Staying for the kids...

[Fallen Angel]

Okay, so I went to the Infidelity board to read a thread tonight that was referenced in a thread here on OW/OM. (I do not often visit there but I was curious about the thread *shrug*)

 

I must say I am somewhat shocked by what I read there.

 

It seems the OP was conflicted about the position he was in after having found himself in an affair.

 

Several times on the thread he said he no longer felt as though he loved his wife. Numerous times he stated that he did not think he was capapble of "rekindling" the marriage, and did not think he wanted to. Numerous times he admitted that his main motivation for even considering an attempt at reconciliation was for his "oldest son" (I assume he means all of his children but for some reason the oldest son seems to have particular pull for him).

 

Many posters told him that he "owed it" to his children to stay in the marriage.

 

I was flabbergasted!

 

Is it not LS rhetortic that MM NEVER stay for the children? Is it not considered by the majority of LS posters that any MM who says that they are staying because they believe it is in the best interests of the children is lying and simply "stringing along" his OW?

 

It has certainly been told to me numerous times that My Sweetheart is using his child as "an excuse". So now I am confused!!

 

I mean, here is this MM who appears to be posting totally honest emotions and gutwrenchingly real internal conflicts and he is saying he is staying for his chil/children. And here are dozens of LS posters cheering him on and telling him that he owes it to the children to stay. (There were a handful pointing out that staying for the children is often more harmful than helpfull.)

 

So I am curious, which is it?

 

Do they sometimes stay simply for the children and becxause that is what they percieve to be in the best interests of the children? or is it all a big fat ball of cow poopie as is so often stated here??

 

**I already know where I stand, and I am sure that most of you know where I stand as well, but I have to admit extreme curiosity since so many of the people who have told me that My Sweetheart is "making excuses" were the same ones that were in that thread urging the OP(MM) to stay in his marriage for the sake of his children. (and while I have not finished the whole thread *it was a LONG one* they seem to have convinced him to stay in "the best interests of the child/children".)

[jwi71]

I think it would be curious to see if any posters said one thing here in the OW/OM forum and said the opposite over there....

 

And I STILL maintain a peaceful D house is FAR better than a tense/strained M which exists solely "for the kids".

 

Which thread? I don't go there too often any more...the reply's there take too long to type out and all...basically I'm lazy.

[MizzBlue72]

I agree with you FA.

I think that you should never stay for the kids, especially if the marriage is full of abuse or fighting.

[Fallen Angel]

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=223067

 

it is a hugely long thread which was posted some time ago (in fact I actually posted on it back in march when someone PMed me telling me how people were saying that the man's wife physically attacking him after he disclosed the affair was "understandable" but i only read the posts about her attacking him back then, not the whole thread).. the posts I am referring to about people telling him to stay because he owes it to his kids are scattered through the thread. I honestly am flabbergasted as I said, as it seemed so "out of character" coming from some of the very people who tell me that MM do not stay for the kids, so I thought it would make for interesting discussion.

[pureinheart]

I think it would be curious to see if any posters said one thing here in the OW/OM forum and said the opposite over there....

 

And I STILL maintain a peaceful D house is FAR better than a tense/strained M which exists solely "for the kids".

 

Which thread? I don't go there too often any more...the reply's there take too long to type out and all...basically I'm lazy.

 

I have seen this before...

 

I agree, although I do understand those that do stay for the kids. If it had not been for exDM I might not understand this. Being the mother, and the mother normally gets custody, it was easier on me concerning the emotional attachment issues, although as far as having all the rest, well...

 

ExDM loves his kids...his kids were his ENTIRE life (also grandkids). He knew that his ex would run him down and make him the bad guy...IMO they were both the "bad guys" at times...well, she did (she had been anyway for many years so that was a no brainer).

 

IMO I think a lot of guys stay in the bad M for the kids...sometimes these households are peaceful and civil though which is good. ExDM's household was always a mess:eek:.

 

It's so easy to talk mess, but it is hard on these guys, there is great conflict.

[AltF4]

UGH. I hate when people say that. To be honest, I'm glad my mother kicked my sorry father's butt to the curb. But I would have so much rather he decided that the marriage/family thing wasn't for him before he cheated on her, emotionally abused her (she'd literally sit in her closet and cry so I couldn't see her), and finally brought home a disease. We had a much better life because he didn't "stay" for me, and she didn't try to make him.

 

If my H and I ever get to the point where either of us is in an affair, the last thing I'd want either of us to do is "stay for the kids." Wouldn't that be horrible? To be in a loveless marriage forever? I'd rather the chance to be free to find someone who can love me like I deserve, and I'd rather my H have that same opportunity.

 

I think that's one of the reasons I hate cheating so much. Because one half of the marriage is getting their love and companionship from outside the marriage, while the other half is??? If it's an open marriage, then great. But to leave your spouse out in the cold is just another form of emotional abuse, imo.

 

I know, life is never that black and white. I'm learning.

[pureinheart]

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=223067

 

it is a hugely long thread which was posted some time ago (in fact I actually posted on it back in march when someone PMed me telling me how people were saying that the man's wife physically attacking him after he disclosed the affair was "understandable" but i only read the posts about her attacking him back then, not the whole thread).. the posts I am referring to about people telling him to stay because he owes it to his kids are scattered through the thread. I honestly am flabbergasted as I said, as it seemed so "out of character" coming from some of the very people who tell me that MM do not stay for the kids, so I thought it would make for interesting discussion.

 

Wow....the first part of the thread was quite verbally abusive.

 

I would venture to say that this was not the only time his W was physically/emotionally abusive to him, as he seemed to be comfortable with abuse and negative communication directed at him, he handled it way too well.

 

Think about it FA, it's ok to verbally and emotionally abuse due to the thinking that "they deserve it", although an EMA is wrong. Either they are both wrong, or they are both right. What you are seeing is consistantly inconsistant. As you have pointed out, the thread clearly proves this.

 

Oh yes...I do have a feeling this will be an interesting discussion

Edited May 24, 2010 by pureinheart

[jj33]

FA I think everyones values are different and there is no one stock answer.

 

Some people feel extreme guilt over leaving their children or couldnt live with themselves if they were in a position where they couldnt be a part of their daily life no matter what the cost.

 

Others are using it as an excuse.

 

But that doesnt matter. Where are YOU in all this? Your life is not about this man and his choices and his family. Its about what YOU want and are not getting which is a full time relationship with this man.

 

The questoin is are you ready to stay for 5, 10-15 years or however long because he is staying for the children?

 

Even if its true in his case, and lets beleive that it is. Where does that leave you? Waiting waiting waiting and enjoyin what little time you have together only to find perhaps that when teh time comes there is another reason not to leave another very valid reason, college tuition, job loss, illness in the family, worries about retirement.

 

There are always reasons not to leave. Very valid reasons. The question is whether you are going to sacrifice your life to his choices just to spend time with him when he is able. Im not saying you shouldnt, the choice is yours, but you may look back in 5, 10 years and say what did I do. I have spent my life waiting by the phone.

 

With no disrespect to me these are situations in which the OW is hiding from her life. If you arent getting what you need and it could be year until (maybe possibly) you do, you are saying this is my life I dont have to go out and make a real life for myself because I have my life, my role is to sit and wait by the phone in case he is free. It is a very nuanced way of copping out on yourself.

 

If you were happy with the situation and happy to have a part time relationship that would be one thing. If on the other hand you are waiting wondering (as you clearly seem to be or you wouldnt care if the reasons were true) then I think you need to take responsibility for your choices and not make it all about him.

 

Hang in there sweetie I know its difficult.

[silverplanets]

saying "I am staying because of the kids" and saying "I have DECIDED to stay, because it is what I WANT because I believe it is best for my children" are surely two VERY different things !

 

The first one puts the responsibilty for staying on to someone else (their kids no less !!!) the second one says that they have CHOSEN to stay !!!

 

The first one is surely just good old fashioned classic deflection .... designed to steer one away from the reality that it WAS their decision.

 

The kids may be the reason, but the decision , the decision is all with the individual.

 

 

C

[reboot]

The answer to most of life's questions is "it depends". Nothing is ever absolute.

 

Will a man stay in a marriage to a woman he no longer loves just for his kids? Often, yes.

 

Will a man stay in a marriage to a woman he no longer loves just for his kids if he has found love elsewhere? Not so often, no.

 

That's not to say that a man that won't leave doesn't love his OW, just that most men will move heaven and earth to be with the woman they love.

[bentnotbroken]

I think the "owe" it to the children to do the right thing is bull. IMO that means doing what is right by the BS. That is honoring the vows they took in truth and respect. If they can't do that....leave. "For the KIDS" without true commitment to reconciliation(while keeping some on the side) is a sign of a coward who doesn't respect anyone...most of all themselves.

[Fallen Angel]

FA I think everyones values are different and there is no one stock answer.

 

Some people feel extreme guilt over leaving their children or couldnt live with themselves if they were in a position where they couldnt be a part of their daily life no matter what the cost.

 

Others are using it as an excuse.

 

But that doesnt matter. Where are YOU in all this? Your life is not about this man and his choices and his family. Its about what YOU want and are not getting which is a full time relationship with this man.

 

The questoin is are you ready to stay for 5, 10-15 years or however long because he is staying for the children?

 

Even if its true in his case, and lets beleive that it is. Where does that leave you? Waiting waiting waiting and enjoyin what little time you have together only to find perhaps that when teh time comes there is another reason not to leave another very valid reason, college tuition, job loss, illness in the family, worries about retirement.

 

There are always reasons not to leave. Very valid reasons. The question is whether you are going to sacrifice your life to his choices just to spend time with him when he is able. Im not saying you shouldnt, the choice is yours, but you may look back in 5, 10 years and say what did I do. I have spent my life waiting by the phone.

 

With no disrespect to me these are situations in which the OW is hiding from her life. If you arent getting what you need and it could be year until (maybe possibly) you do, you are saying this is my life I dont have to go out and make a real life for myself because I have my life, my role is to sit and wait by the phone in case he is free. It is a very nuanced way of copping out on yourself.

 

If you were happy with the situation and happy to have a part time relationship that would be one thing. If on the other hand you are waiting wondering (as you clearly seem to be or you wouldnt care if the reasons were true) then I think you need to take responsibility for your choices and not make it all about him.

 

Hang in there sweetie I know its difficult.

 

jj,

 

Thanks for your kindness and concern but you do not need to feel concerned for me wasting my life away anticipating his next call. That is far from the reality that is my life. In fact, I would say if one of us sits around waiting it is him.

 

I live a very full life regardless of if he is around or not. I work two jobs, I have three kids and share in all of their "adventures". I have several good friends whom I spend time with when I have a free moment or two. I take myself out for lunch when I want to go, even if I go only with a good book.

 

In fact, he often finds himself tagging along to something I already had planned if he wants to spend time with me. I do not break my plans because it is now a convienent time for him. That is to me.

 

As to if I will choose to "wait it out" until his child is grown. I honestly do not know. I may, or I may wake up tomorrow and decide that I want to move on with my life completely without him. Certainly my life is not standing still right now!

 

I do evaluate daily if TODAY I am getting what I need from this relationship. I ask myself if I am content and satisfied with what I have today, in this moment. Most often the answer is yes. On those days when it is not, I let him know what I need, and I expect him to give it to me. of course he has the option of chosing not to, however he knows that the consequence may be that I leave the relationship. He has yet to fail to meet my need.

 

I do not now, nor will I ever "force his hand" and make him choose between what he percieves as his duty to his child/family and myself. He must come to that decision of his own accord, and I know how he feels about his responsibilty as a father. If there comes a time when he feels he has done his duty and is ready to be in a full-time committed relationship with me then great. If not, then I am prepared to move on. The timing of our making those decisions may or may not work to the benefit of our relationship.

 

He has the right to choose to stay in his marriage for whatever his reasons are. i have the choice to decide to stay in our relationship for whatever my reasons are. We both have the choice to end our relationship at anytime that we are not getting our needs met. That could be tomorrow, or next week or next year. I do not know. I do know that for today I want to stay in our relationship. I do know that I will not always be content with the status quo. I do know that he is fully aware of the consequences of his actions and/or inactions in that he knows that even if I choose to "wait it out" until his child is grown I will not be willing to wait beyond that time. *shrug*

 

I do not sacrifice much in our relationship. I do not "miss out" on life because of it. I refuse to sit around and pine away doing nothing. I am worth more than that, and I know it, and so does he. (which is why he so often joins me in my plans )

[PhoenixRise]

I participated in that thread.

 

I disagree with the characterization that people were cheerleeading this MM to stay in the M for the sake of the children. The vast majority of people, including me, told him to get out of the M if he was unhappy, didn't love his wife, and wanted to be with somebody else. Many people, including me, told him his kids would adjust to a divorce just fine.

 

But here we had a MM who said within his first couple of posts that he was unable to make a decision, and also that he was deliberately doing as much damage in the M to make his W kick HIM out. So the majority of the posts told him to man up, make a decision and quit hurting people on purpose just to avoid responsibility.

 

I also disagree that anybody condoned the wife's abuse after dday finally happened. People said they understood her anger and hurt, but many of those same people also said if she ever hit him again he should have her locked up.

 

This was not a MM deciding to stay because of the children. This was a MM to afraid to make a decision and trying to force the wife to take the decision out of his hands and kick him out so that he wouldn't be RESPONSIBLE for a decision.

Edited May 24, 2010 by PhoenixRise

[Fallen Angel]

I participated in that thread.

 

I disagree with the characterization that people were cheerleeading this MM to stay in the M for the sake of the children. The vast majority of people, including me, told him to get out of the M if he was unhappy, didn't love his wife, and wanted to be with somebody else. Many people, including me, told him his kids would adjust to a divorce just fine.

 

But here we had a MM who said within his first couple of posts that he was unable to make a decision, and also that he was deliberately doing as much damage in the M to make his W kick HIM out. So the majority of the posts told him to man up, make a decision and quit hurting people on purpose just to avoid responsibility.

 

I also disagree that anybody condoned the wife's abuse after dday finally happened. People said they understood her anger and hurt, but many of those same people also said if she ever hit him again he should have her locked up.

 

This was not a MM deciding to stay because of the children. This was a MM to afraid to make a decision and trying to force the wife to take the decision out of his hands and kick him out so that he wouldn't be RESPONSIBLE for a decision.

 

I agree that in the beginning of the thread many people told him to leave. But it appeared to me (In My opinion) that once he said that he may try to stick it out and attempt to reconcile because of his child, there were numerous voices that told him he owed it to his children to stay the course.

 

Only after he kept reiterating that he could not find any love left for his wife, and would only be going through the motions, did the general trend turn back towards telling him he should leave the marriage.

 

I was just shocked at the veering off into "stay for your kids" and I thought it would be an interesting discussion, as it appears to me that some people do think that there are times when this is a valid option.

 

I also will say that I stand by what I originally felt about the "condoning" of physical violence in that the "understanding" for this woman who committed domestic violence was wrong and was a double standard in that i am sure the women who posted their "understanding" would not have been as understanding if the situation were such that it was a man attacking and punching and attempting to rip apart his wife's genitals after her disclosing an affair.

Edited May 24, 2010 by Fallen Angel

[PhoenixRise]

HMMMM

 

It's a long thread and maybe I missed something, but it seemed to me that people told the OP of that thread that he owed it to his wife and children to do the right thing and end the affair. Meaning divorce the wife if he didn't want to stay (and many many people told him to just man up and leave the wife) or stop cheating, and deliberately hurting the wife, if he decided to stay.

 

I didn't see anybody leading the charge for an intact marriage/family at all costs.

 

I would say that if the OP posted that he was deciding to stay in the marriage and make it work then some posters may have started posting to him about that since he said that is what he wanted, but other posters kept encouraging him look deeper and to be honest with himself and with everybody else in his life, including his wife.

 

IMO that OP got a lot of good advice from people on all sides of the triangle

[reboot]

I guess it's pretty easy for a woman to not understand "staying for the kids" since you rarely have that worry. You get the kids 90% of the time. We men love our children just as much as you. We don't want to be separated from them.

[jthorne]

I participated in that thread quite a lot, and remember a great deal of it. I will have to disagree with you on the premise of your thread.

 

I do not recall anyone telling him that he needed to make a decision based solely upon the children. I recall him being encouraged to make a decision PERIOD. (Which he still hasn't done, last time I heard.) I recall him being advised to base his decision on many factors- his R with his W, the possibility of reconcilliation where both could be happy, his ability to leave his OW out of the equation. other factors as well.

 

If anyone encouraged him to stay in his unhappy marriage solely for the children, it was a small minority.

[xxoo]

I agree that in the beginning of the thread many people told him to leave. But it appeared to me (In My opinion) that once he said that he may try to stick it out and attempt to reconcile because of his child, there were numerous voices that told him he owed it to his children to stay the course.

 

There is a huge difference between ending an affair (NC), revealing it to the BS, and attempting reconciliation "for the kids" (in hopes that real love between the parents will be rediscovered), and staying in a marriage "for the kids" while continuing to having a longterm affair.

 

If a WS decides to end an affair and give their marriage an honest chance (with MC and full disclosure), I think that is a valid choice. If/when it becomes clear that there is no hope of reconciliation, and the parents are miserable together, and one partner or the other is having an affair, then it is no longer valid to stay "for the kids". That environment is poison for kids.

[bentnotbroken]

I just went back and read that whole long azz thread...and I didn't see what FA is talking about. Hundreds of responses and I didn't see it. Maybe I skimmed too fast, but even if I did, I wouldn't have missed "ALL" those people encouraging him to stay for the kids. 95% of what I read was telling him the kindest thing he could do was tell the truth and set his wife free. Not sure what you saw, but it would be helpful if you pointed out all those posts telling him to stay.

[PhoenixRise]

Just looking back through that thread, I see people telling the OP he owed it to his wife, his children, his AP, and to himself to make a decision.

 

I don't see anybody telling him to stay with his wife only for the sake of the children.

[reboot]

People mostly see what they want to see.

[bentnotbroken]

Just looking back through that thread, I see people telling the OP he owed it to his wife, his children, his AP, and to himself to make a decision.

 

I don't see anybody telling him to stay with his wife only for the sake of the children.

 

 

Unless she is talking about JJ encouraging him to take his time to heal his "split :rolleyes:self". Everyone else was telling him what a punk coward he was for gas lighting his wife.

[John Who]

I am not a believer in staying together for the kids,although some people who find themselves in a affair use that saying as a cop out or to stall out.

 

This is a difficult choice for many people and not everyone will make the same choice to stay for the kids or not to stay for the kids.

 

Me personally if the love is gone with the spouse and we are living together no communication,quiet,lonly,arguing,I would never want my child to live in a home like that,it is not fair,it does something to a child to see his/her parents arguing,crying ,hurt, daily.I think children would much rather see their parents happy and loved even if they are not under the same roof.

[Woman In Blue]

I think alot of married people in affairs use the kids as an excuse to stay right where they want to stay - sitting at a grand buffet with all the cake they could ever possibly eat sitting right in front of them.

 

I'm not a BW, but I certainly wouldn't want my husband to stay with me just for the kids. I don't need a man that bad, thank you.

[bittersweet memories]

Okay, so I went to the Infidelity board to read a thread tonight that was referenced in a thread here on OW/OM. (I do not often visit there but I was curious about the thread *shrug*)

 

I must say I am somewhat shocked by what I read there.

 

It seems the OP was conflicted about the position he was in after having found himself in an affair.

 

Several times on the thread he said he no longer felt as though he loved his wife. Numerous times he stated that he did not think he was capapble of "rekindling" the marriage, and did not think he wanted to. Numerous times he admitted that his main motivation for even considering an attempt at reconciliation was for his "oldest son" (I assume he means all of his children but for some reason the oldest son seems to have particular pull for him).

 

Many posters told him that he "owed it" to his children to stay in the marriage.

 

I was flabbergasted!

 

Is it not LS rhetortic that MM NEVER stay for the children? Is it not considered by the majority of LS posters that any MM who says that they are staying because they believe it is in the best interests of the children is lying and simply "stringing along" his OW?

 

It has certainly been told to me numerous times that My Sweetheart is using his child as "an excuse". So now I am confused!!

 

I mean, here is this MM who appears to be posting totally honest emotions and gutwrenchingly real internal conflicts and he is saying he is staying for his chil/children. And here are dozens of LS posters cheering him on and telling him that he owes it to the children to stay. (There were a handful pointing out that staying for the children is often more harmful than helpfull.)

 

So I am curious, which is it?

 

Do they sometimes stay simply for the children and becxause that is what they percieve to be in the best interests of the children? or is it all a big fat ball of cow poopie as is so often stated here??

 

**I already know where I stand, and I am sure that most of you know where I stand as well, but I have to admit extreme curiosity since so many of the people who have told me that My Sweetheart is "making excuses" were the same ones that were in that thread urging the OP(MM) to stay in his marriage for the sake of his children. (and while I have not finished the whole thread *it was a LONG one* they seem to have convinced him to stay in "the best interests of the child/children".)

 

 

So dramatic... what are you talking about? I see BS giving him a little bit of everything some told him to leave, some to stay. Like everyone that post here on LS nobody always agrees. Not all BS agrees like not all OW agree on everything. Whats new?