NoIDidn't Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 If not, why? If so, what? Link to post Share on other sites
White Flower Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 If not, why? If so, what? You've got me stumped NID. I'll have to think about it further. As for now, all I can think of is that he should offer her an honest reason for ending it. And an honest goodbye in person. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 honesty... that would resolve a ton of questions for the future... and create the ability to move forward without all the lies and deception that usually follows the ending of an A. Link to post Share on other sites
JustJoe Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 Make it three votes for honesty. Link to post Share on other sites
Author NoIDidn't Posted May 28, 2010 Author Share Posted May 28, 2010 Honesty is a good one, but what happens when she then questions that honesty and claims it because "his W made him say it"? Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 If not' date=' why?[/b'] If so, what? Personally, I don't think anyone owes anyone anything...if "whatever" is given freely, then it is ok, but forced is another issue. This is just my personal experience. When exDM was M'ed, I didn't feel he owed me anything, and vice versa. Things changed for both of us during/after the D. To me that is what cause our dynamic to become unhealthy. There were other factors involved, although once I got to the place that he owed me nothing, then I could have a clear conscience and move on...for me feeling like he owed me something kept me tied to him. This is just what worked for me... Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 Honesty is a good one' date=' but what happens when she then questions that honesty and claims it because [b']"his W made him say it"[/b]? Nobody makes anyone say anything, although we can be coerced. This has been proven many times over. If the stakes are high enough, meaning the punishment is higher than what a person can handle then they will deny/confess the crime to smooth whatever is at stake over. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 HIS complete honesty is much different than that of a different path (my wife wants me to tell you this...). COMPLETELY different. HIS honesty! Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 Personally, I don't think anyone owes anyone anything... That is my opinion too. Just like in any relationship, no one owes anyone anything when it is over. Love is always given freely, not owed, even in a marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 I would agree with the comments about honesty, except honesty isn't exactly a hallmark trait of someone who engages in an affair to begin with, ya know? I would think that honesty would be owed all the way around, but it's also the last thing likely to be present in the situation. At least I would expect the WS to provide a clear, out in the open "goodbye" so that there's no confusion over the status when the affair ends. Link to post Share on other sites
jj33 Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 He owes her consideration. If they have to be in touch whether because they will see each other or because they must be in contact he owes her adult polite behavior. That would include the following: 1. Not purposefully flirting with other women in her presence 2. Not taunting her with the mention of other women (whether true or mentioned just to hurt her) 3. Not trying to manipulate her with whatever real or percieved authority he may have over her. 4. Not purposefully inserting his wife into conversation just to upset her. Yes he is a married man with a right to discuss his wife but for example in a business situation its not necessary. 5. Not contacting her repeatedly when she has asked him not to. Yes I speak from bitter experience but I think that is a minimum level of consideration that he can show towards her. Essentially when its over he should let her move on and not attempt to keep her hooked just to satisfy his own ego or his own unmet emotional needs. Its over, he should find new prey. Link to post Share on other sites
JustJoe Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 I agree with Hoot, but IF you are being honest, then whether or not she/he believes is her/his problem, right? Link to post Share on other sites
ladydesigner Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 I like the honesty part. I think when ANY relationship ends it is best to be honest with the other person as to why it is ending. I think it is cowardly to do otherwise. Unless the other person is abusive. If two people really did love and share together they deserve an honest ending. When my XOM ended things with me over email it was not black and white and that made it very confusing for me. I had to ask more questions until I finally got the REAL REASON, hurtful to hear, but heard it. I would have preferred to have ended in person, but now I believe he did it via email because he couldn't do it in person and I'm okay with that. Link to post Share on other sites
JustJoe Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 LD, I think that a return to honesty is beneficial to ALL parties. IMO. Link to post Share on other sites
jthorne Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 Nope. Doesn't owe her a thing. Just like the OW doesn't owe the MM anything. Does a single guy owe a single girl anything when they break up? Not really. Enough decency to not badmouth her behind her back maybe. And the decency to leave her alone to get on with her life maybe, but even that is up to the OW to take responsibility for her life and move on. If he hasn't been honest during the A, why would he be honest at the end?? Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 Nope. Doesn't owe her a thing. Just like the OW doesn't owe the MM anything. If he hasn't been honest during the A, why would he be honest at the end?? it is highly unlikely and not expected - at all. the title of this thread is: Does the MM "owe" the OW anything when the A is over? what he may owe her and what he will give her are worlds apart. in an ideal world = honesty... is it likely? nope... Link to post Share on other sites
jj33 Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 Is my list as unrealistic as honesty? Maybe an azzclown is an azzclown (an azzclown is as an azzclown does?) and like you cant expect honesty, you cant expect rational adult considerate behavior? Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 OK, so I think everyone can agree that we would all like to have honesty and consideration in any relationship. In the case of an affair, I agree with the people who say that nothing is owed. Those who get honesty should be grateful IMO. Look at is this way. An OW is having an affair with a MM. This tells the MM that the OW is OK with him lying to his wife. No honesty or consideration there, and they both continue the affair. Then it's over. Should the MM be expected to be more honest and have more consideration for the OW than he had for his wife? Now, if a MM ends it and tells an OW he wants to work on his marriage, does it really matter if he is being honest or not? Fact is, it's over. Closure comes from within and nothing the MM can say will change the fact that he wants to end it for whatever reason. Link to post Share on other sites
jthorne Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 [/b] it is highly unlikely and not expected - at all. the title of this thread is: Does the MM "owe" the OW anything when the A is over? what he may owe her and what he will give her are worlds apart. in an ideal world = honesty... is it likely? nope...She knew he was married. She knew he was a liar. To expect or think they are "owed" honesty at the end is preposterous, IMO. Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 She knew he was married. She knew he was a liar. To expect or think they are "owed" honesty at the end is preposterous, IMO. Right! Unless the OW insisted that the MM be honest with his wife, she has no credibility to be asking him to treat her (the OW) any different. Link to post Share on other sites
jj33 Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 I guess what surprises me is to me there is an implicit contract in an A. The AP doesnt tell the BS or whoever would matter to the MP and in return the AP deserves not to be messed around after (see my list above). The more an MP provokes an AP the more they risk pushing the AP to disclosure. I dont think they are owed honesty because that is really saying you are owed "the reasons" (its not you its me etc etc its rare anyone gets real truth when a relationship with anyone ends) Link to post Share on other sites
Spark1111 Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 I would hope there would be respect and consideration in the ending of any relationship. But honesty in ending an affair????? Does the OW/OM deserve MORE honesty, more closure when the affair ends than the BS ever received from either of them during, and often following the end of the affair? Does anyone even remotely believe this is a possibility? That a person who has deceived their spouse with the aid of their lover would suddenly stop on a dime and be true blue honest with the affair partner they are now leaving? And if honesty and closure in realtionships is of such importance to the AP, why do you always advise each other to never give it to the BS when she comes calling or emailing you for HER CLOSURE? To never respond because it is between the MM and the BS and YOU do not owe her/him anything? So, it logically stands to reason, that both the WS and the BS don't owe the OW/OM any closure either. I don't think it is even possible to assume that a dishonest person would suddenly have a character or personality transplant to allow true honesty in the ending or starting of a dubious relationship such as an affair. Link to post Share on other sites
jthorne Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 The operative word here is OWE. No one owes anyone else anything. What's owed is one thing. What's decent is another. Link to post Share on other sites
Spark1111 Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 I guess what surprises me is to me there is an implicit contract in an A. The AP doesnt tell the BS or whoever would matter to the MP and in return the AP deserves not to be messed around after (see my list above). The more an MP provokes an AP the more they risk pushing the AP to disclosure. I dont think they are owed honesty because that is really saying you are owed "the reasons" (its not you its me etc etc its rare anyone gets real truth when a relationship with anyone ends) If they break the implied affair contract, you can too! If they broke their marital contract to be with you, why would you think they would now be more honoring of the affair contract when it ends? Did you believe they had better character with you because of love? Well, at one point they deeply loved their spouse, one would assume, and look at the contract they broke to them? Character in the starting or ending or deceiving in any relationship, whether it be BS or OW/OM speaks to....character. Or, the lack thereof.... Link to post Share on other sites
Spark1111 Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 Make it three votes for honesty. Did you expect your ex-AP to find you MORE DESERVING of honesty because you shared feelings with each other, than she ever was to her husband, who, let's be real honest here, she might have had feeling for too at one time? See, this is where the delusions in the name of love or lust boggle my mind. THE GREATEST INDICATOR OF FUTURE BEHAVIOR IS PAST BEHAVIOR! Love be damned. Link to post Share on other sites
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