Staying for the kids...

[MizFit]

Marriage is suppose to be for life That concept is going down drain.This world is getting to the point nobody cares who's married to who. what they want is what they do no matter who it hurts.If a person decides to work it out for their children more power to them and if they can do honest and with out hurting the kids fine.Some people decide their children is worth more then their happiness or the OP.who knows and who are we to stop them.I keep trying to keep my marriage together I want my grandchildren to have Grandparents like I did they are attached to my husband and if we devoice it wont be the same.After this I even want to try harder I cringe at the thought of their little hearts breaking. My children and grandchildren mean more to me then myself.wow Im being am emotional good night guys.

 

I, as the child of parents who should have been divorced, cringe at the thoughts of my mother wasting her life being miserable so I could have a 'normal' upbringing. I see a woman now who wanted to travel a little...a woman who wanted pursue creative interests...a woman who wanted to be loved. She had none of it and now with illnesses she hasn't an opportunity to seek those things. I am sorry she thought more of me than she did herself...that breaks my heart.

[califnan]

Marriage is suppose to be for life That concept is going down drain.This world is getting to the point nobody cares who's married to who. what they want is what they do no matter who it hurts.If a person decides to work it out for their children more power to them and if they can do honest and with out hurting the kids fine.Some people decide their children is worth more then their happiness or the OP.who knows and who are we to stop them.I keep trying to keep my marriage together I want my grandchildren to have Grandparents like I did they are attached to my husband and if we devoice it wont be the same.After this I even want to try harder I cringe at the thought of their little hearts breaking. My children and grandchildren mean more to me then myself.wow Im being am emotional good night guys.

 

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Scattered, God will bless you for keeping your marriage together .. Marriage is one of the most powerful forces of society - that's why the devil is trying to destroy it ..

[MizFit]

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Scattered, God will bless you for keeping your marriage together .. Marriage is one of the most powerful forces of society - that's why the devil is trying to destroy it ..

 

I agree with you that marriage is a powerful force of society...however, society changes along with the people in it. The world is not the same place it was when marriage began...we no longer have children so there are hands to help on the farm...we no longer buy brides with a dowry...we no longer have a society where women aren't able to leave an abusive home...we no longer have a society where even a basic education for our children isn't available.

 

I agree with the sanctity of marriage, but at the end of the day it should not be put on a pedestal and revered in an unfaltering fashion. It should be respected and protected by those in it...if it isn't and it is turning everything around and in it toxic then it does no good to stay. If both parties truly want it to work and fix themselves and in turn those around them then marvelous...but you can not do it and say it was for someone else. That is putting a tremendous and unfair burden on them.

 

I wish you all the best Scattrd and I hope it all works wonderfully for you. I am not saying you shouldn't try your very hardest to make things work, but at the end of the day it needs to be for YOU, not for children and grandchildren. Very best to you...

[OWoman]

Agreed. Like another poster, my parents should have divorced 20 years before they actually did. They got D at ~30 years. I was an adult and was relieved and upset at the same time. They HATED and resented each other. Some people say that parents should divorce when the yelling and arguing is constant, etc... That happened in my house from time to time and the verbal arguments were vicious.

 

But what was really awful? The quiet seething, the resentment so thick it became near hatred in the end. The house was divided. The child who was 'too much' like one parent was ignored, while the other favored. They talked trash about the other parent to us kids. Things were always polarized. We never even sat down and had dinner as a family. Everyone went to their separate corners.

 

They wanted to maintain some sick 50s ideal of a middle class home. And to outsiders, they pulled it of. I cant tell you how many messages I get from people who saw us as perfect from the outside because they were so well able to pull off this sick image for the few hours I had a friend over. Everyone I grew up with is so surprised that this perfect marriage ended after so long. I tell the stories and they are floored!

 

I know, though, that us kids would have been better off if they had called it quits. That's really the bottom line.

 

I can so relate to this!! I lived it, too.

[OWoman]

Recently, a new study, survey regarding children and divorce concluded this:

 

It is not whether parents are married or divorced; it is how much ACRIMONY exists in the marriage OR the divorce.

 

Be married OR divorced amicably, the kids should adjust fine.

 

It is the tension between the parents that messes them up for life, not the marriage or the divorce per se.

 

I imagine it is assumed, naturally, that a person engaged in an affair, is often emotionally absent from his/her spouse, which could create tension in the spouse and therefore, cause lifelong problems for the children.

 

Or, a person could be unhappily married, argue often and create tension in the house. Children have osmosis with their parents; they feel what you feel whether you realize it or not.

 

It is never what you say, it is how you act that they pick up on. If you are happy, and happy with each other, that is what they will be.

 

So the greatest gift you can give your children is to be happily married or happily divorced.

 

Anything less than that just messes them up long term.

 

While I agree with the gist of this post, I disagree with the assumption I've bolded, above. During my father's A, the tension eased considerably in the house - he became emotionally accessible for the first time ever - not to my mother, who was as hostile or withdrawn as always, but to us kids. We got to see a side of him we'd never seen before, and to realise that there was actually a person in there, underneath all that depression and hurt.

 

But we still wished they would split - and they did, as soon as we were grown - but too late for us to have a shot at a "normal", or even a happy, childhood.

[Spark1111]

I think the most important aspect of parenting is identifying what will make you, the mother, happy.

 

An old psych chestnut: Show me a strong, confident and HAPPY mother (Sorry Dads) and I will show you successful, independent children!

 

Or, a newer version: "If Momma isn't happy, ain't nobody happy!"

 

So, if Dad is a willing participant in making Momma happy, the family unit thrives..... I would assume Dad would have to be happy to do this.

 

If Dad does not care about Mom's happiness, well a different set of problems occur.

 

But Momma has to be happy. If she is depressed everyone feels it, like a yoke around their necks.

 

To what extent an affair infringes on either Mom or Dad's happiness could certainly vary for each situation. Some parental relationships could be improved; others not so much.

[MizFit]

I think the most important aspect of parenting is identifying what will make you, the mother, happy.

 

An old psych chestnut: Show me a strong, confident and HAPPY mother (Sorry Dads) and I will show you successful, independent children!

 

Or, a newer version: "If Momma isn't happy, ain't nobody happy!"

 

So, if Dad is a willing participant in making Momma happy, the family unit thrives..... I would assume Dad would have to be happy to do this.

 

If Dad does not care about Mom's happiness, well a different set of problems occur.

 

But Momma has to be happy. If she is depressed everyone feels it, like a yoke around their necks.

 

To what extent an affair infringes on either Mom or Dad's happiness could certainly vary for each situation. Some parental relationships could be improved; others not so much.

 

Absolutely spot on Spark...if Mom is happy and Dad is part of that happiness then all seems good. If Mom is upset there goes the house.

 

I'm a firm believer in the marital (co hab) relationship being the primary in the house...if that fails then all else is doomed to fail, at least to a degree. I know that probably sounds like the parents are selfish and maybe they should be, but if that falls apart everything crumbles around them. No matter how they shore things up everyone feels the house coming to bits...

[OWoman]

An old psych chestnut: Show me a strong, confident and HAPPY mother (Sorry Dads) and I will show you successful, independent children!

 

I guess that explains why only one of us siblings made it to "successful and independent"...

 

... but also why my kids are thriving

 

Spark - do you think that this needs to be about the MOTHER though, or is "mother" just shorthand for "primary caregiver"?

[OWoman]

'm a firm believer in the marital (co hab) relationship being the primary in the house...if that fails then all else is doomed to fail, at least to a degree. I know that probably sounds like the parents are selfish and maybe they should be, but if that falls apart everything crumbles around them. No matter how they shore things up everyone feels the house coming to bits...

 

Agreed! I've always felt that fetishising parental Rs is not only deeply pathological, it is also not constructive.

[reboot]

Boy is this going to be unpopular.....

 

The phrase (and I so hate it) "if mom ain't happy ain't nobody happy" is pathetic drivel invented by selfish women.

 

A healthy family unit does not merely depend on "mom" being happy. A family is about compassion, and sacrifice, and love. It's about everyone getting as many needs met as possible. It's never about selfishness.

 

Let the bashing begin.

[Fallen Angel]

Boy is this going to be unpopular.....

 

The phrase (and I so hate it) "if mom ain't happy ain't nobody happy" is pathetic drivel invented by selfish women.

 

A healthy family unit does not merely depend on "mom" being happy. A family is about compassion, and sacrifice, and love. It's about everyone getting as many needs met as possible. It's never about selfishness.

 

Let the bashing begin.

 

No bashing here. I totally agree.

 

I see that many people keep talking about how horrible it is when someone stays for the kids. I am reading about long violent arguments, devestated and crushed souls. But what about all those other relationships where the parents really do genuinely like each other, can live under the same roof peacefully, but they both understand that the passion is gone, and are content to stay (even when one is in an affair) until the kids are grown and then when they have "done their duty" for the family, to split amicably and peacefully?

 

Is there no one here who experienced a childhood like that?

[torranceshipman]

Given that everyone who posts on this website isn't actually the same person, you are obviously going to get lots of different responses. So there is little point in asking 'which is it'? But the majority of people on this board balk at the staying for the kids thing, based on their own experiences of it being a BS excuse for the most part, and they are recounting their own experience, which is valuable to listen to. Some people might say that it is good to stay for the kids but I wonder if many of them have ever been involved in an A and realize the fallout of 'staying for the kids' but continuing with an A?

 

I would expect those who suggest staying for the kids aren't actually advocating continuation of the A! - so in terms of 'which is it' I guess they are closest to 'stay with the W and don't have an A', but that is not what happens on this board...the MM stays for the kids AND has an A which is a) destructive, particularly to anyone's kids that find out, so not really for the kids at all, and b) an excuse to allow himself to continue enjoying an A whilst cheating the OW and the family unit simultaneously so that he can have his fun at everyone else's expense.

 

So I guess you can work out which side of the fence your sweetheart sits on - he chooses to stay with his family AND have an A with you, long term, so he is doing that for himself, not for the kids or for anyone else.

[jennie-jennie]

No bashing here. I totally agree.

 

I see that many people keep talking about how horrible it is when someone stays for the kids. I am reading about long violent arguments, devestated and crushed souls. But what about all those other relationships where the parents really do genuinely like each other, can live under the same roof peacefully, but they both understand that the passion is gone, and are content to stay (even when one is in an affair) until the kids are grown and then when they have "done their duty" for the family, to split amicably and peacefully?

 

Is there no one here who experienced a childhood like that?

 

This would be the kind of arrangement my MM is looking at. They have a generally good marriage, they do like each other, none of them is prone to fighting or arguments, but she pretty much lost her interest in sex years ago and he is now sexually and romantically exclusive with me. My MM is thinking that he does not want to cause additional harm to his family by breaking it up. Enough harm is being done already by him having an extramarital relationship, and the best he can do to minimize additional harm in his opinion is staying put and providing and caring for those he loves, ie his wife and his children.

 

I too am interested in if anyone has lived as a child through this scenario.

[jennie-jennie]

Given that everyone who posts on this website isn't actually the same person, you are obviously going to get lots of different responses. So there is little point in asking 'which is it'? But the majority of people on this board balk at the staying for the kids thing, based on their own experiences of it being a BS excuse for the most part, and they are recounting their own experience, which is valuable to listen to. Some people might say that it is good to stay for the kids but I wonder if many of them have ever been involved in an A and realize the fallout of 'staying for the kids' but continuing with an A?

 

I would expect those who suggest staying for the kids aren't actually advocating continuation of the A! - so in terms of 'which is it' I guess they are closest to 'stay with the W and don't have an A', but that is not what happens on this board...the MM stays for the kids AND has an A which is a) destructive, particularly to anyone's kids that find out, so not really for the kids at all, and b) an excuse to allow himself to continue enjoying an A whilst cheating the OW and the family unit simultaneously so that he can have his fun at everyone else's expense.

 

So I guess you can work out which side of the fence your sweetheart sits on - he chooses to stay with his family AND have an A with you, long term, so he is doing that for himself, not for the kids or for anyone else.

 

Good point, torrant. Yes, this is the interesting question:

 

Is it in the kids' best interest to stay in the marriage if you are also staying in the extramarital relationship?

 

As I stated above, my MM believes the answer to this is YES.

[reboot]

I'd say the answer to that depends on how functional the family unit remains. If the family is happy and productive, then I don't know what the harm is.

 

I just think that would very rarely be the case. It's a rare affair where someone isn't getting hurt.

[Spark1111]

I guess that explains why only one of us siblings made it to "successful and independent"...

 

... but also why my kids are thriving

 

Spark - do you think that this needs to be about the MOTHER though, or is "mother" just shorthand for "primary caregiver"?

 

Interesting....yes, primary caregiver might be more appropriate today!

 

And your kids are thriving because you are!

[Spark1111]

Boy is this going to be unpopular.....

 

The phrase (and I so hate it) "if mom ain't happy ain't nobody happy" is pathetic drivel invented by selfish women.

 

A healthy family unit does not merely depend on "mom" being happy. A family is about compassion, and sacrifice, and love. It's about everyone getting as many needs met as possible. It's never about selfishness.

 

Let the bashing begin.

 

Well...actually, no. Like i said, it's a very old chestnut espoused by psychologists when the field was dominated by men and the primary caretaker was momma.

 

It still reamins true today with troubled youth, many of whom do not even know their fathers, or where poor socio-economics have created a society of single mother's raising children, especially sons:

 

Show me a strong, confident mother and a child's predictor of future success increases dramatically.

 

Or, the inverse: If Dad is a no good, absentee drug addict, the potential damage to a child's future is much, much less than if mom is the absentee, no-good drug addict.

[Spark1111]

I'd say the answer to that depends on how functional the family unit remains. If the family is happy and productive, then I don't know what the harm is.

 

I just think that would very rarely be the case. It's a rare affair where someone isn't getting hurt.

 

On this, we agree completely!

[reboot]

Well...actually, no. Like i said, it's a very old chestnut espoused by psychologists when the field was dominated by men and the primary caretaker was momma.

 

It still reamins true today with troubled youth, many of whom do not even know their fathers, or where poor socio-economics have created a society of single mother's raising children, especially sons:

 

Show me a strong, confident mother and a child's predictor of future success increases dramatically.

 

Or, the inverse: If Dad is a no good, absentee drug addict, the potential damage to a child's future is much, much less than if mom is the absentee, no-good drug addict.

 

Hey, it makes a good bumper sticker.

 

I just don't think it's a very good philosophy for running a family.

[Confused4Now]

Hi FA,

 

Just want to throw this in, and I doubt it will go over very well, although this is how I was raised:

 

I was my mothers pride and joy, later on in life my mother and I had our issues, but I understand now that it is because she wanted the best for me.

 

First off, no family is perfect...there are just various families that give "dysfunction" a new meaning.

 

My mother and dad were D'ed and they both did the best they could...like said before, no family is perfect...I went to the best schools, all of the classes like dance, singing, modeling, piano lessons, etc., let us just say, if I wanted it bad enough my mom and dad saw to it that it happened.

 

One major rule..now keep in mind ALL of MY needs were seen to first (which is what I think you do with your kids FA) although I was raised to mind my own business...their business was theirs and that was it.

 

This of course crossed over into adult life which saved my life many times.

 

IMO the mistake exDM and his exW made was letting their kids up in their business all the time. I think kids by nature are nosey because they are allowed to be.

 

You are NEVER going to do EVERYTHING right...my parents didn't, I haven't...but guess what..IT'S OKAY!!!!!!!!

 

I just want to tell you, you are doing a great job!!!! Thank you for not being perfect...and share THAT with your kids! Kids are about love, not perfect.

Great Post....I can relate to this very well. Let me add that I made the mistake of letting my kids know which honestly if MW actions would have shown that her words, I think things would be better today. Had I known that she'll still be with her H still now after 2 1/2 years after D-day I wouldn't have said anything. Now I'm not so excited in bringing this woman into my life after all the damage she's done. Which is why I date now and hope that I find that special person.

 

As for my kids....my ex and I focus on doing what's best for the kids. I do have one 14 year old girl still at home. So its challenging enough. I'm glad that my ex could put the past behind us.

[jennie-jennie]

I'd say the answer to that depends on how functional the family unit remains. If the family is happy and productive, then I don't know what the harm is.

 

I just think that would very rarely be the case. It's a rare affair where someone isn't getting hurt.

 

I do think this could be the case in my MM's family. He is a very gentle and caring man.

[stillafool]

I feel MM who say they are staying "for the kids" is lying. He is staying because he doesn't want to lose his possessions which include the kids. If he really gave a damn about his kids he wouldn't be cheating in the first place.

[Confused4Now]

I feel MM who say they are staying "for the kids" is lying. He is staying because he doesn't want to lose his possessions which include the kids. If he really gave a damn about his kids he wouldn't be cheating in the first place.

hahahahaa...Well I will agree with this....cause it was me for 2 years. I even said that early on my A. After I realized I wanted my freedom and happiness. SO trust me when I say I walked away from everything. Possessions especially.....

[xxoo]

Show me a strong, confident mother and a child's predictor of future success increases dramatically.

 

Or, the inverse: If Dad is a no good, absentee drug addict, the potential damage to a child's future is much, much less than if mom is the absentee, no-good drug addict.

 

I can't find it right now....but twice in the past 12 months I've heard the same story on NPR, and it each time I heard it I was shocked. Wish I could find it...

 

But the researcher was saying that they find the opposite to be true. That having an active, functioning dad had more influence on the healthful development of the children than an active, functioning mom. Basically, they said that, generally speaking, a great dad could compensate for a lousy mom, and the kids would be ok. But a great mom could not compensate for a lousy dad so well, and those kids had more trouble.

[califnan]

I can't find it right now....but twice in the past 12 months I've heard the same story on NPR, and it each time I heard it I was shocked. Wish I could find it...

 

But the researcher was saying that they find the opposite to be true. That having an active, functioning dad had more influence on the healthful development of the children than an active, functioning mom. Basically, they said that, generally speaking, a great dad could compensate for a lousy mom, and the kids would be ok. But a great mom could not compensate for a lousy dad so well, and those kids had more trouble.

 

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In a perfect world, both mother and father are needed .. But God gave us two of many things.. So that if one should shut down or be removed - the other would avail - but not necessarily compensate, just rise to need.