cdn Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 and it would kill me to think that my irony, which is only a result of my own defense mechanisms and vulnerabilities, would cause anyone to hesitate posting. I am compelled to say that while I don't always agree with your views, I always respect and admire the way you express them. You are able to disagree in a way that makes me want to think about what you've said, rather than react to the tone in which you said it. This, imo, is what it's all about. And please forgive me if I should have said this in a PM instead of here! Link to post Share on other sites
meanon Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Well put cdn!!!!!!!! Now guys I'm off out to dinner - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't let me come back to find a fresh outbreak of LS WAR - I've only just recovered from the last one Link to post Share on other sites
jester Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 it interests me that i find the insecurities actually threatening because of the emotive nature of them. how could one even have a cognizant argument about it if the partners can't agree what constitutes cheating? That was my point: These women honestly believed, and deeply experienced, that their husbands cheated when they masturbated to porn just a couple hours before scheduled marital lovemaking. Their posts embodied an emotional truth, a genuine feeling perception of infidelity, which some posters derided and discounted. It was invalidation on a grand scale. These women were browbeaten for daring to complain about their husbands and porn in that context. and it would kill me to think that my irony, which is only a result of my own defense mechanisms and vulnerabilities, would cause anyone to hesitate posting. I don't believe your masterful irony as ever deterred anyone from posting. Absolutist accusatory judging, not sweet irony, is what deters posters. Link to post Share on other sites
jenny Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 lol - you are very kind, but i don't mind being taken to task for it. looking back, i think my irony does indeed undercut the seriousness of the concerns in some cases, and that does disregard the fundamental emotional response that you have justly pointed out. i wouldn't do it to my friends, (well, not too often, anyway ) so i won't do it here again. Link to post Share on other sites
Kriz Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Goddamnit. I hate pornhaters. Taking away irony from us. What defense mechanisms do we have left? We're sitting ducks! Link to post Share on other sites
jester Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Goddamnit. I hate pornhaters. Taking away irony from us. What defense mechanisms do we have left? We're sitting ducks! lol!! You're right, kriz. The thing is I like , in the right setting, good porn and cutting irony. Life would be duller without them. Link to post Share on other sites
cdn Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 The thing is I like , in the right setting, good porn and cutting irony. Together, Jester? I'd prefer good sex and cutting irony, but not concurrently! Cutting irony is harder to find, don't you think? Link to post Share on other sites
InmanRoshi Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 What is the verdict on men who are opposed to porn, i.e., opposed to men viewing porn? Are they also insecure and controlling? What about a man who forbids his wife from watching romantic "date" movies staring hunky lead actors or reading cheap romance novels ... would he be viewed as controlling ?? I would say the problem stems from more of his insecurities than from the harm directly inherent in any movie where a millionaire tycoon who looks like Mel Gibson can magically read women's minds and know exactly what they want. Link to post Share on other sites
jester Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 There's something fiercely anti-ironic about both sex and porn. Irony is a mood killer. No one's ever in the mood for some ironic sex. Well, maybe in Academia... Link to post Share on other sites
lostforwords Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 OK... my mouse is broken... and it took me a whole F#$@%ing day to figure out how to use my computer without the damn thing..... Ive reread the thread My husband is cheating on me with porn..... as well as the other posts that have been made by the poster...... if you look... you'll see a very sensitive, validating, as well as sympathetic responses to such poster..... and as it continues.... I see words of.... I OK'ayed the porn.... meaning gave permission..... i see words being used such as I allowed him.... I gave him permission.... etc..... and as these words or phrases are being used I see control issues being brought into the responses.... probably due to the fact no spouse should be giving permission, allowing okaying... anything in a HEALTHY relationship. I dont deny the fact that the poster does feel like s*** cuz of her hubby checking out porn etc.... insecurities, most likely due to it being a constant issue as well as the dynamic of that posters' personality. I put myself in her hubby's shoes.... and tried explaining as best as i could.... and with that being said the response from that poster was not only taken out of context but rather explosive.... almost to the point of a tyranny nature.... the whole thread escalated as well as I believe, truths started appearing from that poster..... which now confirms the constant battle of whose wanting to wear the pants, abuse, etc..... to me..... porn is not a form of infidelity. When arguing the fact that it is, infidelity is used to further thier argument on how they are feeling (much like manipulation, not always but sometimes) what better way to try and get a point across but to compare it to something as powerful as the word "infidelity", hell look at some of the threads regarding infidelity in LS itself..... when used with porn its merely a frame of mind...(the spouse that feels betrayed ofcourse) not an actual act. The actual act of infidelity is sexual whether it be a physical or emotional affairs. To me looking at a 3d picture of a naked woman and wacking off is not IMO an act of infedelity but rather an act of selfishness on behalf of the posters hubby..... yes hes being selfish masterbating, and most likely will continue to do it cuz from what i see in the relationship so far as explained in LS , is its a game of tit for tat.... one spouse outdoing the other when it comes to acts of revenge.... (God Im now confusing myself i hope im not confusing anyone in here.) What was addressed time and time again was the need for counselling and it still should be addressed with that poster.... but to generalize that all men who masterbate to porn under infidelity is absolutely wrong... however, its how the men or hubby make thier SO feel when they do it and identifying whether it was intentional or not is actually the root of the problem. sorry if i confused anyone.... im merely trying to get my opinion across as best as i can. geri Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 geri - you did an excellent job of getting your point across and I'm with you one hundred percent on all counts. Link to post Share on other sites
Thinkalot Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Yes, I agree ..you hit on some good points, and looked beneath the surface arguments, which is what I hope April will do too. I can see all sides of the argument, but all this venting and worrying reflects a bigger problem than just porn! Link to post Share on other sites
meanon Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 LOL Thinkalot you are right there!! To me it's a question of dealing with issues in an appropriate way. In my view raising them results in a more constructive response to posters on all sides but too much discussion results in polarisation and attack which, as we have been discussing - is not an effective way to change behaviour. So it's a question of getting the balance right. I may be being optimistic but I think we are getting better finding the right balance. Link to post Share on other sites
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