Every knight needs a dragon to slay.

[trippi1432]

By the way, you rehash your story here because you need to...it helps you to not move on.

[trippi1432]

After an hour convo on the phone...there's your dragon to slay hun. And Hun is a Southern term, go look it up.

[trippi1432]

crosshairs?..Trippi when I was younger (10-11) I used to watch my mom and pops fight daily..on our 'vacation' I wrapped my arms around my mother and held her tightly for she had a steak knife and was trying to stab my dad..I didn't let go till the police showed up..that was one of many daily 'wars' I grew up around....I wasn't even scared then like I am now..it doesn't make sense why I feel 'scared' now.

 

Until I was with my ex for 15 years, I could never understand that DoTG....I do understand how it feels to know that nothing you ever do is good enough or right. At any rate, I have to "tone" it down as I am being complained about....so I will stop posting to your threads now as it is not constructive to your developement, but is to those that are a year out or more.

[DadofTwoGirls]

trippi..It's all good...although I believe IMHO..that sometimes coming and posting or reading post here or any other place can be a deterent to some IF THEY LET IT...A post, text or email will be interpreted different ways by different people..what I believe it comes down to is 'only the person posting knows how THEY were in their role of the demise of their own relationship with their SO'..so when someone tells me not to 'beat myself up' or 'forget about her she left you'..although the intention is well meaning..bottomline is behind closed doors I know what part I played in my own marriage to be where we are at now...not anyone else including friends or family..no one but me and my wife..but that's just how I see it.

[heartbrokensj]

 

I believe the story HeartbrokenSJ relates is more the transition of her shifting from needing the dragon (her H) to looking within herself to find her own answers. Something that is very hard to do for most. I'm not fully familiar with her story though (promise I'll read up tonight )

 

TOJAZ

 

You read my mind Tojaz...thanks for clearing that up for those that I may have confused!

[Gunny376]

My dragons to slay?

 

I was part of the Beruit bombing. I wasn't on shore when the truck-bomb hit the barracks! I was on ship, and was made part of the the recovery detail digging out the dead Marines that died.

 

And I could go on and on and on!

 

What's the point?

 

The point is? Life happens!

 

S***! Happpens!

 

Only half of all women can trust half of all men ~ and vice versa! That's just the way it is.

 

You've got it to the hilt, dedicated to the end gals getting with with .50 cent crack head whores.

 

Ditto for the men, Its about fifty-fifty.

 

The problem is that you've got the fifthy percent faithful women getting with the fifthy un-faithful women and vice vice versa.

 

It never ceases to amaze me how many men are totally willing to screw up thier lives over a piece of azz!

 

When all I'm looking for is someone to drink sweet tea on the back porch with?

[tojaz]

Not really what I'm getting at Guns. You've told me about Beirut before and thats a hell I could never imagine. Thats not a dragon my friend thats life, thats your life and (cheap quote) "its a life you can hang your hat on" and its made you who you are.

 

In my thinking, a dragon is just what it is defined as. Mythical, not real! Something created to keep people from wandering too far from the castle, keep the kids in bed at night, and a beast to be vanquished for the glory of knights. If you think for a bit, whats a Knight without a dragon? without a foe? Just a guy in metal underwear.

 

DISCLAIMER-- THE FOLLOWING ANALOGY IS A COMPLETE AND TOTAL FABRICATION ONLY POSTED BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN TOLD NOBODY WANTS TO HEAR ME REHASH MY OWN STORY.

 

As most people who have been with me here a while know, I lost a good friend last July post bomb drop. I had a lot of anger connected to that. If that had taken place within a healthy marriage, where could that anger have gone? Theres a good chance that it could have been directed at my wife, lashing out, finding fault with every little thing, possibly violent (see disclaimer) A situation like that could have easily caused me to end my marriage, or driven her away. Would I have really been angry with her? No, my anger would have been within myself, connected to Allies passing, but needed a handy outlet. In that situation, my wife was the dragon, a stand in for my own issues, a foe to fight that is not myself and the true issues causing distress (the true foe). Something I could complain to my friends about (shes a b***h!) something my family can comfort me for and support me for, something I could publicly overcome. (hes so much happier now that hes away from that shrew)

 

How often have we heard it! I hate you, you ruined my life, I never loved you! Things said to hurt, to cause damage, a stab at the beast.

 

No, not true in every divorce, but I think it happens a lot in the cases of a sudden break, and WAS's. Something that seems to me to be present for those of us blindsided.

 

and....... Somewhat ironically, Dragon stems from the greek verb Drakein which means "To see clearly"

 

TOJAZ

[trippi1432]

Tojaz - There's another side to the dragon story, if you read Living Serendipitously - Welcoming the Dragon....yes, the dragon is within us, it is what makes us and typically turns out that the dragon is the extension of us that is hurt and needs help from those it loves.

 

All you needed during that time, was non-judgemental trust, kindness and understanding from her, and it wasn't there. Unfortunately, there are many out there that have these dragons as well, more than just the one. There are many that choose not to peel back the layers because it becomes to risky to their own mental, spiritual and physical health. That is where I am now...luckily Gunny is doing much better.

 

My apologies seem like this post is all over the place...it's just how my thoughts seem to go these days.

[SummerLady]

Its been a long time since I've started a thread. I'm still around though, check in every day, still reading posts and replying when I find that I can help. Thanks for all the PMs asking where I've gone and if I was ok, your care is much appreciated.

 

In reading posts here, I have come across many common threads in peoples stories. This is something that I've been thinking about a great deal and the start of a number of threads that have been boiling in my head over the last several weeks.

 

There is one question I see more then any other asked by those of us blind sided and left behind. Its in most threads at some point and several times in my own divorce I can recall screaming it, hoping to find that understanding that I would never receive. WHY! As in why does my previously devoted spouse all of a sudden feel that I am little more then a mistake. Why is it that my partner could feel that after all this time spent in a life that they helped build can they decide that it no longer suits them and feel the need to run for the hills as fast as they can. This is a question that I see more then any other causing trauma here on LS, people being stuck in the search for answers that they probably will never find. My self included. As someone who took pride in his marriage and did all he could to do right by his wife, fresh on the heels of a romantic weekend and planning a vacation together, obviously I was taken by surprise and buried under the nightmare of "what did I do?" and "how could this happen?" I found little help from my former soul mate who was all too happy to hurl allegations at me that seemed to change daily. I like most, continued to try and share my side, plead my case to a jury that wasn't listening, and there I am again, WHY? Why does she value our marriage so little all of a sudden? Why is she afraid to be around me, to talk to me? Why does she feel the need to do this when by her own words after the fact, I had done it right? Heres my theory and I believe it applies to many of us....... Every knight needs a dragon.

 

Sure most of you are scratching your heads at that, so let me explain. The LS mantra here on S&D, "Work on yourself!" Every one of us has read it, and most of us have passed it on to someone else, yet not everyone can do it. Not right away anyway. For most it takes a slap in the face, a lot of hurt, or something huge to open that up. Hopefully, we are strong enough to face our shortcomings, or the things in our life that we are not happy with, isolate how we got ourselves off track and move towards being healthy and happy within our selves and by extension, within our relationships with others, be they friends, family, or a love. The keys to that are different for every person, for every situation, and this board is full of shining examples too numerous to mention. One need only look to Gunnys latest thread to see, the strength it takes to face our own troubles. My hat is off to you Guns! Im not talking about the ones that can face it though, luckily LS has lots of that, I'm talking about the ones that don't.

 

There is no doubt that there comes a time when we all look at our life and don't really like what we see. Things we had aspired to, missed opportunities, sometimes just our place in the world. Some are able to look at themselves and try to see what they need to do to be happy, be fulfilled, but some cannot and prefer to look for an outside source for their troubles, a villain, a cause, a dragon to slay! That will always be easier then seeing and admitting to the places where we ourselves had gone wrong or lost sight. Just saying it aloud speaks volumes, which is easier? You did this to me, or I did this to me? Thats a very hard thing to admit for most, and many will avoid it at all cost. Preferring instead to have a tangible foe or obstacle to overcome. Something they can gather support against, something to blame. In reading the stories here on LS, all to often that foe becomes a bewildered spouse completely lost and oblivious to what is happening beneath the surface. Find themselves blamed for things they had no control over, or even fought to resist. It is nothing conscious and it is nothing deliberate or hateful. In some respect we all do it at one time or another I think. Anytime we wish to change our lives, we desperately search for that catalyst, that one obstacle to put us on the path we need to be on, but is very hard for anyone to accept that we can be the obstacle to our own happiness, yet that is usually the case. Still, it is much more rewarding and easier to find support against a common enemy, a villain, a Dragon!

 

TOJAZ

 

I like your post, I appreciate your positive points of view and you are certainly right about this board, Gunny and Chrome and Carhill and many others:) for me all give objective, in your face truthful advice. The kind we need and sometimes don't want to hear. BUT in your situation you did everything right in the marriage per your post and your ex wife just walked away. I do not think this is the norm with divorces that I have heard about. I do not think that is the majority, that one person ups and walks away when everything is fine and have a spouse treating them wonderfully and there is nothing wrong with the marriage. Somewhere in the marriage something is missing or is wrong or is not working and that is where the breakdown begins and ends. The failure to see the fault or faults in the marriage leads one to believe, why did this marriage fail, why did the other person just walk away. My ex cheated on me, when I first found out I was mad and angry and felt wow we had this great relationship, why?? But while your angry and sad and mad you can't see the whole picture. Now looking back I can see the how and why. I am not saying if a relationship is failing you have the right to go off and do what you want but I am trying to say I understand why he went in that direction. Again I do not agree with the way he acted I am just saying now I understand it. I do not think that cheating is ever acceptable. So you may need more time and distance from this relationship to see they how and why's. No one gets up and leaves a relationship for no reason, there is always a reason. Whether we know the real reason or understand it is another story all within itself. The most important factor is we walk away better as we were not in the best realtionship, we deserve better. No way to go but up!

Edited May 23, 2010 by SummerLady

[tojaz]

Tojaz - There's another side to the dragon story, if you read Living Serendipitously - Welcoming the Dragon....yes, the dragon is within us, it is what makes us and typically turns out that the dragon is the extension of us that is hurt and needs help from those it loves.

 

All you needed during that time, was non-judgemental trust, kindness and understanding from her, and it wasn't there. Unfortunately, there are many out there that have these dragons as well, more than just the one. There are many that choose not to peel back the layers because it becomes to risky to their own mental, spiritual and physical health. That is where I am now...luckily Gunny is doing much better.

 

My apologies seem like this post is all over the place...it's just how my thoughts seem to go these days.

 

I get what your saying Trip, but were talking about two different things and your reading a lot of backstory into that analogy, which was a complete fabrication. She was already long gone when Allie passed. Thats why I "rehash", because its easier to follow. It actually sounds like what you and Gunny are describing as a dragon, is the exact opposite of mine.

 

TOJAZ

[trippi1432]

I like your post, I appreciate your positive points of view and you are certainly right about this board, Gunny and Chrome and Carhill and many others:) for me all give objective, in your face truthful advice. The kind we need and sometimes don't want to hear. BUT in your situation you did everything right in the marriage per your post and your ex wife just walked away. I do not think this is the norm with divorces that I have heard about. I do not think that is the majority, that one person ups and walks away when everything is fine and have a spouse treating them wonderfully and there is nothing wrong with the marriage. Somewhere in the marriage something is missing or is wrong or is not working and that is where the breakdown begins and ends. The failure to see the fault or faults in the marriage leads one to believe, why did this marriage fail, why did the other person just walk away. My ex cheated on me, when I first found out I was mad and angry and felt wow we had this great relationship, why?? But while your angry and sad and mad you can't see the whole picture. Now looking back I can see the how and why. I am not saying if a relationship is failing you have the right to go off and do what you want but I am trying to say I understand why he went in that direction. Again I do not agree with the way he acted I am just saying now I understand it. I do not think that cheating is ever acceptable. So you may need more time and distance from this relationship to see they how and why's. No one gets up and leaves a relationship for no reason, there is always a reason. Whether we know the real reason or understand it is another story all within itself. The most important factor is we walk away better as we were not in the best realtionship, we deserve better. No way to go but up!

 

SummerLady - I can see your point, it's unfathomable to think that a person would just up and leave a perfectly good marriage on a whim, but I think that everyone does the best they can at the time with what they have.

 

Sometimes the DRAGON can be the mindset of what the wife/husband wants but the other doesn't want. Sometimes that DRAGON can be fear of the future. Thing is, when the WAS just up and decides it without discussing it, even trying to do the MC did they kill their DRAGON or did they give you the leash to take it for a walk for a while?

[trippi1432]

I get what your saying Trip, but were talking about two different things and your reading a lot of backstory into that analogy, which was a complete fabrication. She was already long gone when Allie passed. Thats why I "rehash", because its easier to follow. It actually sounds like what you and Gunny are describing as a dragon, is the exact opposite of mine.

 

TOJAZ

 

 

I know....I remembered that she had already moved out. But I also understand that what you are getting at is that you could have used that as your dragon to move to the next stage....it's what you don't have (the anger, the answers to the questions)....that's your dragon.

[tojaz]

I like your post, I appreciate your positive points of view and you are certainly right about this board, Gunny and Chrome and Carhill and many others:) for me all give objective, in your face truthful advice. The kind we need and sometimes don't want to hear. BUT in your situation you did everything right in the marriage per your post and your ex wife just walked away. I do not think this is the norm with divorces that I have heard about. I do not think that is the majority, that one person ups and walks away when everything is fine and have a spouse treating them wonderfully and there is nothing wrong with the marriage. Somewhere in the marriage something is missing or is wrong or is not working and that is where the breakdown begins and ends. The failure to see the fault or faults in the marriage leads one to believe, why did this marriage fail, why did the other person just walk away. My ex cheated on me, when I first found out I was mad and angry and felt wow we had this great relationship, why?? But while your angry and sad and mad you can't see the whole picture. Now looking back I can see the how and why. I am not saying if a relationship is failing you have the right to go off and do what you want but I am trying to say I understand why he went in that direction. Again I do not agree with the way he acted I am just saying now I understand it. I do not think that cheating is ever acceptable. So you may need more time and distance from this relationship to see they how and why's. No one gets up and leaves a relationship for no reason, there is always a reason. Whether we know the real reason or understand it is another story all within itself. The most important factor is we walk away better as we were not in the best realtionship, we deserve better. No way to go but up!

 

Thank you Summerlady. Believe me, I did not do everything right. I made lots of mistakes, and brought my own issues to the table as well, but I did the best I knew how to at the time and thats all we can do, and so did she. You hit the nail on the head, its about seeing the whole picture and many times the need someone feels to walk away from a relationship actually has very little to do with the relationship at all, even if that is contradictory to how they portray it to others or even to themselves in the moment. The problems within the relationship can be a symptom of something outside, but often times treated as a root cause.

 

TOJAZ

[You Go Girl]

Tojaz, I don't know your history. Are you sure there wasn't a OM?

Only reason I ask is that I don't believe people walk from someone they are emotionally invested in. They walk when their emotions have been redirected.

Those emotions could be redirected over time, slowly, but the spouse would hear complaints long beforehand, and those complaints would have had to fall on deaf ears. Then the WAS would be acting in a calculated, long planned out and thought out manner. The emotional detachment would have to be nearly complete by the time they told spouse they wanted a D. That means the spouse that is left would have had to ignore the lack of intimacy for a long time.

Those emotions could be redirectly quickly by an OM/OW, very very quickly.

[tojaz]

YGG, my story is here on LS, there was an OM of sorts, while his intentions were pretty clear, hers seemed to have been more of as a source of support and a sort of EA that seemed to be more of a transitional person and I am fairly certain it was nothing more then that, I believe that the change in emotion was more a response of the pressure she was experiencing trying to keep the demands of marriage, career, and family all in balance and trying to keep everyone happy.

 

TOJAZ

[Gunny376]

Beruit was bad enough?

 

It was Rwanda that drove me over the edge. Roads lined with dead men, women and children ~ babies dead in the ditches along side of the road.

 

"One, two, three!" Toss them into the back of dump trucks! Bury them in mass graves. Throw lime over them? Bury them with bulldozers.

 

For sixteen years I went to sleep with those memories?

 

I self medicated with alcohol. Drinking just to get to get some sleep.

 

Trouble with alcohol? It takes more and more?

 

Got out here in civilian la~la land? And I haven't been through half of what Vietnam Vets have been through, nor Khe Shan, nor Hue!

 

But I've been through the "Born In The USA" deal. Your a vet? Your unemployable! (Politicians that brag about their service make me want to puke)

 

The unemployment rate for returning Iraqi and Afghanistan vets? 26% Guess there's just no market for machine gunners, trigger pullers, motormen, artillerymen, tankers and such?

 

I got forced to see a psychologist, and get on antidepressant and anxiety drugs.

 

Either that? Or lose my job.

 

Once you've reached a certain age? Around age 40 or so? It gets really hard to find any kind of job. Once you get past 50? It gets really hard. I don't care what kind of education or degree you have. Especially in this economy!

 

The meds have seiously helped in a BIG way! Although they do make me want to sleep too much.

 

I happier, I smile more, I laugh more, I'm friender more, more out going, I'm less stressed, I worry less (in fact I don't worry about anything) and most of all?

 

I'm less of an @zzhole!

 

When I first joined LS ~ Tony (the Mod) use to slam me with violtations of LS policy.

 

I'v e seriously chilled since then.

 

BTW Tony!

 

Thanks for putting up with me!

[LisaUk]

Tojaz, I don't know your history. Are you sure there wasn't a OM?

Only reason I ask is that I don't believe people walk from someone they are emotionally invested in. They walk when their emotions have been redirected.

Those emotions could be redirected over time, slowly, but the spouse would hear complaints long beforehand, and those complaints would have had to fall on deaf ears. Then the WAS would be acting in a calculated, long planned out and thought out manner. The emotional detachment would have to be nearly complete by the time they told spouse they wanted a D. That means the spouse that is left would have had to ignore the lack of intimacy for a long time.

Those emotions could be redirectly quickly by an OM/OW, very very quickly.

 

Yougogirl please forgive the quick reply (I am in the middle of law finals but had to respond quickly to your post before bed). I get what you are saying and logically if I hadn't expereinced it myself I would agree with you. However, when your partner of 18 years is walking you round wedding venues, churches, holding your hand, laughing and smiling saying "oh look Lis, isn't this place fantasic, our guestd would" etc etc, telling you how much they love you sleeping next to them as it makes them feel safe and secure, never expressing any serious unhappiness, nothing nada, then just a few weeks later they haven't loved you in years, we aren't compatible, you are so opinionated, I want to go out more, I have done nothing with my life etc etc and yet no OW. It makes no sense, no emotional detachment (not even one I missed) and no OW. Personally I think Tojaz is on to something here, internal factors that they cannot address and you become the whipping boy, the dragon. In my exes case, commitment issues and midlife quandries, a complete COWARD.

[trippi1432]

Yougogirl please forgive the quick reply (I am in the middle of law finals but had to respond quickly to your post before bed). I get what you are saying and logically if I hadn't expereinced it myself I would agree with you. However, when your partner of 18 years is walking you round wedding venues, churches, holding your hand, laughing and smiling saying "oh look Lis, isn't this place fantasic, our guestd would" etc etc, telling you how much they love you sleeping next to them as it makes them feel safe and secure, never expressing any serious unhappiness, nothing nada, then just a few weeks later they haven't loved you in years, we aren't compatible, you are so opinionated, I want to go out more, I have done nothing with my life etc etc and yet no OW. It makes no sense, no emotional detachment (not even one I missed) and no OW. Personally I think Tojaz is on to something here, internal factors that they cannot address and you become the whipping boy, the dragon. In my exes case, commitment issues and midlife quandries, a complete COWARD.

 

Lisa, good luck on your finals hun.

 

The point is YGG - the DRAGON can be anything...doesn't have to be an OW or an OM...for each of us it's different. The DRAGON can be the STBXH's own DRAGON for not being strong enough to put that beer down for himself, not just his family. My DRAGON can be the internalization of not feeling that I or the family as worth that respect, building up my own low self-esteem issues. I could have slayed my dragon along time ago, but I rode it out. The point is though....I wasn't the right the person for him.

 

While Tojaz and LisaUK were blind-sided with their relationships, there are also many that do see the issues, we do see the dragons...but just can't find the right way to fight them without emotionally checking out of the relationship. We can talk about them, we can plead, we can make an ultimatum, set a boundary, get counseling and even go to Al-Anon....if their dragon can't be slayed and your dragon continues to build....there's a time to say, as Carrie Underwood sings, "What Can I Say". To see him living the life now that he wanted, and seeing him happy....yeah, it hurts....but it was the right thing to do. And no, that's not a cop out or trying to spin this thread a different way...it's the process of making and accepting changes.

 

MikeyMad - If you happen by, I found the rest of your quote you like to use...I think it was you that typically posts this...

 

"Best Way out is always through"

 

the rest goes:

 

"Through our Feelings, Through our Emotions, Through our Endings. Free yourself to embrace what is waiting for us just ahead."

 

Perspective - there's a lot to say about that.

[Gunny376]

Not really what I'm getting at Guns. You've told me about Beirut before and that's a hell I could never imagine. That's not a dragon my friend that's life, that's your life and (cheap quote) "its a life you can hang your hat on" and its made you who you are.

 

Oh no doubt a most defining moment in my life ~ per many others. I drank that SOB to death with Canadian and Scotch Whiskey for many a year!

 

Until it caught up with me with a no nonsense retired National Guard Master Sergeant that had served during the Tet Offensive during Vietnam of a boss.

 

He recognized the symptoms ~ hating life and everyone in it, anger management, drinking to excess, coming into work half hung over. PTSD!

 

He called me in on the carpet?

 

Either get help, or get gone!

 

So I did something NO Marine would ever do? I called and made a appointment with a psychologist

 

And sorry

 

Got on antidepressant and anxiety drugs!

 

I'm more agreeable, sociable, polite, respectfull, less stressed ~ nothing bothers me nor gets me upset.

 

The Hell of it is? I haven't been through half of what others have been through.

 

 

And sorry to say it?

 

But nor have you!

[trippi1432]

Oh no doubt a most defining moment in my life ~ per many others. I drank that SOB to death with Canadian and Scotch Whiskey for many a year!

 

Until it caught up with me with a no nonsense retired National Guard Master Sergeant that had served during the Tet Offensive during Vietnam of a boss.

 

He recognized the symptoms ~ hating life and everyone in it, anger management, drinking to excess, coming into work half hung over. PTSD!

 

He called me in on the carpet?

 

Either get help, or get gone!

 

So I did something NO Marine would ever do? I called and made a appointment with a psychologist

 

And sorry

 

Got on antidepressant and anxiety drugs!

 

I'm more agreeable, sociable, polite, respectfull, less stressed ~ nothing bothers me nor gets me upset.

 

The Hell of it is? I haven't been through half of what others have been through.

 

 

And sorry to say it?

 

But nor have you!

 

Gunny!! Nothing to be ashamed about one bit hun!! :love::love:

 

Everyone has something they have to to live through...some worse than others....but each is a learning experience, a part of who you are and you take from it what you learn. It's you....is it fair...no, no always...but you can learn to live with it. (Da*n...think my meds are kicking in....?)

[tojaz]

Yougogirl please forgive the quick reply (I am in the middle of law finals but had to respond quickly to your post before bed). I get what you are saying and logically if I hadn't expereinced it myself I would agree with you. However, when your partner of 18 years is walking you round wedding venues, churches, holding your hand, laughing and smiling saying "oh look Lis, isn't this place fantasic, our guestd would" etc etc, telling you how much they love you sleeping next to them as it makes them feel safe and secure, never expressing any serious unhappiness, nothing nada, then just a few weeks later they haven't loved you in years, we aren't compatible, you are so opinionated, I want to go out more, I have done nothing with my life etc etc and yet no OW. It makes no sense, no emotional detachment (not even one I missed) and no OW. Personally I think Tojaz is on to something here, internal factors that they cannot address and you become the whipping boy, the dragon. In my exes case, commitment issues and midlife quandries, a complete COWARD.

 

Hit the nail on the head Lis! Exactly what i'm talking about.

[trippi1432]

"internal factors that they cannot address and you become the whipping boy, the dragon."

 

Hit the nail on the head Lis! Exactly what i'm talking about.

 

Actually, that happens in all relationships, be it marriage, parents, children, friends, co-workers, bosses....everyone has a dragon and are apt to take that factor out on someone until they recognize the dragon and what they need to control.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that the internal factor that you are both referring to is fear. One of the things that we were looking at in my group sessions last week were how the history and experience of an emotional event triggers the thinking and emotional reactions to fear.

 

Lisa - in your case, he went through all of the actions because he was a coward. But it also could be that through some past learning (something that his father/mother/aunt/uncle) went through, he developed an irrational fear for the present situation and fulfilled a prophecy. Was he still wrong, yes, but will he ever emotionally understand what he did, no. One day, he will most likely regret it.

 

Tojaz - does this sound plausible in your situation? Even an experience that a friend has can affect the emotional center of the brain and affect someone's thinking...the internal factor becoming fear. For example, my mother could watch a soap opera and when my father came home, she reacted out of fear that he was going to be exactly like that cheating scum.

 

I don't know, maybe I'm off base or too way out there with the thinking, but I know fear is one of my internal factors to my Dragon. The history/experience has been that my father left, both of my husbands left so I continue a self-fulfilling prophecy in reaction to that past emotional event. I put up walls to protect myself due to fear. Thinking becomes irrational when that experience presents itself in the present situation.

[tojaz]

Your not off base Trippi, theres a lot of sense there and yes fear plays a big part. Just I think the analogy is starting to get confusing as to what I'm talking about, and yes it happens in all kinds of situations and relationships.

 

I think you and Gunny see the dragon as internal to you when in fact I'm seeing it as externalizing something, passing the buck to someone else so to speak.

 

 

Disclaimer, not true to Gunnys story, complete fabrication! Just using his experiences as a jumping off point to illustrate.

 

Say a Marine (not Gunny) had been all the places Gunny describes, saw the things hes seen and has trouble coping when he returned home. Anger takes hold of him and he expresses it toward his wife and eventualy leaves her.

 

The Dragon would = his wife who through no concious fault of her own is bearing the brunt of that anger and finds herself abandoned.

 

The Internal factor = His experiences as a Marine negatively effecting his life through PTSD or any other situation that could develop.

 

None of this is concious mind you The wife wouldn't understand and the Marine would believe it all to be true...... Until she was removed from the equation.

 

TOJAZ

[trippi1432]

I think I am understanding this a bit better, but how does externalizing the dragon help with moving forward? Depression (which is where Gunny and I are working our ways out of with the help of Doctors) is typically the internalization of the event or the inability to handle a "crisis" anymore because a person is not able to solve or fix it.

 

For example, Self worth in the Here and Now (and don't take that title offensively please - if I offend, I don't mean to. ).

 

Picture a giant circle - now put all the hats you wear inside that circle....all the responsibilities that you and your wife took on during the relationship....Grocer, Advisor, Cook, Student, mechanic, landscaper, referee/coach, lover, host/hostess, maid, electrician, accountant, plumber, nurturer and care-giver. I'm sure that there are plenty more.

 

Now, right outside of that circle, draw another bigger circle...this is the margin of safety. This is the area of what holds the marriage together....the things that the spouse likes to do (together or apart), but what keeps them happy inside. So, you could have bubble bath, relaxing dinners, exercise, ride bikes, walks, baking, fishing, pets, photography, drives, writing/poetry, music, gardening, meditating, watching movies, walking on nature trails. Plenty more to add to that as well.

 

Now, what happens when there is a crisis? That circle in the middle starts pushing into your margin of safety, no room for a crisis. Eventually the margin of safety is gone, or the couple starts compromising the margin of what will get them through, but never go back to fix that margin of safety. To me, that's the dragon....keeping the margin of safety alive, balanced but retractable once a crisis is over. Something my ex-husband I didn't do. Every time drama and chaos took over his or my margin of safety, it became a norm, until there was no margin left.

[Gunny376]

Your not off base Trippi, theres a lot of sense there and yes fear plays a big part. Just I think the analogy is starting to get confusing as to what I'm talking about, and yes it happens in all kinds of situations and relationships.

 

I think you and Gunny see the dragon as internal to you when in fact I'm seeing it as externalizing something, passing the buck to someone else so to speak.

 

 

Disclaimer, not true to Gunnys story, complete fabrication! Just using his experiences as a jumping off point to illustrate.

 

Say a Marine (not Gunny) had been all the places Gunny describes, saw the things hes seen and has trouble coping when he returned home. Anger takes hold of him and he expresses it toward his wife and eventualy leaves her.

 

The Dragon would = his wife who through no concious fault of her own is bearing the brunt of that anger and finds herself abandoned.

 

The Internal factor = His experiences as a Marine negatively effecting his life through PTSD or any other situation that could develop.

 

None of this is concious mind you The wife wouldn't understand and the Marine would believe it all to be true...... Until she was removed from the equation.

 

TOJAZ

 

Yea that would pretty much sum it up, that and walking thorogh life PO'd at the world and everyone in it.

 

Of course the XHEX was a disloyal, lying, selfish, narccastic. two-timeing, cheathing bitch? But that's beside the point.

 

When the boss made me choose either my job or getting help? That all pretty much begain to turn it around. I've been on the meds now for about two months. Gone through and dealing with the side effects of such. Went from not being able to sleep ~ to doing nothing but wanting to sleep.

 

TriCare Hummna ~ the health care provider for the military and retires have authorized 22 visists to Dr. V normally its eight and your done. Guess I've got a lot of dragons to slay.

 

But yea I get what your saying ~ to put it another way? Trying to answer the question "Why?" (Damned allergies! I've been dragging a sea bag full of those around with me for years and years ~ like dragging a dead horse and saddle around with you everywhere you go? Or a dragon)

 

Its like I told Dr. V ~ I want to be happy again! I want to be the care free, happy go lucky, could give a damn guy that I was back before I went into the Corps, got married, went through, experienced, saw, heard, felt......................before Life changed me.

 

The X wife, (I often call her the XHEX ~ but yea? I still love her ~ even though she's been gone twenty years. (Damned allergies make my eyes want to water) she's stilll clusless about a lot of things. I'm estranged from from my adult children for the same reasons.

 

There's a Hell of a lot they don't know? And I never told them.

 

Someone here made reference to their step-father having thunderstroms remind them of Vietnam (I can relate ~ arty strikes, nighttime air raids)

 

So many, many people in the Western Wrold have absolutely no comrehenstion let alone as to how damned good they have it.

 

"Freedom isn't Free!" are just words to some people ~ but not if you've had to go out a shead the blood, sweat, and tears for it! It cost you a wife and family for it?

 

The dragon to slay? Is "Why this doesn't make and damned sense!"