"Better to marry a man who loves you more than you love him"

[donnamaybe]

I find it strange that people are questioning fox's choice to start a thread about this, and even berating him a bit over it, when clearly (as evidenced by posts) there really ARE women who feel this way.

 

I hadn't heard this idea before but if I had I just might have started a thread about it. It's an interesting - and VERY odd - concept.

[CLC2008]

I find it strange that people are questioning fox's choice to start a thread about this, and even berating him a bit over it, when clearly (as evidenced by posts) there really ARE women who feel this way.

 

I hadn't heard this idea before but if I had I just might have started a thread about it. It's an interesting - and VERY odd - concept.

 

Agreed. But I also understand what Taramere is saying.

 

Something prompted this thread, but only the OP knows the origin of it.

[Ilovehim]

Interesting thread.

 

I always thought "I want to find a man who loves me just as much as i love him. I know that when I'm in love with someone, my love is always genuine and sincere. I would always be there for that person & never leave them (unless of course they screw me over, but that's a different story.) I wouldn't just "fall out of love" or do anything to hurt my partner. So if a man were to love me the same way, I would be very happy and would know that the relationship would work. In a perfect world the relationship would be 50/50..or should i say 100/100 where both partners love each other equally and enormously.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think that's always the case, although I'm sure luckily there are couples who do have that kind of relationship. If I were to be in a relationship where one partner has to love the other more, I would agree with the statement that it would be more healthy if a man loved me more. However, not to a point where he is obsessed with me, never that. BUT if he loved me just slightly more, I would feel happy because I would know that by hvaing the upper hand, the relationship would never fail. Why? Because I would already love him to an extent that I wouldn't leave him or hurt him, thus, if he loved me more than that, then I would have the certainty and the security that we would BOTH be happy. Whereas, if it was the other way around, if he loved me less, I would feel like my love would be too much for him, he would think i'm needy, he would lose attraction and would be afraid he would leave me. I would never be happy in a relationship where a man cares less. I have been hurt in the past and I need that security and certainty that a man will do for me just as much (or more) than i would do for him. Never less!

 

 

 

BUT I do agree that both partners should love each other equally. I would be more than happy with someone who loved me just as much as i loved them.

Edited May 28, 2010 by Ilovehim

[FoxMulder]

I suppose that like jthorne, I'm curious about why this is such an issue for you to the point that you started this thread. If a woman started a thread asserting that it was better for the man to love more, then I could understand you responding to that with the view that equality of love is more conducive to a good relationship. However, that wasn't a statement anyone has made. It's a mindset you attributed to women, with a view to going on to criticise it.

 

You are expressing a fear of getting involved with a woman who doesn't love you as much as you love her. You started a thread to argue with these women, whoever they might be, who subscribe to the belief that the man should love more than the woman in a relationship. In doing so, you're demonstrating that you have a preoccupation with imbalance of power within relationships.

 

So I'd second JThorne's question: Where does that preoccupation with power imbalances spring from? There must, after all, be a reason for you starting this thread. Surely the thread is designed for something more than continual and redundant assertions that relationships should be a healthy exchange of love between two healthy and equal people?

 

I started this thread because I saw a thread about this on another forum, I then searched the subject and discovered several articles about this and several different threads about this on this forum and other forums. IMO women who think like this are selfish and I really despise the idea that the man should love more than the woman, so that's why I made this thread.

[Taramere]

I find it strange that people are questioning fox's choice to start a thread about this, and even berating him a bit over it, when clearly (as evidenced by posts) there really ARE women who feel this way.

 

I hadn't heard this idea before but if I had I just might have started a thread about it. It's an interesting - and VERY odd - concept.

 

Why not ask what prompted him to start the thread? This is, after all, supposed to be a site concerned with self discovery.

 

As to whether it's odd: There are lots of people who are looking to get more than they're prepared to give. It might be selfish, but I wouldn't class it as odd or unexpected.

[donnamaybe]

Why not ask what prompted him to start the thread? This is, after all, supposed to be a site concerned with self discovery.

It isn't the asking that is curious to me. Rather, it's the sense that people are berating him for it that I find strange.

 

As to whether it's odd: There are lots of people who are looking to get more than they're prepared to give. It might be selfish, but I wouldn't class it as odd or unexpected.

 

No, I suppose selfishness isn't odd, especially in this day and age. I, however, cannot personally conceive of a situation where I would seek such, especially where love is concerned. That's not love. That's a business transaction wherein one seeks to make some kind of profit.

[You Go Girl]

No you misunderstand me. What I was trying to say was that why would I want to be with a woman who doesn't feel that strongly about me? I can be very much intrested in a woman but if the woman is only a little intrested in me then whats the point of pursuing a relationship with her? What I am trying to say is that I want the love to be equal and mutual, I don't want the love to be loopsided one way or another... If the woman loved me alot more then I would NOT feel comfortable either. While most women would PREFER if the man loved her alot more. I also don't want anybody to have the advantage or the upper hand in the relationship, not me or her.

 

I don't get how you can translate this to me saying I want a woman who loves me more, that is not the case.

 

I underlined one of the errors in fox's thinking...there are several more, just read the entire thread, or re-read it.

This is why he brought up this thread in the first place. He thinks MOST WOMEN think this way.

You must find women very frightening, fox.

[donnamaybe]

I underlined one of the errors in fox's thinking...there are several more, just read the entire thread, or re-read it.

This is why he brought up this thread in the first place. He thinks MOST WOMEN think this way.

You must find women very frightening, fox.

 

Well, oddly enough there ARE women in this thread who admitted to that way of thinking, and many other women supporting the notion.

[Taramere]

No, I suppose selfishness isn't odd, especially in this day and age. I, however, cannot personally conceive of a situation where I would seek such, especially where love is concerned. That's not love. That's a business transaction wherein one seeks to make some kind of profit.

 

If a man and a woman are happy with that situation where he adores her, and she's more reserved in her feelings - or, indeed, vice versa, that's all that matters. I personally would prefer a more equal balance of affection, but for some people the unequal dynamic might be the one they're most comfortable with or derive more excitement from.

 

It might simply be that one enjoys pursuing, and that the other one's reserved nature is something they delight in because it permits them to continue in that pursuing role throughout the marriage. If both of them enjoy that game, then there's no reason for them not to play it.

 

Everyone participates in "I'm in a better place than you are" power play sometimes. Some people are more willing to own their participation than others. Or, perhaps, are more aware of it.

[donnamaybe]

If a man and a woman are happy with that situation where he adores her, and she's more reserved in her feelings - or, indeed, vice versa, that's all that matters.

 

Well, of course. But it's also fine and dandy if a gold digger finds a sugar daddy and they're both happy with the status quo. That doesn't mean people aren't allowed to start a thread and wondering how it is that people think the way they do.

 

However, from the viewpoint of a person yet to find their mate, it might be a bit disconcerting to feel that the woman you've approached just might be thinking in the back of her mind (as in a recent thread) "Hmmm... This guy is really interested. How can I keep him obsessed with me?"

 

Me, me, me, me, me, meeeeeeee!!!

 

And SOME people are really good at hiding that kind of thought pattern.

[torranceshipman]

I have seen alot of women saying this "Better to marry a man who loves you more than you love him" and similar things. But why do so many women think this way? Why is it better if the man loves the woman more? Isn't it best if both partners love each other equally much? To be honest, women who think this way seem rather selfish and not "fully" in love with their SO. I would never marry a woman if I knew she thought like that.

 

God, sounds very depressing to me, a bit like choosing to sign up to a jail sentence. Crazy! I waited a long time to meet the guy I am with now, and he is amazing and I am completely in love - same for him. Why oh why would I have settled earlier for someone less suited to me? What a crappy idea. But you are right-some people do this, but I don't understand why.

[Taramere]

Well, of course. But it's also fine and dandy if a gold digger finds a sugar daddy and they're both happy with the status quo. That doesn't mean people aren't allowed to start a thread and wondering how it is that people think the way they do.

 

However, from the viewpoint of a person yet to find their mate, it might be a bit disconcerting to feel that the woman you've approached just might be thinking in the back of her mind (as in a recent thread) "Hmmm... This guy is really interested. How can I keep him obsessed with me?"

 

Me, me, me, me, me, meeeeeeee!!!

 

And SOME people are really good at hiding that kind of thought pattern.

 

There are plenty of other behaviours you could say the same about. I mean, there are entire websites devoted to Pick-up artistry...which, if you read them, are concerned almost exclusively with the business of viewing romantic relationships as powerplay in which the man must focus on getting and retaining the upper hand; getting as much as he can, while giving the minimum.

 

When they're not advising eachother on how to get the upper hand, they're expressing hypocritical outrage at the prospect of women playing games/trying to get the upper hand.

 

I'm sure those guys - when they're trying to convince women of their sense of justice and commitment to equality - are good at hiding their preoccupation with powerplay.

[donnamaybe]

There are plenty of other behaviours you could say the same about. I mean, there are entire websites devoted to Pick-up artistry...which, if you read them, are concerned almost exclusively with the business of viewing romantic relationships as powerplay in which the man must focus on getting and retaining the upper hand; getting as much as he can, while giving the minimum.

 

When they're not advising eachother on how to get the upper hand, they're expressing hypocritical outrage at the prospect of women playing games/trying to get the upper hand.

 

I'm sure those guys - when they're trying to convince women of their sense of justice and commitment to equality - are good at hiding their preoccupation with powerplay.

And when those guys make threads in this forum, the women come out in flocks to disembowel them verbally, and rightfully so.

 

In THIS thread, however....

[Mme. Chaucer]

This is all about frame and power in the relationship - and a woman who loves her man less than he loves her is playing for the pants. It's a signal that he's in for years of marital "bliss" that will require him to check his balls at the door. Happens all the time in the US, given our penchant for breeding effeminate men and masculine women.

 

If you don't think being the man means being the leader and controlling the frame, good luck - you're in for a world of pain in your "equal partnership."

 

I've been thinking about this, and come to the conclusion that you could be right. If all the men who are so weak and insecure that they require the "control" in their relationship with a woman in order to maintain possession of the coveted pants, they are likely to end up with a woman who is even weaker and more insecure than they are. Breeding these two "types" might indeed produce even weaker offspring; thus the "effeminate men" samspade references. I'm not sure how these couplings create the "masculine women" but I'll continue to cogitate on that as I'm riding my pony Clover this afternoon.

[Woggle]

People of both genders with a me me me attitude should just stay single. Thinking of yourself at the expense of your partner can't be good for any relationship.

[Taramere]

And when those guys make threads in this forum, the women come out in flocks to disembowel them verbally, and rightfully so.

 

In THIS thread, however....

 

Not ever PUA thread merits a cyberlynching. Sometimes it's just a case of men having difficulty talking to women, and wanting help with the task of sparking up connections. Certain PUA techniques may be of genuine assistance to him in that respect. The PUA threads that cause the fights tend to be those filled with recommendations of treating women badly in order to retain their interest or to get back at the gender for past slights (real or perceived).

 

If a woman created a thread with the contention that women should aim to have the upper hand over men by treating them badly and humiliating them, then I think she'd certainly get challenged for it by other women as well as by men. This thread isn't about treating men poorly or scamming them, though, and it wasn't started by a woman. It was started by a man who believes that women are generally selfish in matters of the heart. That they're selfish beings who want to be loved more than they love.

 

Some women have disagreed - others have expressed the belief that there's always one in the relationship who loves slightly more than they are loved. That for selfish reasons (relating to being burned in situations where they were the one who loved more) they would prefer to be the one who is loved more. That on a less selfish basis they genuinely believe both parties tend to be happier in marriages where it's the man rather than the woman who loves that little bit more.

 

Ruby Slippers is one of the posters who presented that view. She went into a fair bit of detail to explain why she holds it - which is what Fox has since said he wanted from this thread (ie explanations from the people who hold that view). I don't recall her being discourteous at any point - even when personal criticism was aimed at her in retribution for providing exactly the sort of explanations that the OP has since said he was hoping for from this thread.

 

She wasn't advocating scamming men, or hurting and humiliating them for the sake of a cheap ego boost. She was expressing the belief that marriages where it's the man rather than the woman who loves that little bit more tend to work better for both parties.

 

I don't agree that that's always the case, but I think RS was polite and respectful in her posts. If a man were to state that in his experience both men and women are happier in relationships where the man did most of the pursuing, I wouldn't automatically regard that as a misogynistic perspective that merited a cyber-lynching. It's a perspective that no doubt rings true for many people who are happily in relationships that started out on that footing.

[donnamaybe]

This subject is NOT all about RS and her views on why some women feel this way, and you and I BOTH know that SOME women feel this way BECAUSE they want to be the one-upman.

 

I still think it's odd to even consider who loves who more in a relationship.

[Taramere]

This subject is NOT all about RS and her views on why some women feel this way, and you and I BOTH know that SOME women feel this way BECAUSE they want to be the one-upman.

 

Doubtless some do, but unless they're contributing to the discussion on this thread I don't see how that's relevant.

 

I still think it's odd to even consider who loves who more in a relationship.

 

Then astonishment at the oddness of humanity must have sent your eyebrows to the back of your head by now, given that you're a regular on this forum. Self help bookshelves are crammed with such items as "he's just not that into you" and "women who love too much"....and this forum is forever covering the topics books like that cover.

[Woggle]

This forum also covers the topic of men who are crazy about a woman while she has no attraction whatsoever so the whole thing about a man loving a woman more does not always work.

[donnamaybe]

Doubtless some do, but unless they're contributing to the discussion on this thread I don't see how that's relevant.

Perhaps fox and other guys are hoping folks on LS can help them figure these types out in an effort to ID and avoid them.

 

Then astonishment at the oddness of humanity must have sent your eyebrows to the back of your head by now, given that you're a regular on this forum.

 

Now THAT is HILARIOUS and painted a vivid image, I gotta tell ya. And, yes. I've been quite shocked here a few times.

[Taramere]

Perhaps fox and other guys are hoping folks on LS can help them figure these types out in an effort to ID and avoid them.

 

I think that would be fairly easy. It strikes me that if someone wants to be loved more than they are loved in a relationship, it's a regression of sorts. Wanting the partner to be a bit of a parent figure who will love them unconditionally and take care of them. Getting the opportunity to be the selfish child.

 

I think if someone's come out of a bad relationship where they've focused a lot on someone else's needs and ignored their own, then that's likely to happen. In fact, I hadn't even thought of this until now....but a friend of mine could be the poster-woman for this thread.

 

Now THAT is HILARIOUS and painted a vivid image, I gotta tell ya. And, yes. I've been quite shocked here a few times.

 

My eyebrows reached the back of my neck about a year ago, I think.

[MrNate]

A quote from 'sex and the city', of all movies, got people this riled up?

 

Marriage is a rare thing nowadays, and will only become rarer.

 

One reason is because of silly quotes like these.

 

When the balance of a relationship, and becomes uneven, there is an imbalance. Rather it's 49% to 51% or 30% to 70%. When you welcome imbalance into a relationship, especially marriage, this has an extremely high chance of creating problems.

 

Balance in all things, especially with the one you plan on spending the rest of your life with. I expect to receive the same exact amount of energy I put into a relationship, nothing more, nothing less (may this thread take the expressway to the archives.)

[jthorne]

OP- here's the last 3 threads you've posted other than this one:

Is sex a chore for women

Why don't women initiate anything

Can a woman love a man as much as a man loves a woman

 

These are ALL about power imbalances in relationships.

Just curious, since you've never been in a relationship yourself, why this imbalance is important to you?

[FitChick]

I'd marry a man who loved me more because security is more important to me than passion and romance, which fade eventually. I don't cheat. If someone is your best friend, that is a good foundation for a lasting marriage in my opinion. Anything else is a bonus.

[CLC2008]

OP- here's the last 3 threads you've posted other than this one:

Is sex a chore for women

Why don't women initiate anything

Can a woman love a man as much as a man loves a woman

 

These are ALL about power imbalances in relationships.

Just curious, since you've never been in a relationship yourself, why this imbalance is important to you?

 

I was curious about that too. Someone never being in LTR, I think it is a tad presumptious to have the mindset of what the OP has subscribed. That's not to say he is not capable of loving someone more, but what are the reasons that have prevented him from giving himself to someone within an intimate relationship? Age, career goals, education, those are all valid reasons but also include a level of self interest which is perfectly acceptable and wise. But to denote someone, in this example RubyS, for her view on the subject, is strange.