Staying for the kids...

[NoIDidn't]

Do they sometimes stay simply for the children and becxause that is what they percieve to be in the best interests of the children? or is it all a big fat ball of cow poopie as is so often stated here??

 

This taken from the OP. Typos and all. LOL.

 

I believe that "staying for the kids" is mostly an excuse given to the OW, because if they are maintaining an affair, they obviously don't have the interests of their children in mind, AT ALL.

 

Of course, there are people out there that are staying for the kids. But one can't make that claim while threatening the kids welfare by having an affair. And deny it all you (general) want, having an affair threatens everything that R touches. Everything, including the children's welfare.

[silverplanets]

Actually, I think it's for a much more selfish reason. Some men that stay for the kids stay not for the kid's wellbeing. They know kids are adaptable, and will adjust. They stay because they don't want to be away from their kids- they can't handle the every other weekends. JMO.

 

I agree ... if they stay it's because they want to ... the reason may be the kids but that's just the reason .. they stay because THEY want to.

 

And the converse is they don't leave because THEY don't want to !!!

 

The inner logic workings of any mental "spreadsheet" they use to make their decision is irrelevant .. they stay because THEY want to.

 

When they use the phrase "because ...." they are simply deflecting ...

 

C

[NoIDidn't]

I wanted to edit my post about there being people out there that are staying for the kids.

 

Most of the ones that I know staying for the kids, its a MUTUAL decision. A decision that both spouses made, either until a certain time, or that's just going to be the nature of their dealings with each other until one of them dies.

 

How many MM having secret affairs are doing so as part of a mutual decision? I would think that if the MM was really staying for the kids, the W would be in on it. And their affair wouldn't be something hidden, it would just not be thrown in her face. And most of the OP here claiming that the W knows, it seems to be thrown in her face in most disrespectful ways.

[PhoenixRise]

THIS thread is about the question the thread topic posed.

 

I only cited the other thread because it is what got me to wondering about what people truly believe as it seemed to me that what they believe was dependant upon the situation, and that it is not always even to those who most often claimed it to be so, as cut and dried as it appears.

 

 

I believe

 

IF there is love between the spouses

IF both spouses are willing to do the work to truly reconcile

IF there is a reasonable belief the spouses can have a healthy relationship

 

Then it makes sense and it can be in the best interest of the children to to try to recover a marriage.

 

But if those conditions are not met, it is never in the best interest of the children to stay and I don't believe it when someone who is not helping to create those conditions says they are staying for the children.

[reboot]

I believe that "staying for the kids" is mostly an excuse given to the OW, because if they are maintaining an affair, they obviously don't have the interests of their children in mind, AT ALL.

 

Of course, there are people out there that are staying for the kids. But one can't make that claim while threatening the kids welfare by having an affair. And deny it all you (general) want, having an affair threatens everything that R touches. Everything, including the children's welfare.

 

First, I am as opposed to affairs as anyone here.

 

That said, I seriously disagree with this. You're basically saying that a man or woman that has an affair doesn't care about their children or the welfare of those children. While that may sometimes, and I daresay rarely, be true, I highly doubt that it is very often true.

 

Loving ones children is innate. It's not a choice for most of us. Just because we might make other poor choices in our life doesn't change that.

 

When we say things like this we are merely attempting to vilify someone because we don't agree with the choices they've made.

 

In my humble opinion.

[NoIDidn't]

First, I am as opposed to affairs as anyone here.

 

That said, I seriously disagree with this. You're basically saying that a man or woman that has an affair doesn't care about their children or the welfare of those children. While that may sometimes, and I daresay rarely, be true, I highly doubt that it is very often true.

 

Loving ones children is innate. It's not a choice for most of us. Just because we might make other poor choices in our life doesn't change that.

 

When we say things like this we are merely attempting to vilify someone because we don't agree with the choices they've made.

 

In my humble opinion.

 

Hey, you are free to disagree. But since I was one of those children, I will stand by my opinion that the MP that has an affair is not thinking about their children's welfare, regardless of what they say.

 

You try having your father not come to important events because its the time he can sneak away to be with one of his OWs. Or having him come because he can then say he was there (for a few minutes and people saw him) and use your event to cover for the lies told to the betrayed.

 

I never said anything about LOVE for ones children. Loving someone and looking out for their best interests can be mutually exclusive.

[reboot]

Hey, you are free to disagree. But since I was one of those children, I will stand by my opinion that the MP that has an affair is not thinking about their children's welfare, regardless of what they say.

 

You try having your father not come to important events because its the time he can sneak away to be with one of his OWs. Or having him come because he can then say he was there (for a few minutes and people saw him) and use your event to cover for the lies told to the betrayed.

 

I never said anything about LOVE for ones children. Loving someone and looking out for their best interests can be mutually exclusive.

 

I was that child also. I also looked in vain for a man that never showed up. I watched my mother slowly die inside because of him.

 

But I also believe my father to be one of those rare cases. I refuse to believe that his behavior is the "norm".

 

Maybe I look at life through rose colored glasses. Maybe you're right and I'm wrong. I hope not.

[bentnotbroken]

First, I am as opposed to affairs as anyone here.

 

That said, I seriously disagree with this. You're basically saying that a man or woman that has an affair doesn't care about their children or the welfare of those children. While that may sometimes, and I daresay rarely, be true, I highly doubt that it is very often true.

 

Loving ones children is innate. It's not a choice for most of us. Just because we might make other poor choices in our life doesn't change that.

 

When we say things like this we are merely attempting to vilify someone because we don't agree with the choices they've made.

 

In my humble opinion.

 

Based only on the field that I work in, I wish this was true. While there are those of us who do love our children as much as our own breath, it isn't the case for a lot of people. They don't know how to love. For those who do love their children as much as our own breath, we still aren't(me included) healthy enough to put what is best for them first. My emotional instability allowed me to hurt my children with my actions, though I loved them enough to die for them.

 

Addicts, immature, and emotional unstable people I am sure love their children as much as they can in some situations...but that isn't always good enough to stop the destructive behaviors that impact our children in the short and certainly not before long term consequences take hold. While I do agree with you that a cheater may very well love their child with every fiber of their being, it is possible to feel that way and still chose to put your feelings first and hurt the children, just as other destructive behaviors that we parents exhibit do.

[NoIDidn't]

Oh, reboot. I'm not interested in being right, just sharing why I have my view.

 

It can't be good for any child's well-being to keep looking for a man that never comes. I remember those days all too well. And I certainly don't think that my well-being was being thought of when he was enjoying his moment with the woman of the moment.

[Fallen Angel]

This taken from the OP. Typos and all. LOL.

 

I believe that "staying for the kids" is mostly an excuse given to the OW, because if they are maintaining an affair, they obviously don't have the interests of their children in mind, AT ALL.

 

Of course, there are people out there that are staying for the kids. But one can't make that claim while threatening the kids welfare by having an affair. And deny it all you (general) want, having an affair threatens everything that R touches. Everything, including the children's welfare.

 

It was very late or very early, depending on how you see things for me here. (almost two a.m. on a day that had started for me at 6 a.m. the previous morning.) And I am the typo queen anyway, even when I am not tired.

 

I believe

 

IF there is love between the spouses

IF both spouses are willing to do the work to truly reconcile

IF there is a reasonable belief the spouses can have a healthy relationship

 

Then it makes sense and it can be in the best interest of the children to to try to recover a marriage.

 

But if those conditions are not met, it is never in the best interest of the children to stay and I don't believe it when someone who is not helping to create those conditions says they are staying for the children.

 

But if the love that exists between the spouses is more of a mutual respect for what each has been for the other in the past (and even in the present) ie, a fair spouse, a generally good person, a good parent to their children etc. and there is no major maritial dischord (no abuse, no constant verbal arguments) and the two parents both choose to stay in the marriage for the sake of the children despite the affair relationship being exposed; could it not be that they are doing what each thinks is in the best interests of the child.

 

I mean, the child obviously sees that the romantic love is not there between the parents. The parents sleep in separate rooms, live separate lives, but still function on the surface as an intact family unit for the sake of the children, could it not then be benficial that the child sees that their parents love them enough to do what they think is best for the childs welfare?

 

Could it not serve to teach a valuable lesson to the child that people should live up to their responsibilities and commitments rather than do what is easy or will make them happiest?

 

In my relationship there has long since been discovery of the affair. Yet both my sweetheart and his wife have chosen to maintain the status quo in the effort to provide their child with the best possible life.

 

We do not throw our affair in his wife's face, but neither do we sneak around in dark secluded spots for clandestine meetings to hide it. She knows the relationship is ongoing and chooses to ignore it and maintain her household intact. While I have never discussed it with her (and I will have to ask my sweetheart about any discussions he may have had with her about it) I do not for a moment guess that she plans to further their marriage beyond the time that is needed for their child to be "an adult".

 

So if the cards are out on the table, is it not possible that living in a no-passion but not toxic marriage could be what is best for the children?

[Fieldsofgold]

The answer to most of life's questions is "it depends". Nothing is ever absolute.

 

Will a man stay in a marriage to a woman he no longer loves just for his kids? Often, yes.

 

Will a man stay in a marriage to a woman he no longer loves just for his kids if he has found love elsewhere? Not so often, no.

 

That's not to say that a man that won't leave doesn't love his OW, just that most men will move heaven and earth to be with the woman they love.

 

This is very good.

[reboot]

But if the love that exists between the spouses is more of a mutual respect for what each has been for the other in the past (and even in the present) ie, a fair spouse, a generally good person, a good parent to their children etc. and there is no major maritial dischord (no abuse, no constant verbal arguments) and the two parents both choose to stay in the marriage for the sake of the children despite the affair relationship being exposed; could it not be that they are doing what each thinks is in the best interests of the child.

 

Yes

 

I mean, the child obviously sees that the romantic love is not there between the parents. The parents sleep in separate rooms, live separate lives, but still function on the surface as an intact family unit for the sake of the children, could it not then be benficial that the child sees that their parents love them enough to do what they think is best for the childs welfare?

 

Yes

 

Could it not serve to teach a valuable lesson to the child that people should live up to their responsibilities and commitments rather than do what is easy or will make them happiest?

 

Yes

 

So if the cards are out on the table, is it not possible that living in a no-passion but not toxic marriage could be what is best for the children?

 

Yes

 

 

Having agreed with everything you said, I do have to point out that I think the couples that could actually pull this off are rare indeed. But for those that can, yes, children are mostly better off with both parents.

[Snowflower]

The answer to most of life's questions is "it depends". Nothing is ever absolute.

 

Will a man stay in a marriage to a woman he no longer loves just for his kids? Often, yes.

 

Will a man stay in a marriage to a woman he no longer loves just for his kids if he has found love elsewhere? Not so often, no.

 

That's not to say that a man that won't leave doesn't love his OW, just that most men will move heaven and earth to be with the woman they love.

 

Thank you for writing this from the POV of a man.

 

It's what I've always observed IRL. And it's why I gave my fWH another chance...through his actions, he was moving mountains in an attempt to be with me.

 

If his actions had shown that he wanted to be with the OW, then I would have had to accept that and let him go.

 

Men are very easy to understand in this respect (no offense intended guys ).

 

Actions speak louder than words.

[reboot]

 

Men are very easy to understand in this respect (no offense intended guys ).

 

Actions speak louder than words.

 

No offense taken.

 

I don't think women always get this. Men are not nearly as emotionally complicated as women. We are much easier to read. Just pay attention to what we do, not so much what we say.

[NoIDidn't]

IMO, better off with both parents not also distracted by affairs.

[NoIDidn't]

No offense taken.

 

I don't think women always get this. Men are not nearly as emotionally complicated as women. We are much easier to read. Just pay attention to what we do, not so much what we say.

 

This is golden. Actions, not words.

 

My interpretation is off topic, so I will leave it at that.

[PhoenixRise]

FA

 

I think people who are selfless in the way you describe, people truly trying to do the best they can for their children, do not risk their children's well being by having affairs.

 

There is no way in the world anybody could seriously think it is in a child's best interest to demonstrate that marriage = cheating, taking time and resources away from the family, pretending, protecting the projected image of "happy family" while ignoring the reality, living a double life, lying, no authenticity.

 

I believe that people who continue affairs while claiming they can't/won't leave because of the children are more interested in protecting their image as a good parent than they are in actually being a good parent.

[ladydesigner]

Yes

 

 

 

Yes

 

 

 

Yes

 

 

 

Yes

 

 

Having agreed with everything you said, I do have to point out that I think the couples that could actually pull this off are rare indeed. But for those that can, yes, children are mostly better off with both parents.

 

I would have to agree Reboot. I believe I am in one of those marriages. While I feel there is still passion in my M, it still does not come close to the feelings I had developed for my XOM. The chemistry I had with XOM, and it wasn't the sexual kind, is a chemistry I have never experienced with ANYONE.

[Fallen Angel]

FA

 

I think people who are selfless in the way you describe, people truly trying to do the best they can for their children, do not risk their children's well being by having affairs.

 

There is no way in the world anybody could seriously think it is in a child's best interest to demonstrate that marriage = cheating, taking time and resources away from the family, pretending, protecting the projected image of "happy family" while ignoring the reality, living a double life, lying, no authenticity.

 

I believe that people who continue affairs while claiming they can't/won't leave because of the children are more interested in protecting their image as a good parent than they are in actually being a good parent.

 

I happen to disagree with the premise that the child is seeing the affair dynamic in play. The marriage was in the same position, emotionally distant, before there was an affair dynamic. The sleeping arrangements were the same, the separate lives under the same roof excepting when coming together for "family" activities. none of that has changed. If anything what the child is likely to have noticed is that dad smiles and laughs a bit more freely now.

 

I also happen to disagree that one is not a good parent simply because they are in the midst of an affair relationship. My sweetheart is very connected with his child's daily life, routines and activities. I know this through his words and his actions. And I have seen a sampling of his parenting style as he interacts with my children as he is also very involved in their daily lives, routines and activities. Or do you suspect that he is parenting my children more so than his own?

[xxoo]

But if the love that exists between the spouses is more of a mutual respect for what each has been for the other in the past (and even in the present) ie, a fair spouse, a generally good person, a good parent to their children etc. and there is no major maritial dischord (no abuse, no constant verbal arguments) and the two parents both choose to stay in the marriage for the sake of the children despite the affair relationship being exposed; could it not be that they are doing what each thinks is in the best interests of the child.

 

I mean, the child obviously sees that the romantic love is not there between the parents. The parents sleep in separate rooms, live separate lives, but still function on the surface as an intact family unit for the sake of the children, could it not then be benficial that the child sees that their parents love them enough to do what they think is best for the childs welfare?

 

Could it not serve to teach a valuable lesson to the child that people should live up to their responsibilities and commitments rather than do what is easy or will make them happiest?

 

In my relationship there has long since been discovery of the affair. Yet both my sweetheart and his wife have chosen to maintain the status quo in the effort to provide their child with the best possible life.

 

We do not throw our affair in his wife's face, but neither do we sneak around in dark secluded spots for clandestine meetings to hide it. She knows the relationship is ongoing and chooses to ignore it and maintain her household intact. While I have never discussed it with her (and I will have to ask my sweetheart about any discussions he may have had with her about it) I do not for a moment guess that she plans to further their marriage beyond the time that is needed for their child to be "an adult".

 

So if the cards are out on the table, is it not possible that living in a no-passion but not toxic marriage could be what is best for the children?

 

The fatal flaw with this logic is that openly cheating on your spouse is abusive and toxic. His wife might not be strong enough to leave right now, or ever, but that doesn't mean the situation isn't slowly destroying her self worth.

 

That said, I am open minded about "arrangements", if that is what is going on. But then, that arrangement would be agreed upon by all parties, and there would be no "affair".

[PhoenixRise]

I happen to disagree with the premise that the child is seeing the affair dynamic in play. The marriage was in the same position, emotionally distant, before there was an affair dynamic. The sleeping arrangements were the same, the separate lives under the same roof excepting when coming together for "family" activities. none of that has changed. If anything what the child is likely to have noticed is that dad smiles and laughs a bit more freely now.

 

I also happen to disagree that one is not a good parent simply because they are in the midst of an affair relationship. My sweetheart is very connected with his child's daily life, routines and activities. I know this through his words and his actions. And I have seen a sampling of his parenting style as he interacts with my children as he is also very involved in their daily lives, routines and activities. Or do you suspect that he is parenting my children more so than his own?

 

In your case isn't your MM a serial cheater? I may be remembering your story wrong, but if he is, I would bet that his cheating, before you, led to or increased the dynamic you describe.

 

 

 

In my comments that you quoted I was speaking generally. I have no idea really what your MM's children see or don't see. But based on other things you have posted, I think his children see more than you suspect.

 

I said people who are selfless enough to stay for the children don't risk their children's well being by staying in an affair. I didn't say he didn't love them. I am suggesting that the MP who stays in an affair is by his actions not making the well being of the children a priority. IMO it is more about protecting the WS image as a good parent, not about what is actually best for the children. Children need more than to have their wandering parent's clothing hanging in the closet in the marital home.

 

Also if everything you have said about your MM is true regarding the amount of time he spends at work/away, the amount of time he spends on line or on the phone with you when he is home, the amount of time he actually spends at your place, the amount of time he spends on your children and their activities....he is spending very little actual time with his own children. There are just not enough hours in the day.

Edited May 24, 2010 by PhoenixRise

[MizFit]

Raising hand here...me...I'm the kid whose parents stayed together when they should have split-in all honestly, probably before I was born.

 

Dad was a serial cheater and Mom was a 60s housewife who had no income, no help from the state, and parents who weren't able to offer her much in the line of help.

 

My brother and I always felt the strain and tension...eventually I was dumped into the middle of one of his affairs. We told her she should leave...she never did. We had years, as young adults, we hated our father.

 

On the other hand I took my son away from my toxic marriage when he was 3...I allowed full and free access to his dad, who never took it...and I have a well adjusted 22 year old, wonderful young man I call my son.

 

In an affair the kids are cheated on as wel as the BS...my dad cheated on me and my brother...I tell my MM he is cheating on his daughter...not many people agree with me, but they are...my opinion...

[Fallen Angel]

In your case isn't your MM a serial cheater? I may be remembering your story wrong, but if he is, I would bet that his cheating, before you, led to or increased the dynamic you describe.

 

He was a serial cheater. His previous affairs were ONS or short term NSAs. Both of which are hardly likely to create much of an "affair dynamic" as they would have taken little of his time and/or energy away from the family dynamic.

 

In my comments that you quoted I was speaking generally. I have no idea really what your MM's children see or don't see. But based on other things you have posted, I think his children see more than you suspect.

 

I said people who are selfless enough to stay for the children don't risk their children's well being by staying in an affair. I didn't say he didn't love them. I am suggesting that the MP who stays in an affair is by his actions not making the well being of the children a priority. IMO it is more about protecting the WS image as a good parent, not about what is actually best for the children. Children need more than to have their wandering parent's clothing hanging in the closet in the marital home.

 

But that is the point, his child has more than just his clothes hanging in the closet. His child has a father who is as involved in the child's life as time permits.

 

Also if everything you have said about your MM is true regarding the amount of time he spends at work/away, the amount of time he spends on line or on the phone with you when he is home, the amount of time he actually spends at your place, the amount of time he spends on your children and their activities....he is spending very little actual time with his own children. There are just not enough hours in the day.

 

That is precisely why his time with his child is so important to him, because it is limited. He works "away" the majority of the time. Often his job brings him to my town which sometimes affords him more time in my home than in his, hence the rather large amounts of time spent with me (and by the nature of the beast, my children)as oppsed to the amount of time spent with his child. He often has very limited time with his child, and will forego sleep and/or other activities (hanging out with the guys, golfing, reading, other pleasurable pursuits) in order to spend that time with his child.

 

He spent the majority of his child's life in the military, spent most of his child's life deployed and so the time that is left between now and when his child is grown is precious to him and something he is not willing to give up. (A mountain he will not move, if you will. *shrug*)

[PhoenixRise]

FallenAngel

 

Are you saying that his relationship with you does not take more time away from his children than he would be spending with them if he was not in an affair?

[PhoenixRise]

I wanted to add.

 

Serial cheating, even if it is short term affairs or one night stands, change the dynamic in a marriage and in a family.