Here I am again or closure?

[wish2b]

If it is love, you will end up together. I strongly believe that we don't chose who we love. Having an A is not always about sex. It is about campionshp in a lot of cases. Friendship turns to adoration and sometimes to love. The biggest problem is the drama. There has been so much drama and the kids know it. Even if you ended up together, what would life be like? Would the kids blame you? Would he have to chose between his teenage daughters and you? (something no parent should ever have to do). I really think that this relationship would cause you more pain.

 

Now, there's the H. He obviouisly loves you and wants you to stay. But what about you? What do you want? Will you be happy at home? Will he truly be able to forgive you? Is he going to put you through hell over all of this? Living that way is not healthy for him, for you, or for your family.

 

I am single and have been in love with a MM for several years. Yes, LOVE. I know it is love because he is the last person I think about at night and the first one I think about in the morning. As Randy Pausch put it, his happiness means more to me than my own. Now, he is seperating from his wife. One would think that would make me happy, but all it did was make me so scared for him. He is not handling leaving his kids very well at all. He is going into depression and he hasn't actually moved out yet. He says that he cares about me deeply, but that he after this over he will hate women. He wants me to let him be. I am totally distraught. He is my best friend and even if I can't have him as mine, I want to be there for him while he copes with his. I can put my own feelings aside.

 

Sorry, got caught up in my own mess.

[ComputerJock]

I agree with both of you. I guess I just haven't found enough of the 'I can't believe I did that to my spouse' posts yet, and too many of the 'damn, I can't see my soulmate any more' posts. I'll keep looking. I read, so I can understand the mentality of a person who hurts others for their own gain, as a student of psychology. But it feels like wading into a stinky quagmire; I have to steel myself first.

 

I'm not a BS or a WS. But I cringe, thinking of the BS's reading here, reading things like 'Yeah, I told her off! I told her that her husband loved ME, not HER! So there!'

 

I am glad to see people urging WS's to do the honorable thing. I try to be as compassionate to them. But sometimes it's hard.

 

PS: Sorry for the stream of consciousness T/J, wheelwright; back to your story.

 

I have to agree with you since I am a BS and was never even told she was sorry as she went out the door to go live with the OP. It really sucks and you never forgive or forget. Maybe we are on the wrong site and should be on one that says it's wrong to cheat on your spouse, not one that says go girl.

[bentnotbroken]

I have to agree with you since I am a BS and was never even told she was sorry as she went out the door to go live with the OP. It really sucks and you never forgive or forget. Maybe we are on the wrong site and should be on one that says it's wrong to cheat on your spouse, not one that says go girl.

 

 

Some of us do forgive and find a better life without the bonds placed on us by someone who will never know what real love is. I pray you find the peace.....and somewhere down the line forgiveness.

[bentnotbroken]

If it is love, you will end up together. I strongly believe that we don't chose who we love. Having an A is not always about sex. It is about campionshp in a lot of cases. Friendship turns to adoration and sometimes to love. The biggest problem is the drama. There has been so much drama and the kids know it. Even if you ended up together, what would life be like? Would the kids blame you? Would he have to chose between his teenage daughters and you? (something no parent should ever have to do). I really think that this relationship would cause you more pain.

 

Now, there's the H. He obviouisly loves you and wants you to stay. But what about you? What do you want? Will you be happy at home? Will he truly be able to forgive you? Is he going to put you through hell over all of this? Living that way is not healthy for him, for you, or for your family.

 

I am single and have been in love with a MM for several years. Yes, LOVE. I know it is love because he is the last person I think about at night and the first one I think about in the morning. As Randy Pausch put it, his happiness means more to me than my own. Now, he is seperating from his wife. One would think that would make me happy, but all it did was make me so scared for him. He is not handling leaving his kids very well at all. He is going into depression and he hasn't actually moved out yet. He says that he cares about me deeply, but that he after this over he will hate women. He wants me to let him be. I am totally distraught. He is my best friend and even if I can't have him as mine, I want to be there for him while he copes with his. I can put my own feelings aside.

 

Sorry, got caught up in my own mess.

 

 

Sure we chose who to love. When we feed the attraction, the initial lust, and allow the fantasies to continue. That's a choice. Real love doesn't stomp on others in the process.

[wish2b]

No, we chose somethings. But love is not chosen, it happens. Every person in this life deserves to be loved and deserves to love. I was not looking for love. I was in a loveless marriage for a very long time, 18 years to be exact. Full of disrespect. I didn't go looking for love. I found a companion, a friend. It progressed into love and care and admiration. Someone was interested in what I had to say for the first time in many years. I wasn't perfect in my marriage. But I fell in love with another man. I don't hate my ex or hate his W. I will never say an ill word about her. She is the mother of his children. If she knew about me, there would definitely be hatred on her end. But there is a reason that he has me in his life as well. He didn't just wake up one morning and decide to cheat. If you have never been in love with two people at the same time and torn, then you have no right to judge.

[jwi71]

No, we chose somethings. But love is not chosen, it happens. Every person in this life deserves to be loved and deserves to love. I was not looking for love. I was in a loveless marriage for a very long time, 18 years to be exact. Full of disrespect. I didn't go looking for love. I found a companion, a friend. It progressed into love and care and admiration. Someone was interested in what I had to say for the first time in many years. I wasn't perfect in my marriage. But I fell in love with another man. I don't hate my ex or hate his W. I will never say an ill word about her. She is the mother of his children. If she knew about me, there would definitely be hatred on her end. But there is a reason that he has me in his life as well. He didn't just wake up one morning and decide to cheat. If you have never been in love with two people at the same time and torn, then you have no right to judge.

 

BBM

I'd like to challenge you on what I highlighted because that's exactly what he did - in fact, all cheaters do this at some point so I'm not singling him out.

 

At some point, he DID decide to cheat - to cross "the line". He decided to lie to his W about his whereabouts or with whom and certainly about what he was doing. All a conscious choice. He not only choose it...he planned it too. You two ever make plans together? There ya go...a choice and a plan to cheat.

 

Its all very deliberate.

 

Are you suggesting he innocently meant to have lunch with you some random Thursday and accidentally had sex with you? Repeatedly?

 

How do you see cheating as "not intended or deliberate"?

[turnera]

If you have never been in love with two people at the same time and torn, then you have no right to judge.

Actually, we do. When we see people harming another person for their own benefit. You didn't HAVE to continue to see a man who is not your husband, once you realized you were crossing the line. You CHOSE to do that.

[wish2b]

I didn't say that we didn't chose to cheat. You are right, we chose to cheat. I didn't chose to fall in love with another man. I didn't chose that. But I did. And emotions and feelings can not be turned on and off like a television. I just hope that you are never in the situation where your heart is torn out and you can't let it show and you can't talk to anyone about it. Maybe you think that we deserve it. And maybe you are right. But I am not a bad person. And neither is he. I have no regrets for loving him. My only regret is that we will never be together and I have to live with all of it.

[stillafool]

WW, I think if the MM was really in love with you he would have stood up to your H and his wife. Afterall, you really can't trust what a cheater says. I think he just said those things to keep the affair going.

 

The one I really feel sorry for is your H. Why were you ready to leave him for the MM but after the MM stayed, now you want to keep your H? Even though you have said that even during sex your mind is on MM? Why didn't you move on and divorce? Also, how can you get angry that MM went back on his word and you are also still in your marriage? If your feelings toward your H changed why can't you understand how MM feelings would change for his wife when it came down to leaving her?

[pureinheart]

I guess it's just bugging me that people are high-fiving OP for confronting the BETRAYED WIFE of the cheater.

 

I do see people trying to help the cheaters reason out why the affair is wrong, or at least a dead end.

 

But telling her it's a good thing that she had it out with OM's wife? I don't get it.

 

If you don't think this particular section should be in LS, then talk to Tony, he is the director...you can find him under the heading of "questions and comments". He does this on a voluntary basis.

 

FTR...this is the OM/OW forum...there is a board called Infidelity that you would fit in quite nicely.

 

WW and her story has been around for sometime, read her background...she is not what she was painted to be in this particular thread.

 

I also believe what she said, I think they purposefully sat in wait...

 

I think it's interesting how some pick out one particular thing and run with it...was there any mention of the W COMING over to HER housed telling her that she is f'ed up...but that is ok, right?

[bittersweet memories]

If you don't think this particular section should be in LS, then talk to Tony, he is the director...you can find him under the heading of "questions and comments". He does this on a voluntary basis.

 

FTR...this is the OM/OW forum...there is a board called Infidelity that you would fit in quite nicely.

 

WW and her story has been around for sometime, read her background...she is not what she was painted to be in this particular thread.

 

I also believe what she said, I think they purposefully sat in wait...

 

I think it's interesting how some pick out one particular thing and run with it...was there any mention of the W COMING over to HER housed telling her that she is f'ed up...but that is ok, right?

 

 

Oh come on pureinheart... You need to go re-read what's been posted by this OP and not bits and pieces. You, yourself pick out one particular thing and run with it as well. So don't judge!!

Edited May 19, 2010 by bittersweet memories

[ladydesigner]

Regardless of what Wheelwright has done. I think the real idiot in this situation is the MM. Just 3 weeks ago he texted that he loved her... I mean why? Seriously. NC had been established and HE broke that contact to tell her that. I'm sorry but I would be pissed off too. I feel sorry for his wife that he is still pinning for Wheelwright.

 

I would probably start taking walks in a new area forget those two they sound like a match made in heaven, she no longer loves him (wife said) and he loved Wheelwright (MM)... sheesh

[wish2b]

Ok, so you guys all have a right to judge, but pureinheart doesn't? Facts were stated.

 

It was stated that I have a right to be judged because I chose to harm antoher person and have an affair. I didn't chose to harm anyone and as far as I know, I am not known about in my MM situation. All I know is that I fell in love with a wonderful person. It is a feeling that I forgot I could feel.

 

So, unless you have actually been in my situation, don't judge. Doesn't make you less of sinner to judge people.

[LostMe]

First, sorry to continue this T/J and also sorry to be posting here when I'm not an OW.

 

Turnera - The men and women in this forum do NOT sit around all day congratulating each other on wrecking peoples lives. Most of these men and women find themselves in impossible situations which cause them confusion and pain, and they deserve a place to get support and advice.

 

And to be honest, as a BS, I have found it incredibly helpful reading posts here and seeing the other side of the story.

 

Before I came to LS, I will admit that I was *incredibly* ignorant about OW/OM and just imagined most of their attitudes and motives to be callous and almost cruel. I've since realised that it's not the case at all. I find myself very thankful to be given this opportunity to look at the affair from all sides and realise that there is hurt on all sides and there are plenty of good people involved in affairs.

 

I can't say that I necessarily agree with the choice to have an affair, and I wouldn't ever encourage anyone to start one. However I don't see the point in totally villifying every person who does find themselves entangled in an affair and denying them the support they need to move forward and have a healthy life and future.

 

I am one BS who is glad that this section exists on the LS forums and wouldn't want that to change.

 

Sorry for the t/j again WF, but this post means a lot to me.

 

In the interest of understanding a cheater's mindset I can truthfully say that i did not think of anyone (but me) suffering as a result of my actions. Call it arrogant, naive, selfish...it is of course all of those things. But i did not for one second think i would hurt anyone. I just lived for the moment in a fantasy world. I did not think about his W or my H. If i did i wouldn't have done it. Like most people I have been betrayed in the past and always thought myself a better person. But in the 'fog' it all went out of the window.

 

Not offering excuses here, just trying to explain as i know exactly where Turnera is coming from. It's not like i thought to myself "but what about my H?, ah, **** him" or "what about his W? She can cock off", I just didn't think about them at all. Because i didn't want to.

 

I thought i would never cheat. I loathed all cheaters. And yet here I am. I somebody who made a very bad choice. But i am not a bad person.

[turnera]

I think it's interesting how some pick out one particular thing and run with it...was there any mention of the W COMING over to HER housed telling her that she is f'ed up...but that is ok, right?

Uh, YEAH!

 

If some woman started scr&wing my husband, you BET I would go over to HER house and tell her how f'ed up she is. Because SHE IS! SHE'S AN ADULTERER!

 

I would not be the person who had done anything wrong! I would have the RIGHT to be mad! Not the cheater!

 

Look, I'm not saying people who cheat are bad or evil people. I'm the first person to forgive people their mistakes. I have a sign on my wall that says 'Everyone you meet deserves to be greeted with a smile.'

 

But if that person goes on to say that it is HE or SHE who is being wronged, when they caused the issue in the first place by entering into adultery...I don't get it.

[turnera]

Regardless of what Wheelwright has done. I think the real idiot in this situation is the MM. Just 3 weeks ago he texted that he loved her... I mean why? Seriously. NC had been established and HE broke that contact to tell her that. I'm sorry but I would be pissed off too. I feel sorry for his wife that he is still pinning for Wheelwright.

 

I would probably start taking walks in a new area forget those two they sound like a match made in heaven, she no longer loves him (wife said) and he loved Wheelwright (MM)... sheesh

Yep. I agree.

[turnera]

Sorry for the t/j again WF, but this post means a lot to me.

 

In the interest of understanding a cheater's mindset I can truthfully say that i did not think of anyone (but me) suffering as a result of my actions. Call it arrogant, naive, selfish...it is of course all of those things. But i did not for one second think i would hurt anyone. I just lived for the moment in a fantasy world. I did not think about his W or my H. If i did i wouldn't have done it. Like most people I have been betrayed in the past and always thought myself a better person. But in the 'fog' it all went out of the window.

 

Not offering excuses here, just trying to explain as i know exactly where Turnera is coming from. It's not like i thought to myself "but what about my H?, ah, **** him" or "what about his W? She can cock off", I just didn't think about them at all. Because i didn't want to.

 

I thought i would never cheat. I loathed all cheaters. And yet here I am. I somebody who made a very bad choice. But i am not a bad person.

Thanks. That is very helpful.

[jwi71]

Last of my T/J

 

I didn't say that we didn't chose to cheat.

 

Actually, you did. I put in bold above and why I went T/J.

It always irks me when people claim they didn't choose to cheat.

 

You are right, we chose to cheat. I didn't chose to fall in love with another man. I didn't chose that.

Actually, I'd challenge this too. You mean you woke up one day and loved him? Or was it a gradual building of emotion. I happen to think its a gradual building of emotion and that requires choice - the choice to trust the other. See where I'm going...

 

But I did. And emotions and feelings can not be turned on and off like a television.

Exactly...they cant be turned ON like a switch. It takes time to develop and that time invested (for development) IS a choice.

 

I just hope that you are never in the situation where your heart is torn out and you can't let it show and you can't talk to anyone about it

Never. I control me and my emotions. If I am not happy in an R, I say so - not cheat. I call it integrity (not a dig but how do I say that w/o sounding like it)...

 

. Maybe you think that we deserve it

Don't feed me that crap - stop being defensive when you aren't being attacked. I do think we deserve the consequences for our choices though. All of us.

 

And maybe you are right.

Too harsh again but you must live with the consequences of choices..as do I and everyone else. Unless you are Gabriella Nagy - then its Rogers fault (coudln't resist).

 

But I am not a bad person. And neither is he. I have no regrets for loving him. My only regret is that we will never be together and I have to live with all of it.

If you hide it and allow it to be hidden then there is regret. Think about it.

 

Ok...no more TJ...Wish2b, start a thread...you'd be surprised at the responses...

[pureinheart]

Hi WW,

 

I think much has been taken out of context concerning your thread...I get exactly where you are coming from. You must be one hell of a person to have a H that would go to blows with the OM, he realises that people make mistakes and I would venture to say is feeling some guilt also.

 

Posters, please keep in mind it is difficult to cummunicate every single detail...every situation is different...no one is saying is is "right" to have an A...but if anyone was...guess what, it would be ok because this is the OM/OW FORUM.

 

Some of you sound so perfect that why do you even lower yourselves to post in this forum the first place.

 

WW, I think it is great that you got closure, and I find it quite interesting that I ran across those old "love letters"...it helped me to indentify with you right at the right time.

 

Also I hear quite often that it is not ok to hurt others...why do you do the very thing you hate or say is not ok...words do hurt, indifferent attitudes hurt, selfrighteousness hurts. There are many forms of hurt.

[turnera]

But cheating is one hurt you can avoid - by leaving the spouse you're unhappy with BEFORE you see anyone else. That makes it unique.

 

...no one is saying is is "right" to have an A...but if anyone was...guess what, it would be ok because this is the OM/OW FORUM.

It would be ok to talk about it here because that's what the forum is for, or it would be ok to cheat? If it's the former, does that mean that everyone who comes to this forum should be told they are doing the right thing, simply because the forum is 'for' cheaters? Maybe they come here to decide if they should end the destructive behavior, and need to hear about consequences?

[wish2b]

This is my last post. This is not the place I thought it was. I needed someone who had been where I was. I was emotionally beat down enough for 18 years of marriage. I don't need it here. My H did not leave because of an affair. I finally got the courage to say "I am not happy and need out." I did that. But, T, it was not easy. It was not a decision that anyone could make on a whim. I felt guilty for not being happy. Before I had even had any thought about leaving. I had children. I thought I owed them to fake a smile and put my own happiness aside. What I didn't understand was that I was doing them NO favors. They were more understanding about ending my marriage than some of my friends. And yes, as I have stated and I in love with a MM. Guilt? Absolutely! Don't think for one minute that I am looking for someone to say that it is ok for what I have done. But I was hoping that someone would understand that I found happiness in a person that was forbidden to me. If I was torn by this, then I would have found the forum in the first place.

 

Beating those down that have an A is not going to change their situation. They already know that it is a situation that they should not be in.

[ladydesigner]

This is my last post. This is not the place I thought it was. I needed someone who had been where I was. I was emotionally beat down enough for 18 years of marriage. I don't need it here. My H did not leave because of an affair. I finally got the courage to say "I am not happy and need out." I did that. But, T, it was not easy. It was not a decision that anyone could make on a whim. I felt guilty for not being happy. Before I had even had any thought about leaving. I had children. I thought I owed them to fake a smile and put my own happiness aside. What I didn't understand was that I was doing them NO favors. They were more understanding about ending my marriage than some of my friends. And yes, as I have stated and I in love with a MM. Guilt? Absolutely! Don't think for one minute that I am looking for someone to say that it is ok for what I have done. But I was hoping that someone would understand that I found happiness in a person that was forbidden to me. If I was torn by this, then I would have found the forum in the first place.

 

Beating those down that have an A is not going to change their situation. They already know that it is a situation that they should not be in.

 

I agree this forum is a little more tough love. Sometimes I have needed it though. The other woman forum is a good one as far as less bashing. Please don't let them scare you off it is good for other reasons.

[califnan]

This is my last post. This is not the place I thought it was. I needed someone who had been where I was. I was emotionally beat down enough for 18 years of marriage. I don't need it here. My H did not leave because of an affair. I finally got the courage to say "I am not happy and need out." I did that. But, T, it was not easy. It was not a decision that anyone could make on a whim. I felt guilty for not being happy. Before I had even had any thought about leaving. I had children. I thought I owed them to fake a smile and put my own happiness aside. What I didn't understand was that I was doing them NO favors. They were more understanding about ending my marriage than some of my friends. And yes, as I have stated and I in love with a MM. Guilt? Absolutely! Don't think for one minute that I am looking for someone to say that it is ok for what I have done. But I was hoping that someone would understand that I found happiness in a person that was forbidden to me. If I was torn by this, then I would have found the forum in the first place.

 

Beating those down that have an A is not going to change their situation. They already know that it is a situation that they should not be in.

 

--------------------

 

Wish, Forgive me for coming in late. Are you saying that at the time you asked for a divorce, there was no other man in the picture?

[bentnotbroken]

No, we chose somethings. But love is not chosen, it happens. Every person in this life deserves to be loved and deserves to love. I was not looking for love. I was in a loveless marriage for a very long time, 18 years to be exact. Full of disrespect. I didn't go looking for love. I found a companion, a friend. It progressed into love and care and admiration. Someone was interested in what I had to say for the first time in many years. I wasn't perfect in my marriage. But I fell in love with another man. I don't hate my ex or hate his W. I will never say an ill word about her. She is the mother of his children. If she knew about me, there would definitely be hatred on her end. But there is a reason that he has me in his life as well. He didn't just wake up one morning and decide to cheat. If you have never been in love with two people at the same time and torn, then you have no right to judge.

 

And we will agree to disagree about chosing to love, since some are capable of making choices in life and others let life make the choices for them...but I have every right to say what I see as wrong. You have the right not to agree, disagree, argue the point or ignore. But unless I can issue punishment(which I cannot, Thank God) I am not judging you at all. And the spineless wonder may not have awaken one morning and said "today is the day I chose to stick my winky in somebody else's wife". But he has consciously woken on more than one more with the intent and choice to lie and deceive. The only one he loves is himself. You can't love someone and look them in the face and lie to them daily. That's called selfishness at best and no ballz at worst.

[jthorne]

WW, I am very sorry for the t/j, but...

I have read "you can't choose who you love" 4 times this week.

I would like to start a new thread. Where ya'all want it? Infidelity or OW?

I vote for Infidelity.

Gimme 5 and I hope to see ya'all over there.

 

Again, Im sorry for the tj, WW, it's just that it was brought up here too.