Staying for the kids...

[Fallen Angel]

FallenAngel

 

Are you saying that his relationship with you does not take more time away from his children than he would be spending with them if he was not in an affair?

 

No, I can not in all good conscience say that. I am certain that his relationship with me (and his involvement in my children's lives as well) does often take time away from his child that he would otherwise have.

 

I just know that he is really trying his best to do what is best for EVERYONE involved, because he loves us all. *sigh*

[reboot]

FallenAngel

 

Are you saying that his relationship with you does not take more time away from his children than he would be spending with them if he was not in an affair?

 

Of course it does.

 

But does he still spend more time with them than he probably would if he left the marriage entirely?

 

Men are logical creatures.

[Fallen Angel]

I wanted to add.

 

Serial cheating, even if it is short term affairs or one night stands, change the dynamic in a marriage and in a family.

 

Perhaps, but I still assert that the maritial dynamic that exists today existed before MY involvement.

[jthorne]

That is precisely why his time with his child is so important to him, because it is limited. He works "away" the majority of the time. Often his job brings him to my town which sometimes affords him more time in my home than in his, hence the rather large amounts of time spent with me (and by the nature of the beast, my children)as oppsed to the amount of time spent with his child. He often has very limited time with his child, and will forego sleep and/or other activities (hanging out with the guys, golfing, reading, other pleasurable pursuits) in order to spend that time with his child.

 

He spent the majority of his child's life in the military, spent most of his child's life deployed and so the time that is left between now and when his child is grown is precious to him and something he is not willing to give up. (A mountain he will not move, if you will. *shrug*)

This would agree with what I said earlier... if a MM says he's staying because of the kids, it's because he values a full-time relationship with his children more than he values a full-time relationship with an OW. (Has very little to do with the BS and the M.)

 

So he tries to have it all.

[PhoenixRise]

No, I can not in all good conscience say that. I am certain that his relationship with me (and his involvement in my children's lives as well) does often take time away from his child that he would otherwise have.

 

I just know that he is really trying his best to do what is best for EVERYONE involved, because he loves us all. *sigh*

 

Thank you for your honesty here.

 

I disagree with you, but I get your POV

[PhoenixRise]

Of course it does.

 

But does he still spend more time with them than he probably would if he left the marriage entirely?

 

Men are logical creatures.

 

 

Reboot

 

That is the thing. I don't see it a logical. In many case in a divorce where visitation is ordered and exercised, the WS actually spends MORE quality time with the children, not less.

[PhoenixRise]

Perhaps, but I still assert that the maritial dynamic that exists today existed before MY involvement.

 

 

If he is a serial cheater, I will agree that your involvement is not the root cause of their marital dynamic.

[Fallen Angel]

This would agree with what I said earlier... if a MM says he's staying because of the kids, it's because he values a full-time relationship with his children more than he values a full-time relationship with an OW. (Has very little to do with the BS and the M.)

 

So he tries to have it all.

 

And I for one feel that he SHOULD value the relationship with his children above all other relationships in his life.

 

Which is why I could not ever deliver an ultimatum. Either I will stick it out with this man until he feels he has done his job as parent and can detatch from the maritial relationship while maintaining the familial ties with his children and grand-children; or I will not be able to wait it out at which point I would probably not be honest with him about why I was chosing to end the relationship.

 

I would not ever want to put him into a position to have to choose between me and his child. If I were to leave and tell him that I was leaving because of his choice to make being a good father his priority, it would put him in a position to have to choose.

[reboot]

Reboot

 

That is the thing. I don't see it a logical. In many case in a divorce where visitation is ordered and exercised, the WS actually spends MORE quality time with the children, not less.

 

Hahahaha. Seriously? Are you a man?

 

I know many men who had almost no meaningful relationship with their children after they got divorced. And I know men who did manage to have a something of a meaningful relationship, but it was still not the same. They still spent a lot of time being sad and hurt. Particularly once there was another man in the children's lives, which usually happens. Ex-wives can be pretty vindictive. Children are often used for revenge.

 

To infer that "visitation" is any kind of substitute for living with your child is silly.

[MizFit]

Hahahaha. Seriously? Are you a man?

 

I know many men who had almost no meaningful relationship with their children after they got divorced. And I know men who did manage to have a something of a meaningful relationship, but it was still not the same. They still spent a lot of time being sad and hurt. Particularly once there was another man in the children's lives, which usually happens. Ex-wives can be pretty vindictive. Children are often used for revenge.

 

To infer that "visitation" is any kind of substitute for living with your child is silly.

 

I agree with the first part...I think it's highly unlikely a man will come out better timewise with his kids after a divorce than before.

 

I disagree with the second part...it would have been better to have had a father who wasn't angry at everyone and a mother who ran from apathetic to terrified (of being left alone)...I would much rather have had a father who could come visit or have us for a weekend and actually be happy to have us around. I would much rather have had a mother who didn't live her life constantly afraid of what was going to happen next.

 

I would have had less time with the man physically, but I bet I'd have had more time with him emotionally.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Or do you suspect that he is parenting my children more so than his own?

 

FA, Your MM parents your children? Do they know that he is married? May I ask around what age groups they are?

[Fallen Angel]

Hahahaha. Seriously? Are you a man?

 

I know many men who had almost no meaningful relationship with their children after they got divorced. And I know men who did manage to have a something of a meaningful relationship, but it was still not the same. They still spent a lot of time being sad and hurt. Particularly once there was another man in the children's lives, which usually happens. Ex-wives can be pretty vindictive. Children are often used for revenge.

 

To infer that "visitation" is any kind of substitute for living with your child is silly.

 

I also find that hard to accept, having had my children taken from me by my now exH for six months and only allowed "visits". I was a mess!!! It was the most abusive thing he ever did to me, in fact, I even went back into the physically abusive maritial home for a time because the separation from my children was defeating me in a way that the physical abuse never could.

 

I couldn't sleep, I couldn't eat, my hair fell out, and I ended up on prozac, for the first and only time in my life! (as soon as I was reunited with my children full time, I was taken off the prozac as I no longer needed it. I was able to sleep relatively peacefully again (no more night terrors) and I gained back a bit too much of the almost 70 pounds i had lost in the previous six months.

[PhoenixRise]

Hahahaha. Seriously? Are you a man?

 

I know many men who had almost no meaningful relationship with their children after they got divorced. And I know men who did manage to have a something of a meaningful relationship, but it was still not the same. They still spent a lot of time being sad and hurt. Particularly once there was another man in the children's lives, which usually happens. Ex-wives can be pretty vindictive. Children are often used for revenge.

 

To infer that "visitation" is any kind of substitute for living with your child is silly.

 

I never said that visitation is a substitute for living with your child. What I said is ordered and exercised visitation can result in a non custodial parent spending more time with the child. I know this because I have seen it happen on more than one occasion.

 

It could also happen that the non custodial parent makes NO effort to see or spend time with the child, preferring instead to go into the rest of their lives as unencumbered as possible.

 

AND it can also happen as you described with a non custodial parent's losing the relationship with the child and the BS using the child for revenge.

 

No matter what the circumstances of the divorce are, you can't expect anything to be the same.

[PhoenixRise]

I agree with the first part...I think it's highly unlikely a man will come out better timewise with his kids after a divorce than before.

 

I disagree with the second part...it would have been better to have had a father who wasn't angry at everyone and a mother who ran from apathetic to terrified (of being left alone)...I would much rather have had a father who could come visit or have us for a weekend and actually be happy to have us around. I would much rather have had a mother who didn't live her life constantly afraid of what was going to happen next.

 

I would have had less time with the man physically, but I bet I'd have had more time with him emotionally.

 

I think maybe I wasn't clear...I was referring more to men who already (pre-divorce) are not spending that much time with their children.

 

In such a situation, a divorce and court ordered visitation could result in more time spent with the children.

[MizFit]

I think maybe I wasn't clear...I was referring more to men who already (pre-divorce) are not spending that much time with their children.

 

In such a situation, a divorce and court ordered visitation could result in more time spent with the children.

 

 

Ahhh...sorry...I see what you're saying now. Many apologies!

[Fallen Angel]

Or do you suspect that he is parenting my children more so than his own?

 

FA, Your MM parents your children? Do they know that he is married? May I ask around what age groups they are?

 

I do not want this thread to go too far off topic so I will answer these questions breifly and then will engage in no further conversation as to if people think I should allow my sweetheart and my children to engage each other so deeply.

 

Yes, he "parents" them, in that he is an intregal part of my and their lives.

 

He is very much involved in their lives as in order to be in a relationship with me he has to be. He spends time with all of us frequently, and I can not put my children and our lives on hold in order to do so.

 

He helps with homework, discusses problems they are facing at school, plays with them, talks with them, calls to check up and just check in with them ("how was school today?" "are you being a good girl for mommy?" etc) when he is "away", cooks dinner for them, cuddles them, kisses boo-boos, discusses what they want to be when they grow up with them. Yes, he does those thinsg for my children. he is in a long term committed relationship with their mother. I am sure that people would expect no less if he was a single man who had been in a relationship with me for 3 years.

 

Yes, my children know he is married. At least the two older ones understand it. My youngest knows it, but I am not certain she really understands it. I discussed this in a previous thread that you are welcome to research if you would like to search my posts.

 

My children are in high school, in junior high, and in grade school.

 

My children love him, and he loves them, and he has done more for their emotional well-being than their father has ever done. He doesn't forget their birthdays. He doesn't make promises to them he doesn't keep. He shows up at their school events unexpectedly. he tells them he is proud of them when they have accomplished soemthing. he tells them he is dissappointed in them when they have done wrong. He enriches their lives and mine with his presence in them.

[SummerLady]

Okay, so I went to the Infidelity board to read a thread tonight that was referenced in a thread here on OW/OM. (I do not often visit there but I was curious about the thread *shrug*)

 

I must say I am somewhat shocked by what I read there.

 

It seems the OP was conflicted about the position he was in after having found himself in an affair.

 

Several times on the thread he said he no longer felt as though he loved his wife. Numerous times he stated that he did not think he was capapble of "rekindling" the marriage, and did not think he wanted to. Numerous times he admitted that his main motivation for even considering an attempt at reconciliation was for his "oldest son" (I assume he means all of his children but for some reason the oldest son seems to have particular pull for him).

 

Many posters told him that he "owed it" to his children to stay in the marriage.

 

I was flabbergasted!

 

Is it not LS rhetortic that MM NEVER stay for the children? Is it not considered by the majority of LS posters that any MM who says that they are staying because they believe it is in the best interests of the children is lying and simply "stringing along" his OW?

 

It has certainly been told to me numerous times that My Sweetheart is using his child as "an excuse". So now I am confused!!

 

I mean, here is this MM who appears to be posting totally honest emotions and gutwrenchingly real internal conflicts and he is saying he is staying for his chil/children. And here are dozens of LS posters cheering him on and telling him that he owes it to the children to stay. (There were a handful pointing out that staying for the children is often more harmful than helpfull.)

 

So I am curious, which is it?

 

Do they sometimes stay simply for the children and becxause that is what they percieve to be in the best interests of the children? or is it all a big fat ball of cow poopie as is so often stated here??

 

**I already know where I stand, and I am sure that most of you know where I stand as well, but I have to admit extreme curiosity since so many of the people who have told me that My Sweetheart is "making excuses" were the same ones that were in that thread urging the OP(MM) to stay in his marriage for the sake of his children. (and while I have not finished the whole thread *it was a LONG one* they seem to have convinced him to stay in "the best interests of the child/children".)[/quote

 

Staying for the kids in some people's opinions is the best choice. I know a psychologist that did and she now regrets it years later. As a parent there is much guilt tied in with divorce as the children must deal with the aftermath for the rest of their lives. There is a book called the Legacy of Divorce..It was heartbreaking to read.. I thought about it a long time 2 years before I pulled the trigger, it was not an easy decision to make but I feel I made the best decision for ME. If I stayed I would have become resentful and this would have made everyday life too difficult which in turn would have made my kids misreable. Its not an easy decision to make, it depends on the individual and their preference-personality. The other point of your question is a seperate issue. If he is to stay in the marriage for the kids and is having an affair that is not really staying in the marriage is it? He is pretty much cake eating. Cake eaters are lame in my opinion. Make a decision. Stay in the marriage and be married or get out and get on with it. He is a cake eater plain and simple. Why leave when you get to have your cake and eat it too..

[PhoenixRise]

I don't see how he can be doing all of this for your children, working, making quality time for you AND be an engaged, active parent to his own children. This all negates the idea that he stays for the benefit of his children.

 

AND yes, If he got divorced, moved out, and exercised court ordered visitation, he would probably be spending MORE time with his children, not less.

[xxoo]

Yes, he does those thinsg for my children. he is in a long term committed relationship with their mother. I am sure that people would expect no less if he was a single man who had been in a relationship with me for 3 years. .

 

Is your relationship with his children comparable?

[Fallen Angel]

Is your relationship with his children comparable?

 

If you read my WHOLE post, you would have read that I said I will not engage in any further conversation that is off thread or involves discussing anyones opinions of if my allowing the relationship with him and my children is "right".

 

But I do welcome your input as it relates to the topic of the thread.

[xxoo]

If you read my WHOLE post, you would have read that I said I will not engage in any further conversation that is off thread or involves discussing anyones opinions of if my allowing the relationship with him and my children is "right".

 

But I do welcome your input as it relates to the topic of the thread.

 

I'm not challenging or questioning his relatioship with your children (which, ftr, seems appropriate to me for the SO in your life).

 

His children....the children in "staying for the children"... are the topic of this thread. I wondered if you had a relationship with his children, as would be expected in a relationship of 3+ years.

 

Of course, you don't have to answer. I wouldn't expect anyone to answer every prying question asked on a message board.

[Fallen Angel]

I'm not challenging or questioning his relatioship with your children (which, ftr, seems appropriate to me for the SO in your life).

 

His children....the children in "staying for the children"... are the topic of this thread. I wondered if you had a relationship with his children, as would be expected in a relationship of 3+ years.

 

Of course, you don't have to answer. I wouldn't expect anyone to answer every prying question asked on a message board.

 

Obviously due to the nature of the relationship and the fact that he is still in his marriage where he and his wife are projecting the happy family image to their children and the world (except for those close friends of his who are privy to the knowledge of me), the answer is no. I do not have a reciprocal relationship with his children.

 

The point of staying to maintain the "status quo" for the child would be rather moot if he were to waltz me in and introduce me as his affair partner, would it not?

 

I do however often impart my advice (which he seeks) about how to handle certain situations dealing with his children. I purchase gifts for them for holidays, though they do not know that they are coming from me.

 

I wish that I could be more of a part of his children's lives, as he is with mine, and perhaps in time I will be. But for now, one of his grown children has knowledge of me (and perhaps all of the grown children by way of the children talking among themselves) but his minor child is being shielded from the reality of the situation as it exists in what is thought to be the child's best interest.

[pureinheart]

Hahahaha. Seriously? Are you a man?

 

I know many men who had almost no meaningful relationship with their children after they got divorced. And I know men who did manage to have a something of a meaningful relationship, but it was still not the same. They still spent a lot of time being sad and hurt. Particularly once there was another man in the children's lives, which usually happens. Ex-wives can be pretty vindictive. Children are often used for revenge.

 

To infer that "visitation" is any kind of substitute for living with your child is silly.

 

I worked with A LOT of men and the horror stories were horror stories...I saw those guys and friends of mine go through hell and back. One even got murdered (it was never proven, but we know it).

 

I had to quit hanging around some of my friends because of their attitude, one in particular was, "he knows that if he leaves, I'll take him for everything he's got", or, "he'll never see the kids again". Just mean and horrible comments that were imbedded into the thinking of these men systematically.

 

What blew my mind is one of the ones that made these comments to her H was hitting on my H...what a joke.

 

In some cases it's emotional blackmail, and the kids are used to accomplish this.

[xxoo]

I wish that I could be more of a part of his children's lives, as he is with mine, and perhaps in time I will be. But for now, one of his grown children has knowledge of me (and perhaps all of the grown children by way of the children talking among themselves) but his minor child is being shielded from the reality of the situation as it exists in what is thought to be the child's best interest.

 

I appreciate your candid response.

 

It really just struck me today, reading along, how odd it would be for me, personally, to be in a relationship with someone and not know their children.....or, alternatively, in a relationship with someone who does not know my children. I'm not judging with this comment, just saying that it is a profound reality. For me, more profound than imagining being an OW, an BS, or a WS.

 

On topic, thinking of it from the pov of the child, I wonder how it would be to learn that your parent had a "secret family" of sorts (including being a daddy figure to other children), and never shared that part of their life with you.

[Fallen Angel]

I appreciate your candid response.

 

It really just struck me today, reading along, how odd it would be for me, personally, to be in a relationship with someone and not know their children.....or, alternatively, in a relationship with someone who does not know my children. I'm not judging with this comment, just saying that it is a profound reality. For me, more profound than imagining being an OW, an BS, or a WS.

 

On topic, thinking of it from the pov of the child, I wonder how it would be to learn that your parent had a "secret family" of sorts (including being a daddy figure to other children), and never shared that part of their life with you.

 

I am sure if/when it happens there will be more than a little upset about it.

 

My sweetheart often laments not being able to "share" me with his child. (He says that he very much wishes I could know his child and his child know me. He says he is sure his child would love me. Perhaps that is simply wishful thinking, but it is how he feels.)