So what exactly is degrading about porn?

[JackJack]

I have watched my share over my life. I do believe IMO it has gotten worse over the years as far as the treatment. I also read and believe there are even more horrible things that go on, when the camera isn't rolling. BUt most ppl do not care about that, its what is in front of the camera that they are concerned with. I think the most degrading things more than likely happen off camera, the part most of us do not see, and a good part of those who love it do not want to see or know about. Goodness forbid there is a not so good side to something ppl love. So for those ppl, men and women who chose to leave the industry, good for them. It took far more strength and courage to get out if it probably than it did to get in to it.

[Jersey Shortie]

Lets just call it like it is. It's A-OKAY to degrade women. This is basically what we are saying by saying something like porn is okay.

 

And lets not forget that women naturally love every minute of it. Because after all, women love everything a man wants to do to her sexually. Why wouldn't we? We are just the little women and men are the big strong in control men. If a man wants to smack you in the face with his dick! A woman should love it! If he wants to call you four letter names! That's great! If he wants to have anal then put it in your mouth, well that's only "natural" because he's a man.

 

These women choose to be in porn so naturally, it's okay to represent women in degrading and dehumanizing terms. Never mind that more men CHOOSE to watch porn then real women who CHOOSE to be in it. Never mind that in the majority of cases where women choose to do porn, they aren't exactly coming from great positions in life. But many men who are doctors, lawyers, pre-school teachers..fathers, husbands, boyfriends that enjoy porn, they LIKE seeing women dehumanzied on some level. You can call me all the names in the book but that's the basic message. It's okay to degrade women for male sexual pleasure. It's the ugly truth that no one wants to be honest about. And if you are honest about it and say "Yeah, that's right, I am a guy and I don't mind seeing women used for sex.." there is some twisted logic that that makes you more of a *man* or that it's okay because after all, what a man *needs* (that word is subjective) certainly should out weight how any woman is treated. And if that bothers you as a woman, seeing other women treated and represented that way, why you are just a prude. Never mind that it's not men being so dehumanized by a billiong dollar industry that exploits them and showcases them as the lowerclass citizen in the protrayl. Because lets be honest, in most porn movies the woman is the second class citizen. And that's okay right guys? Because your desire to get off is FAR FAR more important then how you choose to treat women in real life or behind closed doors when no one is looking.

 

Two truths about women from porn:

 

Women are just objects who are only as good as their bj skills and breasts size.

Men are masters of every situation.

 

This is in a nutshell, the world of porn. I refuse to believe that most men don't see and understand how misgonistic pornography can be often times. Especially more so today. Just two decades ago kids knew less about sex. Now 12 year olds know about anal. Don't tell me that's normal or healthy or give some bs answer about how if parents were doign their job everything would be gravey.

 

Daddy shouldn't expect his little girl to be respected if he can't rsepect women himself. That's what's really sad here. Men don't want to give women in general respect but they want women i ntheir own families respected. Well it doesn't work that way. So next time you are jerking off to some other woman, don't ever forget that there will be a man jerking off to your daughter or wife and just might be calling her names in his head and thinking about smacking her around.

 

Again, this is the ugly truth that too many men don't want to be honest about.

 

But keep looking at porn. Women are nothing after all and we deserve to be treated like we are just a couple of holes right guys?

 

If there was an industry where men were treated equal to how women are treated in porn, this would be a very different conversation. And the OP would be the first to stand up for men being belittled and demeaned.

Edited May 17, 2010 by Jersey Shortie

[ADF]

If there was an industry where men were treated equal to how women are treated in porn, this would be a very different conversation. And the OP would be the first to stand up for men being belittled and demeaned.

But there is an industry where men are treated like women in porn--the gay porn industry. If this is all about men dominating and abusing women, why does the gay porn industry exist at all?

[Ross PK]

I don't see anything wrong with it as there's nothing wrong with sex, or a women concenting to being in a porno knowing full well that men are going to wank over it. They're probably getting a hell of a lot of money too.

[Engadget]

People acting like all porn has men slapping women around and things like that is crazy. I've seen so few porn movies like that they're almost non existent.

[Jersey Shortie]

I don't see anything wrong with it as there's nothing wrong with sex, or a women concenting to being in a porno knowing full well that men are going to wank over it. They're probably getting a hell of a lot of money too.

 

A) Who said there was anything wrong with sex? And what does that have to do with porn?

B) What does a man's ability to wank to a porn have to do with anything?

C) What does the payment of these women to be porn have to do with how porn depicts women and sexuality in general and the men that are husbands, fathers and boyfriends aiding the industry?

 

There is a huge difference between sex and porn. I think we can all agree that porn is driven and produced for other reasons then to be a benevolent creater in satisfying many lonely men's sexual needs. Lets not kid ourselves.

 

It's a money-making industry primary driven on what will sell by a select few in the hotspots to make the movies. And what sells is showing more graphic images to draw the same phyiscal and emotional response men have to porn. And if you don't think men aren't having some kind of emotional response to porn, you are fooling yourself.

 

But there is an industry where men are treated like women in porn--the gay porn industry. If this is all about men dominating and abusing women, why does the gay porn industry exist at all?

 

Simply, you are just deflecting to avoid talking about the subject at hand and have an honest dialoge about what happens in the industry towards women.

 

I know nothing about gay porn but I do know that since most of the population is heterosexual, that most of the porn is heterosexual. But pray continue talking about gay porn even though that's not even what most of the men on this board are viewing and certainly not what most women have to deal with. Please continue to take a very small subset of porn to avoid talkign about how women are treated.

 

Don't know anything about gay porn but what I do know is this. If gay men are being misrespresented or treated poorly in the business, and I have no doubt they do too, then since they are gay, it is still at the hands of men again. Why do men like to see others demeaned for their personal satisifaction? Is this how real men behave or is there a lack of inner masculinity among men today that make them lean on a degrading industry so they can feel more powerful they they really feel?

 

To be honest, I don't think porn does a service for men and women either way. Porn protrays men as women-hating sex straved/crazed people that view women as nothing but meat aand treat women poorly. Is that how men want to be seen? Something men should ask themselves next time they are viewing porn. Do they sincerely like the way women are protrayed in porn? Do they sincerely like the way men are protrayed in porn? I think people seperate their sexual pleasure from how they see people protrayed in porn. They like the sexual satisfaction but they know deep down that the way women are being respersented is pretty darn crappy. Conclusion? Male sexual desire trumps treating women like human beings.

[ADF]

Simply, you are just deflecting to avoid talking about the subject at hand and have an honest dialoge about what happens in the industry towards women.

 

I know nothing about gay porn but I do know that since most of the population is heterosexual, that most of the porn is heterosexual. But pray continue talking about gay porn even though that's not even what most of the men on this board are viewing and certainly not what most women have to deal with. Please continue to take a very small subset of porn to avoid talkign about how women are treated.

 

 

No, no, no. I'm sorry, but it is YOU who are deflecting. You won't answer my question about gay porn because you CAN'T, because it doesn't fit into your porn-as-abuse-of-women ideology. And BTW, gay porn is hardly a small subset; gay porn is a huge industry in its own right, its size limited only by the fact the gay male population is significantly smaller than the straight male population.

 

Let's talk about what women go through. 30 years after the birth of the modern womens' rights moement, women still earn less than men for equal work. This country still has no worthwhile family leae policy. We still hae no day care policy. Millions of women lack access to basic health care. 90% of US counties hae no abortion proiders. The list goes on and on.

 

I wish you would see fit to dedicate 1/10th the energy to any of those causes that you currently waste attacking porn. If you did, maybe you'd make an actual difference in the world. It seems like you want to.

[Woggle]

People acting like all porn has men slapping women around and things like that is crazy. I've seen so few porn movies like that they're almost non existent.

 

Tell me about it. They remind me of the anti-drug people who can't tell the difference between weed and heroin or crack. There is no reasoning with them.

[Ross PK]

JS, I'm explaining what porn is about, and that if there's nothing wrong with sex, why should a video camera make any difference? And that it's for these reasons why I don't find it degrading.

 

The only reason why you think it's degrading is because that is the way YOU see it.

 

Just chill and stop being so damned uptight, you sound like a columnist for the Daily Mail or something.

Edited May 17, 2010 by Ross PK

[JackJack]

Tell me about it. They remind me of the anti-drug people who can't tell the difference between weed and heroin or crack. There is no reasoning with them.

 

I would imagine it works both ways. The same you described can be applied for those who love it as well. Especially the last part.

[Kentucky Jelly]

Rusty Trombones are pretty degrading

[LucreziaBorgia]

I watched some pretty good porn tonight during a self love session. The stuff I was watching had women tied down, legs spread as wide as they could go, and really vigorous stimulation of the gspot paired with really powerful vibrator grinding on the clit. These women come so hard, its amazing. I imagine myself in a similar situation - there is never a time where I'll find myself IRL in a bondage situation like that and I enjoy the vicarious experience of things that clearly would never happen in real life.

 

So, what is wrong with a man doing the same? He will likely rarely find himself in the same 'anything goes' situations that are emulated in porn, and I suspect that men do much the same that I do - they imagine themselves in the place of the actor having those things done to him, and doing those things to a 'dirty' woman (speaking as the archetype). I don't think men get off on "degrading women". Some might like the portrayal of vulnerability or submissiveness, but outright degrading as it is being implied here? Maybe degrading in one sense, but it is not the same sort of degrading that I see talked about here. They get off on the portrayal of fantasy sex. The idea of a woman catering sexually and entirely to a man is a common fantasy. It is a fantasy, you know - not a documentary on "degrading women."

 

I would think that if a man liked and got off on "degrading women" he would watch rape snuff or something violent like that. Not something like a woman giving a blow job.

 

Since when is a woman giving a blow job degrading, anyhow? When I give my man one, I'm not seeing it as a degrading act. I'm seeing it as a way that I can make him feel good and turn him on. Now, I have to exclude something like the face smashing you see from Max Hardcore, for example but those girls are masochists for the most part, and part of their sexual 'getting off' includes being humiliated.

 

What would you say to a girl who enjoys being humiliated and degraded, and in fact sexually gets off on that?

 

If a man sees a woman giving a beej in a porn, why is that degrading but if his girlfriend/wife is giving him one it isn't?

Edited May 18, 2010 by LucreziaBorgia

[EnigmasMuse]

Maybe all all the ones who love porn and feels its not degrading should get together in a post and discuss why they love it so much and compare movies etc. Leave the ones who don't like it, out of it. When you bring the ones into it and ask questions to the ones who don't like it, it gets ridiculas and same for them when they drag the porn lovers into a question etc. I dunno.

[turnstone]

Because a significant portion of it portrays women as objects men use to get off.

 

That's also my opinion. Objectification is the most commonly used reason to limit porn that I've heard.

 

I'm a little concerned by the idea that many of you seem to have that all women in porn are A ok with it all, they haven't been abused, they are doing it by choice, that they earn huge amounts of money etc. etc. etc. And that's all true for a large percentage. However, there are also considerable numbers of women, many of whom are underage, who are being abused in some fashion or other by the porn industry.

 

Porn actresses have to start somewhere and it tends to be at the bottom of the pile, prostitution taking up a large part of that. And the vast majority of those women will, if they don't reach the top, end up back there, often with a drug addiction that only the sleaziest John or porn director will overlook - track marks aren't easily disguised if your job entails you being naked.

[carhill]

So, what about you? What do you find degrading about regular old porn? We know you find it degrading, so what specifically do you find degrading about it?

 

Since I've seen the gamut, being in the newsgroups for over a decade, I'd say the two most striking dynamics which cause me to move on are those vids where the woman is literally gagging on a penis and it's presented in a purposeful and forceful manner, as well as the Asian rape stuff. The uncensored binaries can be pretty shocking. I personally despise the manner in which the participants appear to be 'used'. Acting or not, there doesn't appear to be much enjoyment going on.

 

The clear 'winners' IMO are the amateur couples stuff, especially from the UK. They make some good homegrown porn in the UK. It reminds me of some past experiences overseas where I enjoyed similar pleasures. Real lovemaking.

[blair08]

Porn lovers will always punch holes in the anti-porn lovers opinions, just like the anti-porn lovers will do the same to the ones who love it. Its like a no win situation.

 

Probably the best way to find out whats degrading about it, is to actually ask a porn star who has been in the industry and gotten out of it. There were suggestions on how to do that here and in another thread.

[Jersey Shortie]

No, no, no. I'm sorry, but it is YOU who are deflecting. You won't answer my question about gay porn because you CAN'T, because it doesn't fit into your porn-as-abuse-of-women ideology.

 

You're the one that deflected by non-directly saying.."but, but but what about gay porn!". You avoided any previous comments made about the topic to try a pick-up a dark-horse and diverate the conversation. And you darn well know it. You continue to do it throughout your psot because you are more ready to talk about gay porn, then you are about hetero. Why is that? Most of us here are hetero. Most of relate to the opposite sex romantically. So it makes no sense to me why you want to diverate the conversation with brining up gay porn when most men here, yourself included, view hetero porn or lipstick lesbians.

 

I answered your question just fine. Just because you don't want to address the answer or don't like it, doesn't mean it wasn't answered. Here it is again since you had such a hard time finding it before. Pay close attention to bolded, underlined and italic comments.

 

JERSEY SHORTIE:

I know nothing about gay porn but I do know that since most of the population is heterosexual, that most of the porn is heterosexual. But pray continue talking about gay porn even though that's not even what most of the men on this board are viewing and certainly not what most women have to deal with. Please continue to take a very small subset of porn to avoid talkign about how women are treated.

 

Don't know anything about gay porn but what I do know is this. If gay men are being misrespresented or treated poorly in the business, and I have no doubt they do too, then since they are gay, it is still at the hands of men again. Why do men like to see others demeaned for their personal satisifaction? Is this how real men behave or is there a lack of inner masculinity among men today that make them lean on a degrading industry so they can feel more powerful they they really feel?

[/QUOTE]

 

You asked about gay porn. There is your answer. I am not going to let you get away with weasling your way out of that one.

 

Am I an expert in gay porn? Nope. My guess is either are you. Do I date gay men? Nope. My experiences have been with heterosexual men and I see increasing displays of how modern men have let pornography affect them. Both their habits in and out of bed. This is the reality that many don't want to admit.

 

Do men think that porn is a good repsentation of men themselves? Is that how men want to be seen? If you don't like the way men or woman are protrayed in porn but take pleasure from it, there is an strange disconnect there.

 

And BTW, gay porn is hardly a small subset; gay porn is a huge industry in its own right, its size limited only by the fact the gay male population is significantly smaller than the straight male population.

 

Gay porn is a small subset compared to heterosexual porn. I never said gay porn wasn't a money-making industry. Again, most men here aren't viewing gay porn because most men here aren't gay. Pray continue talking about gay porn and avoiding any serious discussion about hetero-porn where most of us relate to a man-woman relationship.

 

This does not mean that I would ever deny that gay porn doesn't have the ability to be degrading to men. this means that this board often about how men and women relate to each other most of the time. You want to talk about an all vegan diet when most of us eat meat, fruits and veggies too.

 

By the way, this is key to your arugment. In your gay porn equation, who is making that porn? Not women! Other men for men! What does this say about men?!!!!!!! It isn't women funding gay porn!

 

Let's talk about what women go through. 30 years after the birth of the modern womens' rights moement, women still earn less than men for equal work. This country still has no worthwhile family leae policy. We still hae no day care policy. Millions of women lack access to basic health care. 90% of US counties hae no abortion proiders. The list goes on and on.

 

I wish you would see fit to dedicate 1/10th the energy to any of those causes that you currently waste attacking porn. If you did, maybe you'd make an actual difference in the world. It seems like you want to.

 

 

Back the train up! Who says I don't contribue to these causes?

Secondly, if *you* dedciated 1/10th your energy to not defending porn, and supportting real women, if you and other men did, I sincerely think men would see a change in their relationships. If *you* dedcicated 1/10th of your engery to helping women gain in these areas you felt the need to mention, instead of aruging like porn, because lets not pretend you don't love the topic ADF, then maybe *you* could make a real difference in the world.

 

Lets take a page out of your book. Diversion. Diversion. Diversion. This is an entirely different topic that has nothing to do with the subject at hand. You continue to ignore what you don't want to hear. I suspect that sadly, this is what most men do because they don't want to see the ugly truth in their porn habits. There is the funniest dichotomy that some men get bent out of shape when pointing out the ways an industry that men LOVE disrespects women but how dare a woman question how a man feels about women in general when he doesn't mind seeing a woman called sexually negative names and dicked smacked around or "gagged". These are sexual acts we ALL know about and are not any strangers to in the digital age. What does that tell you about society's opinion of women? Coupled with the other items you mentioned where women stil lstruggle?

 

Women are just objects and men are masters of their domain right?

[Jersey Shortie]

JS, I'm explaining what porn is about, and that if there's nothing wrong with sex, why should a video camera make any difference? And that it's for these reasons why I don't find it degrading.

 

The only reason why you think it's degrading is because that is the way YOU see it.

 

Just chill and stop being so damned uptight, you sound like a columnist for the Daily Mail or something.

 

Not sure what the Daily Mail is but honored to be told I sound like a columnist!

 

 

Many people see it as degrading. Infact, many men see it as degrading even while they enjoy viewing it because I don't think here is a man alive that has hopes that his daughter goes into the porn business.

 

And no one denied that porn is about sex! However, to suggest that's all it's about is navie! It's an industry that is there to make money first! Not sex. Not provide countless hours of sexual pleasure out of the goodness of its heart as you roughly seem to think. There is a small subset of people making and marketing and industry that's meant to produce the highest emotional and physical reaction it can from those watching it so that people keep coming back for more. This means that it has to go beyond and above what is considered "normal". Throw in the digital age where everyone has a computer in their home and everyone can type in "doggy-style" and see ten million pictures of people getting it on, and that because of the digital age, images have progressed to be more aggressively pronounced. Porn isn't *just* about sex and being such a benevolent industry to provide all the fantastic lonely men with a way to fill a void in their life. It's an industry based on making money by human beings off human weakness. Both by those who get into the industry and those that view it. Porn plays off human weakness. Not human strength. I think most men do understand this even if they don’t want to verbally admit it. It’s also an industry that sets up fantasy ideals of women that men totally buy into! There are studies that say that after a man has viewed porn, he is more critical of his own partner.

[Nikki Sahagin]

I'd like to add, to the posters who said most porn is pretty vanilla....there is an ABUNDANCE of WEIRD porn on the internet. You'll find a lot of porn involving violence, abuse, women being spat at, beaten, women crying, smacked and also an alarming amount of porn involving animals....in school people passed around links of a girl and a horse, a chinese girl and some weird fish and a girl with an octopus in her a**. There might be vanilla porn but an increasing amount of porn is becoming dangerous, immoral and almost circus freakish. There is a link between regular use of porn and needing to watch more shocking videos to get off. I'd like to add....that porn DOES effect SOME men and their sex life's. My last ex (the rebound ex) and i'm sorry to share this...without asking tried to give me a*** sex out of nowhere as though this was just taken for granted and in the middle of sex hit me hard around the face (again...just assuming he was allowed to) Of course this isn't all men, i'm not even saying its necessarily 10%, I don't know statistics...all I know is, it DOES effect SOME mens view of women and sex and their moral code.

[Jersey Shortie]

I suspect that men do much the same that I do - they imagine themselves in the place of the actor having those things done to him, and doing those things to a 'dirty' woman (speaking as the archetype).

 

I suspect many men do imagine themselves in the actor's spot or being with certain women they see in porn. That is why porn says alot about how men think and feel about women. And you can not ignore the negative connatations of women and their sexuality. Even through porn where women are called sexually negative names for enjoying sex. If there was an industry that women created that enjoyed calling men names that women got off too, you would be the first to speak up agaisnt it. You are less tolerant of the degradation of men then you are of the degradation of women.

 

 

I don't think men get off on "degrading women". Some might like the portrayal of vulnerability or submissiveness, but outright degrading as it is being implied here? Maybe degrading in one sense, but it is not the same sort of degrading that I see talked about here. They get off on the portrayal of fantasy sex. The idea of a woman catering sexually and entirely to a man is a common fantasy. It is a fantasy, you know - not a documentary on "degrading women."

 

Again, fantasy says alot about what we feel deep down. What does it say about the general population of men that they like to see women degraded in varrying degress in an industry catered to and created for men?

 

I would think that if a man liked and got off on "degrading women" he would watch rape snuff or something violent like that. Not something like a woman giving a blow job.

 

There is no doubt in anyone's minde that rape porn is degrading. But alot of porn is quite violent. You don't have to kill the girl for it to be degrading. Unless your threshold is that low. Even most men I think would agree that alot of porn out there is quite degrading to women.

 

 

Since when is a woman giving a blow job degrading, anyhow?

 

Please show us where anyone said that a woman giving a man a blow job was degrading?

 

You can not deny that ALOT of porn displays women as the orfice that just happens to be there for the big strong powerful male to push himself into.

 

 

When I give my man one, I'm not seeing it as a degrading act.

 

Irevelent to the discussion of porn! Personal relationships and sexual acts given in personal relationships have nothing to do with porn. I like giving bjs but I won't lie to myself and not say that the way it's often displayed in porn is quite degrading to the woman. Especially with the popularity of making women gag. Something no one is too shocked to here about and I would bet my house many people have seen and MANY men LIKE to see a woman at that level of discomfort for male pleasure.

 

 

What would you say to a girl who enjoys being humiliated and degraded, and in fact sexually gets off on that?

 

There are pyschological issues there. Does this make the girl bad? no. But people that enjoy being humilated sexually are responding to something on a physchological level because it's a mental game for them.

 

If a man sees a woman giving a beej in a porn, why is that degrading but if his girlfriend/wife is giving him one it isn't?

 

Come on. I can't even respond to this question because it makes no sense.

[Jersey Shortie]

There might be vanilla porn but an increasing amount of porn is becoming dangerous, immoral and almost circus freakish. There is a link between regular use of porn and needing to watch more shocking videos to get off. I'd like to add....that porn DOES effect SOME men and their sex life's. My last ex (the rebound ex) and i'm sorry to share this...without asking tried to give me a*** sex out of nowhere as though this was just taken for granted and in the middle of sex hit me hard around the face (again...just assuming he was allowed to) Of course this isn't all men, i'm not even saying its necessarily 10%, I don't know statistics...all I know is, it DOES effect SOME mens view of women and sex and their moral code.

 

Don't you know Nikki? All the men here just view vanila sex that is 100% respectful of woman-kind. Nevermind that hardcore graphic degrading porn has been and still is on the raise with the boom of the internet. Oh but that's right, as a woman we shouldn't care because all that matters is a man has masturbating material and so what if it degrades women? He truly respects women deep , deep down when everyone is looking! It's behind closed doors that he can treat a woman anyway he sees fit. After all, we are just a couple of holes with boobs. And how dare we get upset at that projection. Even while alot of men on this board becry "gold diggers " and not wanting to be seen only as a "walking wallet".

[grogster]

My wife and I use porn as a visual sex toy. We have visual foreplay for a few minutes while arousing one other, and then proceed to have great sex. The only thing that's "degraded" is sexual and emotional apathy.

 

One person's cold degrading rendition is another couple's hot foreplay.

[Jersey Shortie]

Yes, I know couples have *hot* sex because of porn. Still, I rather have *hot* sex because of me and my partner. Not because of what he was titliated by on screen.

[LucreziaBorgia]

Come on. I can't even respond to this question because it makes no sense.

 

It was something I saw earlier in the thread that someone else said about bj's being degrading. I tend to scatter direct sometimes.

[Jersey Shortie]

Well I don't find bjs degrading and enjoy giving them. I do think they are degrading in porn more times then not. What goes on in our personal relationships isn't the same as what goes on in a porn video even if we engage in the same sexual acts displayed in the movie.