MizFit Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Your sounding a little defensive and persecuted here... I wouldn't assume that poster was responding to you - a lot of times, someone just reads the first few posts in a therad and then responds without going through the whole thread, and this looks to me like as much like that kind of direct response as anything directed at you. And I don't follow the presumption that this poster is using adulterer and cheater interchangeably. You could as easily presume that the poster is using "alduterer" to draw a distinction between the two: with "cheater" as someone who has made a promise (or has agreed to an obligation) that they are secretly betraying - by that definition, no, an OM/OW is not a "cheater." But on the other hand, if you take the definition of an adulterer to be someone involved in adultery, then yes, by that technical definition, an OM/OW would be an adulterer, and this would be a valid distinction to draw in some minds. In my mind, what particular label you put on it doesn't particularly matter, and is a kind of a waste of energy to get all worked up about. The question is: should you or shouldn't you, how do you see yourself, and does this meet the standards of the kind of person you want to be? The particular word to be used is a peripheral concern to that more important discussion... Actually Trimmer I wasn't feeling the least bit defensive and/or persecuted. I was simply responding to the post and I noted I wasn't going to repeat myself again because of exactly what you said-there was a good chance the poster had no idea what I had written previously and I just clarified there was a lot of information and many posts and I wasn't going to repeat it all again. I'm not worked up about the label...quite honestly I am what I am...you can call me what you like and it doesn't really matter all that much to me. I was alluding to just what you've said-there is a difference, but it wasn't clear in the post I responded to. Hope you've had a good holiday weekend! Link to post Share on other sites
alaskafire08 Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 I have to agree; you're not the cheater, but you are hurting some woman you don't know, and you will see the ripples in the pond. His extended family, her extended family, and Heaven help you both if there are children. Why put yourself in that mess? Don't you deserve better? btw, if, after 3 years of 'friendship', you didn't know that he was married, ya didn't have much of a friendship!! egads, woman!!! Link to post Share on other sites
MizFit Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 I have to agree; you're not the cheater, but you are hurting some woman you don't know, and you will see the ripples in the pond. His extended family, her extended family, and Heaven help you both if there are children. Why put yourself in that mess? Don't you deserve better? btw, if, after 3 years of 'friendship', you didn't know that he was married, ya didn't have much of a friendship!! egads, woman!!! Just curious who, or what post, this is a response to or question for? Link to post Share on other sites
RedDevil66 Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 What does cheating mean. Take the dictonary version of cheating transitive verb 1 : to deprive of something valuable by the use of deceit or fraud 2 : to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice 3 : to elude or thwart by or as if by outwitting I would say the OP is all of these. And this is the burning questions. Cheaters who cheat with married folks with deny this, but denial doesn't mean it's true. Anyone who commits acts of lying and deceit are cheaters. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mombot Posted June 1, 2010 Author Share Posted June 1, 2010 I do not feel like I am lying to anyone, I don't know the W she lives a thousand miles from here. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 It's simple, Mombot. You don't care about her. You've never met her, and you don't feel that you owe someone you've never met anything at all. It's understandable that you feel this way. But then go to the other side of the coin for a while. Dust off your empathy for a few minutes. Put yourself in her shoes. Imagine what she's likely going through, what she's likely going to feel as a result of your choice to sleep with her H. Imagine how devestated and destroyed she's going to feel. Picture what her self-worth is going to do as a result of this. Recognize that you weren't the one who made oaths to her...but you are assisting the person who did in violating and breaking those oaths. You're working right there with him as he's taking actions that will emotionally destroy her. Everytime the two of you are together and it feels so wonderful for you...she's going to pay an equal and opposite amount of emotional trauma and suffering, probably bad enough that she'll wish she was dead. No, you aren't 'cheating'. But you're still an active and willing participant in her betrayal and pending emotional devestation. Take a few minutes and just imagine what she's going to go through. Empathy...probably the one thing that defines us as human beings and seperates us from any other species on the planet. Link to post Share on other sites
OWoman Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 If I didn't make the marriage vows, I consider myself free to do what I want with whoever I want. ... Yep, so long as they're adult, fully informed and in agreement. Their issues are THEIR issues, not mine. Link to post Share on other sites
Trimmer Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 ... Yep, so long as they're adult, fully informed and in agreement. Their issues are THEIR issues, not mine. I completely agree with this. However, I wonder if we might differ on what "fully informed" means. As long as the BS is not "fully informed" as to the extramarital activities of the WS - which I believe are pertinent to the existence and continuation of the marriage - and the OP is a knowing participant in that, I think the issues go all 3 ways. I'm not assigning to the OP specific labels of "blame" or "responsibility" or whatever. I just think there's a big difference between "we are having a relationship, the spouse knows about it, and they are in agreement" (which I am interpreting to be consistent with your statement above) and "we are having a relationship which is being kept secret from the spouse..." For me, it hinges greatly on the spouses involved in the marriage - who made those vows to each other - being in agreement in a "fully informed" state. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 (edited) As I said...I don't care to respond to your twisting of words and barbs. I have just left a lengthy response to Owls...he is one of the posters here I respect the most. I don't always agree, but I do respect him immensely. Funny thing is, he seems to agree with my analogy of the situation - an analogy to which YOU appeared to take great offense. He even went further and suggested that the OW/OM is unimportant to the MM/MW based on the insistence by OW/OM that if it wasn't THEM it would be some OTHER OW/OM the MM/MW was cheating with. Edited June 1, 2010 by donnamaybe Link to post Share on other sites
Spark1111 Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 Funny thing is, he seems to agree with my analogy of the situation - an analogy to which YOU appeared to take great offense. He even went further and suggested that the OW/OM is unimportant to the MM/MW based on the insistence by OW/OM that if it wasn't THEM it would be some OTHER OW/OM the MM/MW was cheating with. ANd truly, this is the biggest non-sensical justification in the world.... If it wasn't me, it would be some other person they would cheat with. That says so little about the ownership of the relationship. I don't care if it is an affair or not.....Ugh! Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 ANd truly, this is the biggest non-sensical justification in the world.... If it wasn't me, it would be some other person they would cheat with. That says so little about the ownership of the relationship. I don't care if it is an affair or not.....Ugh! It happens....with people who are just looking for the appropriate set of genitalia in the right place at the right time. :rolleyes: If that's all you mean to this other person...why in the heck are you fighting to be with them in the first place???? Link to post Share on other sites
2long Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 Owl: If that's all you mean to this other person...why in the heck are you fighting to be with them in the first place???? Because that's all that's important 2 these people! Organic plumbing fixtures! -ol' 2long Link to post Share on other sites
Blissful Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 Is it the MM that's the cheater/ If you are single, would you be a cheater too? cheat: a deception for profit to yourselfcheating(a): violating accepted standards or rules I'd say knowingly having an affair with a MM counts as a deception for profit to yourself, and is also violating accepted standards or rules (societal, religious, etc.) Of course, people who are trying to justify their poor behavior/choices will likely not get it. Taken from website: [COLOR=#008000]wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn[/COLOR] Link to post Share on other sites
Blissful Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 The OW/OM is insignificant in an A...that is my opinion... I was a BS...the OW had nothing to do with his infidelity...the choices were his and so were the consequences. While I agree that the OW/OM is insignificant in an A, that does not absolve them of responsibility for their actions/choices, and the choices were not just your husband's. The person he was involved with made choices every step of the way, as well. Regarding consequences, if you read OW boards, I think it is evident that they suffer consequences related to their choices also. Link to post Share on other sites
Blissful Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 ...it's set there and has no will and no control as to what it's doing. A person who is looking to have an A is making a conscious effort to cheat on their S. They are not idly sitting there waiting to be taken away. Exactly why the OP has equal culpability for engaging in an affair. Link to post Share on other sites
Blissful Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 I don't have the feeling I'm cheating.. and in most cases, I don't even have the feeling my MMs are cheating. They are cheated .. because their Ws are withholding sex.. or simply have no libido.. period... same as a lot of LSers' husbands.. PLUS... I couldn't care less what other people think... I'm comfortable with what I'm doing.. I am not hurting anyone.. I have never put a gun to their head... never forced anyone.. so.............................. It's MY life.. when I read posts like the above, why the poster comes off sounding defensive if they're so "comfortable" with their role as side interest, and why that is acceptable to them. Sad. Link to post Share on other sites
Blissful Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 ...he ignored weeks and months of me preaching to go home and make things right. He made a choice and I wasn't a catalyst for it. Perhaps he continued pursuing you because he knew you weren't serious, because, obviously, you weren't. Had you been serious, stating it once and refusing to discuss it, or see him, would have driven the point home in a believable manner. Just as he wasn't "stolen", you weren't forced. Link to post Share on other sites
Dexter Morgan Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 damn, i need to become a cheater. that way I can get alot of weak minded women falling at my feet. Link to post Share on other sites
jnj express Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Hey MB---I have not read all the other replies---too much to go thru IMHO---your sex partner is the cheater, and he is more than likely lying to you also. What you are is a HOMEWRECKER, and if he has kids----you are gonna screw their life up, but that be said----You should tell HIS wife what he is doing, so his wife can make an informed decision about how to spend the rest of HER life. Knowing she is living with a man who has cheated on her at least once, and maybe more. Link to post Share on other sites
MizFit Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Hey MB---I have not read all the other replies---too much to go thru IMHO---your sex partner is the cheater, and he is more than likely lying to you also. What you are is a HOMEWRECKER, and if he has kids----you are gonna screw their life up, but that be said----You should tell HIS wife what he is doing, so his wife can make an informed decision about how to spend the rest of HER life. Knowing she is living with a man who has cheated on her at least once, and maybe more. He is the one who didn't forsake all others...he is the one taking the decision to give his time to someone else...he is being intimate and sharing things with another woman and she's the homewrecker...right. If there was another affair before that, and before that...were they homewreckers as well? Talk about blameshifting. Link to post Share on other sites
MizFit Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 There have been a few posts that are directly to me...not a thing has been asked that I haven't answered in my previous posts on this thread. I don't see the sense repeating myself over and over as old arguments are brought up again. No amount of them being brought up will change my thoughts and no amount of stating my situation will change the thoughts of posters who disagree... I'll keep watching for a bit so if there is anything original I'll respond. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 I do not feel like I am lying to anyone, I don't know the W she lives a thousand miles from here. She does exist. She's a living, breathing human being with feelings. Do your friends and family know you're having an affair? Do they know he has children as well? Maybe you feel like you're not the 'cheater' but you ARE helping this man cheat on his wife. Partner in crime so to speak.. You know exactly what you're doing and it seems like you don't care. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mombot Posted June 2, 2010 Author Share Posted June 2, 2010 He has grown children and grandchildren... I do not know them. Link to post Share on other sites
Dexter Morgan Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 He has grown children and grandchildren... I do not know them. well, that make it all okay then doesn't it? Link to post Share on other sites
silktricks Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 In my opinion, both people who engage in an illicit affair are cheaters. The married person is breaking their vows. The non-married person is enabling the breaking of those vows. To say they didn't make the vow and therefore they have no guilt is IMO also blameshifting. I'm sure this will offend some, but to me, it's like a child who says to his/her parent "the dog followed me home, can I keep him?" The parent will generally say, "no, he has a home and his owners will miss him if he stays here." The dog was wrong to follow the child home, but the child would also be wrong to keep the dog who was not hers. JMO Link to post Share on other sites
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