Trying to hold firm.... but failing miserably

[kuma]

“You must standup in the storm. You must face the wind, the cold, the darkness. When the storm blows hard you must stand firm, for it is not trying to knock you down, but it is really trying to teach you to be stronger…..”

I will breathe these words to myself everyday……until I come to you

All my love, and all my light,

 

OMG, he's so romantic. I've read it twice! It's no wonder you fell for him. But seriously, how can you date other men? IMO, you'll be wasting their time.

[2sunny]

OMG, he's so romantic. I've read it twice! It's no wonder you fell for him. But seriously, how can you date other men? IMO, you'll be wasting their time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by joseygirl

“You must standup in the storm. You must face the wind, the cold, the darkness. When the storm blows hard you must stand firm, for it is not trying to knock you down, but it is really trying to teach you to be stronger…..”

I will breathe these words to myself everyday……until I come to you

All my love, and all my light,

 

 

these are WORDS!!! UNTIL i come to you... ????? THAT could mean FOREVER!

 

NO! NO! NO! :sick::sick:

 

words mean absolutely NOTHING!!! action and no words would be preferred. what if he said absolutely nothing - but actually GOT divorced? THAT would be a huge difference. words are too easy - DOING something about intentions is EVERYTHING!

[lilagirl]

i will be clear with you - HE only allows you to know what HE wants you to believe.

 

big difference between that and the truth.

 

my xH had this other MW believing that our life was miserable and we never had sex. THAT was so far from the truth it isn't even worth thinking about. and that is what ultimately made me so angry - is how much he painted an entirely different picture for her than what out life was together.

 

but, he wanted HER to believe a lot of things - so HE could get her to go along with what HE wanted...

 

see what i'm saying? if only the truth was known to all involved - each person could make decisions based on the truth - instead of what someone else intends for us to understand.

 

2sunny - I know your xH did this, and that his A was a surprise to you because you thought he was happy. Not all MM are in this same situation. There are many who aren`t fullfilled in their home life, and were searching for more, when the A came along. Its not always boredom. MANY couples are in sexless marriages, many couples go through through their M living as zombies and not feeling each other. I am sorry you went through this, and I believe that sharing your story will make other OWs think about their AP and question them and what they are being told... but YOUR story isn`t the story of every MM

 

Telling the OP that her MM is lying to her, isn`t going to help her with NC. SHe knows and loves her MM, but wants more for herself than what he is willing/able to offer at this time. She is posting on LS, to gain some strength.

[fooled once]

Fooled once.... you make a lot of judgement statements about people you've never met. I could make the same about you. Why are you on this site if you are happily married for 12 years. Don't you have better things to do with your time than try to make other people feel bad for their decisions. Sounds like you've not exactly been the queen of good decision making in your life either. Maybe you should have a little compassion and mercy on people who are also trying to the best they can and living their life and offer constructive ideas to help instead of unloading your baggage on them. It isn't about you anymore.... or is it?

 

Guess I hit a sore spot, huh?

 

EVERYONE makes judgements -- you included regarding the MM you are sleeping with. Life is full of people making judgments.

 

I am on the site for many reasons -- mainly to share my experiences and help those that truly want help. To show many women that LIFE GOES ON after an affair ends.

 

Who said I was the queen of good decision making? Hell no. I have made my share of mistakes in life. But I have learned from them and grown. I don't sit and boo hoo over something that I KNOW is a mistake, I don't keep doing something I know is wrong and proclaim "doesn't everyone make mistakes?"

 

Where did I unload my baggage? Can you point that out to me? Here is my original post to help you show me where I have baggage that I am unloading ...

 

Doesn't this describe what most OW, in an affair, think of the MM?

 

I also have an issue about you stating she should know what is going on. Have you heard of gaslighting? For all you know, she has questioned him and he has lied.

 

If he really wanted out, he would tell her he doesn't love her and wants a divorce.

 

But my guess is, like SOOO many other MM, they don't want to be the one to get the divorce. They want the wife to file - they want HER to be the one to proclaim the marriage over - even though it is the man who is cheating most of the time.

 

Coward. Liar. Cheater.

 

Great qualities in a man

 

And once again, MANY people with kids divorce. My son was 6. My husband's kids were 3 and 11. My girlfriend's daughter was 17. My other friend's kids were 8 and 10.

 

ALL of these kids are doing great today. Know why? Because they have good parents who place honesty, integrity and their kids needs ahead of their own. Kids don't need to grow up in a loveless, tension filled home where the parents don't act like they love each other or like each other.

 

I think this MM is feeding you so many lines, and like most OW, you aren't willing to see it for what it is.

 

I hope we are wrong, but I highly doubt it. And for what its worth, I was involved in an affair for 2 years so I DO understand what you are talking about. The MM I had an affair with could have written that same letter to me.

 

But hopefully, like me, you will truly move on. It was a few months later I met my how Husband He showed me what a true man of character is. he showed me that not all men are jerks. I had a physically abusive marriage and then got myself involved in a mentally/emotionally abusive affair. My H and I just celebrated 12 wonderful years of marriage

 

If a man loves a woman, he will move MOUNTAINS to be with her.

 

If you were trying to cut me down, it didn't work. And if you ask several members here, they will tell you that I have helped them.

 

So instead of getting defensive, maybe realize that I spoke the truth and it hurts. I don't like seeing ANY woman hurt over a man who is a liar, a cheater and dishonest. (unless his wife is fully aware of the physical and emotional affair, he is all of those words. He is lying to his wife, he is cheating on his wife and he is being dishonest with his wife). I always am confused when people get up in arms about the truth ... how are those words NOT descriptions of a married person having an affair? I never said they were horrible people or that they didn't have redeeming qualities.

 

So bury your head in the sand. Listen to his words, not his actions. Unless YOU change things, you will be in this same spot more than likely in 6 months. You are not giving him a reason to change - because you are accepting what he is doing - having a wife and a mistress. You can call him a 'split self' guy (which like so many others, I find to be a bunch of baloney and excuses), you could call him a coward for not being honest with his wife about his feelings and honest with her about the state of his marriage, you can continue to believe the lines he is throwing you (which are no different than most MM).

 

Or you can do what you say you are going to do - move on with your life. I also agree that dating while you are emotionally invested with someone else isn't really fair to the person you would date. I don't think you would want someone to date you when they are already in love with someone else.

 

I have been there, done that. It is my hope, like so many former OW on here, to help those that truly want out of an affair. To show them that there is life out there, that there is love out there. It is within each of us to go grab the one life we are given and make the most out of it. Some don't want that - some want to sit and wait months/years for the married guy they are involved with. Some are content to remain the OW. But many aren't. Many want more than sloppy seconds, many want to be the MAIN / ONLY woman in their guys life. If you are one of those - then NC is the best way for YOU to begin to heal so that you can be open to a single guy.

 

but it is your life to do with what you want. Good luck.

[bittersweet memories]

But I do know he hasn't had sex with her in a year. I have seen the proof of it while they were emailing back and forth when he was away with me on a "business trip". I don't believe if she had your healthy sex drive that he would ever leave her. She has none and doesn't seem to want him. Good for you for having the strength to know what you will not accept and move on.

 

Careful that the intrest for you is not only sex..

[lilagirl]

OMG, he's so romantic. I've read it twice! It's no wonder you fell for him. But seriously, how can you date other men? IMO, you'll be wasting their time.

 

Joseygirl - I am curious too... Are you dating other men, or searching for other men... to move on with your life, or to prove a point to your MM that you will not wait any longer and that men find you desireable - and potentially speed up his process?

 

I think if I went NC I would want to date too... just to get my mind off things... I am just curious what your motivations are.

 

Do you have contact with your step children?

 

I don`t think NC will be successful for you while you have a timeline attached... if he knows you will wait 1 month (I think that is what you said) then you are essentially still waiting in your mind... maybe not in your actions. If you want to truly go NC, you need to be able to move on completely. in mind, body and spirit. If your intent is a "pause" for a period of time, until he makes his decision that is a different story, and your NC would need to have a little bit of a different focus

[2sunny]

2sunny - I know your xH did this, and that his A was a surprise to you because you thought he was happy. Not all MM are in this same situation. There are many who aren`t fullfilled in their home life, and were searching for more, when the A came along. Its not always boredom. MANY couples are in sexless marriages, many couples go through through their M living as zombies and not feeling each other. I am sorry you went through this, and I believe that sharing your story will make other OWs think about their AP and question them and what they are being told... but YOUR story isn`t the story of every MM

 

Telling the OP that her MM is lying to her, isn`t going to help her with NC. SHe knows and loves her MM, but wants more for herself than what he is willing/able to offer at this time. She is posting on LS, to gain some strength.

 

 

her strength will only come from HER truth. truth is - he hasn't divorced. THAT is the only truth she has evidence of.

 

i would NEVER presume that any marriage or affair would look like my situation.

 

i ONLY post my experience and knowledge that i have gained from the situation - and from reading and posting here for the past 5 years.

 

there is most always the same pattern... so some things are definitely predictable.

 

i could never tell you what ANYONE else's home life may or may not be. i am the belief that all parties involved DESERVE to know what IS ACTUALLY going on - so each person has the ability to make an informed decision based on THAT INDIVIDUAL"S best interest. the lies are what always muddies the waters... the lies are designed so the secret stays alive and is fed to the extent that a lot of people are deceived and hurt... ON PURPOSE = every time the lie is there - it causes much confusion and so much pain.

 

she is here looking for support. i am willing to give her what i have learned here - and the experience that i have from MY OWN situation. i never differentiate between an OW/BS or even the MM. i encourage the truth be told - i encourage happiness for each individual based upon their truth. everyone deserves to be happy. if you're not happy = get out!

 

it's a very simple equation. people leave when they WANT to. why not state what the reality is - so the person can get the happiness they seek? remember... simple equation. if it's as bad as they say it is = they would have left... or would be showing evidence that they ARE leaving... not just talking about it and doing nothing except complaining, then cheating.

 

bottom line for me? i didn't want a man of THAT character. so i divorced him. i deserve a man who is willing to honor and cherish me... not cheat on me while he pretends we have a perfect life and complains behind my back to his OW. but that is just me...

 

i am also posting advice FOR HER OWN best interest... and how to be happy - whether or not MM is a part of her life. she can do this if SHE looks out for what happiness looks like for HER - and settles for nothing less... every day!

[kuma]

these are WORDS!!! UNTIL i come to you... ????? THAT could mean FOREVER!

 

You're absolutely right. :bunny:Actions speak louder than words:bunny:

[joseygirl]

these are WORDS!!! UNTIL i come to you... ????? THAT could mean FOREVER!

 

NO! NO! NO! :sick::sick:

 

words mean absolutely NOTHING!!! action and no words would be preferred. what if he said absolutely nothing - but actually GOT divorced? THAT would be a huge difference. words are too easy - DOING something about intentions is EVERYTHING!

 

 

I agree. Romantic words or not. THey are just words. I will find myself someone who can be romantic in person all the time

[joseygirl]

Joseygirl - I am curious too... Are you dating other men, or searching for other men... to move on with your life, or to prove a point to your MM that you will not wait any longer and that men find you desireable - and potentially speed up his process?

 

I think if I went NC I would want to date too... just to get my mind off things... I am just curious what your motivations are.

 

Do you have contact with your step children?

 

I don`t think NC will be successful for you while you have a timeline attached... if he knows you will wait 1 month (I think that is what you said) then you are essentially still waiting in your mind... maybe not in your actions. If you want to truly go NC, you need to be able to move on completely. in mind, body and spirit. If your intent is a "pause" for a period of time, until he makes his decision that is a different story, and your NC would need to have a little bit of a different focus

 

 

lilagirl - that is an excellent question. I have been grappling with it myself. If I am completely honest with myself I would have to say that I may be doing it for both reasons. I know that I am attractive and I haven't been single since I seperated from my Husband because I was in the A with the MM. Hell I haven't been single for 11 years. So.... in seeing what is out there and be open to other possibilites I am realizing that there are other AVAILABLE and kind and caring suitors. Of course I don't think I will find MR. right overnight.... but I am opening myself up to looking and trying. Of course I am still somewhat raw because of the situation I have put myself in. I have sat at home at nights on weekends missing my MM and waiting to hear from in instead of living life and going out with girlfriends or potential suitors. I have been living a life when apart from him that is lonely and hurtful. I refuse to do that anymore. I am not going to see him again unless he is divorced. Fortunately for me I don't have to as he lives in another state right now and we don't work together. So I do want to move on with my life... it is my main goal. But if my doing that reveals to the MM that he has lost me and he realizes that it was due to his inaction and gets a divorce... well then I guess he really did want to be with me. Either way... I don't see much of a choice. As for my emotional state for another man.... right now I am taking it one day at a time.

[RainDown]

lilagirl - that is an excellent question. I have been grappling with it myself. If I am completely honest with myself I would have to say that I may be doing it for both reasons. I know that I am attractive and I haven't been single since I seperated from my Husband because I was in the A with the MM. Hell I haven't been single for 11 years. So.... in seeing what is out there and be open to other possibilites I am realizing that there are other AVAILABLE and kind and caring suitors. Of course I don't think I will find MR. right overnight.... but I am opening myself up to looking and trying. Of course I am still somewhat raw because of the situation I have put myself in. I have sat at home at nights on weekends missing my MM and waiting to hear from in instead of living life and going out with girlfriends or potential suitors. I have been living a life when apart from him that is lonely and hurtful. I refuse to do that anymore. I am not going to see him again unless he is divorced. Fortunately for me I don't have to as he lives in another state right now and we don't work together. So I do want to move on with my life... it is my main goal. But if my doing that reveals to the MM that he has lost me and he realizes that it was due to his inaction and gets a divorce... well then I guess he really did want to be with me. Either way... I don't see much of a choice. As for my emotional state for another man.... right now I am taking it one day at a time.

 

I think that is very, very wise, joseygirl. This situation is really a shame because you seem like an intelligent, thoughtful woman who knows where she's going and would make a nice partner for someone. It's a shame this man will miss out on it by choosing not to move on with you.

 

I hope you find a nice man who is available to be with you and start the family you want.

[joseygirl]

I think that is very, very wise, joseygirl. This situation is really a shame because you seem like an intelligent, thoughtful woman who knows where she's going and would make a nice partner for someone. It's a shame this man will miss out on it by choosing not to move on with you.

 

I hope you find a nice man who is available to be with you and start the family you want.

 

 

Thank you RainDown. I am doing the very best I can. Thank you for your kind words

[joseygirl]

Guess I hit a sore spot, huh?

 

EVERYONE makes judgements -- you included regarding the MM you are sleeping with. Life is full of people making judgments.

 

I am on the site for many reasons -- mainly to share my experiences and help those that truly want help. To show many women that LIFE GOES ON after an affair ends.

 

Who said I was the queen of good decision making? Hell no. I have made my share of mistakes in life. But I have learned from them and grown. I don't sit and boo hoo over something that I KNOW is a mistake, I don't keep doing something I know is wrong and proclaim "doesn't everyone make mistakes?"

 

Where did I unload my baggage? Can you point that out to me? Here is my original post to help you show me where I have baggage that I am unloading ...

 

 

 

If you were trying to cut me down, it didn't work. And if you ask several members here, they will tell you that I have helped them.

 

So instead of getting defensive, maybe realize that I spoke the truth and it hurts. I don't like seeing ANY woman hurt over a man who is a liar, a cheater and dishonest. (unless his wife is fully aware of the physical and emotional affair, he is all of those words. He is lying to his wife, he is cheating on his wife and he is being dishonest with his wife). I always am confused when people get up in arms about the truth ... how are those words NOT descriptions of a married person having an affair? I never said they were horrible people or that they didn't have redeeming qualities.

 

So bury your head in the sand. Listen to his words, not his actions. Unless YOU change things, you will be in this same spot more than likely in 6 months. You are not giving him a reason to change - because you are accepting what he is doing - having a wife and a mistress. You can call him a 'split self' guy (which like so many others, I find to be a bunch of baloney and excuses), you could call him a coward for not being honest with his wife about his feelings and honest with her about the state of his marriage, you can continue to believe the lines he is throwing you (which are no different than most MM).

 

Or you can do what you say you are going to do - move on with your life. I also agree that dating while you are emotionally invested with someone else isn't really fair to the person you would date. I don't think you would want someone to date you when they are already in love with someone else.

 

many want to be the MAIN / ONLY woman in their guys life. If you are one of those - then NC is the best way for YOU to begin to heal so that you can be open to a single guy.

 

but it is your life to do with what you want. Good luck.

 

 

fooled once.... maybe you haven't read all my posts. I don't think I am burying my head in the sand. I don't think that I am accepting what he is doing and not changing. The whole point of me being on here is that I have changed my situation already. I have stopped seeing him. I have cut off most (ok not all) contact. And I am not telling him that I will continue doing the same things. You for whatever reason choose to only focus on the the obvious... which is also obvious to me, that he is a MM and that he is being deceitful... to me and to his wife. And so that my be truth telling but many of the other things you have said are YOUR truth.... not THE truth. You don't know THE whole truth... and neither do I. So when you say things like Move on... I accept that. When you say things like "I think this MM is feeding you so many lines, and like most OW, you aren't willing to see it for what it is." Thats just plain bull. I wouldn't be on here looking for support if I couldn't see it for what it is.

 

 

As for where you unloaded you baggage... well describing how you were divorced and your husband and your kids ages and how they are all doing great... that's your stuff... and we don't know that they are doing great. You could just be saying that. You also said "I hope we are wrong, but I highly doubt it. And for what its worth, I was involved in an affair for 2 years so I DO understand what you are talking about. The MM I had an affair with could have written that same letter to me." HOPING YOU ARE WRONG BUT HIGHLY DOUBTING IT???? SO if you are on here to help people... how do you see that statement as helpful, encouraging, or in any way constructive. If you wanna just read what you want to read than fine but don't expect me to just agree with you.

[joseygirl]

Oh and also fooled once..... I never called him a "split-self guy" ... in fact the first time I even read anything about that was yesterday. Another example of you not really reading the thread before you commented. That was your argument with Jennie Jennie. I just said it was interesting to read those personality profiles but in the end he has to be in action to change his situation.

[joseygirl]

Careful that the intrest for you is not only sex..

 

 

it was both of our interest at first.

[Susmay]

.... He just wants me to have a relationship with his kids and family and not have it be marred with the ugliness of he cheated and left their mother for me. I don't want that either.

 

Isn't this exactly what you are hoping will happen?

[joseygirl]

Isn't this exactly what you are hoping will happen?

 

 

ya know Susmay... not sure how to answer that as I'm not sure what your asking. Am I hoping he will leave his wife? Yes. Am I hoping to have a relationship with his kids that is marred by our Affair? No. I would like to have a relationship with those kids in the future where they don't come into the situation with preconcieved ideas of me. I have two step daughters whom I am still close too. I understand what it takes to develop those relationships. .... and it is difficult. We went through a lot together and I had nothing to do with their parents split. And in my heart... I shouldn't be having anything to do with his split either.

 

If he is unhappy in his marriage he should leave...not just for me... but because he wants a different life. If he is not lying to me... and his relationship with his spouse is really platonic with no emotional or physical intimacy than what kind of relationship are they modeling for those kids anyway. Not sure if I answered your question but I am trying. Thanks!

[lilagirl]

Josie,

 

I just want to offer you some encouragement. I am so proud of you and your strength. You will pull through this, and you are in the right mindset. It hurts. I hope you use this time to grieve the loss of your own marriage as well as your MM.

 

I have no doubt you miss him. I hope you can go through this period with strength and dignity.

 

You are an inspiration to me. Good luck to you

[Susmay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by joseygirl

.... He just wants me to have a relationship with his kids and family and not have it be marred with the ugliness of he cheated and left their mother for me. I don't want that either.

 

Isn't this exactly what you are hoping will happen?

 

ya know Susmay... not sure how to answer that as I'm not sure what your asking. Am I hoping he will leave his wife? Yes. Am I hoping to have a relationship with his kids that is marred by our Affair? No. I would like to have a relationship with those kids in the future where they don't come into the situation with preconcieved ideas of me. I have two step daughters whom I am still close too. I understand what it takes to develop those relationships. .... and it is difficult. We went through a lot together and I had nothing to do with their parents split. And in my heart... I shouldn't be having anything to do with his split either.

 

If he is unhappy in his marriage he should leave...not just for me... but because he wants a different life. If he is not lying to me... and his relationship with his spouse is really platonic with no emotional or physical intimacy than what kind of relationship are they modeling for those kids anyway. Not sure if I answered your question but I am trying. Thanks!

 

The point I was making is that:

 

(a) you are hoping he will leave his wife to be with you

(b) he cheated on her with you

© that is ugly whichever way you look at it

(d) it will mar your relationship with his kids if they know of it

(e) if they don't know of it, then that is yet another relationship you are proposing to have, built on lies, dishonesty, deception and betrayal (of both them and their mother)

(f) you and he will be modeling a way of starting new relationships that is no better than the relationship you think their parents are currently modeling for them.

 

Thanks for answering.

[joseygirl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by joseygirl

.... He just wants me to have a relationship with his kids and family and not have it be marred with the ugliness of he cheated and left their mother for me. I don't want that either.

 

Isn't this exactly what you are hoping will happen?

 

 

 

The point I was making is that:

 

(a) you are hoping he will leave his wife to be with you

(b) he cheated on her with you

© that is ugly whichever way you look at it

(d) it will mar your relationship with his kids if they know of it

(e) if they don't know of it, then that is yet another relationship you are proposing to have, built on lies, dishonesty, deception and betrayal (of both them and their mother)

(f) you and he will be modeling a way of starting new relationships that is no better than the relationship you think their parents are currently modeling for them.

 

Thanks for answering.

 

susmay...

a)yes. If I am honest I do hope he leaves his wife.

b)yes he cheated on her with me

c) not sure what your story is but yes it is ugly.. but I am not better. And if he leaves at least he is being true to the fact that he was unhappy and made a decision to leave.

d) at some point when they are old enough to understand they will be able to hear the truth and digest it. Do you propose that an 11 and just turned 13 year old are mature enough to digest that?

e) childrens relationships are built upon a need to be cared for and loved. They need to know that their parents will love them and support them and be there for them. Mine would be built on the same

f) not sure which is better. but at this point it is a mute point because our relationship is over.