Trying to get closer to a recently-befriended female friend

[DarkMagus15]

I'll keep this brief -- but also informative, at the same time!

 

So, the two of us are college art students, and we only have one drawing class together. Fortunately, there are more females in that class than there are males altogether (then again, the class size isn't that big). So, because there aren't many guys in there, I get fully confident to speak to a girl who sits next to me. And I find her attractive features to be *just* right: not too good-looking for me to possibly date (I myself am handsome, but I'm not as "hot" as the "popular" kids are), but definitely not hideous-looking either, at all. Well, I like talking with her in that class, even if we haven't spoken that much (let's face it: I only interact with her in that class, and we get class together only for a few days a week, because of how the schedules were planned out), and since our class began on April.

 

The problem is I just don't know how to get a hold of her; she leaves campus right after our class is over. I like her, and she always likes to smile and look at me when I'm not even looking at her. She and the rest of my class laugh at some funny dry humor responses I make (those that are appropriate enough for the audience), so that's a bonus! I just don't know how to finally be able to communicate with her after Spring Quarter is over; it ends this June. How long should I wait before asking for her e-mail/phone number/etc.? I just don't want to come off as desperate..

 

Thanks.

[WTRanger]

Simple, leave class right as she is. As you are leaving, ask her if she'd like to grab a cup of coffee (or something like that) right then and there. If she doesn't accept and doesn't attempt to act on it like "not now I have class in 15 minutes, but how about later?" then don't bother, she isn't interested.

 

Yes because we all know that if a woman can't skip class or something important to get a cup of coffee with us, it means she's not interested. The advice was solid up to that point, then it became ridiculous.

 

If she says she's busy, set another time up. If she ducks every other time, or cannot commit and isn't willing to give you her contact info so you can set something up, then she's not interested.

 

But be careful, coffee can equal friends. Coffee is safe, non-threatening. If you really want to man up, ask her to dinner.

[ADF]

Juts ask her to hae coffee after class. Een if she can't that day, your offer will be out there and you can reschedule. But do it soon. Remember, most attractie women are being targeted by mulitple guys at the same time. You don't hae to be desperate, but ask soon because if you wait too long, some other guy will step in.

[DarkMagus15]

I'll consider trying that out tomorrow, by asking if she wants to have coffee sometime. She doesn't hang around campus at all so I'm not sure how I'm going to ask her.

Edited May 17, 2010 by DarkMagus15

[ADF]

But be careful, coffee can equal friends. Coffee is safe, non-threatening. If you really want to man up, ask her to dinner.

 

I respectfully disagree with this. Sort of. I suppose if the woman were young and unsophisticated enough, she might interpret a request to for coffee as a friendly gesture. But of she is at all experienced or worldy, she knows men almost neer go out of their way to spend time with women unless they are attracted to the. Almost neer.

[DarkMagus15]

I haven't really asked her out for coffee (yet), so today and yesterday, we just had quick conversations about our lives (college majors, age, favorite restaurants, etc.) on our way out of class. I just want to get a little closer to her so I can feel a little less stupid about asking her to spend time somewhere together.

[WTRanger]

Everything you just said equals one thing. That you are too scared to ask her out. You are afraid of rejection. You are making pointless excuses. You know her well enough to ask her already.

 

Don't come crying on this same post in a month when class is over and you haven't asked her out yet. She's not a mind reader, so just ask already! What in God's name are you waiting for? Every day you wait to get a little closer, is every day lost that you could be taking her out. That's one less day to attempt this, that's one less day in the class and one less day in the quarter.

 

If she says no, it's not the end of the world you know. So stop acting like this is the biggest thing mankind has done since we first discovered fire.

[DarkMagus15]

I asked her if she wanted to "hang out" with me some time, and thus I got her number. After this weekend, she'll be available. Now I just gotta play it cool by building up the relationship status steadily; I want to prove to her that she definitely made the right choice by allowing me to accompany her.

 

What would be an ideal place for a first "hang out"? Second? Third? And so on...?

[phineas]

/facepalm.

[WTRanger]

I asked her if she wanted to "hang out" with me some time, and thus I got her number. After this weekend, she'll be available. Now I just gotta play it cool by building up the relationship status steadily; I want to prove to her that she definitely made the right choice by allowing me to accompany her.

 

What would be an ideal place for a first "hang out"? Second? Third? And so on...?

 

Welcome to the Friendzone. Population, you.

 

Have you not been reading any of the advice the fine folks on LS have been giving you?

[carhill]

Ask her specifically to one of those 'favorite restaurants' on a specific evening (not a weekend). If this ship has already sailed (apparently it has), use this advice with another lady in the class. You're 'handsome' you say. Make use of it. Good luck

[Els]

You know, I really don't think the girl has been to LS and knows what 'hang out' is apparently supposed to mean. Geez. It's not a necessary death-knoll!

[WTRanger]

You know, I really don't think the girl has been to LS and knows what 'hang out' is apparently supposed to mean. Geez. It's not a necessary death-knoll!

 

Yes, asking a girl to "hang out" is indeed a nail in the coffin of relationships. Hang out = friends time. I hang out with my friends, I don't hang out with people I wish to date.

 

I'm sure some women on here will agree that women still appreciate it when a guy asks her out on a date. They like when men take the initiative. Be a man and ask her out.

 

Asking to hang out is a sure sign of a wishy-washy man who has fear, and cannot commit to anything. Asking someone to date, shows that you are ambitious, and you aren't afraid of hearing a "No thanks" once in a while.

 

Look at the OP's posts. They are full of hesitation and non-committal. Hang out sometime. Well, when? When is this sometime going to happen?

[DarkMagus15]

Excuse me, but can't some of you be a little more forgiving and less harsh on the tone of your posts? I'm desperately trying to get a girlfriend, I'm just a bit skeptical about asking girls out so early into the relationship. The negativity of some posters here are not helping boost my confidence in any way. I'll admit it was a bad move to ask about "hanging out" though.

[WTRanger]

Excuse me, but can't some of you be a little more forgiving and less harsh on the tone of your posts? I'm desperately trying to get a girlfriend, I'm just a bit skeptical about asking girls out so early into the relationship. The negativity of some posters here are not helping boost my confidence in any way. I'll admit it was a bad move to ask about "hanging out" though.

 

Nope. The only way to get you to break out of your shell is to beat it into your scared mind that rejection is just a part of seeking a girlfriend. Stop fearing it. You have got to be a man and stop being a boy at some point in your life.

 

And the women can spot your desperation from a mile away, that's not going to help you either. How in the hell do you think most relationships are formed? The very first thing that is asked is her out on a date. That way, the first date isn't this monumental occasion. It's just a first date. If it goes well, great. If it tanks, move on to the next one.

 

Only after you've faced rejection and being stood up will you begin to see that it's just part of the dating game.

 

And you can call me out by name. Jesus, be a man about it already. I could give a rats ass. I'm not being a dick just to be a dick. I see the same timid boy in you that was me a year back. It took several rejections for me to finally see that I'll live. The only thing I can do is ask. I can't make her say yes. I can only control me, so that's the only person I have to worry about. You can't prove jack sh@t to these girls. The only person you need to prove something to is yourself. Have confidence in yourself, and the women will pick up on that.

 

After a few bad dates, stand ups, rejections, I've found someone amazing. I would have never found her had I kept pining after the first one who said, "No." Or if I would have spent months planning to ask one girl out.

[ScaredHubby]

WTRanger is right. If you don't pony up and show some confidence, you've just made yourself a new friend. I know from experience that if you start out with a friendship, which I once thought was a great idea, that's what you'll likely always have.

 

She needs to know from the outset that you want to be more than just friends, or you're going to enjoy the pain of watching her date other guys and complain to you about it. Trust me.

[DarkMagus15]

WTRanger is right. If you don't pony up and show some confidence, you've just made yourself a new friend. I know from experience that if you start out with a friendship, which I once thought was a great idea, that's what you'll likely always have.

 

She needs to know from the outset that you want to be more than just friends, or you're going to enjoy the pain of watching her date other guys and complain to you about it. Trust me.

OK, I'm sorry about that previous post I made; I know I have to step up on my game.

 

Also. Since it's the weekend is it fine if I ask her out on the phone before seeing her on Monday? I just want to assure her ASAP that I intend on being *more* than just a "friend."

Edited May 22, 2010 by DarkMagus15

[Els]

Yes, asking a girl to "hang out" is indeed a nail in the coffin of relationships. Hang out = friends time. I hang out with my friends, I don't hang out with people I wish to date.

 

*shrugs* I've known plenty of high school relationships that started when the guy asked the girl 'Hey, you wanna hang out after class today?'. Frankly I doubt most girls, especially if they're young and aren't all wrapped up in the 'rules', would discount a guy as a romantic possibility just because he used the word 'hang out'.

 

Look at the OP's posts. They are full of hesitation and non-committal. Hang out sometime. Well, when? When is this sometime going to happen?

This is true. Setting a time and place is always good. Edited May 22, 2010 by Elswyth

[rewe4reel]

Excuse me, but can't some of you be a little more forgiving and less harsh on the tone of your posts?

 

It's called "tough love."

 

 

 

I'm desperately trying to get a girlfriend,

 

No no no no no no no no awww hell no.

 

You can NEVER be "desperate" to "get a girlfriend" and have this sort of thing work out right. Esp. if you're not really all that interested in THIS girl, which it doesn't seem you really are, other than as an "easy target" to "get a girlfriend." The way you described her makes it seem as if you don't even find her all that attractive; you're just not confident enough to go and get someone who really floats your boat.

 

But in any event--desperation never works. Ever. Women can smell desperation on a guy like you from ten miles away.

 

You are tripping over yourself because you are simultaneously desperate and fearful, all signs of lack of experience.

 

Don't worry, we all started there too.

 

What you should actually be aiming for is simply trying to get comfortable interacting with women in various contexts so that you get used to it and not feel so self conscious. This can include chatting, coffee, hanging out, dates, whatever.

 

I don't think asking this chick out on a date will make any difference. You are so nervous you will probably blow the date. How can you think of her as a potential girlfriend when you don't even have the moxie to ask her out on a date????

 

Whatever you do with these women--and I'm using the plural because your biggest mistake here is focusing everything on one woman, which you should not do--your objective should be to have FUN. If you have fun, they will have fun. If the woman has fun when she is with you, she'll want to spend more time with you, and it might progress to "girlfriend." Even if it doesn't, you had FUN.

 

You NEED to play the NUMBERS game. FORCE youself to do it. Talk to numerous girls at every opportunity. Just to do it.

 

So getting back to this particular girl--coffee, hangout, dinner, it doesn't really matter; you're not "ready" for it, by a longshot. You're not "ready" for a "girlfriend."

 

If you're having trouble conversing with her, then why not go with what is obvious? This is an ART class right? So you both have a SHARED INTEREST in ART (I assume you didn't join the class simply to pick up girls. Right? Right??? Well even if you did, SHE doesn't know that!)

 

So strike up a conversation with her, immediately after class, about ART. Ask her what she likes artistically. What is she working on? Then let your mutual natural interest in art dictate the flow of the conversation. If the conversation is FUN and INTERESTING then she will want to CONTINUE interacting with you. THAT's when you say "HEY LET'S GO GET COFFEE" and you keep talking about ART to the extent that SHE seems interested and animated in it. If the conversation wants to flow in another direction then LET IT.

 

Assuming you get that far, you can formulate an "ART DATE" with her. Go to some exhibit or museum she's interested in, or that YOU are interested in. IT WILL GIVE YOU SOMETHING TO DO ON THE DATE other than just say "Waaahhhh I'm so lonely pwease pwease be my girlfriend!!!" THEN YOU can get something to eat with her (be prepared/offer to pay obviously) and it will "naturally flow" from what you were doing.

 

If she has an interest in you she will allow this all to occur and it will be non-threatening because you are actually not putting any "pressure" on her at all.

 

Now this is just an EXAMPLE. It's one of many different strategies and it might not work for you. BUT IT'S BETTER THAN "I am desperate for a girlfriend."

 

Remember my friend, women like to be pursued, but until the "moment of truth" actually arrives (I.e. kissing or something like that) they like to "pretend" that they don't know what's happening, even though they allow it and frequently manipulate events to orchestrate it.

 

That's why women will always say things like "well I was out with this guy and we had something to drink and all of a sudden we were making out. IT JUST HAPPENED." No it didn't "just happen." It NEVER "just happens."

 

But unless you are extremely confident and have great game--which clearly you do NOT--making a ballsy "direct approach" or "cold approach" of just asking her out to dinner can result in a lot of "fail", simply because you will get resistance. She will know you are a desperate bluffer, not an experienced player, and will shoot you down just for the fun of shooting you down.

 

I think a guy in your particular situation, with where your head is at, needs to be a little more subtle.

 

YMMV.

 

 

 

 

I'm just a bit skeptical about asking girls out so early into the relationship. The negativity of some posters here are not helping boost my confidence in any way. I'll admit it was a bad move to ask about "hanging out" though.

[rewe4reel]

 

 

 

After a few bad dates, stand ups, rejections, I've found someone amazing. I would have never found her had I kept pining after the first one who said, "No." Or if I would have spent months planning to ask one girl out.

 

 

This is absolutely CRITICAL for you to undersand darkmagus and if no other advice penetrates THIS IS ABSOLUATELY THE MOST IMPORTANT ADVICE YOU WILL EVER EVER RECEIVE ABOUT THE "DATING GAME" (at least getting to and past the "first date"): It's ALL a numbers game.

 

No matter how desperate, inept, insecure, bumbling, etc. you feel, you HAVE to put yourself out there with as many different potential dating "targets" as you can.

 

Unless you look like Quasi Modo if you ask as many as ten different girls out, even pretty much randomly and with no "game" at all, you will get at least ONE date out of it. And likely more than one of the girls will show an interest just because you had the ballz to "go for it."

 

If you make a pact with yourself to ask 25 different girls out on dates as quickly as possible, or until you establish a relationship with one of them so that you don't have to keep pursuing new ones, you will probably find yourself that "girlfriend" rather quickly (now finding is different from keeping, but first work on finding one!). You will never reach girl No. 25 because you will end up "clicking" with one of them long before you get to No. 25.

 

DO NOT FOCUS/OBSESS over a particular girl that YOU HAVE NOT EVEN gone out on ONE date with, that's just a "fantasy."

 

And--this even works with ATTRACTIVE girls.

 

When girls turn down guys for dates, assuming there's any basic attraction (if there isn't you don't want to waste your time/money dating them anyway, why buy a girl a free dinner if she's not at all interested in you?), it can be for numerous reasons which have nothing to do with you, and therefore which you can do nothing about. There's no way you can know what these reasons are (she's on her period and has cramps the day you ask her out; she has a boyfriend, wants to cheat, but feels "guilty" about it; she's bi-polar/psycho; she had a cheeseburger with onions for lunch and is embarrased to talk to you; she has a daddy complex and wants to screw the art professor; and so forth).

 

An attractive girl is going to have a lot of options so you have to put yourself out there to a lot of different women and just hope the timing is right.

 

For example I happened to meet my wife pretty much at random in grad school and pretty impulsively asked her out without knowing her at all. (Actually I had met her the day before at a school function, spoke very briefly to her, and basically ran into her on the street on campus the next day, so I recognized her, and she--vaguely--recognized me.) (Uncharacteristic for me, I was always pretty timid with this stuff.) She had some hesitation with going out with me but she overcame it and obviously things worked out from there. However she later told me she had recently got out of her prior relationship and therefore just happened to be "available" when I asked her out.

 

Had instead she still been in that prior relationship, or had she already started dating a new guy, NOTHING I could have said or done, most likely, would have caused her to go out with me. Also, when I asked her "out", I actually asked her to dinner and a movie RIGHT THEN AND THERE. Because I had the afternoon/evening free. And again it just so happened that she had nothing pressing to do right then either. BUT IT NEVER WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF I HADN'T BUCKED UP MY COURAGE AND SIMPLY ASKED HER.

 

Think about it--most attractive women will go from one relationship to the next pretty easily, and there won't be a whole lot of time they spend "out" of a relationship unless they want to be out of one. They have plenty of guys hitting on them and asking them out.

 

For all you know this girl in your art class might actually like you but she might just not be "available" right now.

 

PULL THE TRIGGER. TAKE THE SHOT!!! TAKE THE SHOT!!!

[somedude81]

*shrugs* I've known plenty of high school relationships that started when the guy asked the girl 'Hey, you wanna hang out after class today?'. Frankly I doubt most girls, especially if they're young and aren't all wrapped up in the 'rules', would discount a guy as a romantic possibility just because he used the word 'hang out'.

 

This is true. Setting a time and place is always good.

With the ammount of difficulty required in attracting a girl, the guy has to try very hard to make sure he doesn't say or do the wrong things. I'm not saying it's guaranteed but as soon as he said "hang-out" she could have changed the way she thought of him to as a friend. And once she has that mind set there is a chance it may never be changed.

 

DarkMagus15, my suggestion to you, is to not just focus on one girl at a time. When you are only after one girl, it causes you to think about her too much and you start to think about what it's like to have her for your girlfriend. When you get rejected by her it really hurts.

 

If you are actively trying to pursue 3 or so girls, you end up not focusing on one girl and don't develop those strong feelings. You also have much better odds of success going for more than girl at a time.

 

I have many years experience of getting friendzoned by girls that I was trying to date. So I know all about what you're going through.

[DarkMagus15]

Elswyth: She is a few years younger than me, and when I asked her that question, she gave me her cellphone number. That should complement your statement on the "hanging out" stuff.

 

rewe4reel: I agree with everything you say. I have several other girls I am interested in, but this one is the only one whom I have communicated face-to-face. I am still trying to figure out a day when I can spend time with another girl. And I'm actually much more attractive-looking than Quasimodo! There are girls who talk to me that often like to check me out when I'm not looking.

 

Perhaps I'm not "ready" to date this particular girl (for now), but I believe we can be potential dating partners the more we spend time together talking about things we like. For example, we both like cartoons/anime and we listen to our MP3 players a lot.

[DarkMagus15]

Good news: I asked her if she wanted to go have lunch when we're done with the Finals, and she agreed to. If we do schedule to have lunch together, where should we go, and how should we pay up (such as each person paying half the total price or paying just for the things we order for ourselves)?

[carhill]

Do you want a study-buddy or do you want to date her? Study-buddy = share; date her = you pay. Good luck

[DarkMagus15]

Thing is, she told me she has a boyfriend (but I didn't ask anyway; she was at some concert watching her boyfriend's band play). BUT: at the same time she seems to really enjoy my company.

 

What do you suggest I do next?