Who should be apologizing?!

[Teffy79]

So I'm getting married in two months, and I'm new here, but I've read enough to know that I'm going to be told this is a bad sign, but please hear me out.

 

My fiance has some anger issues from a bad childhood that he's working very hard to correct, but sometimes he goes on angry rants where I feel like he hates me. It leaves me feeling really bad about his feelings for me. We're in pre-marital counseling and therapy, btw.

 

That's the first part. Second, he cheated on a former fiance, which has made me uncomfortable, but I tried to get past that. A few months ago, my fears were (sort of) validated when he admitted to lying about his whereabouts on several occasions and that he was actually with a female coworker. He promised to end the friendship, and I believe he did. Since then, I've tried unsuccessfully to let go of my distrust.

 

Recently, he became reacquainted with an old female friend. Last week, he told me he had some stuff to do at home and couldn't do anything with me. On both of those nights, we ended up talking on the phone. However, yesterday, I saw that he texted this female friend on those nights to see if she wanted to have dinner. She agreed.

 

I confronted him and told him it was over; I wanted no explanation. I left the house, and he ran after me, calmly explaining that he wouldn't leave his texts and phone available if he was actually seeing her ... and he wouldn't have had time to talk to me on those nights if he was having dinner with her. He said she asks him to do things a lot; he makes the plans with her and then cancels. Newly divorced, she's just moved back to town, is depressed and doesn't have many friends. He's usually busy with me (and our wedding plans), and he doesn't have time for her but doesn't want to make her feel worse. He was apologetic for how it all looked but asked me please not to end things. He hasn't gone out with her, he says.

 

I said OK. But now that he's had time to think, he's mad. I apologized and explained why I feel the way I do. (his anger and past lying) He's now saying that he wishes I'd just left. He's unsure if i'm going to "put him through this again." I feel bad because I believe him (is that dumb?) and think I may have falsely accused him. He feels like he tries to do a lot of things to show that he cares despite the times that he rants or becomes irritable for no reason. He does do a lot and puts in more time, effort and money into the activities we do than I put in. I try to make contributions elsewhere, but he's reminded me that it doesn't stack up to his. Now he wonders what all that was for.

 

I still don't know what to believe, and if he's telling the truth, how can I apologize besides the apology I've already given?

[Jesper]

No need for you to apologize (again). All he's doing is trying to flip the situation to regain control of you, the relationship, and your emotions.

[redmelon]

Wow, this reminded me of my relationship with my ex-fiance a lot! We were also in counseling to try and handle the coupling issues that arose from a less than adequate childhood.

 

I agree with the other poster, he is trying to regain control and put you off the scent. I think it's crazy-making. He offered his phone, take him up on it immediately and without warning. I bet he won't give it to you on the spot, and if he does, I bet he won't let you keep it for long.

 

I think the behavior he admitted to is inappropriate, much less what is probably not being said. If his explantation is true, why didn't he tell you about it before all this happened since he was just trying to help a depressed friend?

 

Sounds like a huge load of crap to me. Stick with your original instinct, I say.

[Teffy79]

He did let me see the messages. He's already canceled his cell plan with me, saying I can't be trusted and that he wouldn't share a call plan with me and then cheat on that call plan. He says he didn't tell me about everything because he didn't think it was a big deal.

 

Now he sits in the other room with his phone turned all the way up texting with someone back and forth so I can hear him. Knowing I can't do a think about it.

 

I just am trying to figure out if I deserve all of this!

[Eeyore79]

I'm a firm believer in second chances... although he cheated on a former fiancee, he may not have been in love with her, or he may have matured since then. So I wouldn't worry about his past as long as he's good with you.

 

Unfortunately, he isn't being good with you. Anger issues are one thing, but taking it out on you is unacceptable. What is even more unacceptable is the fact that he told you, his fiancee, that he was busy, and then texted another woman and invited her to dinner. I don't think it's appropriate for married (or engaged) people to spend a lot of time alone with a friend of the opposite sex, much less when he's lying to you about it.

 

He's showing all the signs of cheating... contacting another woman when he's told you he's unavailable, trying to make excuses for his behaviour, turning it around on you so that he's the one who's angry about your (perfectly justified) behaviour, cancelling his cell plan so you can no longer see who he's calling or texting, etc.

 

If I were you, I'd insist on full disclosure... he must cut all contact with this woman, you must be allowed to check his phone bills and read his texts, and possibly even his email. Tell him this is the only way you can regain trust for him, and if he has nothing to hide then he won't mind. I bet he'll put up a fight though, because it sounds like he's cheating, and is repeating his past history. Perhaps you need to do some digging to find out what's actually going on?

[Green]

 

My fiance has some anger issues from a bad childhood that he's working very hard to correct, but sometimes he goes on angry rants where I feel like he hates me. ...We're in pre-marital counseling and therapy, btw.

 

he admitted to lying about his whereabouts on several occasions and that he was actually with a female coworker.

 

Recently, he became reacquainted with an old female friend. ...I saw that he texted this female friend on those nights to see if she wanted to have dinner. She agreed.

 

... He said she asks him to do things a lot; he makes the plans with her and then cancels. Newly divorced, she's just moved back to town, is depressed and doesn't have many friends.

 

...I still don't know what to believe, and if he's telling the truth, how can I apologize besides the apology I've already given?

 

I edited everything you said to the meat of the issue. Go read over what you yourself have written. This man is cheating on you and things will only get worse.

 

... He's already canceled his cell plan with me, saying I can't be trusted and that he wouldn't share a call plan with me and then cheat on that call plan. He says he didn't tell me about everything because he didn't think it was a big deal.

 

Now he sits in the other room with his phone turned all the way up texting with someone back and forth so I can hear him. Knowing I can't do a think about it.

 

I just am trying to figure out if I deserve all of this!

 

You deserve it because you put up with it. Just get him out of your life. Go complete no contact with him. I know you love him, but you need to love yourself more. This man will do this to any woman who allows him to get close.

 

He is cheating on you, and even if you don't believe that, you should know he has no respect for you and actively tries to hurt you.

[Teffy79]

Everything that everyone says makes sense. And I'm watching this from the outside, knowing that I'm probably being lied to, and it just feels awful. So why could I find it within myself to even apologize. How stupid am I?

 

I know and I understand that he's the one with the problem here, and that he never should have created an atmosphere where this was happening in the first place. It's so destructive, but I have this wedding looming over my head, and I know it's worse to end it now than it is to just get married, but I'm having such a hard time REALLY getting that. It's like I want to catch him in the middle of the act. Some text messages that he can explain away (but that are highly suspicious) aren't enough.

 

And I'm just frustrating myself.

[D-Lish]

Why is it worse to end it now?

 

He's def cheating, and he's turned this around to make you believe you have to apologize to him! Don't fall for that. It's a rouse designed to confuse you and make you feel guilty. What a manipulator!

[Teffy79]

Why is it worse to end it now?

 

He's def cheating, and he's turned this around to make you believe you have to apologize to him! Don't fall for that. It's a rouse designed to confuse you and make you feel guilty. What a manipulator!

 

 

I meant the other way around. It's better to end it now than it is to end it later. He's definitely good at manipulating people. I guess I've been one of them. I feel like he's turned it around, but I have no proof. He seemed very understanding about the entire thing and wanted to find out why i was feeling that way toward him at first. And then a day passed, and it was like WW3. He said I should have asked him about the texts instead of immediately saying that we're finished. Now he says he feels like I can just do that to him at anytime, and he's got more invested here than I do.

[Green]

I meant the other way around. It's better to end it now than it is to end it later. He's definitely good at manipulating people. I guess I've been one of them. I feel like he's turned it around, but I have no proof. He seemed very understanding about the entire thing and wanted to find out why i was feeling that way toward him at first. And then a day passed, and it was like WW3. He said I should have asked him about the texts instead of immediately saying that we're finished. Now he says he feels like I can just do that to him at anytime, and he's got more invested here than I do.

 

The only proof you need is how he makes you feel. Does it really matter if he is actualy cheating or not. (which I gaurantee he has and will continue to)

 

Look its not all his fault, it takes two. As soon as you dump him and end all contact with him then its over. You can do this. You deserve better.

 

It's not just that he is a cheater... he is so in your face with it. txting, blowing you off and having dinner with some other girl, getting mad at you for getting mad at him. Seriously its a joke, you shouldn't be mad at him, just leave him.

 

You are not stupid, and this stuff can happen to anyone. Getting treated on or treated badly doesn't make you less of a person. You deserve good things.

 

If you get married all these problems will get worse. The contact with strange women, the anger, the passive agressive things.

[D-Lish]

I meant the other way around. It's better to end it now than it is to end it later. He's definitely good at manipulating people. I guess I've been one of them. I feel like he's turned it around, but I have no proof. He seemed very understanding about the entire thing and wanted to find out why i was feeling that way toward him at first. And then a day passed, and it was like WW3. He said I should have asked him about the texts instead of immediately saying that we're finished. Now he says he feels like I can just do that to him at anytime, and he's got more invested here than I do.

 

Don't underestimate the power of your instincts. If something seems off, it probably is. Only a guilty person would get so angry...

[Green]

Don't underestimate the power of your instincts. If something seems off, it probably is. Only a guilty person would get so angry...

 

Does it even matter if he is doing anything beyond what she already knows... I mean finding a txt where he agrees to have dinner with a divorced woman who is new in town and has no real friends is cheating in itself.

 

She also already knows that he makes her feel like he hates her and canceled their phone plan because he doesn't TRUST her. Also they are already in counseling

[Teffy79]

Yeah, my instincts are constantly screaming at me with him, but he is very very good with talking himself out off things (I've heard him even brag about it.) I'm constantly wondering what he's trying to hide. And I just get an all-around bad feeling. One thing I feel I have to fall back on ... my dad told me a couple of months ago, "if anything happens and you don't want to go through with this, I don't care what money I've lost on this wedding, I don't care who I have to pay back, until you say 'I do,' you do NOT have to do this if you feel it's not right." Maybe even HE senses something ...

[D-Lish]

Yeah, my instincts are constantly screaming at me with him, but he is very very good with talking himself out off things (I've heard him even brag about it.) I'm constantly wondering what he's trying to hide. And I just get an all-around bad feeling. One thing I feel I have to fall back on ... my dad told me a couple of months ago, "if anything happens and you don't want to go through with this, I don't care what money I've lost on this wedding, I don't care who I have to pay back, until you say 'I do,' you do NOT have to do this if you feel it's not right." Maybe even HE senses something ...

 

I think you have your answer then!

 

On top of what you actually do have proof of, your instincts don't lie.

 

I agree with green that the fact that he was trying to set up dinner dates with another woman behind your back is reason enough to call off the wedding.

[Teffy79]

You're right. I feel like a fool for even apologizing or for wanting him to forgive me.

[Green]

Yeah, my instincts are constantly screaming at me with him, but he is very very good with talking himself out off things (I've heard him even brag about it.) I'm constantly wondering what he's trying to hide. And I just get an all-around bad feeling. One thing I feel I have to fall back on ... my dad told me a couple of months ago, "if anything happens and you don't want to go through with this, I don't care what money I've lost on this wedding, I don't care who I have to pay back, until you say 'I do,' you do NOT have to do this if you feel it's not right." Maybe even HE senses something ...

 

Forget your instincts and just look at the facts. Leave him, you can sell the engagement ring if its worth anything and enjoy that money lol. Seriously cmon the txt was the proof, He also admitted to lying to you...

 

How has he talked himself out of anything here you are verry upset? Just because he tells you not to worry about something and you give up questioning him doesn't mean he has talked himself out of anything. You are really upset, and you should be. LEAVE HIM, SAY IT. I'M LEAVING HIM AND ENDING ALL CONTACT WITH HIM

[D-Lish]

You're right. I feel like a fool for even apologizing or for wanting him to forgive me.

 

Don't feel like a fool, he should feel like a fool! There is nothing wrong with wanting to put your faith in someone you love. A guy like this will never change.

 

He doesn't deserve you- and you deserve much better!

 

I'm really sorry this is happening in your life. Hugs to you.

[Green]

Don't feel like a fool, he should feel like a fool! There is nothing wrong with wanting to put your faith in someone you love. A guy like this will never change.

 

He doesn't deserve you- and you deserve much better!

 

I'm really sorry this is happening in your life. Hugs to you.

 

I think the key thing to remember is just because a person is treated badly doesn't mean they deserve it. She is part of her own problem, because all she has to do is leave him.

 

If a girl did this to me I would leave her flat out.

[D-Lish]

I think the key thing to remember is just because a person is treated badly doesn't mean they deserve it. She is part of her own problem, because all she has to do is leave him.

 

If a girl did this to me I would leave her flat out.

 

You never make too much sense.

[redmelon]

He changed his cell plan because YOU can't be trusted? Classic.

Now because he's decided to be mad at you, you are being subjected to even more emotionally abusive behavior. His mastery of this game will only become more intense with time. Best to leave now, and you've been given the out with wedding plans, though no amount of money is a reason to marry an abusive person!

[Teffy79]

Thanks for all the advice and encouragement, guys. It's really helping me to see what I need to see. When I got on here, I was pretty sure that I'd falsely accused him and just wanted to make it all up to him.

 

Unfortunately, I'm now at this place where one minute I think he did it, and the next minute I'm afraid that I'm mistaken. There are all these little details that could mean he's not doing anything. Other details say there's no way he's not cheating. I'm at the point right now where I want SO BADLY to believe him, but I just can't. Know what I mean?

[magda]

It would be so much easier if you could believe him! Wouldn't that be nice. I'm going through a similar thing and I just want to warn you not to get stuck looking for evidence, for facts, confirmation.

 

I trust my instincts without hesitation for strangers everyday and it has never proven me wrong. Why do we deny obvious signs about those we want to love? I don't know.

 

I try to make contributions elsewhere, but he's reminded me that it doesn't stack up to his.

Don't buy this. Your home and husband should be a haven and safe place you can recharge and be supported and respected. Don't settle for less. Nothing at all is better than something rotten. He knows on some level that he is treating you badly. The longer you put up with that the less he will think of you for allowing it.

[Teffy79]

Thanks, magda. My instincts have been wrong with him before, so I was really glad I didn't go to him with what I thought was evidence of something. But then again, there have been times that my instincts were spot on. I get to the point where I don't trust my instincts, though I know I have a crazy-bad feeling.

 

I do find myself looking for some sort of total confirmation so that I can feel 100 percent justified in saying goodbye. It's harder when there's doubt.

 

About his contributions, he's one of these people who researches the crap out of an activity for hours to make sure that every facet of it is as perfect as possible. And then he gets mad if either you don't show him the appreciation he thinks he should have, or he gets mad because you don't go about things in the same way that he does, hours and hours of planning and asking me questions about what I'd like. True, it makes it seem like he's doing it all for me to be happy. But it also seems like he's doing it for the glory, and then holding it over my head.

 

He's told me before, "It's fine if you don't give me the admiration I think I deserve. There are other people in my life who I can get that from." Then when I question him about it, he says his coworkers tell him all the time what a great job he does.

 

magda, you said you're in a similar situation. How have you decided to handle it?

[Sazerac]

He's told me before, "It's fine if you don't give me the admiration I think I deserve. There are other people in my life who I can get that from." Then when I question him about it, he says his coworkers tell him all the time what a great job he does.

 

 

Absolute narcissistic claptrap on his part. Run, don't walk, from this person. I doubt he's capable of loving anyone but himself. Classic narcissist behavior.

[Teffy79]

I suspected narcissism and have talked to him about it. He was receptive (even read a book about it) and said he felt that his upbringing with a controlling, emotionally unavailable and possibly narcissistic mother is probably where it all stems from. He tries to curb it, and I've seen a change in him. But then crazy comments like this come out, and it makes me wonder why the heck I'm here. The comments make me not trust him. Every time we come to a place where his behavior is a problem, he really works on it, but it's never is completely fixed. Bits and pieces of his anger and narcissism and rage and self centeredness come out and really hurt me. It's like, for all the good things he does, just one of these comments can break me down and rip my feelings to shreds. He tells me that's not fair and that we both know he's trying, so if something mean or rude or awful slips out every once in awhile, I should be understanding that it's a mistake and he's working on it.