of attitude was all.

 

Take care of yourself.

I will, you too.

 

No change of attitude. Just an honest look at how it all works from my own life experience. Nothing is as it seems and rarely does anyone truly come straight. I wish it were so, but it isn't. That is true for both sides.

 

Sometimes I think BS get so caught up in the betrayal that it diverts their attention from complaints about WS that they had of their own pre-D-day. Suddenly they never complained, had any problems, or had any agenda of working on their M. D-day took care of all that. Not true for all, but some. Not to say that is bad, we all need to work out our M quirks, but sometimes the attention gets shifted entirely on the WS and their inequities and BS has no light shed on thier issues or the M itself. KWIM?

[PhoenixRise]

I can see I've upset some people with a practical and truthful answer. I'm sorry for this. I stand by it, but I guess it didn't come out the way that it should have.

 

Time to bow out. Hope you all have a wonderful day.

 

 

It wasn't the practicality or the "truthfulness" of your answer that people are questioning. I think the majority of BW who post here would say those "practical and truthful" reasons don't apply to them. I know they don't in my case.

 

I hope JustJoe does start the thread. It will be interesting to see what answers we do get.

[jennie-jennie]

See, when you put it like this, you earn my respect. Not that you asked for it or needed it, just saying.

 

Thanks, your words do mean something to me.

[Snowflower]

I will, you too.

 

No change of attitude. Just an honest look at how it all works from my own life experience. Nothing is as it seems and rarely does anyone truly come straight. I wish it were so, but it isn't. That is true for both sides.

 

Sometimes I think BS get so caught up in the betrayal that it diverts their attention from complaints about WS that they had of their own pre-D-day. Suddenly they never complained, had any problems, or had any agenda of working on their M. D-day took care of all that. Not true for all, but some. Not to say that is bad, we all need to work out our M quirks, but sometimes the attention gets shifted entirely on the WS and their inequities and BS has no light shed on thier issues or the M itself. KWIM?

 

I know exactly what you mean!

 

I was talking about almost this very thing on another thread today...the responsibility of the BS for the issues in the marriage. And how this is different than saying the BS is at fault for the affair.

 

It does seem that the attention does get shifted to the WS as you mention. I guess this is because they are the spouse that strayed from the marriage and is therefore the bad person in the relationship.

 

I do take a lot of responsibility for what happened in my marriage before my husband's affair. I feel like I've talked about it ad nauseum here on various threads.

 

And I've been told that I shouldn't take any blame but there is a fine distinction between blaming a BS for the affair and the BS taking responsibility for the marital climate preceding the affair.

 

My marriage pretty much sucked pre-affair. And much of it was from my own inattentiveness.

[jennie-jennie]

Without invoking the dreaded "purse snatching", analogy which does have some validity, IMO, I would also like to point out that along with the deceit is always a fair amount of hypocrisy. How many times have we read posts by OM/OW's and WS'S who claim a strong morality, yet are in Affairs, and being dishonest, up to their eyeballs. Is it really worth it?.......Jennie, I do realize that two people in an affair do not have to share the same morality, but they DO have to accept the AP'S morality, and to some extent, abdicate their own value system. You may not lie , yourself, but don't you have to accept your partner's lying, and with that, the knowledge that he is, in fact, a dishonest person?

 

But I don't consider him to be a dishonest person. I consider him to do the best he personally can in a bad situation where he is torn in two directions. I read one analogy by Francesco Alberoni where the MM's situation was compared to the woman in the Bible who has to decide which child to let the emperor kill. That is how precious both relationships are to the MM. You are not a dishonest person because you lie in a situation like that.

[JustJoe]

Thanks, Jen. I wasn't trying to single you out. I was just really interested in your interpretation of your relationship. While I CAN understand his supposed motives, I still think he is being less than honest with himself, about them. JMHO