Here I am again or closure?

[pureinheart]

I agree with all this. 100%.

 

Thank you for spelling it all out. This was the post I needed because it said what I knew already.

 

And for the A fog lobby group -Ok it may happen like that. I've thought I was in love when I wasn't. But the real thing is unmistakable. Please give me some credit.

 

Some As are about love, some about issues. And no-one who falls in love is dealing wholly with issues - they are dealing with transformation and a kind of pain if the love is thwarted that is unimaginable for those who have lost a 'fog'.

 

There was no A fog for me, I genuinely loved him, although held back because he was M...kind of like that guy you think is cute, but never say anything...

 

I never felt I had much right to feel the way I did and pushed it underneath the carpet. He communicated little desire to D and should have stayed away from me...I had to totally threaten him so that he would stay away.

 

Then when he does profess undying love, and takes a 180 degree turn...no A fog, just me totally pissed off...lol...very pissed off.

[pureinheart]

It's called a 'fog' for a reason. It clouds your judgment. It keeps you from seeing the truth: that you let your brain's rush of lust chemicals overpower your intelligence and let you believe that your FANTASY could overpower all the objections people would throw at you, because your newfound love was THAT STRONG, and the ONLY true thing you've ever known.QUOTE]

 

Trauma causes bad or clouded judgment...it's not always about lust..

 

Why did you speak curses over WW...I deleted it out of the quote.

[wheelwright]

I think this is part of the problem with your M. You can't let MM go, though if you could you might could recharge your M. But you haven't greived for your xMM yet. You are still hoping he comes back. Until you accept he isn't coming back, or better yet decide you don't want the wishywashy weenie back, you can't grieve. And if you don't grieve, you can't move on. You must let go and grieve.

 

WW I hope for the best for you. Reach for happiness, not pain. And xMM is nothing but pain. He either wants his W, or is too weak to stand up for what he truly wants, in which case do you really want him anyway?

 

CCL

 

Yes!

 

Thanks everyone for responses. I agree with above that it has been stopping me go back to H properly. I needed closure and I am getting it.

 

Some people here didn't notice in the OP that my xMM replied to me by text three weeks ago after 10 months NC:

 

"The love was never in question. I think about you every minute of every day"

 

Hence my recent confusion.

 

Today xMM and his W staged a meeting. I have to walk past their house on the school run. They were both in his car, and got out when I walked by on my way back. They hadn't just driven up. They were waiting for me. They must see me walk by the same time every day.

 

So I shout out 'I want to talk to you - either of you.' They ignore me. So I shout out - 'He said he loved me. You said you'd never loved him' - sorry if folks think that was wrong, but I am beyond that now. Anyway, they staged it, they called this shot in a way.

 

So she comes over and says she never said that she didn't love him. She had always loved him. (She was drunk when she told me this, so perhaps doesn't remember) but I feel a lot better knowing that she loves him. Things make more sense that way.

 

Then she tells me 'I don't care how f***** up you are. P*** off and leave us alone.' (My H had said about me being f***** up in the confrontation last week).

 

I think I can let go now.

 

And Bent - this is not about drama. it is about closure. I am not at all attracted to this sort of thing. I hate it. But this is all necessary for me and my H.

 

And on the up side, I can see weasel in xMM now. And my H seems to be happy to wait until this idea takes a firm enough grip to make me get over xMM. And he is on MY side to the point it makes me want to cry.

 

And thanks everyone for reminding me to think about the kids.

 

And right now, I have so much respect for my H, and so little for xMM that the tide is finally turning in my heart. It really isn't about being second choice. It is about the change of emotion that is absolutely necessary if we are to stay together. And I needed closure for that to happen.

 

It is so much easier to let xMM go knowing his W loves him. It also means I have to feel more guilty about the A.

 

Perhaps in the end this A will turn out to have woken up everyone to see who they really love. My H needed to wake up, his BS also. And through all this suffering, we can evolve.

 

That's not to say I recommend As. It has been a terrible time in my life.

Edited May 18, 2010 by wheelwright
bolding stuff

[califnan]

Thanks for the update Wheel .. I'm glad you received the closure that you were seeking.

[wheelwright]

1. Why would you consider that he secretly loves you when he has had more than ample time to state otherwise?

 

2. You love him. I get that. But love isn't enough sometimes. He has made a choice - and it isn't you.

 

3. You can say his wife holds the reigns, but that doesn't mean it is the truth. It may be what YOU need to believe so that you can go on loving this man. But .... he is with his wife.

 

4. Your H doesn't deserve the disrespect you are showing him. You are basically making him 2nd choice - and does he really realize HOW LITTLE he means to you? Does he know that if the MM said "Hey - let's go" to you, that you would be gone so fast? Is that fair to your H? Would you want him to stay with you out of pity?

 

5. But I have a feeling you are going to be in this same place in 6 months, because you won't let it go, you won't accept his choice and you want to believe it was more than it was. I am not saying he didn't love you; what I am saying is he loves his wife/family -- that life --- more than he loves you. His ACTIONS and his words tell you that. Time for you to believe him.

 

Thanks for the harsh response which contains much truth and much falseness.

 

1. He texted me three weeks ago and said he loves me and thinks about me every minute of every day. Which could have been a lie I guess. At the time it meant something to me. Perhaps it always will. But tbh, I will never know if it was the truth or just intended to make me feel better.

 

At the time it gave me a severe WTF? moment. I couldn't imagine how he could stay in his M this being true. I was proving unable to stay in mine for the same reason.

 

2. Yes. He has made a choice. And finally he has let me know what it is after 10 months NC which was not agreed or discussed. He has only once requested NC - a day after my H confronted him.

 

3. I think this is a very good point.

 

4. This also. But I am fully honest with my H. He is showing great understanding and kindness to me now. I hope the change in my heart I feel as I let go of xMM means I will be able to love him like he deserves.

 

5. Nope. I feel this closure is enabling me to move on. I would not choose to be with xMM now. The closure is making me feel euphoric. I so badly needed it. I have accepted his choice. I feel like I have been delivered the antidote.

Edited May 18, 2010 by wheelwright
adding something

[mitchell]

They may have "staged" your last encounter, but you come across as a pathetic loser in this interchange you have described.

 

You should have held your head up high and just ignored them. Have a little pride.

 

I feel sorry for your husband.

[turnera]

Today xMM and his W staged a meeting. I have to walk past their house on the school run. They were both in his car, and got out when I walked by on my way back. They hadn't just driven up. They were waiting for me. They must see me walk by the same time every day.

 

So I shout out 'I want to talk to you - either of you.' They ignore me. So I shout out - 'He said he loved me. You said you'd never loved him' - sorry if folks think that was wrong, but I am beyond that now. Anyway, they staged it, they called this shot in a way.

I'm glad you can let go now, you need to.

 

But I have to say that this bothers me quite a bit. Why? One, this is something you not only did in public, but you shouted out loud in public. Are you aware of the impact you had on anyone who might have witnessed? I don't ask because I think something will happen, just that it seems like you have a bit of a disconnect on what a more typical or normal adult response would have been. It's just kind of weird.

 

Two, if they were in their car, but they then did nothing - you say they got out, but then you also say they made no attempt to talk to you. But you're assuming...what? I don't know. Do you think they sat there, waited, got out of their car, and just hoped that you would be irritated and instigate an argument? Again, kind of weird.

 

Were they just parked on the side of a road at which place they had no business being? Did they have kids at the school? Did they live there? I'm just trying to understand why their car was on that road, at that time. If there was no logical explanation for their car being there, I can see you getting riled. But if it's a road they ALSO use just like you do, are you sure you weren't just pulled into an event that was NOT staged, but you needed to occur?

 

Just asking, cos I'm confused.

[fooled once]

These people were ar their house ... In their driveway:o

 

staged? I don't think so. For all you know they were making out.

 

What concerns me is their were probably kids around who saw and heard your outburst.

 

 

I'm glad you can let go now, you need to.

 

But I have to say that this bothers me quite a bit. Why? One, this is something you not only did in public, but you shouted out loud in public. Are you aware of the impact you had on anyone who might have witnessed? I don't ask because I think something will happen, just that it seems like you have a bit of a disconnect on what a more typical or normal adult response would have been. It's just kind of weird.

 

Two, if they were in their car, but they then did nothing - you say they got out, but then you also say they made no attempt to talk to you. But you're assuming...what? I don't know. Do you think they sat there, waited, got out of their car, and just hoped that you would be irritated and instigate an argument? Again, kind of weird.

 

Were they just parked on the side of a road at which place they had no business being? Did they have kids at the school? Did they live there? I'm just trying to understand why their car was on that road, at that time. If there was no logical explanation for their car being there, I can see you getting riled. But if it's a road they ALSO use just like you do, are you sure you weren't just pulled into an event that was NOT staged, but you needed to occur?

 

Just asking, cos I'm confused.

[wheelwright]

I'm glad you can let go now, you need to.

 

But I have to say that this bothers me quite a bit. Why? One, this is something you not only did in public, but you shouted out loud in public. Are you aware of the impact you had on anyone who might have witnessed? I don't ask because I think something will happen, just that it seems like you have a bit of a disconnect on what a more typical or normal adult response would have been. It's just kind of weird.

 

Two, if they were in their car, but they then did nothing - you say they got out, but then you also say they made no attempt to talk to you. But you're assuming...what? I don't know. Do you think they sat there, waited, got out of their car, and just hoped that you would be irritated and instigate an argument? Again, kind of weird.

 

Were they just parked on the side of a road at which place they had no business being? Did they have kids at the school? Did they live there? I'm just trying to understand why their car was on that road, at that time. If there was no logical explanation for their car being there, I can see you getting riled. But if it's a road they ALSO use just like you do, are you sure you weren't just pulled into an event that was NOT staged, but you needed to occur?

 

Just asking, cos I'm confused.

 

I think they staged it with the intention of showing me they are together, so that I could let go of any lingering thoughts. Or perhaps to cause me pain. Perhaps both. They live there, that's why the car was there. And I had view of the street and car for several minutes before I reached it, so they hadn't just pulled up. They live en route to the school.

 

I have respected that all the indications for the last year have been that he wanted NC and have not spoken to either of them. When I saw them during this time (which has been about 6 times), I did not try to speak to them and let them ignore me.

 

This would be the adult behaviour you refer to.

 

Today was not adult or not adult. It was necessary for me because I needed the closure it has brought. Because he told me he loved me 3 weeks ago. Because after DDay he said he would explain to me everything but then blanked me in the street instead. Because it was so wierd of them to do this staged thing. Because my state of mind is such that I feel a need for all the truth to be known by all concerned. This may be a selfish need, but then the need to cut me off with no explanation, draw me in again with the love text and then cut me off again without the conversation I needed is more than selfish, it is cruel. Because sometimes there is a need to confront the people who have caused you pain to help you recover from it.

 

As to whether it is wierd of me. I didn't shout in anger, but because they were across the street and they wouldn't have heard otherwise. TBH I think they were the wierd ones for the staging thing.

 

It may not have been me being the 'adult' I have for the last year, but not calling across the street to them would have left me galled and feeling like a coward. Instead I feel healed and euphoric. I have no need for further confrontation. That must be a good thing.

 

I felt no pride in rising above anymore. Things just got beyond that for me. I didn't care about much at that point. I really needed to speak to them and it was worth it. I realise I may have regrets about this later, but it did not come from a place of wierdness. I cannot imagine the regrets will be too deep.

 

Now I can start to care again. Now I can begin to rebuild my life.

[bittersweet memories]

Yes!

 

Thanks everyone for responses. I agree with above that it has been stopping me go back to H properly. I needed closure and I am getting it.

 

Some people here didn't notice in the OP that my xMM replied to me by text three weeks ago after 10 months NC:

 

"The love was never in question. I think about you every minute of every day"

 

Hence my recent confusion.

 

Today xMM and his W staged a meeting. I have to walk past their house on the school run. They were both in his car, and got out when I walked by on my way back. They hadn't just driven up. They were waiting for me. They must see me walk by the same time every day.

 

So I shout out 'I want to talk to you - either of you.' They ignore me. So I shout out - 'He said he loved me. You said you'd never loved him' - sorry if folks think that was wrong, but I am beyond that now. Anyway, they staged it, they called this shot in a way.

 

So she comes over and says she never said that she didn't love him. She had always loved him. (She was drunk when she told me this, so perhaps doesn't remember) but I feel a lot better knowing that she loves him. Things make more sense that way.

 

Then she tells me 'I don't care how f***** up you are. P*** off and leave us alone.' (My H had said about me being f***** up in the confrontation last week).

 

I think I can let go now.

 

And Bent - this is not about drama. it is about closure. I am not at all attracted to this sort of thing. I hate it. But this is all necessary for me and my H.

 

And on the up side, I can see weasel in xMM now. And my H seems to be happy to wait until this idea takes a firm enough grip to make me get over xMM. And he is on MY side to the point it makes me want to cry.

 

And thanks everyone for reminding me to think about the kids.

 

And right now, I have so much respect for my H, and so little for xMM that the tide is finally turning in my heart. It really isn't about being second choice. It is about the change of emotion that is absolutely necessary if we are to stay together. And I needed closure for that to happen.

 

It is so much easier to let xMM go knowing his W loves him. It also means I have to feel more guilty about the A.

 

Perhaps in the end this A will turn out to have woken up everyone to see who they really love. My H needed to wake up, his BS also. And through all this suffering, we can evolve.

 

That's not to say I recommend As. It has been a terrible time in my life.

 

You are coming off as a big time Fatal Attraction.. Leave them alone!! He wants nothing to do with you why the need to look for Drama... Get some help and get a life. I bet he is counting his lucky stars ...

[bittersweet memories]

I think they staged it with the intention of showing me they are together, so that I could let go of any lingering thoughts. Or perhaps to cause me pain. Perhaps both. They live there, that's why the car was there. And I had view of the street and car for several minutes before I reached it, so they hadn't just pulled up. They live en route to the school.

 

I have respected that all the indications for the last year have been that he wanted NC and have not spoken to either of them. When I saw them during this time (which has been about 6 times), I did not try to speak to them and let them ignore me.

 

This would be the adult behaviour you refer to.

 

Today was not adult or not adult. It was necessary for me because I needed the closure it has brought. Because he told me he loved me 3 weeks ago. Because after DDay he said he would explain to me everything but then blanked me in the street instead. Because it was so wierd of them to do this staged thing. Because my state of mind is such that I feel a need for all the truth to be known by all concerned. This may be a selfish need, but then the need to cut me off with no explanation, draw me in again with the love text and then cut me off again without the conversation I needed is more than selfish, it is cruel. Because sometimes there is a need to confront the people who have caused you pain to help you recover from it.

 

As to whether it is wierd of me. I didn't shout in anger, but because they were across the street and they wouldn't have heard otherwise. TBH I think they were the wierd ones for the staging thing.

 

It may not have been me being the 'adult' I have for the last year, but not calling across the street to them would have left me galled and feeling like a coward. Instead I feel healed and euphoric. I have no need for further confrontation. That must be a good thing.

 

I felt no pride in rising above anymore. Things just got beyond that for me. I didn't care about much at that point. I really needed to speak to them and it was worth it. I realise I may have regrets about this later, but it did not come from a place of wierdness. I cannot imagine the regrets will be too deep.

 

Now I can start to care again. Now I can begin to rebuild my life.

 

I think whats wierd is YOU thinking it was stage. For god sake they are married of course they are together. This is their home.

[wheelwright]

These people were ar their house ... In their driveway:o

 

staged? I don't think so. For all you know they were making out.

 

What concerns me is their were probably kids around who saw and heard your outburst.

 

There was no-one around. Kids were at school. It is not a busy street.

[PhoenixRise]

WW

 

These people were in their car, in their driveway, in front of their house. You DON'T KNOW that they staged anything. You don't know why they were there (other than the fact that it is their car in front of their house). You don't know how long they were there.

 

In fact, I would say that if they were laying in wait for you, they would have confronted YOU, not tried to ignore you.

 

So you yelled at them from the street/sidewalk that he said he loved you. What did you hope to accomplish by doing this?

 

If I was the wife in that situation I would now be considering you a potential bunny boiler. AND if my husband had EVER told me that WW was the pursuer who kept coming on to him, if I was the wife in your situation, I would now be convinced it was true.

 

I really do hope you got what you needed from this encounter.

[califnan]

Wheel, I too was embarrassed for you when I read your confrontation to them as you passed their house.

 

I don't feel that way now. You set the Record Straight. You made them to know that you felt you were the rescuer - that after all you did feel that you loved him - and that she had told you that she had never loved him.

 

She walked over and let loose with irrespectful (filthy) language in denying what she had told you ..

 

With the confrontation - you Fully explained your position to them - in just a few sentences .. He can 'act' clingy to his wife - while knowing that he Used you .. (He deserved for your husband to pop him, before) ..

 

And now, as a poster said - you can walk past holding your head high - while ignorring them ..

 

They are left with each other .. a good match ..

[califnan]

P.S. .. If you must walk past their house - hook yourself up to video earphones or something..(and sunglasses).. anything for a distraction ..

[wheelwright]

I think whats wierd is YOU thinking it was stage. For god sake they are married of course they are together. This is their home.

 

For it not to have been staged would mean they returned from somewhere at 9.30 am, sat in their car together for several minutes maybe listening to a favourite song or some such. Knowing that this is the time I walk past. They know I do this school run. Then just at the very minute they decide to get out I happen to be walking by. Even though the last time I saw them together was Oct last year and during the last weeks there has been renewed contact. The coincidence is huge.

 

If it wasn't staged by them, it was staged by providence. I admit the coincidence is possible. Perhaps others should admit the staging is possible rather than having a go.

[bittersweet memories]

For it not to have been staged would mean they returned from somewhere at 9.30 am, sat in their car together for several minutes maybe listening to a favourite song or some such. Knowing that this is the time I walk past. They know I do this school run. Then just at the very minute they decide to get out I happen to be walking by. Even though the last time I saw them together was Oct last year and during the last weeks there has been renewed contact. The coincidence is huge.

 

If it wasn't staged by them, it was staged by providence. I admit the coincidence is possible. Perhaps others should admit the staging is possible rather than having a go.

 

 

Or could it be possible you plan this and were waiting for them to get home so you can blow the lid..you've been wanting to let the wife know about the husband telling you he loves you (from your yesturdays post).

 

What a coincidence you happen to see them and did exactly what you've been wanting to do.

[wheelwright]

WW

 

These people were in their car, in their driveway, in front of their house. You DON'T KNOW that they staged anything. You don't know why they were there (other than the fact that it is their car in front of their house). You don't know how long they were there.

 

In fact, I would say that if they were laying in wait for you, they would have confronted YOU, not tried to ignore you.

 

I really do hope you got what you needed from this encounter.

 

I think they confronted me in order to ignore me.

 

I do know they must have been there for some time, as in walking along the street there is full view of the car and the street itself.

 

I also know that they know my school run movements.

 

Wierd if they staged it, wierd if they didn't. I admit the coincidence is possible, but after it all coming to a head perhaps she needed to confront me. To tell me to p*** off.

 

Thanks califan for your response.

 

As to the bunny boiler accusations: WTF?

 

I haven't approached them in nearly a year. I would never have gone round to confront them even though I needed to. And I will never contact them again, much less attack their pets!

[ladydesigner]

(((Wheelwright))) I'm sorry that you feel this need for closure so bad. I'm not sure if this will be enough. I really feel closure happens within yourself, when you no longer care anymore one way or another. The interaction of yelling from across the street still shows that you care, that he affects you, that she the BS affects you.

 

What you described earlier about him not reciprocating the love and initiating NC while the wife claims she no longer loves him would be enough to anger me beyond belief. Have you not felt any anger for this man yet? I believe you need to get through anger for him to get to a place of indifference=CLOSURE.

 

Get mad at this a**hole. Hell I'm still mad at my XOM plan on staying that way until I don't think about him for a minute.

 

I really hope you find peace Wheelwright, you sound somewhat tortured and I hope you can let go of this MM once and for all. He is an a**, a coward, and does not deserve you or his wife. Let the two of them be. Focus on your marriage and let go.

 

 

Peace be with you (((Wheelwright)))

[wheelwright]

Or could it be possible you plan this and were waiting for them to get home so you can blow the lid..you've been wanting to let the wife know about the husband telling you he loves you (from your yesturdays post).

 

What a coincidence you happen to see them and did exactly what you've been wanting to do.

 

Please! You are accusing me of lying now. That's really not on.

 

I did not wait for them. Indeed, it was a huge surprise to me. I do this walk at the same time most days and have never seen sight nor sound of them.

 

I am offended by this response.

[turnera]

These people were ar their house ... In their driveway:o

 

staged? I don't think so. For all you know they were making out.

 

What concerns me is their were probably kids around who saw and heard your outburst.

Oops! Missed that it was walking by their house.

[wheelwright]

(((Wheelwright))) I'm sorry that you feel this need for closure so bad. I'm not sure if this will be enough. I really feel closure happens within yourself, when you no longer care anymore one way or another. The interaction of yelling from across the street still shows that you care, that he affects you, that she the BS affects you.

 

What you described earlier about him not reciprocating the love and initiating NC while the wife claims she no longer loves him would be enough to anger me beyond belief. Have you not felt any anger for this man yet? I believe you need to get through anger for him to get to a place of indifference=CLOSURE.

 

Get mad at this a**hole. Hell I'm still mad at my XOM plan on staying that way until I don't think about him for a minute.

 

I really hope you find peace Wheelwright, you sound somewhat tortured and I hope you can let go of this MM once and for all. He is an a**, a coward, and does not deserve you or his wife. Let the two of them be. Focus on your marriage and let go.

 

 

Peace be with you (((Wheelwright)))

 

Thanks LD. Yes, I still cared at the point I yelled, but it was also the turning point in getting to not caring. And it was an outlet for the buried anger I have been feeling.

 

I don't know why the confronation was so important for my peace of mind, but it was. I really think it was enough. In a way, it showed I no longer cared about him, only my closure.

 

If you fill someone with dreams and hopes of love and being together, then blank them in the street then text them after 10 months NC that they still love you then ask for NC, then perhaps a confrontation becomes inevitable. Rather than wierd.

[ladydesigner]

Thanks LD. Yes, I still cared at the point I yelled, but it was also the turning point in getting to not caring. And it was an outlet for the buried anger I have been feeling.

 

I don't know why the confronation was so important for my peace of mind, but it was. I really think it was enough. In a way, it showed I no longer cared about him, only my closure.

 

If you fill someone with dreams and hopes of love and being together, then blank them in the street then text them after 10 months NC that they still love you then ask for NC, then perhaps a confrontation becomes inevitable. Rather than wierd.

 

Yes I would agree. If I were to run into my XOM I would probably give him a piece of my mind too, but I think he already knows I can't stand him;)

 

My NC letter to him and removing him as a contact from LinkedIn should be loud and clear enough...LEAVE ME ALONE YOU A**hole:laugh:

 

I hope you find peace now Wheelwright, I have always loved your posts and threads and I am confident that you are going to rise above.

[PhoenixRise]

I think they confronted me in order to ignore me.

 

I do know they must have been there for some time, as in walking along the street there is full view of the car and the street itself.

 

I also know that they know my school run movements.

 

Wierd if they staged it, wierd if they didn't. I admit the coincidence is possible, but after it all coming to a head perhaps she needed to confront me. To tell me to p*** off.

 

Thanks califan for your response.

 

As to the bunny boiler accusations: WTF?

 

I haven't approached them in nearly a year. I would never have gone round to confront them even though I needed to. And I will never contact them again, much less attack their pets!

 

 

 

Just to be clear. I am not calling you a bunny boiler.

 

I don't think you are.

 

 

But I am saying that if I was the wife in your situation and you (the OW) stopped across the street from my house to yell at me that my H told you that he loved you...I would at the very least think you were a potential bunny boiler. AND if MM ever told the wife you were the pursuer...in her mind your behavior would have confirmed it.

 

Maybe you did her a favor.

Edited May 18, 2010 by PhoenixRise

[califnan]

"I want to talk to you - either of you. He said he loved me, You said you'd never loved him"..

 

If this brief statement gives someone closure - so be it .. It was setting the record straight for the married couple, as well ..