Here I am again or closure?

[crazycatlady]

So much to reply to...this was much easier to keep up with when I had more time to post lol.

 

WW - glad to make you smile. If nothing else, I hope if things end with your H and yourself, then it can be as gentle as possible. I won't say painless, because nothing felt so strongly is ever painless to let it go. But I do wish you and your H all the best. I think he has definately proven he's the better man who has your best wishes in mind.

 

wish2b - loving two people is hard, especially when you can't pick between them. Went through that with my H. It brought a lot of things out that he was unsure of how to bring up. Not the best way to go about it, but for us, we have moved from an open marriage to a polyamorous one. Could have saved us some pain if he had been more open from the start about his needs, but hindsight is always 20/20. Don't leave, give it time here.

 

I also don't believe we choose who we love. While you can sometimes bury it before it gets started, but sometimes, you can't because it snuck up on you. All I know is I didn't choose to love my husband. He's definately not an easy person to love. I know my H would not have chosen to put himself in the situation he was in last year. The pain he caused all three of us. Same goes for his partner in crime, my sister. Can't imagine she did it deliberately either. Love.....just happens. Sure you can deal with that emotion differently, but for some spouses, even loving another person is cheating and an affair, so its pretty much damned if you do damned if you don't.

 

CCL

[fooled once]

Yes!

Today xMM and his W staged a meeting. I have to walk past their house on the school run. They were both in his car, and got out when I walked by on my way back. They hadn't just driven up. They were waiting for me. They must see me walk by the same time every day.

 

So I shout out 'I want to talk to you - either of you.' They ignore me. So I shout out - 'He said he loved me. You said you'd never loved him' - sorry if folks think that was wrong, but I am beyond that now. Anyway, they staged it, they called this shot in a way.

 

So she comes over and says she never said that she didn't love him. She had always loved him. (She was drunk when she told me this, so perhaps doesn't remember) but I feel a lot better knowing that she loves him. Things make more sense that way.

 

Then she tells me 'I don't care how f***** up you are. P*** off and leave us alone.' (My H had said about me being f***** up in the confrontation last week).

 

Again, they were in THEIR car in THEIR driveway. You were across the street. When THEY got out of THEIR car, YOU chose to start yelling at them.

 

I know you like to think their life revolves around you, as if they sit and wait for you to walk by. YOU choose to walk by THEIR home. For all you know, they were getting it on in the car and were OBLIVIOUS to you; but you can't believe that. You have got to believe they know YOUR timetable and they have nothing better to do with their day than sit and wait for you to walk by.

 

They didn't start the interaction, YOU did by yelling at them.

 

 

And for the record, I really did not make this confrontation occur, and at any other time in the history of this mess I would have walked on by. The emotions were just that extreme at that point. I have told a few friends about it now, and asked if they think coincidence or staged - one friend pointed out that they could have stayed in their car for 30 seconds while I walked by if they didn't want it.

 

 

Yes you did - YOU chose to yell at them. You have to tell his wife that he said he loved you.

 

Hi WW,

 

I think much has been taken out of context concerning your thread...I get exactly where you are coming from. You must be one hell of a person to have a H that would go to blows with the OM, he realises that people make mistakes and I would venture to say is feeling some guilt also.

 

Posters, please keep in mind it is difficult to cummunicate every single detail...every situation is different...no one is saying is is "right" to have an A...but if anyone was...guess what, it would be ok because this is the OM/OW FORUM.

 

Some of you sound so perfect that why do you even lower yourselves to post in this forum the first place.

 

WW, I think it is great that you got closure, and I find it quite interesting that I ran across those old "love letters"...it helped me to indentify with you right at the right time.

 

Also I hear quite often that it is not ok to hurt others...why do you do the very thing you hate or say is not ok...words do hurt, indifferent attitudes hurt, selfrighteousness hurts. There are many forms of hurt.

 

Pure, just because many of us disagree doesn't make us wrong and you right. I don't see a single instance of anyone taking anything out of context.

 

It gets very frustrating that if someone disagrees with the OP and their actions, they get jumped on for being 'self righteous' or told must be nice to be perfect and make mistakes.

 

Not one single person on here has said they were perfect or didn't make mistakes.

 

Many of us don't sugar coat our responses with "awww....poor OW" or pat the poster on the back for their behavior (especially verbally attacking an innocent person in the affair triangle).

 

This is the internet. If you can't handle various responses, don't post. Many of the responses on this thread are from former OW. In your view, are former OW only allowed to post if we placate the original poster? Or should we just provide a story about how we do the same thing or acted the same way?

 

As the saying goes, take what you need and leave the rest.

[califnan]

Fooled Once.. Yes they were in their car in their driveway at their house breathing their air.

 

But as it happened they got out of the vehicle at the time she was passing and she let loose about basically just two things: He said he loved WW .. and the wife had told WW that she hadn't loved her husband.

 

It might have been an explosion - but it was shortlived, and probably never to happen again ..

[GreenEyedLady]

Fooled Once.. Yes they were in their car in their driveway at their house breathing their air.

 

But as it happened they got out of the vehicle at the time she was passing and she let loose about basically just two things: He said he loved WW .. and the wife had told WW that she hadn't loved her husband.

 

It might have been an explosion - but it was shortlived, and probably never to happen again ..

 

I am wondering why OP's H hasn't already stated a boundary be another running route.

 

It's another explosion. In PUBLIC. With another explosion happening with all couples present and resulting in violence.

 

In less than a month.

 

I can't believe the OP's H puts up with this. His W running past her AP's house and yelling to his W that he told her he loved her.

 

It is just sad.

 

And I wonder if she told him about this little "explosion."

 

GEL

[califnan]

I am wondering why OP's H hasn't already stated a boundary be another running route.

 

It's another explosion. In PUBLIC. With another explosion happening with all couples present and resulting in violence.

 

In less than a month.

 

I can't believe the OP's H puts up with this. His W running past her AP's house and yelling to his W that he told her he loved her.

 

It is just sad.

 

And I wonder if she told him about this little "explosion."

 

GEL

 

------------------

 

Point taken .. WW needs Another route .. that's for sure ..

[pureinheart]

But cheating is one hurt you can avoid - by leaving the spouse you're unhappy with BEFORE you see anyone else. That makes it unique.

 

It would be ok to talk about it here because that's what the forum is for, or it would be ok to cheat? If it's the former, does that mean that everyone who comes to this forum should be told they are doing the right thing, simply because the forum is 'for' cheaters? Maybe they come here to decide if they should end the destructive behavior, and need to hear about consequences?

 

T, this is what this forum was designed for...and as far as being told what is wrong, most of the OM/OW have made the decision of whether they want to stay or go (in the R)...I believe they should be supported exactly where their at...they already know what is right or wrong for them.

 

Everyone is at different levels of understanding concerning various circumstances. The most effective way to reach a person is to reach them right where their at...meaning LD needed tough love (I'm not sure that from some it was anything but "love")...well there are many quite willing to do that here and it just gets old hearing the same old for those who don't want the "tough". Some want understanding where their at.

 

There are some that don't want out of the A and are quite happy, although they have bad days just like the rest of us and find it difficult to get any understanding in their situation....so they just help others.

 

T, when I first came to this forum it saved my life...I was in an EA with now exDM, with a psycho family ...he chased me relentlessly...now here's where it would be difficult for you to understand....when you get into the details of the R one begins to understand how and why it took place to begin with...this is how it is with many...there is not your usual set of circumstances, there are defintely extenuating circumstances.

 

I now realise that due to severe trauma I was vulnerable...am I saying this is right..no, BUT I am saying this was not some lust, back alley A...I made A LOT of bad choices during this period...I am unable to communicate all of the traumas for good reasons, but hopefully you will get the point.

 

A lot of people make it sound like the OW/OM are so f-ed up, couldn't care less about anyone else, slime bag cheaters, sleeze, ect.

 

Ok, back then this forum HELPED me, worked with me and most had little knowledge except for brief facts...they took me at face value that I wasn't what most paint the OW/OM to be in this forum.

 

Then I come back after not posting for a couple of years and it saved my life again...I so admire how the OW/OM carry themselves and learned so much from them as to how to behave, they are reasonable. I am embarrassed at what I see from some that post in this forum.

 

May I ask why some have the need to persecute others no matter what part of the triangle you were in...I just don't get that.

[pureinheart]

Oh come on pureinheart... You need to go re-read what's been posted by this OP and not bits and pieces. You, yourself pick out one particular thing and run with it as well. So don't judge!!

 

I read the entire OP...and I trust what she said...

[pureinheart]

Uh, YEAH!

 

If some woman started scr&wing my husband, you BET I would go over to HER house and tell her how f'ed up she is. Because SHE IS! SHE'S AN ADULTERER!

 

I would not be the person who had done anything wrong! I would have the RIGHT to be mad! Not the cheater!

 

Look, I'm not saying people who cheat are bad or evil people. I'm the first person to forgive people their mistakes. I have a sign on my wall that says 'Everyone you meet deserves to be greeted with a smile.'

 

But if that person goes on to say that it is HE or SHE who is being wronged, when they caused the issue in the first place by entering into adultery...I don't get it.

 

Please tell me how this supports the OP...this is why I brought up the infidelity forum for you, you can help them there.

 

You have completely taken the OP way out of context...

[califnan]

WW has made it apparent that she has only sought closure and is repentant for the affair..

[pureinheart]

This is my last post. This is not the place I thought it was. I needed someone who had been where I was. I was emotionally beat down enough for 18 years of marriage. I don't need it here. My H did not leave because of an affair. I finally got the courage to say "I am not happy and need out." I did that. But, T, it was not easy. It was not a decision that anyone could make on a whim. I felt guilty for not being happy. Before I had even had any thought about leaving. I had children. I thought I owed them to fake a smile and put my own happiness aside. What I didn't understand was that I was doing them NO favors. They were more understanding about ending my marriage than some of my friends. And yes, as I have stated and I in love with a MM. Guilt? Absolutely! Don't think for one minute that I am looking for someone to say that it is ok for what I have done. But I was hoping that someone would understand that I found happiness in a person that was forbidden to me. If I was torn by this, then I would have found the forum in the first place.

 

Beating those down that have an A is not going to change their situation. They already know that it is a situation that they should not be in.

 

If you should come back to this thread ((((big huggssss)))...unfortunately there is a mixture...mainly those who twist words to their own advantage because they are angry or do not have a clue as to how to communicate the proper way...there are some that do communicate properly and in the right context...

 

This is how it usually ends up...they've got both forums...one is meant for them and one for OW/OM...they enjoy beating up what they perceive to be vulnerable.

 

Some are sincere concerning reform and don't talk down to others, they just try to reason with them...

 

Your right, this is extremely unhealthy, as unhealthy as unwarranted condemnation and they call it tough love...OMG

[pureinheart]

WW has made it apparent that she has only sought closure and is repentant for the affair..

 

CN, you crack me up.....you said in one sentance what I was trying to say in a book....oh well, someday...

[wheelwright]

I am wondering why OP's H hasn't already stated a boundary be another running route.

 

It's another explosion. In PUBLIC. With another explosion happening with all couples present and resulting in violence.

 

In less than a month.

 

I can't believe the OP's H puts up with this. His W running past her AP's house and yelling to his W that he told her he loved her.

 

It is just sad.

 

And I wonder if she told him about this little "explosion."

 

GEL

 

My H has known me for 19 years. He also knows this is the first confrontation I have had in that time. I am usually a peacemaker and run away from confrontation.

 

Yes, he knows about it.

 

During his confronation with xMM he told him he should talk to me. My H knows how much I needed closure.

 

H also walks past their house daily. It is the way to town, the way to school. I have asked a neighbour if we could use an exit from their garden to avoid this route, but they said no. I can't avoid walking on their street.

 

I will not try to speak to either of them again. There is no need now.

 

I think i got jumped on here because a lot of people didn't buy the staging idea, and saw me as the sole cause. I'm afraid after sober reflection and considering the coincidence option and talking to friends, I remain convinced it was staged.

 

This means his BS or XMM wanted to be seen by me together, which is a confrontation too. I believe she wanted to confront me, and really this was for the best. Things would have seethed otherwise. For all of us.

 

 

I have also annoyed people on here for my exploration of the gaslighting subject - which I was trying to work out - is it wrong to gaslight if you are also trying to protect while doing so? I didn't know the answer to this, and my comments were provocative to people. I got my answer to this in the book 'The Reader' - you can't make the decision for another about what constitutes their happiness. This turns them into an object. I understand that now, and understand the point made by BSs here that it is a wrong thing to do to someone. I kind of knew this anyway, but needed to explore the issue.

 

This of course means I now fully understand why As are wrong. But I also know from experience that falling in love is not about choice. So I understand how we get into this predicament. It's not one I could stay in - I would split rather than continue LTR A.

 

In my confrontation I did not swear or berate. I spoke of my distress and confusion. I would have preferred to do that without confrontation, but had been denied that option. I did not respond in anger to her anger or swearing or lack of compassion. We were both hurt by her H, and my love for him means I have some rights too. I have the right to her compassion, just as she does to mine. But her hurt and hatred are to the extent that she can't give me that, which I understand and feel sorry about.

 

There are lots of things I could do if I wished to hurt them or her, but I do not operate like that.

 

See Sparks posts for an understanding of BSs compassion to OW.

 

I asked my H why he forgives me. He said 'because you are still you, I still love you, because I can see it's not all your fault, because I understand you needed to do it, and because you've got a nice ***!'

 

He put his arms around me the other day and said 'you are a wonderful person' so I guess I shouldn't be too bothered by the bashing here.

 

And I really thank the posters who have remembered previous posts of mine where my pain has been laid bare, or when my guilt has, or when I have said something helpful to one of them.

 

I apologise to any posters who I have riled in some way.

 

I understand the confrontation seems insensitive, but for this occasion, my sensitivities were also important.

 

My feelings about xMM? I agree with CCL. He is either a user or too weak to tell the truth to people. And that does not appeal to me in a man. The love I felt for him was real, and I will grieve, but more peacefully now.

 

Do I deserve my H? He has to be the judge of that.

Edited May 20, 2010 by wheelwright
adding

[jennie-jennie]

This is my last post. This is not the place I thought it was. I needed someone who had been where I was. I was emotionally beat down enough for 18 years of marriage. I don't need it here. My H did not leave because of an affair. I finally got the courage to say "I am not happy and need out." I did that. But, T, it was not easy. It was not a decision that anyone could make on a whim. I felt guilty for not being happy. Before I had even had any thought about leaving. I had children. I thought I owed them to fake a smile and put my own happiness aside. What I didn't understand was that I was doing them NO favors. They were more understanding about ending my marriage than some of my friends. And yes, as I have stated and I in love with a MM. Guilt? Absolutely! Don't think for one minute that I am looking for someone to say that it is ok for what I have done. But I was hoping that someone would understand that I found happiness in a person that was forbidden to me. If I was torn by this, then I would have found the forum in the first place.

 

Beating those down that have an A is not going to change their situation. They already know that it is a situation that they should not be in.

 

I am sorry to see yet another OW leave LS because of the so called "tough love" from the BSs and reformed OW posting in the OW/OM section. If all the "tough love" manages to do is chase people away when they need support, then it is not doing any good. Or perhaps the intention is that the OW/OM have been so bad that they are not worthy of support unless they repent their evil ways?

 

Wish2b, I am sorry you did not find the support you hoped for on LS. We are several OW/OM who stick it out here despite the so called "tough love". We would be happy to see you join us.

 

Take care!

[Fallen Angel]

I am sorry to see yet another OW leave LS because of the so called "tough love" from the BSs and reformed OW posting in the OW/OM section. If all the "tough love" manages to do is chase people away when they need support, then it is not doing any good. Or perhaps the intention is that the OW/OM have been so bad that they are not worthy of support unless they repent their evil ways?

 

Wish2b, I am sorry you did not find the support you hoped for on LS. We are several OW/OM who stick it out here despite the so called "tough love". We would be happy to see you join us.

 

Take care!

 

I second this.

 

When I came to OW/OM board, I too was given much "tough love". It was not what I needed. Fortunately the love that exists in my relationship was enough to withstand the attempts to make me question my own experiences and my own reality.

 

Wish2b, no one here knows exactly what your experiences are, but there are many here who will tell you that all relationships with someone who hasa prior legal commitment to another are bad, unhealthy, and make you an evil person. There are some however who are here to support you at whatever stage of your relationship you are in. Some of us are happy, unrepentant OW and we are here if you want to talk. We will offer you support in the best way that we know how, be it that you wish to stay happily in your relationship, or if you want to end it. The ultimate goal for some of us is for your happiness and well being, and sometimes that means staying in the relationship that provides you with the means for your happiness and contentment. (((hugs)))

 

I hope you come back and stick it out. There are people here who can offer you the support you seek, though we are fewer than those who just wish to berate and belittle you.

[crazycatlady]

My H has known me for 19 years. He also knows this is the first confrontation I have had in that time. I am usually a peacemaker and run away from confrontation.

 

Yes, he knows about it.

 

During his confronation with xMM he told him he should talk to me. My H knows how much I needed closure.

 

H also walks past their house daily. It is the way to town, the way to school. I have asked a neighbour if we could use an exit from their garden to avoid this route, but they said no. I can't avoid walking on their street.

 

I will not try to speak to either of them again. There is no need now.

 

I think i got jumped on here because a lot of people didn't buy the staging idea, and saw me as the sole cause. I'm afraid after sober reflection and considering the coincidence option and talking to friends, I remain convinced it was staged.

 

This means his BS or XMM wanted to be seen by me together, which is a confrontation too. I believe she wanted to confront me, and really this was for the best. Things would have seethed otherwise. For all of us.

 

 

I have also annoyed people on here for my exploration of the gaslighting subject - which I was trying to work out - is it wrong to gaslight if you are also trying to protect while doing so? I didn't know the answer to this, and my comments were provocative to people. I got my answer to this in the book 'The Reader' - you can't make the decision for another about what constitutes their happiness. This turns them into an object. I understand that now, and understand the point made by BSs here that it is a wrong thing to do to someone. I kind of knew this anyway, but needed to explore the issue.

 

This of course means I now fully understand why As are wrong. But I also know from experience that falling in love is not about choice. So I understand how we get into this predicament. It's not one I could stay in - I would split rather than continue LTR A.

 

In my confrontation I did not swear or berate. I spoke of my distress and confusion. I would have preferred to do that without confrontation, but had been denied that option. I did not respond in anger to her anger or swearing or lack of compassion. We were both hurt by her H, and my love for him means I have some rights too. I have the right to her compassion, just as she does to mine. But her hurt and hatred are to the extent that she can't give me that, which I understand and feel sorry about.

 

There are lots of things I could do if I wished to hurt them or her, but I do not operate like that.

 

See Sparks posts for an understanding of BSs compassion to OW.

 

I asked my H why he forgives me. He said 'because you are still you, I still love you, because I can see it's not all your fault, because I understand you needed to do it, and because you've got a nice ***!'

 

He put his arms around me the other day and said 'you are a wonderful person' so I guess I shouldn't be too bothered by the bashing here.

 

And I really thank the posters who have remembered previous posts of mine where my pain has been laid bare, or when my guilt has, or when I have said something helpful to one of them.

 

I apologise to any posters who I have riled in some way.

 

I understand the confrontation seems insensitive, but for this occasion, my sensitivities were also important.

 

My feelings about xMM? I agree with CCL. He is either a user or too weak to tell the truth to people. And that does not appeal to me in a man. The love I felt for him was real, and I will grieve, but more peacefully now.

 

Do I deserve my H? He has to be the judge of that.

 

 

WW - I feel a peace in that post, is that how you are feeling? I hope so. I wish we had a hugging smilie. I would give you a big (((HUG))).

 

CCL

[Hazyhead]

My H has known me for 19 years. He also knows this is the first confrontation I have had in that time. I am usually a peacemaker and run away from confrontation.

 

Yes, he knows about it.

 

During his confronation with xMM he told him he should talk to me. My H knows how much I needed closure.

 

H also walks past their house daily. It is the way to town, the way to school. I have asked a neighbour if we could use an exit from their garden to avoid this route, but they said no. I can't avoid walking on their street.

 

I will not try to speak to either of them again. There is no need now.

 

I think i got jumped on here because a lot of people didn't buy the staging idea, and saw me as the sole cause. I'm afraid after sober reflection and considering the coincidence option and talking to friends, I remain convinced it was staged.

 

This means his BS or XMM wanted to be seen by me together, which is a confrontation too. I believe she wanted to confront me, and really this was for the best. Things would have seethed otherwise. For all of us.

 

 

I have also annoyed people on here for my exploration of the gaslighting subject - which I was trying to work out - is it wrong to gaslight if you are also trying to protect while doing so? I didn't know the answer to this, and my comments were provocative to people. I got my answer to this in the book 'The Reader' - you can't make the decision for another about what constitutes their happiness. This turns them into an object. I understand that now, and understand the point made by BSs here that it is a wrong thing to do to someone. I kind of knew this anyway, but needed to explore the issue.

 

This of course means I now fully understand why As are wrong. But I also know from experience that falling in love is not about choice. So I understand how we get into this predicament. It's not one I could stay in - I would split rather than continue LTR A.

 

In my confrontation I did not swear or berate. I spoke of my distress and confusion. I would have preferred to do that without confrontation, but had been denied that option. I did not respond in anger to her anger or swearing or lack of compassion. We were both hurt by her H, and my love for him means I have some rights too. I have the right to her compassion, just as she does to mine. But her hurt and hatred are to the extent that she can't give me that, which I understand and feel sorry about.

 

There are lots of things I could do if I wished to hurt them or her, but I do not operate like that.

 

See Sparks posts for an understanding of BSs compassion to OW.

 

I asked my H why he forgives me. He said 'because you are still you, I still love you, because I can see it's not all your fault, because I understand you needed to do it, and because you've got a nice ***!'

 

He put his arms around me the other day and said 'you are a wonderful person' so I guess I shouldn't be too bothered by the bashing here.

 

And I really thank the posters who have remembered previous posts of mine where my pain has been laid bare, or when my guilt has, or when I have said something helpful to one of them.

 

I apologise to any posters who I have riled in some way.

 

I understand the confrontation seems insensitive, but for this occasion, my sensitivities were also important.

 

My feelings about xMM? I agree with CCL. He is either a user or too weak to tell the truth to people. And that does not appeal to me in a man. The love I felt for him was real, and I will grieve, but more peacefully now.

 

Do I deserve my H? He has to be the judge of that.

 

I know you've had your issues with your H, WW, but he sounds like a wonderful man and I hope you guys work it out. I understand how you would feel jumped on and I can see how the event does seem staged. I'm glad you are finding your closure. Best wished to you and your H.

[turnera]

I'm sorry, but I disagree. If someone was in a forum talking about how good his heroin was going for him, cos it makes him feel good, would you support him? He knows it's wrong, but he has chosen to stay with it. If we were talking about a 500-lb person about his love affair for ice cream, I'd be asking the same kinds of questions: do you realize you are harming yourself, and the others in your life?

 

The only time I will support an affair is if all involved parties know about it and are ok with it. Otherwise, it is a disaster waiting to happen - for the OP, for the OM/OW's spouse, for the OP's spouse, most especially for children involved. If all that's going to happen here is for the cheater to get hugs and support...when exactly are they going to just sit down and think about where their life is going?

 

I have been as respectful as I can be here, while still asking the OP - or any OP in this forum - to seriously question if they've looked down the road at the consequences. Sometimes that's what people need to hear, to be able to face their choices and repercussions. And if they still say it's their 'right' or destiny or whatever, IMO it's not everyone's job to then welcome their choice because, after all, our main purpose in life should be to make sure we each are happy, right?

 

JMHO

[Hazyhead]

I'm sorry, but I disagree. If someone was in a forum talking about how good his heroin was going for him, cos it makes him feel good, would you support him? He knows it's wrong, but he has chosen to stay with it. If we were talking about a 500-lb person about his love affair for ice cream, I'd be asking the same kinds of questions: do you realize you are harming yourself, and the others in your life?

 

The only time I will support an affair is if all involved parties know about it and are ok with it. Otherwise, it is a disaster waiting to happen - for the OP, for the OM/OW's spouse, for the OP's spouse, most especially for children involved. If all that's going to happen here is for the cheater to get hugs and support...when exactly are they going to just sit down and think about where their life is going?

 

I have been as respectful as I can be here, while still asking the OP - or any OP in this forum - to seriously question if they've looked down the road at the consequences. Sometimes that's what people need to hear, to be able to face their choices and repercussions. And if they still say it's their 'right' or destiny or whatever, IMO it's not everyone's job to then welcome their choice because, after all, our main purpose in life should be to make sure we each are happy, right?

 

JMHO

 

Where on earth, or anywhere in this thread to be more accurate, did you get the impression that people are cheering affairs, or not facing consequences? It seems pretty clear to me that WW has more than faced repercussions from the affair. Just because we wish someone well for recovery afterwards does not mean we are saying 'Bravo! Great work!' I think your high horse is pretty lofty up there.

[turnera]

I was referring to someone congratulating OP for confronting a BETRAYED wife, by shouting out loud, in front of the betrayed wife's house, that her husband didn't love her. In public. As if the BW hadn't suffered enough already.

 

Is the OP suffering? Of course she is; that's what happens when you have an affair - someone ends up suffering. I just believe that there are a lot of ways someone can get closure, that don't involve bringing the BW down even further and giving her even more pain than she's already received from the affair the OP had.

 

I never said the OP shouldn't get closure. I think I implied I'm glad she did; she needs it. Did she feel put upon by seeing them outside their house? Obviously; it's got to hurt to see the man you thought loved you, choosing someone else. I get it. Do I understand the ball of emotion that exploded and caused her to blurt it out? Absolutely. I'm sure I've done even worse.

 

I get that OPs here need to be cheered on. There are plenty of people here doing that. I was commenting on the part that came afterward, here, when she was getting 'you go girls' for doing what she 'needed' to do. No mention from anyone about how the BW was affected (although some did question her choice of how she handled it). The OM? I could care less; he deserves whatever he gets for seducing OP.

 

I know this thread isn't for moralizing or high horses. I know it's for supporting WS's. And she's getting that. I just wish that sometimes, someone would comment on the other victims in the situations.

[jwi71]

 

I think i got jumped on here because a lot of people didn't buy the staging idea, and saw me as the sole cause. I'm afraid after sober reflection and considering the coincidence option and talking to friends, I remain convinced it was staged.

 

This is the crux of the issue I agree.

Its very hard, for me - on the outside - , to see the event as staged.

Their driveway, their car, they weren't there on your outbound trip, they "know" your routine and you were the one who initiated the contact.

 

And staged or not, YOU reacted. They don't control you - you do.

 

What's to prevent them from staging this again? Or in the grocery store or wherever?

 

My advice, staged or not, DON'T react. If she is trying to get a reaction from you, deny her that pleasure. You want to "get her goat"...then drive her stark raving mad by NOT REACTING. Its your choice to react or not.

 

This means his BS or XMM wanted to be seen by me together, which is a confrontation too. I believe she wanted to confront me, and really this was for the best. Things would have seethed otherwise. For all of us

.

 

Its statements like this which leave me scratching my head. They ARE MARRIED and will naturally be seen together. I do think FO has nailed the ego-centric aspect here - its NOT always about you WW. IF you see them in the driveway again - would that be staged? Are you implying this was the first time you have seen them in public together?

 

See where I'm going?

 

I'm not sure you are over this A.

 

I'm not sure this was the "closure" you seek - meaning another one is just waiting to happen. And when, not if, that opportunity arises, turn and walk. And if it does happen, then I would hope you would realize that all is not "done" with you pertaining to the emotional fallout of this A.

[Hazyhead]

I was referring to someone congratulating OP for confronting a BETRAYED wife, by shouting out loud, in front of the betrayed wife's house, that her husband didn't love her. In public. As if the BW hadn't suffered enough already.

 

Is the OP suffering? Of course she is; that's what happens when you have an affair - someone ends up suffering. I just believe that there are a lot of ways someone can get closure, that don't involve bringing the BW down even further and giving her even more pain than she's already received from the affair the OP had.

 

I never said the OP shouldn't get closure. I think I implied I'm glad she did; she needs it. Did she feel put upon by seeing them outside their house? Obviously; it's got to hurt to see the man you thought loved you, choosing someone else. I get it. Do I understand the ball of emotion that exploded and caused her to blurt it out? Absolutely. I'm sure I've done even worse.

 

I get that OPs here need to be cheered on. There are plenty of people here doing that. I was commenting on the part that came afterward, here, when she was getting 'you go girls' for doing what she 'needed' to do. No mention from anyone about how the BW was affected (although some did question her choice of how she handled it). The OM? I could care less; he deserves whatever he gets for seducing OP.

 

I know this thread isn't for moralizing or high horses. I know it's for supporting WS's. And she's getting that. I just wish that sometimes, someone would comment on the other victims in the situations.

 

Again, I don't think supporting someone through something painful necessarily is the same thing as cheering them on. Nor, do I not see how painful it must be for the BS either, who is dealing with a situation brought to her by those who had the affair. I think you're generalising about all OPs, that they don't care about the damage that is caused, which is more often than not far from the truth. In this thread I have also read how hard it must have been for the BS, and I think WW recognises that, but the BS is not here asking for advice and support, WW is. I'm sorry I was overly critical of you (outburst of my own) but I think you would find threads in this forum where the BS is supported if you looked.

[turnera]

Not meaning to offend people, but to understand, and share observations. Just like everyone else.

[wheelwright]

I was referring to someone congratulating OP for confronting a BETRAYED wife, by shouting out loud, in front of the betrayed wife's house, that her husband didn't love her. In public. As if the BW hadn't suffered enough already.

 

 

I didn't shout that. I don't even know if it's true. (Despite this being something he, to my surprise, did tell me). I said that 'he told me he loved me', which sounds pathetic, but not as pathetic as what you are reporting.

 

I wonder if all your analysis is similarly skewed?

 

I repeat, I understand why this seems uncalled for to you and others, and I wish it hadn't come to that.

 

This episode was about my needs, which conflicted with what you perceive hers to be.

[wheelwright]

This is the crux of the issue I agree.

Its very hard, for me - on the outside - , to see the event as staged.

Their driveway, their car, they weren't there on your outbound trip, they "know" your routine and you were the one who initiated the contact.

 

 

Not on their drive, street parking.

 

And yes! I'm pretty sure car was there on my outbound trip at 8.55, and there again on return at 9.30ish. I can't help but notice his larger than average brightly coloured car on these journeys. Or its absence.

 

Coincidence even less likely now, I suppose.

 

Thanks for helping me in the staging idea!

[Spark1111]

Oh, Wheelwright, I feel your pain.

 

You want validation for the things you were told. You want not to be perceived as the total bad guy in the triangle now that they have reconciled. You want him? her? to know he told you were loved; that you are not some wanton homewrecker.

 

I get it.

 

All evolved BSs do.

 

I wanted her (the OW) on some level to know I loved the man too.

 

We went through some horrible times in our marriage where I questioned if I loved him; or more importantly, the man he became just prior to his affair when he emotionally distanced himself, shut down, and stopped meeting my needs.

 

I wanted her to know I did and have walked through fire for him; wasn't here for his paycheck, status quo or raising the children. I had to let that go.

 

But he lied, to her, then to me, then to her, then to me, but mostly to himself.

 

Staring at all this pain he caused, he continued to take the easy way out. He continued to tell everyone just what they wanted to hear to make the mess go away; to let everyone down gently so he wouldn't have to face the true consequences of breaking the heart's of two women.

 

Very cowardly, and in time I told him so. I've known him for a lifetime and I saw through him. She did not.

 

And so, I think the greater damage was done to her, because two years later, she STILL believes his lies during the affair; she still does not realize all he was trying to do was avoid conflict with HER at then end.

 

See your fMM for what he truly is/was: a cliche.

 

Let it go.