Is an HJ considered adultery?

[sruben]

I asked this question in my thread, but only got responses from those following that particular thread, so thought I'd post it as a new topic.

 

What do you all think? Especially the (f)WW's? Does a "hand job" qualify as adultery if a woman is stroking a guy she's not married to?

 

My wife says she's never had intercourse with anyone she wasn't married to, that that is the "line [she] won't cross". However, I found out last night that she's basically stroked us all off (me, 2 previous H's and a BF before that) before she married us. I don't know if that means she'd consider stroking off an EAP and it being no big deal, so I thought some of the ladies in this forum could tell me how you feel about that?

[sb129]

It depends if the HJ is done to someone while the woman is married to someone ELSE.

 

Then its definitely "cheating" in my eyes.

 

My H would definitely consider me giving someone else a HJ while we are married a dealbreaker.

[FarmGirl]

If my guy got a HJ from someone while we were together the fury of the red head would be unleashed on him.

 

Or in more polite terms...yes a HJ = cheating. It's a sexual act. You don't do sex acts with other people while in a relationship with someone w/o your SO's permission.

[CollectiveVelvet]

Are you saying that your w/ gave her previous Hs hand jobs? Of that she rounded you all up and gave you hand jobs in the same time frame?

[sruben]

Are you saying that your w/ gave her previous Hs hand jobs? Of that she rounded you all up and gave you hand jobs in the same time frame?

 

My W gave all her H's (including me) HJ's before marrying us, as well as the BF before H#1.

[CollectiveVelvet]

My W gave all her H's (including me) HJ's before marrying us, as well as the BF before H#1.

 

This does not even remotely qualify as adultery.

[sruben]

Would your wife consider you stroking someone else's vagina while you are still married adultery? I know I sure would.

 

If you can't do it in front of your spouse, don't do it at all.

 

I'm sure she would! That's what I was talking about a possible double-standard. The only thing I don't know is if she's ever given anyone an HJ while married to me.

 

BTW, when I asked her about specific men (I asked at different times), she said something like "Him? Ewww!" I know what one looks like, but have only seen a brother of the other one (that I suspect from last summer) -- the brother wasn't a bad-looking guy, certainly don't think most gals would go "Ewww!" over, and I have to believe the guy looks somewhat like his brother. Doth milady protest too much? Methinks...

[sruben]

This does not even remotely qualify as adultery.

 

What if she gave H#2 HJ's before divorce with H#1 was final? Seems to me like, from a legal perspective, it is. Not that they care in this state...

[CollectiveVelvet]

What if she gave H#2 HJ's before divorce with H#1 was final? Seems to me like, from a legal perspective, it is. Not that they care in this state...

 

If they were already split IMO it's not adultery.

[sruben]

If they were already split IMO it's not adultery.

 

She said that H#1 having a girlfriend (she's assuming there was SF there) before they were divorced but after they split was adultery!

 

Double standard, I guess.

[CollectiveVelvet]

She said that H#1 having a girlfriend (she's assuming there was SF there) before they were divorced but after they split was adultery!

 

Double standard, I guess.

 

OP is english your first language?

[SarahRose]

Who cares?

 

Don't you two have anything else better to talk about?

[sruben]

I'm confused what your W's sexual past has to do with the present.

 

If she thinks that anything less than full intercourse is not morally wrong, that means she has no problem doing that...even if she's presently married (to me, in this case). Which means that there is no boundary to stop her from having an affair in the present. When I spoke with her last night about boundaries, she didn't state any...just referred to the Bible without stating what those boundaries are.

 

And if she thinks that she can be married to me and perform any kind of sex acts on another man, I will divorce her. So then, I am trying to determine what she believes and what she is willing to do in that circumstance.

 

While she might intellectually assent that you shouldn't do certain things as a married person, I am aware that she has a weakness. Like many women, she feels guilty about saying "no" to what appears to be a polite offer...and she's heavily motivated by guilt.

 

Within a year of her going back to work after the birth of DD7, she was performing her job well and got nominated for an award...and won. Shortly thereafter, a guy who'd been instrumental in her getting that award asked if he could walk her to her car. She allowed it, and as they were making small talk, he would say things like "Yeah, I can see you in a cute little sports car" and things like that...basically making her in his image. I think he may have been carrying some of her stuff for her, too, but I don't remember. In any case, once they got to her car, he mentioned how he enjoyed talking with her, and would she join him for lunch? She accepted, but then told me about it. I trusted her fully back then, and this increased my trust of her (that she told me), but I was strong about it and told her, "This guy is pursuing you, Honey. No, I do not want you to have lunch with him!" She thanked me and sent him an email rescinding her pervious acceptance, told him that it was against her beliefs and her husband's wishes to have lunch with him and not to contact her any more. She Cc:'d her boss and her boss's boss, and that guy backpedaled so quickly it was funny!

 

Point being now...just before she quit her last job, another guy who'd made complimentary remarks about her looks a month or two earlier ended up in line in front of her at the local food vendor and he asked her if he could buy her breakfast. She initially declined, but he insisted, so she relented. She told me about that, too (so I'm not suspicious that she did anything with him), but I told her that he was now on my radar, since he's approached her twice. An hour later, I'm taking her into the emergency room for what ended up being an anxiety attack! (She thought her heart was having a problem, associated with perimenopause or something. All the testing they did on her that day and next showed no problems whatsoever with her heart).

 

WTF? Did I do something wrong? I can't see what she was so wigged about, except that there was still this issue of this out of town vendor whom I suspected during the summer of involvement with her, and she was supposed to be calling him that day to arrange for his return to do more work for her org, but we had not discussed that for weeks. A couple of weeks later she's sobbing hysterically on the bed telling me that she'll do ANYthing to be able to quit her job (not like I was FORCING her to work!). I told her, yes, please, it's not woorth it to see you in all this stress and endangering your health.

 

Was I giving in to a 3yrold tantrum again, as some here have eloquently put it?

[sruben]

Of course, every man should believe everything his wife tells him about her previous sex life. Because it's ALL true.

 

Yeah, that's the bummer about all that is that I'm only getting one side. I get along with xH#1, but DD15 doesn't think he'd discuss relationship issues with me, and xH#2, fortunately, is not anywhere in the picture. That guy was bad news, by all accounts. Glad I don't have to deal with him (no kids with her).

[sruben]

Who cares?

 

Don't you two have anything else better to talk about?

 

Evidently not.

 

But if you don't care, why did you respond to this thread?

[sruben]

Ok, I'm still confused. You suspect your W is having an affair, yet you have no evidence but a gut feeling. Since you have no evidence, and she denies anything, are you trying to decide what she's doing with this hypothetical AP?

What's the point in that? It doesn't matter what acts (or not) she's performing. Either she's cheating or she's not.

 

I just want to get a feel for what percentage of people think that a married person giving someone other than their spouse a HJ constitutes adultery (or not, as the case may be). Certainly I thiknk that it does, and I'm sure my wife would if I did that for some OW...

[sruben]

I'm sorry, but I'm still not seeing proof of an affair.

Plus, if this woman has 7 (or more kids) plus a job, I don't know when she'd have time to have an affair!

 

7 kids? Where'd you get that?

 

No, she has 3 -- two from xH#1 and 1 we have together.

 

I'm not seeing it, either (proof, that is), but I did see evidence last summer and she's never come clean about that. She's told me a lot about what she DIDN'T do, but has never told me what WAS happening. By last June, we'd kind of drifted apart emotionally due to 3 years of unresolved conflict (and I own my part in that! i was definitely guilty of hardening my heart toward her). In April, she'd finished a 20-month project successfully (and the out of town vendor had been working very closely with her for several months before that, being in town for 5 solid weeks that I know of, plus the first and last week of June). She was definitely "upping her game" in June, had a healthy glow about her, seemed enthusiastic about going to work (when she's previously been not so happy to go), spending hundreds of dollars on new clothes and makeup, talking walks to get in better shape, and not doing it for me! We had SF once that month, and it seemed more obligatory than anything else. The first Monday after the last week in June he was here, she was in deep mourning over something, wouldn't talk about it. In fact, hadn't really talked about work issues with me for several months. The fight about the finances and her denials about having an affair started then, even before I'd brought up the topic!

 

Oh, and telling me around first week of June that she "might not be wearing" her wedding ring around the house. Big sign there, but I didn't catch it until the others started following...

[carhill]

Christ, OP, I shared emotional intimacy with a female friend and it was called 'adultery'. We never even *talked* about sex, rather painful emotional issues we were both going through.

 

A 'hand job'? Stroking a penis? Semen on the acrylics? Please.... that's so far down adultery row I can't even imagine the rent, presuming she's married to you.

Edited May 17, 2010 by carhill

[sruben]

One of your posts said gave birth to DD7. I took that to read Darling Daughter #7.

 

No, I thought that meant Dear Daughter (who is now) 7 years old (I've seen things like DSD15, etc -- surely not 15th daughter!).

[sruben]

Okay, so I take it that the majority think like I do, that a married woman giving a HJ to an OM does constitute adultery (even though it is not intercourse).

 

What about passionate kissing of an OM? Is that considered adultery? Is it considered PA or just EA?

 

It's really interesting how there are so many graded variations for these terms...no simple "yes" or "no" that everone agrees on.

[carhill]

IMO, any action which de-prioritizes one's partner is inappropriate; a good litmus test is can this action (or interaction, if verbal) be performed in front of one's partner. Also, even if apparently 'innocent' and performed in full view, if the *feelings* de-prioritize the partner, it's inappropriate. That's my guideline as worked out in MC.

[sally4sara]

I'm so confused.

 

If she has been married twice before you and it is not common for folks to marry every person they've dated - I'm sure she has done more than just HJs before being with you even if it was just within her marriages.

 

What is the real issue here?

[FarmGirl]

Okay, so I take it that the majority think like I do, that a married woman giving a HJ to an OM does constitute adultery (even though it is not intercourse).

 

What about passionate kissing of an OM? Is that considered adultery? Is it considered PA or just EA?

 

It's really interesting how there are so many graded variations for these terms...no simple "yes" or "no" that everone agrees on.

 

I'm with Carhill on this one. If you can't do it in front of your SO then you have no business doing it.

 

I've had tons of kisses in the 8 years of my relationship with my SO (female & male friends) but they're on the cheek and during a hello or goodbye hug. They've never led to more, nor were assumed that they would lead to more. I was comfy with it. SO was comfy with it (I'm a full disclosure kind of gal so he was told).

 

Same with hugs and handholding...FOR the most part. Although my neighbor is very huggy/ touchy with me. It took me awhile to figure out his motives were not platonic. Sigh.

 

Passionate kisses with anyone other than your SO are off limits. That's just silly. If someone I was with was kissing on someone else, they better prepare to have their butts kicked. Ahem.

 

This can also apply to neck rubs, massages etc.

 

I think the way to judge whether something is wrong is as Carhill put it...would you do it in front of your SO & it not be hurtful to them? If yes, then by all means carry on...if no then you are treading on dangerous ground.

 

If your W passionately kissed someone other than you while married to you and you're uncomfy then you need to call her to the carpet.

 

It's not "just a kiss" if it is a passionate one.

[sruben]

I'm so confused.

 

If she has been married twice before you and it is not common for folks to marry every person they've dated - I'm sure she has done more than just HJs before being with you even if it was just within her marriages.

 

What is the real issue here?

 

The issue is that, if her only boundary that she "will not cross" is intercourse, and she doesn't consider HJ's against her morals, that leaves the door wide open for her to give any EA partner a HJ without feeling like she's comitting adultery (thus, having an affair).

 

If, while she is married to me, she gives another man HJ's, then I consider that a violation of our wedding vows.

 

Does that make sense?

[JamesM]

Question....did your wife ever give any sort of HJ or type of sexual intimacy to a man while married to a different man?

 

Have you any indication or evidence that she did anything that would be considered cheating (ie kissing or touching a man's penis) while she was married to you?

 

Were these HJs she gave to men while SHE was unmarried?

 

Why did her other marriages end? If she has been married three times (including you) and had a serious BF, then why do you assume that she is going to be married to you "until death do us part?"

 

Do you "allow" her to have any alone time with another male and not get worried that she is cheating? Why do you assume that a man who wants to pay for her breakfast is after her body? Could it be because he is simply being kind? (Answer...yes, it can be).

 

Does your wife have times throughout the day where you do not control her every activity? Do you trust her alone with other men?

 

Have YOU ever cheated on her or any other woman?

 

Thanks.