Every knight needs a dragon to slay.

[tojaz]

I think I am understanding this a bit better, but how does externalizing the dragon help with moving forward?

 

Wasn't the point of the thread Trippi. Just a little new found understanding of what could be behind some of the WAS's here. Looking at things from the other side.

 

TOJAZ

[2.50 a gallon]

Tojaz, et al

 

It took me years to begin to understand what happened. My XW's father was a total alcoholic. It was so bad that mom finally scopped up the kids and moved across country. He also had a full beard

 

After about a year she meets me, I had a full beard and am a bad boy player and a partyer. She was on the verge of dropping out of college. She spotted me a came after me. She was very sexy and easily had her way with other men. Not me, she had this irritating voice that turned me off. I had a black book full of numbers and didn't need a failing college student in my life, so it was "Go away little girl" She had never had a man turn her down and that made me more attractive.

 

She went back to her place and busted up the place, broken windows, etc. Her mom came charging down to my apartment, mad at me and wanting to know what I had said or did to set her off. We have a heart tp heart talk, and me being partly to blame agree to be nicer to her, and at the least began to talk to her. I told her I saw her as a failure, she was blowing a chance at a college education. She went back to studying, and so it began.

 

Two and half years later, she wins, she gets her degree and we get married. I fell in love with her on our wedding day. I go from a bad boy partyer to a husband. That was a mistake, she was marrying her father, the drunk. What do I do? I back off on our partying, back off the booze, and start planning on us saving for a home and family. Her attraction to me begins to fade and it escalates from there. At first she is making more money than me, even though I have journeymanship in a trade, I take a day job a minimum wage. I was offered a job at over triple that wage, but I have to work nights. That was one of charcteristics of my trade, on usually has to take the night shift to get your foot in the door. But being a loving husband and a newly wed I accede to her wishes and take the day job.

 

Then the self help groupies begin to attack, begin pushing us to take the course at $500 a shot. I see them as a cult, and see it as a waste of time, and besides we are thousands in debt from out marriage and relocation. She sees it as her money, and sees me as controlling, and it goes down hill from there.

 

The first dragon, was her marrying her daddy, I did not put two and two together until years later.

 

Second dragon, we began a tit for tat relationship, with work it probably could have been saved, there was a love there, but we didn't know what we had. That and the outside influence she began to listen to

[Gunny376]

I really don't know what to say?

 

I understand what your saying (being of relative age)

 

I guess the best way to put it? Would be ~

 

Been there and done that! Completely understand!

[Gunny376]

My last post was directed toward 2.5 gallon ~ not tojaz.

[tojaz]

Gallon, despite all the good real world advice you give here, I think thats really the first time I've seen you lay your story out. Complicated, but very much what Im talking about. Sounds like you tried very hard to be your best for her.

 

Gunny, I honestly wasn't trying to read anything to your story. Sorry if I touched a nerve, wasn't my intention. While I've never served or been over seas living the life you volunteered to live. I will say that I've lived a life that can change a person in my younger days (go ahead and laugh, well aware i'm still a young pup to many here) Some of that change was for the better, some I could do without, and a lot I had to work pretty hard at.

 

You bring up a good point I hadn't seen in myself though, You say....

 

"The X wife, (I often call her the XHEX ~ but yea? I still love her ~ even though she's been gone twenty years. (Damned allergies make my eyes want to water) she's stilll clusless about a lot of things. I'm estranged from from my adult children for the same reasons.

 

There's a Hell of a lot they don't know? And I never told them.)

 

and thats where I am, is as I learn about myself and about relationships I just see so many things we didn't take the time to look at. So much that wasn't asked, and wasn't explored. I'm sure this is true for all, but a sticking point for many that were blindsided.

 

 

TOJAZ

[Gunny376]

Even if you weren't tojaz? I would think you would have to work hard all day long to offend me.

 

I've a pretty thick skin?

 

Yea? I've got this love~hate thing going on with the XHEX. She's the mother of my two children ~ a dear daughter and son. I pity the fool that ever hurts her in anyway (that she didn't bring upon herself). I will grab a hickory ax handle and walk tall on his @zz!

 

Maybe its the antidepressants and anxiety drugs ~ I 'm not so hard on her, nor myself. I would of, could of, should of ~ but I didn't because I didn't know any better at the time.

 

Had I known then what I know now, have come to understand about just the mechanics of being in a relationship (not with just a woman ~ but anyone)

 

That is the definition of the word "tact" ~ teating others the way you would want to be treated the way you would want to be treated if they were you and you were they? The "Golden Rule" ~ "Treat Others The Way You Would Have Them Treat You!"

 

Your good and solid people tojaz~ Your remind me of my good friend Mitch (Mitchel) that I workl with.

 

People like you and he are hard to come by ~ true blue friends to the hilt!

[tojaz]

Thanks Gunny that means a lot!

 

I see what your saying, I havent been very hard on my ex lately either. I think for me its a change of perspective. I guess I just kind of see what she was probably feeling at the moment and can relate. I'll never believe that this was the way it had to be. I guess I love her, but hate what she has done.

 

TOJAZ

[trippi1432]

Thanks Gunny that means a lot!

 

I see what your saying, I havent been very hard on my ex lately either. I think for me its a change of perspective. I guess I just kind of see what she was probably feeling at the moment and can relate. I'll never believe that this was the way it had to be. I guess I love her, but hate what she has done.

 

TOJAZ

 

Tojaz,

 

You and I don't always say it the right way in our discussions...men are from Mars, women are from Venus....but yeah...change of perspective....seeing it from both sides. People on my thread tell me I am beating myself up, but I don't see it that way...now I know why my STBXH told me to open my mind the other week....that is how I will find out how to be happy. We are all entitled to it and all will be one day, no matter how we get there.....:love: Hugs.

[tojaz]

Tojaz,

 

You and I don't always say it the right way in our discussions...men are from Mars, women are from Venus....but yeah...change of perspective....seeing it from both sides. People on my thread tell me I am beating myself up, but I don't see it that way...now I know why my STBXH told me to open my mind the other week....that is how I will find out how to be happy. We are all entitled to it and all will be one day, no matter how we get there.....:love: Hugs.

 

Couldn't agree more Trippi! Its not beating yourself up, its looking for answers just like everyone else. Many people here regardless of the situation are far too rigid in their thinking. Not how life works.

 

Hugs right back at ya

 

TOJAZ

[2.50 a gallon]

The XW was seriously sexy, foldout material, and used her sexiness as one of her weapons to ensnarl me. As I said my black book was full, but she stood a head taller than all the rest, as she was several inches taller than me, and most women want a man who is taller than her. Long legs are at the top of my list.

 

Yes I had dated many women who were taller than me, but they only saw me as a f/w/b and not permanant material.

 

Over the years she began to get to me, going out wearing high heals, now a good 8 inches taller than me, add a low cut blouse and dancing close. Get the picture.

 

She had lots of pursuers, students, even teachers, but they were all put in their place, I was her man. She tried to point out our difference in size and she ansered by having a couple of T-shirts custom lettered, hers said "Short Guys Are Lovers" and mine said "Short Guy" That was a hell of an ego trip to go shopping with a super sexy woman.

 

Sex: It was any place, any time, any where.

 

Also she began to study really hard and get top notch grades, we did not live together but she hung around enough to establish her territory, and help my me keep it clean.

 

I had a serious surgery, it was supposed to be in in the early morning, and out by 5. It did not work out that way, a police shoot out, set back the schedule and I did not go under the knife until afternooon.

 

When I come out of it, I find that I have been admitted and my mother has purposely put me in a non smoking section. I am a smoker. Also I have a full bladder, am laying on my back in pain and the nurses are telling me to piss up hill into their little pot, the muscles I have to use have just been cut on and I find it to be very painful. They also brought me in this rotten looking food, very unappetizing. I am in misery.

 

Then my guardian angel gets out of class and shows up and takes over. "F-off, he has been a smoker for 10 years," and lights me, then she finds a nurse and the two of them help me to my feet and help me to the head, Relief. Then she was off to get me a soda and pudding, and also found me an extra blanket, I was lying just under the AC and was supposed to have only one blanket per patient. in short when my back was against the wall she turned into a dynamo and fought for her man, and told everybody else to piss off and got me help. I was impressed. She made lots of points that day

Edited May 28, 2010 by 2.50 a gallon

[tojaz]

Then my guardian angel gets out of class and shows up and takes over. "F-off, he has been a smoker for 10 years," and lights me, then she finds a nurse and the two of them help me to my feet and help me to the head, Relief. Then she was off to get me a soda and pudding, and also found me an extra blanket, I was lying just under the AC and was supposed to have only one blanket per patient. in short when my back was against the wall she turned into a dynamo and fought for her man, and told everybody else to piss off and got me help. I was impressed. She made lots of points that day

 

Wow Gallon you struck 2 chords with that one. I have a Guardian Angel of my own and it isn't my wife strangely enough.

 

I can also remember a time when my ex could be sweet like that. Caring and thoughtful. Really makes you wonder what the hell happened.

 

Sorry it worked out like it did for you Gallon

 

 

TOJAZ

[trippi1432]

Then my guardian angel gets out of class and shows up and takes over. "F-off, he has been a smoker for 10 years," and lights me, then she finds a nurse and the two of them help me to my feet and help me to the head, Relief. Then she was off to get me a soda and pudding, and also found me an extra blanket, I was lying just under the AC and was supposed to have only one blanket per patient. in short when my back was against the wall she turned into a dynamo and fought for her man, and told everybody else to piss off and got me help. I was impressed. She made lots of points that day

 

Good ending to the story Gallon....my daughter was my rescuer last July when I had to have an operation....I honestly don't know what I would have done without her....I never could rely on my ex for those things.

[2.50 a gallon]

We always had a great sex life, and the XW was a little on the brassy side. She her common reply as to how was the weekend, was along the lines of getting her brains "F'd" out.

 

Comes Super Bowl Sunday, and my long suffering team makes it to their first Super Bowl. She was a little frustrated with my football watching, and asked at half time whether I was going to watch the whle "F'n" game. You would have thought after 3 seasons of football she would have known me, so the words began to fly. The end result was her rolling away from me that night in bed. To get even with her I did the same a few days later, tit for tat. And our sex live took a nose dive and she turned into the Virgin Mary

 

This goes on for months, as we slowly head down hill. Then I catch her kissing the guard.

 

Deep in my soul there lives a demon, it is hate, it is anger, it is vile, it is so scary that I keep it chained and padlocked in a safety vault. Ugly and scary as it might be, it is also a source of strength and survival, a tool to be used at the right time. I liked playing sports, when I was losing, I had learned to a sip of this would get me to the next level of intensity. Now I am going to kill the "M. Fers".

 

On this day, seeing her in the arms of another man, I no longer sipped, the vault was open, and had there not been a chain link fence with razor wire around the top, I probably would still have been in prison. My mouth took over, and I let her know I was more than displeased and to not come home that night.

 

She showed up the next day with a police escort to get some clothes. A few more bad words are exchanged, such as the "wh*re" can have her clothes, etc.

 

And a couple of days after that she partys with the next door neigbors, with the OM and associate OM's, gets drunk and strips for them.

 

A couple of weeks after that I began an affair with the next door neighbor's wife, an associate OM

 

Shortly thereafter the XW comes by to get more things, is all dressed up and wanting to reconcile, "I'm Sorrys", "Mistake", etc. Then figures out that I have am having relations with the next door neighbor.

 

I do not care the demon is out, and 4 years later we get a D.

[2.50 a gallon]

Her fellow workers notice that she no longer claims she got her brains "F'd" out over the weekend. She gets close and starts to share with a female fellow worker. This gal is hot, single, and a little on the wild side. She also shares that we had had an accidental 3-some years earlier, when she caught me in bed with her best friend, and my reply had been "You have your choice, you can get mad and leave or you can join in" This was during my player days.

 

The two of them begin to plot a surprise 3-some for me on the weekend of our 6 month anniversary. Their thinking is this might reprime the pump.

 

In the meantime, the friend has slept with the guard and bragged about his size. While my XW was bragging about me.

 

The mistake. Between the two of them it was decided that my XW would check him out and report who was better equiped.

 

Usually, I had an hour lunch, to be with her it was 15 minutes over and another 15 minutes back, giving us a half an hour together. But being it was our anniversary, I made arrangements to get extra long lunch and to pick up a rose, and arrived early. That is when I caught her, she was kissing the guy in order to get a reaction and cop a feel.

 

I showed up, the demon was losed, and from the things I said and the way I reacted she was beyond scared. She spent the next couple of nights with her hot friend.

 

Then she came by to get her clothes, and I made matters worse. The tit for tat game had gone to a higher level. So she decided, to push things and party with the OM and the neighbor. She was depressed and got drunk and did strip for the guys. That weekend she tried to have sex with the OM for the first time.

 

Some of this story was later partially confirmed by her hot friend.

 

But it was too late the second that I saw her with the OM as the images had already been imprinted on my brain.

[Gunny376]

2.50 a gallon

 

Not to take away from all the pain and hurt that you've been through?

 

There are many different levels of Hell ~ and when you find yourself going though Hell?

 

Just keep on going ~ don't stop!

[trippi1432]

Her fellow workers notice that she no longer claims she got her brains "F'd" out over the weekend. She gets close and starts to share with a female fellow worker. This gal is hot, single, and a little on the wild side. She also shares that we had had an accidental 3-some years earlier, when she caught me in bed with her best friend, and my reply had been "You have your choice, you can get mad and leave or you can join in" This was during my player days.

 

The two of them begin to plot a surprise 3-some for me on the weekend of our 6 month anniversary. Their thinking is this might reprime the pump.

 

In the meantime, the friend has slept with the guard and bragged about his size. While my XW was bragging about me.

 

The mistake. Between the two of them it was decided that my XW would check him out and report who was better equiped.

 

Usually, I had an hour lunch, to be with her it was 15 minutes over and another 15 minutes back, giving us a half an hour together. But being it was our anniversary, I made arrangements to get extra long lunch and to pick up a rose, and arrived early. That is when I caught her, she was kissing the guy in order to get a reaction and cop a feel.

 

I showed up, the demon was losed, and from the things I said and the way I reacted she was beyond scared. She spent the next couple of nights with her hot friend.

 

Then she came by to get her clothes, and I made matters worse. The tit for tat game had gone to a higher level. So she decided, to push things and party with the OM and the neighbor. She was depressed and got drunk and did strip for the guys. That weekend she tried to have sex with the OM for the first time.

 

Some of this story was later partially confirmed by her hot friend.

 

But it was too late the second that I saw her with the OM as the images had already been imprinted on my brain.

 

One problem...this is still her version from your side or vice versa.

 

On your first post, the one about the sports watching and the tit for tat...that was pretty much my marriage. At first, he only watched the pre-season and only his team...then it became every single game. Eventually it spanned to other sports where the family wasn't involved very much. Even more, we weren't allowed to move towels or other team trophies in the case that we jinx the team. It was also "required" that we be there for his team so I stopped my Sunday lunches with my mother and children which had been a tradition in our family for 3 decades.

 

Do you know when I finally realized that tit for tat was wrong? 15 years later when a particular person took the time to continue text messageing discussions with me while watching his football game. That was a smack over the head with a board that men choose to be that way toward those they care about or choose to place blame on everyone around them. That's not tit for tat , that is mutual respct.

[Gunny376]

I'm not going to lie to you? I'm a Roll Tide Alabana fan! I could cae less about the SEC , NFL or the AFL.

 

But if Alabama is playing Auburn (Almost a sin in Alabama) and my woman says we need to talk, the VCR is coming on and the tv is going off!

[tojaz]

I'm not going to lie to you? I'm a Roll Tide Alabana fan! I could cae less about the SEC , NFL or the AFL.

 

But if Alabama is playing Auburn (Almost a sin in Alabama) and my woman says we need to talk, the VCR is coming on and the tv is going off!

 

Couldn't agree more Guns. Die hard Football fan here, and yeah, if theres a game on, I'm probably watching it. Some things are more important though. My favorite SuperBowl memory was the one I didn't get to watch. See the wife got her car stuck in the snow at the end of our drive way and i was busy digging it out while she was cooking some chimichangas for the game. Just as I'm finishing and walking up the drive she set some oil off and had a small grease fire. We spent the rest of the night scrubbing the kitchen cieling while she apologized for making me miss the game.

 

...What game! I couldn't even tell you who played that year, but still get a nice feeling and a giggle out of that story. Thats what matters!

 

TOJAZ

[2.50 a gallon]

Actually the super bowl incident is a key to that we were doomed to failure. Sort of "If you don't know me by now"

 

I had chosen this team as a child because they were losers, with the thought that sometime in my life time, they would pop to the top. They were never invited to play on MNF, so in our home town, I got to see them play only a couple of times a year.

 

We move to their area, so now I get to watch every game. We make an agreement, that this is only for 4 months, so when ever they play I am in front of the TV. And the rest of the weekend is hers to decide. If they play in the afternoon, and she wanted to go to church in the morning I went with. I too love college and especially the Big 8, SEC and ACC games, just for watching great football. But these are secondary to her wishes, shopping, picniking, beach, her choice.

 

As it turned out me moving to the area was their good luck charm and they went from doormats to contenders. The talk of the town. Who knew if they would ever get there again and I was going to watch every minute of the game. It might be my only shot in this life. They had been that bad. Also the first VCR's did not come onto the market for a couple of years later.

 

Two more hours and the season is over, If you don' know me by now, after 3 seasons.

 

And for those who might be interested football starts in 10 weeks, Aug 8, Hall of Fame game, Cowboys - Bengals

[2ndthymearound]

My dragon is our friend. We haven't started counseling yet, we just separated 5 days ago, so I have no idea what is going on his head yet. I lashed out at a friend on the day that it all fell apart because I felt like he was telling my husband things about his barely over 1 yr relationship and made my husband think that ours was so terrible. I needed someone to blame so I guess that I blamed him. I still have not talked to him and during this time I don't feel like I should because he's my husband's best friend. I think that I do need to apologize.

[tojaz]

2ndthymearound, that would definitely be a dragon. Understandable though, many things play a role in a WAS's decision to leave. You will have a chance to apologize, but I agree you should wait until things are resolved one way or another.

 

You should consider posting a thread with your story. A lot of good advice to be had here.

 

TOJAZ