Here I am again or closure?

[Spark1111]

Not on their drive, street parking.

 

And yes! I'm pretty sure car was there on my outbound trip at 8.55, and there again on return at 9.30ish. I can't help but notice his larger than average brightly coloured car on these journeys. Or its absence.

 

Coincidence even less likely now, I suppose.

 

Thanks for helping me in the staging idea!

 

So stop being a part of their reconciliation drama! They are now united against you and any continued contact whether you be innocently walking or whatever, past their house.

 

They are creating boundaries to their relationship, whether intentional or not, to ensure there is NO Contact with you.

 

Can you change your route?

[wheelwright]

My advice, staged or not, DON'T react. If she is trying to get a reaction from you, deny her that pleasure. You want to "get her goat"...then drive her stark raving mad by NOT REACTING. Its your choice to react or not.

 

 

I'm not sure this was the "closure" you seek - meaning another one is just waiting to happen. And when, not if, that opportunity arises, turn and walk. And if it does happen, then I would hope you would realize that all is not "done" with you pertaining to the emotional fallout of this A.

 

If either of them wishes to talk to me, I will oblige, unless they are abusive.

 

I will not confront them again.

 

She said she wants me to p*** off, and I'm happy with that too now.

 

Or do you think I still harbour a need for further confrontation on the basis that you find it hard to imagine it was staged and that means I have ego issues?

 

I do not wish to be the centre of their world. She loves him she now says, he does not acknowledge his love for me when challenged, thereby degrading it and himself (or indicating it was a lie). There was a time last week when that made me hurt and angry, but I accept it now. It is perfectly clear to me that from this point on I should not, will not, need not have anything to do with them.

 

I'm sure they feel the same way back. And if not, then I will soon see.

 

I have the answers I needed.

[wheelwright]

So stop being a part of their reconciliation drama! They are now united against you and any continued contact whether you be innocently walking or whatever, past their house.

 

They are creating boundaries to their relationship, whether intentional or not, to ensure there is NO Contact with you.

 

Can you change your route?

 

I understand what you say about boundaries Spark. This occurred in part because of my confusion after 3 weeks ago xMM sent me a text saying he loves me, but not providing closure about his circumstances. After 10 months NC, and in response to a text I sent to him saying my M was over.

 

And then 2 weeks later denied he loved me in front of his W.

 

You can perhaps see how my previous respect for their boundaries got damaged.

 

I agree they are united against me. I won't challenge that again.

 

TBH the route shouldn't be too much of a problem - there have been very few chance meetings over 11 months. I bumped into her a couple of times and she ignored me. He drove by once last year. That's it.

 

That's also why this was STAGED. It's not like we normally bump into each other.

[jwi71]

If either of them wishes to talk to me, I will oblige, unless they are abusive.

 

I will not confront them again.

 

She said she wants me to p*** off, and I'm happy with that too now.

 

Or do you think I still harbour a need for further confrontation on the basis that you find it hard to imagine it was staged and that means I have ego issues?

 

I do not wish to be the centre of their world. She loves him she now says, he does not acknowledge his love for me when challenged, thereby degrading it and himself (or indicating it was a lie). There was a time last week when that made me hurt and angry, but I accept it now. It is perfectly clear to me that from this point on I should not, will not, need not have anything to do with them.

 

I'm sure they feel the same way back. And if not, then I will soon see.

 

I have the answers I needed.

 

What I don't understand is you already had your answer - he choose his W.

 

So why the need to yell "He told me I loved me"? Why did YOU need to say that? What was your specific intent in saying that? How did THAT bring you closure?

 

Answer: Because he denies it to her. And you know this how? Because you are STILL involved. That's why and that's how.

And this bothers you WHY?

 

Anger is sadness turned outward.

 

You, to me, are still involved. Still hurting and angry HE CHOOSE HER.

 

Its an ego thing. Its not about his feelings for you or anything else...its about NOT BEING CHOSEN.

 

Hence your confrontation. This isnt closure. Its deep sadness at rejection.

By him. Its all about self worth to me.

 

And because THAT has NOT been addressed, another explosion is waiting to happen. And YOU will create it.

 

My views of course. I would suggest IC...but maybe you already are. If so, bring this post up to your IC. If not, consider this a good reason to go...

 

And...re-read our little talk tomorrow. Do you seem angry (sad)?

Think about it--tomorrow.

[wheelwright]

Oh, Wheelwright, I feel your pain.

 

You want validation for the things you were told. You want not to be perceived as the total bad guy in the triangle now that they have reconciled. You want him? her? to know he told you were loved; that you are not some wanton homewrecker.

 

I get it.

 

All evolved BSs do.

 

I wanted her (the OW) on some level to know I loved the man too.

 

We went through some horrible times in our marriage where I questioned if I loved him; or more importantly, the man he became just prior to his affair when he emotionally distanced himself, shut down, and stopped meeting my needs.

 

I wanted her to know I did and have walked through fire for him; wasn't here for his paycheck, status quo or raising the children. I had to let that go.

 

But he lied, to her, then to me, then to her, then to me, but mostly to himself.

 

Staring at all this pain he caused, he continued to take the easy way out. He continued to tell everyone just what they wanted to hear to make the mess go away; to let everyone down gently so he wouldn't have to face the true consequences of breaking the heart's of two women.

 

Very cowardly, and in time I told him so. I've known him for a lifetime and I saw through him. She did not.

 

And so, I think the greater damage was done to her, because two years later, she STILL believes his lies during the affair; she still does not realize all he was trying to do was avoid conflict with HER at then end.

 

See your fMM for what he truly is/was: a cliche.

 

Let it go.

 

I understand what you say about conflict avoidance - yes it explains some things.

 

I appreciated your post - you've got the bigger picture and keep some heart for all involved.

 

But I'm not sure about the hint that I should think all he said in the A to have been untrue, and merely conflict avoidance. Indeed, he said a lot of things to me at the beginning which were quite the opposite.

 

I think he was more truthful than most people give him credit for. He was truly conflicted during the A. And is perhaps now, perhaps not. He knows he wants to stay with his wife.

 

He should have seen me to provide closure after DDay. I wish you had got closure from your H's AP.

 

I bet xMM's W felt good telling me she loved her H. It's nice to hear about that from your perspective, and to see that she would have got something positive out of the confrontation if she's anything like you.

 

We both needed it. I to let him go, her to let me know.

[califnan]

Wheel,

 

I have been one who has shown more compassion for your confrontation, in that it was a one time, shortlived exchange - and with a few vital sentences of importance to you.

 

But I do want you to know that loving another woman's husband does not give you any rights .. As you have mentioned previously.

 

When two are married, the two belong to each other - as do their bodies. Any outsider who comes along and attaches themselves to a married person out of attraction and finally a so-called "love", that person is as a thief in the night.

 

And as for your husband, he is a real Gem.. Hold onto him and know your priorities..

[wheelwright]

What I don't understand is you already had your answer - he choose his W.

 

So why the need to yell "He told me I loved me"? Why did YOU need to say that? What was your specific intent in saying that? How did THAT bring you closure?

 

Answer: Because he denies it to her. And you know this how? Because you are STILL involved. That's why and that's how.

And this bothers you WHY?

 

Anger is sadness turned outward.

 

You, to me, are still involved. Still hurting and angry HE CHOOSE HER.

 

Its an ego thing. Its not about his feelings for you or anything else...its about NOT BEING CHOSEN.

 

Hence your confrontation. This isnt closure. Its deep sadness at rejection.

By him. Its all about self worth to me.

 

And because THAT has NOT been addressed, another explosion is waiting to happen. And YOU will create it.

 

My views of course. I would suggest IC...but maybe you already are. If so, bring this post up to your IC. If not, consider this a good reason to go...

 

And...re-read our little talk tomorrow. Do you seem angry (sad)?

Think about it--tomorrow.

 

I felt a sadness that he did not choose love when that was how I perceived it. I was always prepared that he may well stay with his W and saw that as his choice. Dealing with that sadness was one thing. A normal kind of heartbreak to go through. This didn't confuse me though it did hurt. I learnt a long time ago that this choice of his is no reflection of my self-worth. People do and say things mostly because of their own issues. His choice was about him. Yes it made me sad, but it did not make me confront anyone. It made me protect his M by refusing to continue the A while they were in reconciliation before DDay. If confrontation had been my need then, then I might agree with your post.

 

Dealing with not knowing his choice after DDay (this was left in the air after our last conversations), not knowing if they loved one another, with the blanking in the street instead of promises I had been given he would explain, with the recent text which renewed an urgency I had about closure, that he could lie either in his text or in front of his W - one has to be a lie -, about the confusion these lies brought me and the refusal for him to deal with it. This is what made me hurt. I needed a lot of clarification after all this. And I wasn't going to get it by just walking by.

 

I needed to say it because what he was doing was not fair to me. I wanted him to know that his unfairness wasn't something I was going to ignore. I wanted a reaction - I wanted to be told the things I needed to hear and not to sit around musing about it anymore. There is some ego in that, but not about the rejection. Because I deserved better treatment. I deserved closure.

 

I deserved more respect, which ironically his W would know if she knew there had been love involved.

 

It wasn't his behaviour in not choosing me that led to this, but his behaviour after that.

 

And I would prefer it if you would couch your suppositions about my feelings and motivations as questions.

 

Perhaps you are arrogant? Motivated by ego in your response? Even as questions these kinds of comments stink. Honestly, I don't know why I am replying. You are just baiting me.

[PhoenixRise]

WW

 

In your OP you stated that you broke NC after 10 months to tell MM that your marriage was over, you loved him, and you said you had hoped you could rekindle your relationship with him.

 

He told you the feelings were never in question. THEN he told you to seek support from your friends and family. He let you know he could not/ would not be there for you. AND when you asked about his status/marriage, he ignored you. Re-establishing the NC that you broke.

 

 

You posted that you wanted to tell his wife that he said he loved you....then the day after you posted this, you got the opportunity to do just that.

 

 

Did they stage it? Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. We can only speculate and you don't know for sure. Maybe the wife was thinking that you stroll down the street in front of her house everyday to rub the fact that you had an affair with her husband in her face. I'm sure she could point to a lot of "evidence" that this is true even if this is really not your intention. It is all about perception.

 

I hope this whole episode really is closure for you and that you can move on and find clarity and peace in your life.

 

You said in your OP that MM would stay in his marriage and that YOU would stay in your marriage in spite of the fact that you love each other.

 

I will say that MM's choices don't have to dictate yours. Your ethics are your ethics and your choices are your choices. Nothing is making you stay in a marriage when you love somebody else. Either you live honestly or you don't. That is on you alone.

[jwi71]

Yes!

Today xMM and his W staged a meeting. I have to walk past their house on the school run. They were both in his car, and got out when I walked by on my way back. They hadn't just driven up. They were waiting for me. They must see me walk by the same time every day.

 

So I shout out 'I want to talk to you - either of you.' They ignore me. So I shout out - 'He said he loved me. You said you'd never loved him' - sorry if folks think that was wrong, but I am beyond that now. Anyway, they staged it, they called this shot in a way.

 

So she comes over and says she never said that she didn't love him. She had always loved him. (She was drunk when she told me this, so perhaps doesn't remember) but I feel a lot better knowing that she loves him. Things make more sense that way.

 

Then she tells me 'I don't care how f***** up you are. P*** off and leave us alone.' (My H had said about me being f***** up in the confrontation last week).

 

I think I can let go now.

 

And Bent - this is not about drama. it is about closure. I am not at all attracted to this sort of thing. I hate it. But this is all necessary for me and my H.

 

And on the up side, I can see weasel in xMM now. And my H seems to be happy to wait until this idea takes a firm enough grip to make me get over xMM. And he is on MY side to the point it makes me want to cry.

 

And thanks everyone for reminding me to think about the kids.

 

And right now, I have so much respect for my H, and so little for xMM that the tide is finally turning in my heart. It really isn't about being second choice. It is about the change of emotion that is absolutely necessary if we are to stay together. And I needed closure for that to happen.

 

It is so much easier to let xMM go knowing his W loves him. It also means I have to feel more guilty about the A.

 

Perhaps in the end this A will turn out to have woken up everyone to see who they really love. My H needed to wake up, his BS also. And through all this suffering, we can evolve.

 

That's not to say I recommend As. It has been a terrible time in my life.

 

Dealing with not knowing his choice after DDay (this was left in the air after our last conversations), not knowing if they loved one another, with the blanking in the street instead of promises I had been given he would explain, with the recent text which renewed an urgency I had about closure, that he could lie either in his text or in front of his W - one has to be a lie -, about the confusion these lies brought me and the refusal for him to deal with it. This is what made me hurt. I needed a lot of clarification after all this. And I wasn't going to get it by just walking by.

 

Huh? After 10 months of NC and them NOT getting D you still didn't know his choice? How could you not know his choice?

 

Oh...he sent a text hoping to reignite the A. Typical MOM behavior.

 

You're reaction is atypical though - I'm sure he didn't expect the shouting bunny boiler routine in his front yard. And I am using your term shout - which is what you said you did after they ignored you in the street.

 

I needed to say it because what he was doing was not fair to me. I wanted him to know that his unfairness wasn't something I was going to ignore.

What was unfair to you again?

What injury did he inflict that required you to "shout" at his W? Because in your earlier post...SHE came over and not HIM.

What I want you to consider is-this isn't over yet. You are STILL attached - and lots of misplaced anger.

 

You are coming across as bitter and angry at not being chosen.

 

I wanted a reaction - I wanted to be told the things I needed to hear and not to sit around musing about it anymore.

Finally. For 10 months you wondered if he loved you. Wondering if he duped you or not. Wanted him to love you MORE than his W. And then he got your hopes up with that text after crushing them in NC. And that set you back to square one - shouting at his W that he loved you.

 

What reaction did you want and from whom? Because as far as I can tell, you didn't address HIM, only HER during your outburst.

 

There is some ego in that, but not about the rejection. Because I deserved better treatment. I deserved closure.

Now what did you expect from an A?

Maybe something for you to think about...what treatment was "bad"...what would have been better? Maybe choosing you?

I deserved more respect, which ironically his W would know if she knew there had been love involved.

How does telling his W get you more respect? And from whom?

 

It wasn't his behaviour in not choosing me that led to this, but his behaviour after that.

What behavior? the NC? the "reignite the A text"?

What behavior...

 

And I would prefer it if you would couch your suppositions about my feelings and motivations as questions.

 

Perhaps you are arrogant? Motivated by ego in your response? Even as questions these kinds of comments stink. Honestly, I don't know why I am replying. You are just baiting me.

Bait? No...lead you down a thought process? Yes.

I have been respectful to you, I'd appreciate the same. If you feel attacked, say so and/or report me. Or ignore. Or simply say "go away" and I'll not reply to you again.

[PhoenixRise]

Huh? After 10 months of NC and them NOT getting D you still didn't know his choice? How could you not know his choice?

 

Oh...he sent a text hoping to reignite the A. Typical MOM behavior.

You're reaction is atypical though - I'm sure he didn't expect the shouting bunny boiler routine in his front yard. And I am using your term shout - which is what you said you did after they ignored you in the street.

 

.

 

 

No. According to the OP Wheelwright was the one who broke NC, sending a text to MOM to let him know her marriage was over and hoping to rekindle the relationship.

 

He told her the feelings were never in question. Then he told her to get her support from her friends and family. The he went NC again and ignored her questions about his status/marriage.

[jwi71]

No. According to the OP Wheelwright was the one who broke NC, sending a text to MOM to let him know her marriage was over and hoping to rekindle the relationship.

 

He told her the feelings were never in question. Then he told her to get her support from her friends and family. The he went NC again and ignored her questions about his status/marriage.

 

You're right. I missed that.

 

Wow oh wow. I have been wasting my digital breath here...she broke NC and pounced on the W as a jilted bitter OW.

 

egads. Now I feel dumb.

[pureinheart]

I was referring to someone congratulating OP for confronting a BETRAYED wife, by shouting out loud, in front of the betrayed wife's house, that her husband didn't love her. In public. As if the BW hadn't suffered enough already.

 

Is the OP suffering? Of course she is; that's what happens when you have an affair - someone ends up suffering. I just believe that there are a lot of ways someone can get closure, that don't involve bringing the BW down even further and giving her even more pain than she's already received from the affair the OP had.

 

I never said the OP shouldn't get closure. I think I implied I'm glad she did; she needs it. Did she feel put upon by seeing them outside their house? Obviously; it's got to hurt to see the man you thought loved you, choosing someone else. I get it. Do I understand the ball of emotion that exploded and caused her to blurt it out? Absolutely. I'm sure I've done even worse.

 

I get that OPs here need to be cheered on. There are plenty of people here doing that. I was commenting on the part that came afterward, here, when she was getting 'you go girls' for doing what she 'needed' to do. No mention from anyone about how the BW was affected (although some did question her choice of how she handled it). The OM? I could care less; he deserves whatever he gets for seducing OP.

 

I know this thread isn't for moralizing or high horses. I know it's for supporting WS's. And she's getting that. I just wish that sometimes, someone would comment on the other victims in the situations.

 

Hi T,

 

I was happy for WW's confrontation, although not for the reasons you might think.

 

1) I believe what WW said about the staging

2) In this situation I really believe it needed to come out

3) WW got closure

4) Have participated in past threads that WW has started and know where she's coming from, she's not vindictive and has just been through a lot, they all have

 

Want to add I bolded the you go girl because another poster was thinking it...I ALWAYS find that interesting when the exact same words are used no matter what they are...it was NOT meant to demean the BS in anyway shape or form.

 

I could tell in other threads that WW was quite passive in a lot of things concerning this A, and really think it was extremely immature to stage what they did. I thought it was great to see her stand up like that.

 

Ok, this is what I truly do not understand and possibly should start a thread in the "Questions and Answers" forum.

 

LS divided the Infidelity forum and the OM/OW forum possibly for this very reason: To let BS's and OM/OW say what they need to without offending the other.

 

I would never go to the Infidelity forum (and never have) and reply to a post that is a rant/venting of a BS...EVEN if the BS is bashing OW/OM relentlessly because that is their forum to vent. ALSO I would not tell them to leave that slimmy, sleeze bag, etc. WS if they chose to stay in the M and tell them how "sorry" they are for staying..."hey with my experience I knew they were all cheating slimballs so you deserve what you get sorta thing, you knew what you were marrying so stop whinning".

 

There is a lot of that in this forum, I mean for real...what part of OM/OW discussion about what your going through is not understood?

 

T, it has actually become abusive and healthy, and that is not the way the originator of this site had intended.

 

It's about dealing with people where THEY are at and not where you or I want them to be. All sorts of excuses are used in this forum to abuse others and I think it's sick...I am not saying you are sick, although there are some...and yes this is the internet...BUT regardless it does not give anyone the right to be rude or abusive.

Edited May 20, 2010 by pureinheart

[pureinheart]

You're right. I missed that.

 

Wow oh wow. I have been wasting my digital breath here...she broke NC and pounced on the W as a jilted bitter OW.

 

egads. Now I feel dumb.

 

No JW, if I remember correctly, MOM sent her a text 3 weeks prior saying he still loved her...don't hold me to this

[jwi71]

No JW, if I remember correctly, MOM sent her a text 3 weeks prior saying he still loved her...don't hold me to this

 

No darling...we read it wrong...and PR got it right.

 

I quote from WW's OP on this thread:

 

H and I decided to split after 11 months trying, and his anger increased. I texted xMM to tell him I still loved him and my M was over. He texted back that the love was never in question and that he thinks about me every minute of every day. I felt maybe we could be together after this (perhaps foolishly).

 

She split with H and tried to go to the MOM who told her to bug off.

In a rage, she STARTED the shouting match at the W - the next day nonetheless.

The whole staging bit is not true. She sought them out.

 

I missed it and wasted MY time trying to help. I got the jilted OW part towards the end...but PR set me straight (thanks PR).

 

Yeah PiH...we got duped. I'm ticked too.

[PhoenixRise]

No JW, if I remember correctly, MOM sent her a text 3 weeks prior saying he still loved her...don't hold me to this

 

 

Pure

 

reread her original post in this thread.

 

According to the OP. She broke NC to tell him her M was over and he told her that the feelings were never at issue. So hoped to rekindle the R. Then told her to seek support from her friends and family and ignored her questions about his status/marrige and re-established NC

 

This all happened when she Broke NC, apparently 3 weeks ago.

 

WW is the one who initiated contact.

Edited May 20, 2010 by PhoenixRise

[wheelwright]

No. According to the OP Wheelwright was the one who broke NC, sending a text to MOM to let him know her marriage was over and hoping to rekindle the relationship.

 

He told her the feelings were never in question. Then he told her to get her support from her friends and family. The he went NC again and ignored her questions about his status/marriage.

 

He said 'The love was never in question. I think about you every minute of every day' to be precise.

 

How would you read that?

 

I didn't break NC. No NC had been agreed on either side. Although he may have agreed with his W to NC, which I guessed was so.

 

And he didn't go NC. This implies him sending me a courteous text requesting NC. Ignoring is not the same as establishing NC. It is confusing after the previous texts. If he had simply said he was staying with his W and not to contact him, all this wouldn't have brewed quite so strongly.

 

I did get NC text eventually two weeks after love text, but only after my H went round there. After his W was involved, and very possibly written under her guidance or direction. And yes, I know he agreed to it. But it doesn't change that it came after his W's involvement and not before.

 

Really, he should have sent me that courteous text after DDay to begin with, but never did. So NC was never explicitly in place. Or he should have been explicit after the original text.

 

You also need to remember that I had many conversations with xMM during A. Before A he told me he was planning on leaving his W after his kids were grown and finances in place.

 

Then we discussed the possibility of us getting together when his kids were grown.

 

For all I knew, this was still his plan and he was meanwhile acting on BSs instructions in fear of whatever repurcussions she stipulated. Even so I respected their decision to give me no closure and to set up NC in such a frankly callous way. For 10 months, until at 4am in turmoil in my own life, I sent a text to which I did not expect a reply.

 

If you feel my actions were equally callous, it doesn't make me feel guilty. He deserved this confrontation, even if his W didn't. As she had told me she didn't love him, and in fact I've recently heard used to say this a lot, my outburst was not designed to hurt her. I'm sorry if it did, but he will lie and say I'm making it up, so all will go well there.

 

Meanwhile, I feel a whole lot better.

 

And you can simplify my motivations to your tastes, despite my indications of many factors being involved, not least my need for closure. You can belittle my confusion and say the indications were clear. I'm afraid they weren't clear enough to me. They are now, so good. And it doesn't change the fact that I acted in response to their staged confrontation to me.

 

I am glad not ashamed that I got this opportunity.

 

I needed a conversation with him. He owed me as much. He knew that and refused it. I acted perhaps with less than good intentions, but it was about my needs at that point. My needs to be heard. My confusions to be recognised.

 

I wish I could have said it to him, without his BS present. But she got to say her piece to me, which was good all round.

[PhoenixRise]

He said 'The love was never in question. I think about you every minute of every day' to be precise.

 

How would you read that?

 

I didn't break NC. No NC had been agreed on either side. Although he may have agreed with his W to NC, which I guessed was so.

 

And he didn't go NC. This implies him sending me a courteous text requesting NC. Ignoring is not the same as establishing NC. It is confusing after the previous texts. If he had simply said he was staying with his W and not to contact him, all this wouldn't have brewed quite so strongly.

 

I did get NC text eventually two weeks after love text, but only after my H went round there. After his W was involved, and very possibly written under her guidance or direction. And yes, I know he agreed to it. But it doesn't change that it came after his W's involvement and not before.

 

Really, he should have sent me that courteous text after DDay to begin with, but never did. So NC was never explicitly in place. Or he should have been explicit after the original text.

 

You also need to remember that I had many conversations with xMM during A. Before A he told me he was planning on leaving his W after his kids were grown and finances in place.

 

Then we discussed the possibility of us getting together when his kids were grown.

 

For all I knew, this was still his plan and he was meanwhile acting on BSs instructions in fear of whatever repurcussions she stipulated. Even so I respected their decision to give me no closure and to set up NC in such a frankly callous way. For 10 months, until at 4am in turmoil in my own life, I sent a text to which I did not expect a reply.

 

If you feel my actions were equally callous, it doesn't make me feel guilty. He deserved this confrontation, even if his W didn't. As she had told me she didn't love him, and in fact I've recently heard used to say this a lot, my outburst was not designed to hurt her. I'm sorry if it did, but he will lie and say I'm making it up, so all will go well there.

 

Meanwhile, I feel a whole lot better.

 

And you can simplify my motivations to your tastes, despite my indications of many factors being involved, not least my need for closure. You can belittle my confusion and say the indications were clear. I'm afraid they weren't clear enough to me. They are now, so good. And it doesn't change the fact that I acted in response to their staged confrontation to me.

 

I am glad not ashamed that I got this opportunity.

 

I needed a conversation with him. He owed me as much. He knew that and refused it. I acted perhaps with less than good intentions, but it was about my needs at that point. My needs to be heard. My confusions to be recognised.

 

I wish I could have said it to him, without his BS present. But she got to say her piece to me, which was good all round.

 

 

WW

 

The man didn't send you so much as a smoke signal for 10 months. If you don't want to consider that NC......

 

He acknowledged that he loved you. He also told you to get your support from somewhere else. Why do YOU think he told you this?

 

 

It is like you focused in on the parts of what he said that fit what you wanted to hear "The love was never at question, and I think of you every day"

 

AND ignored or glossed over what you didn't want to hear "Get your support from your friends and family"

 

 

I didn't say your actions were callous. I am saying you started this whole thing. You were having turmoil in your own life, so you opened up a can a worms that brought more turmoil into theirs.

[bentnotbroken]

WW, the only person who owes you anything is you. He didn't owe you a courtesy email to say we are NC. Until you figure that out the drama will remain.

[Snowflower]

I did get NC text eventually two weeks after love text, but only after my H went round there. After his W was involved, and very possibly written under her guidance or direction. And yes, I know he agreed to it. But it doesn't change that it came after his W's involvement and not before.

 

-snip-

 

Then we discussed the possibility of us getting together when his kids were grown.

 

For all I knew, this was still his plan and he was meanwhile acting on BSs instructions in fear of whatever repurcussions she stipulated. Even so I respected their decision to give me no closure and to set up NC in such a frankly callous way. For 10 months, until at 4am in turmoil in my own life, I sent a text to which I did not expect a reply.

 

WW, you and I have had some conversations previously about your MM and his BW and the fact that she said she had never loved him. I could rather understand why you felt he was 'available' in a way.

 

I'm going to ask you something and please don't take this as me bashing you in any way because I am really curious about your answer...and I think it might be something you might want to think about as well. I bolded the pertinent parts of your post above.

 

WW, you seem stuck on the fact that it was his W who was insisting on the NC...and that your MM might have been going along with this just to placate her. I could be wrong, but it's how it seems to me.

 

Maybe the MM is doing just this...placating his wife when he really wants to have a relationship with you. But if this is indeed true, don't you consider him to be a spineless wimp for placating his wife and not being true to his feelings for you?

 

I am asking this because it seems like the BS who was never considered before d-day suddenly becomes all powerful after d-day in the eyes of the AP and often the MP.

 

Do you really think the BW is all that powerful that she could stop her H from communicating with you?

 

BTW, I'm not trying to make you feel bad. I just want you to consider that it might not be the BW who has started the NC...but the MM...unless he is just completely spineless.

 

((Take care of yourself, WW. ))

[jthorne]

*sigh*. I'm so confused why this drama is still going on.

What does it matter if anything was staged or not?

What does it matter who, what or why NC was broken?

The fact is, MM has chosen his W, and his W has chosen him.

Time for some healing.

What's left to discuss?

[ladydesigner]

Wheelwright I believe you are on your way to healing and that this was just another step in the process. Don't look back only forward and onward. New days are ahead for all of us experiencing this path of healing.

[califnan]

Thanks for coming back Myrtle .. There are a few others who have disappeared as well.. and I wish they would return.

[wheelwright]

Hi T,

 

I was happy for WW's confrontation, although not for the reasons you might think.

 

1) I believe what WW said about the staging

2) In this situation I really believe it needed to come out

3) WW got closure

4) Have participated in past threads that WW has started and know where she's coming from, she's not vindictive and has just been through a lot, they all have

 

Want to add I bolded the you go girl because another poster was thinking it...I ALWAYS find that interesting when the exact same words are used no matter what they are...it was NOT meant to demean the BS in anyway shape or form.

 

I could tell in other threads that WW was quite passive in a lot of things concerning this A, and really think it was extremely immature to stage what they did. I thought it was great to see her stand up like that.

 

...and yes this is the internet...BUT regardless it does not give anyone the right to be rude or abusive.

 

Thank you Pure for bothering to read what I write. (Some people have been very selective, but that's what they are accusing me of hey?) For caring enough to write this response. I so needed your measured response here.

 

And for acknowledging my previously passive stance, which my H agrees with you on. He is in support of what I did here.

 

Snowflower,

 

I appreciate the gentle tone of your post. It shows that some come here to work things out. And it shows compassion for what now is fairly obvious pain I feel.

 

I think xMM stayed with his W out of his choice and his choice only. I do not think he was coerced, and I think he respected the M and his wife in ways I only understand in glimmers. I think he loves her, despite what he said to me to the contrary. I think he wanted a R with her. Chose her. It's obvious to me and has been since before DDay.

 

But I think the lack of decent closure after DDay and the recent staging and the text about NC were things he agreed to do for her, but that he wouldn't have wanted to do himself. This is partly because he told me he wanted a conversation with me after DDay, then after talking with his W it didn't happen. Partly because he was willing to come and talk to me in the heat of the moment, but after talking to his W decided he couldn't.

 

I believe this because he would know how cruel this lack of closure was for me, and I believe he would have preferred a kinder way. And I believe he thought he owed his W everything if they were to reconcile, and so didn't put his foot down. Or perhaps there was an ultimatum.

 

I believe she his BS wished to cause me pain. Because I had caused her pain. I believe that she is in his heart, and this is why he could go along with it. It was a way to show he didn't care about me, which he did want to show her.

 

I know your story and how your H behaved, and it has rung in my ears for months. I thought this was possible for my xMM too. But then I got the text about love 3 weeks ago, and it made me feel differently. If this text was true, then my explanation works. If he loves me, then how could he be cruel to me except under severe pressure? Yes, it makes him spineless in a way. But an A forces horrible decisions on us when it comes to the crunch.

 

And if he loves me but can be cruel to me of his own volition? I cannot understand the motive. Not to say it isn't true. Perhaps in being cruel he proves to himself he doesn't love.

 

If it was a lie, then I am not sure of who I am dealing with here anymore. What a wierd lie to send to your xAP. He would have to be a psychopath.

 

I don't know which story is true. And none reflects on him very well. So I can move on.

 

I feel after this that it is a moral obligation to give closure to someone who has been in love with you. Just as it is a moral obligation to disclose infidelity.

 

In a way this treatment is the decision in proof. Whether he did it for her or himself, under pressure or with choice.

 

I believe he did it under pressure. Then again, I believe he loved me. I am probably deluded.

[wheelwright]

No. According to the OP Wheelwright was the one who broke NC, sending a text to MOM to let him know her marriage was over and hoping to rekindle the relationship.

 

He told her the feelings were never in question. Then he told her to get her support from her friends and family. The he went NC again and ignored her questions about his status/marriage.

 

Again here my motivations are not understood. PR please listen to me.

 

My original text to him said something like:

 

'My M is over. I still love you. I need to hear something from you to help me move on. Was it just a game to you?'

 

This really was not an attempt to rekindle, as you see.

 

Then he sent

 

I think about you every minute of every day etc.

 

WTF? Move on?

 

No. His text did all the rekindling here. He made it clear his feelings were still present now. He didn't need to do this if he wanted to be nice. I was asking for:

 

'I had feelings for you but my M is more important. It wasn't a game, but it's over.'

 

Are you going to listen to me yet PR?

Edited May 20, 2010 by wheelwright
bold

[GreenEyedLady]

I feel after this that it is a moral obligation to give closure to someone who has been in love with you. Just as it is a moral obligation to disclose infidelity.

 

Then again, I believe he loved me. I am probably deluded.

 

It seems funny that you pick and choose your moral obligations and one is disclosing infidelity, but abstaining from participating in it is not?

 

You still haven't chosen your H. I doubt you showed him this thread because you admitted you didn't love him.

 

Do you realize here that you make excuses for all of your actions? You did this because he did that.

 

And this isn't tough love. This is just truth. And for all of those who can't handle the truth, why don't you put everyone who you don't want to hear from on ignore.

 

I earned my stripes here. And I'm not going anywhere. I'm here to help, and help does not equal coddling or sugar-coating.

 

GEL