Trying to hold firm.... but failing miserably

[joseygirl]

Josey,

 

I read the letter and didn't come away with anything "sweet" or "honest" or "compassionate" towards you. When my H was cheating with his co-worker, we had a conversation too. And, we both cried too. And no where in it did he say "I want a divorce", or did he give any implication that he was making any moves to leave.

 

What he did say was that our R as it stood was no working for him, and I agreed and that we needed to fix it. The tears were from not knowing where to start, and sadness over what we allowed to set in what was once a great R/M.

 

I'm not saying that your MM and his W had the same or even a similar conversation. I'm just warning against assuming that it was the conversation that he implied he had. My H implied the same things to his co-worker. And when D-day hit, he was not prepared to do what she thought because she was freaking out over her live-in BF and what he was going to do if my H showed up at her house.

 

My point - things are not always what they seem.

 

 

Very valid words.... and as someone who has been married for the last 10 years in a relationship that deteriorated I also know that no marriage ends overnight... and that if you hadn't cared for, loved, or had good times the relationship would have been over a long time ago. I agree... I cannot know what he says to her exactly when they are face to face... but I have heard phone conversations, seen text messages between them, and emails while he was travelling and I have seen some of this in writing. I choose to believe that he is being honest but if it boils down to he cannot pull the trigger... than I will have my answer.

[jwi71]

jwi, I believe what you are saying is that you managed to make a decision to divorce in mere weeks, being that you divorced your WS after finding out about her affair?

 

This is again comparing apples and oranges.

 

I am trying to say if you have decided on what you want its easy...you simply do it.

 

The OP's MM has said he will be with her...someday. This can only mean he HAS decided. So what's he waiting for? Arrangements? It doesn't take that long...I had the house, and cars, and businesses, and overseas home, and kids...I managed to do it.

 

That's my point. You TRULY want it, it CAN be done.

 

MY question is...why isn't it BEING done?

 

All the split-self excuse does is PROLONG this agony. It solves nothing. It accomplishes nothing. It EXCUSES everything. Its a justification by the WS to NOT CHOOSE - for both the WS and the OM/OW...everyone just sitting around waiting. NO ACTION. Just words.

 

This whole split-self theory can be solved very easily.

Just admit I'm right.

[Owl]

We'll have to agree to disagree, Jennie.

 

My thoughts are that disclosure forces the WS to make a choice. This is exactly where they can resolve that break between "doing the right thing" and "what they want".

 

And "doing the right thing" may well end up being "what they want"...again, one path to resolving that conflict.

 

What gets me is this...we ALL make these choices every single day. Balancing "the right thing" vs what our emotions tell us. Unless you're telling me that the WS's who are "split self" are dysfunctional and unable to resolve that conflict like a "normal" person would, I still don't get it. If that's the case, that would suggest that the "split-self" situation would be a relative rarity, requiring therapy to resolve...not something that could be solved by prolonging the internal conflict by any means.

[joseygirl]

nope. IF he intended to be with you he would have.

 

 

 

past tense. this hasn't happened - so his actions (or lack of) show you clearly - that he intends to stay with his W.

 

wake up! he's not leaving her. why would he? he's got everything he needs and wants! YOU make it easy for him to stay married AND to be cheating.

 

he's got everything he needs... is this enough for YOU? IF it's NOT - YOU need to get out!!! now!!!!!

 

 

I think if he had everything he needed and wanted... he would not be having an affair.... it's kind of an oxymoron. But to your point... is this enough for ME? no. that's why I am trying to begin dating and opening my heart to other possibilities...

[Owl]

I think if he had everything he needed and wanted... he would not be having an affair.... it's kind of an oxymoron. But to your point... is this enough for ME? no. that's why I am trying to begin dating and opening my heart to other possibilities...

 

True, but you also need to recognize a distinct possibility...what he's "lacking" may not be within the marriage...but something within HIMSELF.

 

I've seen this many times, and it appears to be a common thing a lot of times.

 

What's "lacking in the marriage" is often a lack within the WS themselves. If they're a self-centered person (for example)...that self-centeredness extends to their relationship in the marriage (and to other relationships, eventually)...and ultimately leads to the destruction of the relationship.

[jennie-jennie]

We'll have to agree to disagree, Jennie.

 

My thoughts are that disclosure forces the WS to make a choice. This is exactly where they can resolve that break between "doing the right thing" and "what they want".

 

And "doing the right thing" may well end up being "what they want"...again, one path to resolving that conflict.

 

What gets me is this...we ALL make these choices every single day. Balancing "the right thing" vs what our emotions tell us. Unless you're telling me that the WS's who are "split self" are dysfunctional and unable to resolve that conflict like a "normal" person would, I still don't get it. If that's the case, that would suggest that the "split-self" situation would be a relative rarity, requiring therapy to resolve...not something that could be solved by prolonging the internal conflict by any means.

 

What I bolded above is pretty much what I am saying.

[2sunny]

I think if he had everything he needed and wanted... he would not be having an affair.... it's kind of an oxymoron. But to your point... is this enough for ME? no. that's why I am trying to begin dating and opening my heart to other possibilities...

 

you're not seeing the part of the equation to which you participate. YOU fill that void. so stop participating!

 

you won't be capable of maintaining a new relationship while being distracted by the OM. cut him off. tell him you're done - then start a new beginning - for YOURSELF! because YOU deserve it.

 

either that or call his W and allow her to understand that YOU are participating in their marriage - and that he hasn't told her what she needs to know - which is that he tells you he's divorcing her to be with you. since he won't tell her - you may as well. see if that gets a reaction out of him.

 

 

 

best option - hurt no one any further than you have - especially yourself. cut him off and find an available man to enjoy time with. THEN you can start living again.

[NoIDidn't]

I think if he had everything he needed and wanted... he would not be having an affair.... it's kind of an oxymoron. But to your point... is this enough for ME? no. that's why I am trying to begin dating and opening my heart to other possibilities...

 

I think its fair to say "if he had everything he needed and wanted....he would not be having an affair..". But I think it assumes too much. I think he obviously has MOST of what he wants in his M, or he would have left already - regardless of the A.

 

The assumption that "if he had everything he needed....he wouldn't not having an affair" makes, is that the AP has everything and that's the why of the A. And that's just not true. All too often, the OPs in these affairs state "I could have been anyone". And if that's true, then the affair has nothing to do with the OP, and likely nothing to do with the M if just anyone could fit the bill.

 

I said all that, to say this - everything is still not what it seems. Regardless of the text messages you've read and voicemails you've heard between them. There is a such thing as being selective. And it could be that he's very selective in what he allows you to read and hear to make the point he wants you to come to.

 

I admit to not knowing you, your MM, or his W. I just caution against making assumptions that later turn out to not be at all what you either told yourself or were led to believe. That is the main reason that so many OW/OM hurt - even when they "get" the MP - because everything/everyone is NOT what it/they may seem at the time.

 

Be careful.

[torranceshipman]

His letter was lovely, but of little consequence.

 

I do not believe in the split self. I think at best it is used to coddle a coward who can't make a decision, and to excuse his bad behavior. That being said, in your research, you will probably see that a majority of these so-called "split selfers" do not leave their marriages, and that they leave everyone involved in limbo ad nauseum. It's up to you whether that kind of cowardice is something you want in a lifetime partner.

 

I wish you the best of luck whatever you decide.

 

I 100% agree with all of this. His letter means nothing - and I also think that 'split self' is a load of bull. It is simply lack of backbone all dressed up in a fancy sounding theory, designed to give people an excuse to continue to entertain inaction, and cowardly behavior, because they themselves are fearful about walking away. Call a spade a spade; he doesn't want to leave, he is a cake eater, and too scared to face up to any real action. He is willing to go as far as emailing you, and saying that he had a chat to his W the other day. Clearly he is not a man of action! You need to move on as his email might as well have said 'I am really bummed; you are gorgeous and I want to keep seeing you as well as my W. Go on, let me'!

[2sunny]

his letter is very vague.

 

so vague that he doesn't target EXACTLY what and when he plans to take action.

 

just vague enough to string you along further with as little hope and promises as he can possibly elude to.

 

it's not enough.

 

but it is enough - maybe for his wife. IF she had this info - HIS honesty - finally - maybe SHE would have enough of his truth to make a decision for HERSELF, HER well being, and HER future... just like YOU deserve.

 

IF i were his wife - and he wasn't willing to be totally honest and up front - I would want to uncover the truth of what he's always being so evasive about - i would be grateful to receive my husbands typed words - in all his honesty - to understand what a true coward he actually is - by not ever telling me what he ACTUALLY intended to tell me.

 

she deserves that - as much as you deserve to get moving forward with your life - without the coward that he shows evidence for being.

 

he's a coward - how can that be even remotely appealing?

[Owl]

What I bolded above is pretty much what I am saying.

 

Fair enough, but that's not exactly the same when you remove the parts that you left out.

 

If that's the case, that would suggest that the "split-self" situation would be a relative rarity, requiring therapy to resolve...not something that could be solved by prolonging the internal conflict by any means.

 

If the problem IS wrapped around this...holding on forever hoping he can eventually solve this "split self" problem on his own is worse than useless. It ENCOURAGES that dysfunctional behavior.

 

The only "fix" for him that I could imagine would be to walk away, and insist that he seek therapy.

 

Anything less just sets the stage to encourage and prolong that "split self" problem...it doesn't give him any reason to want to fix the problem.

[bittersweet memories]

I think if he had everything he needed and wanted... he would not be having an affair.... it's kind of an oxymoron. But to your point... is this enough for ME? no. that's why I am trying to begin dating and opening my heart to other possibilities...

 

If he has everything that is needed with you..then he would leave. Not wait 2 years.

[NoIDidn't]

Since the letter was so vague and doesn't obligate the MM to anything, I have to say the intent seems to be to string the OP along.

 

Maybe he is working up the nerve to seek a divorce, but shouldn't he have just said that?

 

Seems he's trying to have his cake and eat it to by not telling his W the truth while telling the OP about starting a "process" and how he and his W "cried". Sounds like he's stringing both along until he can find the nerve to do something, and that's not fair. First, to his W. Last and least importantly IMO (no dig intended) to any third parties hoping for him to end his M with said W.

[2sunny]

if your MM were REALLY an honest man - he would have sent THAT letter to HIS wife.

[jthorne]

if your MM were REALLY an honest man - he would have sent THAT letter to HIS wife.

Maybe the OP should help him out and forward it to her... see if that "split" can be resolved...

[2sunny]

Maybe the OP should help him out and forward it to her... see if that "split" can be resolved...

 

i don't see why not - as a former BS, i would have appreciated some form of truth and good reasoning behind my uneasiness... when i couldn't put my finger on what seemed "off."

 

i would have welcomed some form of his truth - instead of having the need to go searching... HE would have never been honest - and HE would have never left me... that was apparent after i discovered his truth. he wanted to stay married - he just wanted also to have a girlfriend that would never tell me.

 

HE wanted it all.

 

SHE (his W) deserves to know that he's telling you (the OW) that the W isn't the love of his life like he leads her to believe she is... his W deserves the right to make a decision for herself... the same way YOU have a right to make a decision for YOUR own happiness too - not based upon what he MAY or MAY NOT end up doing or not doing...

[jennie-jennie]

Fair enough, but that's not exactly the same when you remove the parts that you left out.

 

 

 

If the problem IS wrapped around this...holding on forever hoping he can eventually solve this "split self" problem on his own is worse than useless. It ENCOURAGES that dysfunctional behavior.

 

The only "fix" for him that I could imagine would be to walk away, and insist that he seek therapy.

 

Anything less just sets the stage to encourage and prolong that "split self" problem...it doesn't give him any reason to want to fix the problem.

 

Interestingly enough, therapist Emily Brown discourages from ending the extramarital relationship prematurely. The WS can put it on hold if he feels the need for space to figure out what he is about, but to end the affair when entering IC would mean losing touch with the emotional self before having found another way to be in touch with this part of himself.

 

Ms. Brown is very adamant about the split self NOT being a problem the WS can fix on his own, so individual therapy is a must according to her.

[2sunny]

Interestingly enough, therapist Emily Brown discourages from ending the extramarital relationship prematurely. The WS can put it on hold if he feels the need for space to figure out what he is about, but to end the affair when entering IC would mean losing touch with the emotional self before having found another way to be in touch with this part of himself.

 

Ms. Brown is very adamant about the split self NOT being a problem the WS can fix on his own, so individual therapy is a must according to her.

 

what a crock of $hit! the wandering spouse keeps things in order to find out more about his selfish needs? like this is any great revelation? oh brother...

 

WHY do YOU agree with giving the cheater ALL the power? to continue the comfort zone of the cheater only encourages them to be comfortable with hurting so many people - at the same time all the people involved are sacrificing their OWN happiness to be sure the cheater stays comfortable...

 

this is completely backwards.

[Owl]

Interestingly enough, therapist Emily Brown discourages from ending the extramarital relationship prematurely. The WS can put it on hold if he feels the need for space to figure out what he is about, but to end the affair when entering IC would mean losing touch with the emotional self before having found another way to be in touch with this part of himself.

 

Ms. Brown is very adamant about the split self NOT being a problem the WS can fix on his own, so individual therapy is a must according to her.

 

Of course I'd bet Ms. Brown would also be glad to help the BS through THEIR emotional trauma as a result of the extended affair...for a fee, of course.

 

Not to mention a market for helping OW/OM who suffer from the depression and anxiety caused on their end of this situation...for another suitable fee, of course.

 

Then of course there's the kids who grow up learning dysfunctional coping habits and relationship management...they'll want help working through that as well.

 

This is all wonderful if the only person in the situation is the therapist...they're getting rich like a big dawg. Unfortunately, prolonging the whole situation only benefits THEM, not everyone else involved.

 

Sorry Jennie...guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

[bittersweet memories]

Interestingly enough, therapist Emily Brown discourages from ending the extramarital relationship prematurely. The WS can put it on hold if he feels the need for space to figure out what he is about, but to end the affair when entering IC would mean losing touch with the emotional self before having found another way to be in touch with this part of himself.

 

Ms. Brown is very adamant about the split self NOT being a problem the WS can fix on his own, so individual therapy is a must according to her.

 

 

So is your MM going to therapy??

[NoIDidn't]

This thread is not about split-self affairs or what therapists say about them.

 

 

The OP is trying to have NC with a man that won't commit to anything with her or for her.

 

Can we stay on topic, <insert name of party guilty of thread jacking in your opinion>?

 

[Owl]

Thanks NID, you're totally right of course!

 

Josey, the advice you've seen about going NC really is your only way to work through this.

 

This guy simply isn't ready to commit. To you, to his wife, to anyone other than what's making him feel good at the moment. He's fighting to keep BOTH of you in his life...he wants to keep this situation exactly as it has been.

[jennie-jennie]

To Samantha - "I do think, however, the email the OP's lover sent made me feel skeptical. My problem with it was he says he's "starting" the process. Has he told his wife about the actual affair and his feelings for another person? The email made me feel like he is still just stringing things along and not making a decision one way or the other. He wants to hold onto some things in his marriage and hold onto his affair partner."

 

He is not going to tell her about the affair unless she asks. There are enough marital problems in the history of the 17 years that he can site as reasons for the divorce.

 

And someone earlier said that "24 months to leave" siting kids for the reason is ridiculous... his kids were 11 and 12. They are very impressionable years and this was before I was officially seperated and in the process of my divorce as well. So he was saying 1.5 years til his divorce would be behind him.... is that sooo crazy for a 17 year marriage and 2 kids?? I ask myself how I would feel if I was his wife and children. Is he supposed to just slam the door on them and walk out.... and by the way... I was married as well. I just happened to be able to exit faster and easier because there were no kids. So it has really been 6 months that we have been together and he has beenwith me as the "OW" presssuring him to address their issues. She is completely non confrontational and doesn't communicate about anything so each conversation to be had is up to him. He is constantly having to start the dialogue... and it has heightened to where he has told her he plans to leave and he is going to tell the children once school dismisses June 9th. The reason he says "start again" is because we have spent more time together this month than apart. He has rarely been home... and when he is he is mainly with the kids. They have not had a real discussion about it in a month... which was why I became fed up. They were supposed to talk on Tuesday because after a mothers days argument she left and took the kids knowing he had to leave for a week because she was angry that he said he wanted a divorce. She called to apologize and said they needed to talk.... and when he addressed and said what do you want to talk about on Tuesday she said "I really don't feel like discussing this now" and went to bed.

 

I have told him.... in fairness to me.... I am going to start dating. I will not sit around weekend nights and wait for him to call or text or IM me anymore. I want to keep living even when we are apart. When we are together it is amazing... but I want more. Isn't that life. I want him... and he knows it... but I am not foolish enough to believe I can't find someone else. Its just I love him... and I want him.

 

 

Jennie Jennie; Thanks for your input.... this has given me lots of food for thought... and lots of reading to do. Actually the split theory... does make some sense. I don't think you should allow it to dissuade your intuition and instincts from honing in on the truth but there is merit in reasons why anyone has an affair. And I see many similarities in his role and his wifes non confrontational role in the text

 

I am sorry to have contributed to thread jacking your thread with the split self. I have no idea whether the split self applies to your MM or not.

 

I agree with you that your MM needs to think this through thoroughly. To up and end a marriage with kids where you were not done before the entrance of the OW would be irresponsible. He needs to do it in the pace which is right for him, so as not to regret his actions later.

 

But as you say there is no reason for you to reserve yourself for him while he is figuring out what to do with his life. Good for you to keep on dating.

[jennie-jennie]

This thread is not about split-self affairs or what therapists say about them.

 

 

The OP is trying to have NC with a man that won't commit to anything with her or for her.

 

Can we stay on topic, <insert name of party guilty of thread jacking in your opinion>?

 

 

Agreed. And it is not about revealing the affair to the BS either.

[jthorne]

Interestingly enough, therapist Emily Brown discourages from ending the extramarital relationship prematurely. The WS can put it on hold if he feels the need for space to figure out what he is about, but to end the affair when entering IC would mean losing touch with the emotional self before having found another way to be in touch with this part of himself.

 

Ms. Brown is very adamant about the split self NOT being a problem the WS an fix on his own, so individual therapy is a must according to her.

Who died and made Emily Brown God?!?!

Just because a therapist says it doesn't make it so.

 

OP- if this split self stuff makes you feel better, great. Power to you.

Just know that if he really is one of these splitters, you got a LONG wait.