Does the MM "owe" the OW anything when the A is over?

[MizFit]

Personally, I don't even believe that explanation is due. The MM is already married, a factor that the OW is usually well aware of when entering, or staying in the EMA.

 

The reason I don't believe the explanation is due is because it leads to more explanations and more explanations and so on, until the same thing has been repeated again and again.

 

The explanation to me is that "he's married", or "it's over". I know we want more than that, but no one is really owed more than a clear, concise end, IMO. An explanation only creates more questions and problems.

 

He was a big enough boy to get himself into a mess that causes a whirlwind of hurt to everyone he touches...the least he could do is give an explanation.

[turnstone]

In my experience of OW, its likely to cost the MM a lot more than 'a few minutes of time'. Any contact at all from the MM seems to be a green flag for the OW to continue in her quest to wrest him from the BS, regardless of how negative that contact is. I don't blame the OW in some ways, after all why should she believe him when he tells them its over? He's lied about most other things to do with his relationships, why not that as well?

 

This and the fact that there seem (again in my experience) to be very few OW with the self-respect to accept that the affair is over when its over, is bound to mean a prolonged and tortuous ending to the affair. Something that'll mean a far larger cost to an MM than a 'few minutes of time'.

[Silly_Girl]

In my experience of OW, its likely to cost the MM a lot more than 'a few minutes of time'. Any contact at all from the MM seems to be a green flag for the OW to continue in her quest to wrest him from the BS, regardless of how negative that contact is. I don't blame the OW in some ways, after all why should she believe him when he tells them its over? He's lied about most other things to do with his relationships, why not that as well?

 

This and the fact that there seem (again in my experience) to be very few OW with the self-respect to accept that the affair is over when its over, is bound to mean a prolonged and tortuous ending to the affair. Something that'll mean a far larger cost to an MM than a 'few minutes of time'.

 

When he's made a verbal commitment to spend his life with a woman, he should then explain why that has changed. It's up to him to manage that process, but I think the process should exist.

[turnstone]

When he's made a verbal commitment to spend his life with a woman, he should then explain why that has changed. It's up to him to manage that process, but I think the process should exist.

 

And when he's made a verbal, legal, social, financial, physical and biblical commitment to spend his life with a woman, then he owes it to her to enter into no contact, whatsoever, with his exOW.

[Silly_Girl]

And when he's made a verbal, legal, social, financial, physical and biblical commitment to spend his life with a woman, then he owes it to her to enter into no contact, whatsoever, with his exOW.

 

Yes, he owes it to her to end it and stay away from the OW.

 

I've been cheated on by a long-term partner and it's my belief that leaving these things hanging is not best for any party. The MM should make it clear to ALL and then moving on is cleaner and more feasible. As the injured party I would be much happier knowing the OW has been told that there is no longer a place for her, that the marriage is being rebuilt and she must stay away and has no place in the MM's life. I think that wuold make it less likely either OW or MM would have a sense of unfinished business.

 

If he's concerned about showing commitment to his wife he can email/write to the OW and show his wife. If his wife is aware of the OW's existence.

[silverplanets]

Yes, he owes it to her to end it and stay away from the OW.

 

I've been cheated on by a long-term partner and it's my belief that leaving these things hanging is not best for any party. The MM should make it clear to ALL and then moving on is cleaner and more feasible. As the injured party I would be much happier knowing the OW has been told that there is no longer a place for her, that the marriage is being rebuilt and she must stay away and has no place in the MM's life. I think that wuold make it less likely either OW or MM would have a sense of unfinished business.

 

If he's concerned about showing commitment to his wife he can email/write to the OW and show his wife. If his wife is aware of the OW's existence.

 

It will never happen but I think IF the WS has promised a future to the OW/OM and has now decided to stay in the marriage then they owe everyone an explaination.

 

My vote would be that it occurs in a monitored room with all three present - and that yes, the WS SHOULD have to answer, in front of their partner, why they promised what they did .. and yes, it should be about specifics ... "you told me your wife did not have sex with you, is that true?"

 

Equally the BS should be able to ask the WS specifics as well ... "you told me she came on to you, is that true?"

 

It would be a NIGHTMARE meeting BUT both AP and BS would FINALLY see the WS for who they REALLY are.

 

Everyone would have closure in about 10 mins imho :)

 

Whether they had lied to you or the other party wouldn't matter .. what would matter would be you would how they react when caught out ... and THAT would show you all you need to know about them :)

[jennie-jennie]

Personally, I don't even believe that explanation is due. The MM is already married, a factor that the OW is usually well aware of when entering, or staying in the EMA.

The reason I don't believe the explanation is due is because it leads to more explanations and more explanations and so on, until the same thing has been repeated again and again.

 

The explanation to me is that "he's married", or "it's over". I know we want more than that, but no one is really owed more than a clear, concise end, IMO. An explanation only creates more questions and problems.

 

I don't see this dynamic as being different from breaking up any relationship. The person who has to accept the other's decision to end the relationship, will keep on testing whether the decision stands, over and over again, until he/she realizes that the break is final. This applies whether it is an extramarital relationship or any relationship.

 

"Being married" obviously is not a good enough explanation, since that didn't stop the MP in the first place. "It's over" is good enough for me at least however.

[Silly_Girl]

It will never happen but I think IF the WS has promised a future to the OW/OM and has now decided to stay in the marriage then they owe everyone an explaination.

 

My vote would be that it occurs in a monitored room with all three present - and that yes, the WS SHOULD have to answer, in front of their partner, why they promised what they did .. and yes, it should be about specifics ... "you told me your wife did not have sex with you, is that true?"

 

Equally the BS should be able to ask the WS specifics as well ... "you told me she came on to you, is that true?"

 

It would be a NIGHTMARE meeting BUT both AP and BS would FINALLY see the WS for who they REALLY are.

 

Everyone would have closure in about 10 mins imho :)

 

Whether they had lied to you or the other party wouldn't matter .. what would matter would be you would how they react when caught out ... and THAT would show you all you need to know about them :)

 

Love this. Gets my vote.

[jennie-jennie]

In my experience of OW, its likely to cost the MM a lot more than 'a few minutes of time'. Any contact at all from the MM seems to be a green flag for the OW to continue in her quest to wrest him from the BS, regardless of how negative that contact is. I don't blame the OW in some ways, after all why should she believe him when he tells them its over? He's lied about most other things to do with his relationships, why not that as well?

 

This and the fact that there seem (again in my experience) to be very few OW with the self-respect to accept that the affair is over when its over, is bound to mean a prolonged and tortuous ending to the affair. Something that'll mean a far larger cost to an MM than a 'few minutes of time'.

 

I think this can be accounted to many MM having tried because of their guilt to break up the extramarital relationship without success throughout the years. The OW needs to see if he really means it this time, since he never has before. It has been his mind talking before, not his heart. So she wants to see if that is true this time as well.

 

It's not about "wresting" the MM from the BS. It is about checking the validity of his words.

[turnstone]

Yes, he owes it to her to end it and stay away from the OW.

 

I've been cheated on by a long-term partner and it's my belief that leaving these things hanging is not best for any party. The MM should make it clear to ALL and then moving on is cleaner and more feasible. As the injured party I would be much happier knowing the OW has been told that there is no longer a place for her, that the marriage is being rebuilt and she must stay away and has no place in the MM's life. I think that wuold make it less likely either OW or MM would have a sense of unfinished business.

 

If he's concerned about showing commitment to his wife he can email/write to the OW and show his wife. If his wife is aware of the OW's existence.

I agree, however that's not what some (most?) OW want in terms of an explanation. They seem to what the full blown 'why?' 'Why?' 'WHY?' The answers to which are never going to be satisfactory hence the age old 'the BS made him stay' blah. Infact the more answers the OW gets, the more reassured she'll be that the MM wants to stay in contact with her. Actions speak louder than words after all.

 

I don't see this dynamic as being different from breaking up any relationship. The person who has to accept the other's decision to end the relationship, will keep on testing whether the decision stands, over and over again, until he/she realizes that the break is final. This applies whether it is an extramarital relationship or any relationship.

Only if the person being broken up with has such low self-esteem that they have no means of coping with a breakup and thus will go to great lengths to deny its happening. Its been my experience that OW tend to have that kind of poor self-image.

 

"Being married" obviously is not a good enough explanation, since that didn't stop the MP in the first place. "It's over" is good enough for me at least however.

Why protest?

 

I think this can be accounted to many MM having tried because of their guilt to break up the extramarital relationship without success throughout the years. The OW needs to see if he really means it this time, since he never has before. It has been his mind talking before, not his heart. So she wants to see if that is true this time as well.

Yes, that would seem to be true in some cases.

 

It's not about "wresting" the MM from the BS. It is about checking the validity of his words.

It boils down to the same thing in my experience.

[jennie-jennie]

Only if the person being broken up with has such low self-esteem that they have no means of coping with a breakup and thus will go to great lengths to deny its happening. Its been my experience that OW tend to have that kind of poor self-image.

 

This is an enormous twisting of reality into badmouthing the OW. In all relationship books I have read about breakups, denial of what is happening is one of the stages you go through.

 

A breakup goes through the same stages as any grief process: denial - anger - bargaining - depression - acceptance.

Edited June 8, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[OWoman]

Only if the person being broken up with has such low self-esteem that they have no means of coping with a breakup and thus will go to great lengths to deny its happening. Its been my experience that OW tend to have that kind of poor self-image.

 

Perhaps if you got out more you'd meet a more representative selection of OWs, rather than the bottom-feeders you seem to have chosen to be exposed to.

 

IME, OWs are high-flyers who choose As because they suit their high-flying lifestyle (having a part-time lover on call for as an when it suits you, with no expectations on his part of anything more, since he has a W to take care of all that other stuff). Their self images do not rest on their Rs, but on those areas of their lives where they choose to invest - their work, their families, their friends, their hobbies. They do not sit around waiting by the phone - they are out having a wonderful time with friends, or the lover of their choice - and should they tire of one, they have a queue of others clamouring to be next, so there's no time for mourning.

 

Sure, I've seen other kinds of OWs too - but just because LS is over-represented by the unhappy kind and under-represented by the happy and having a ball kind, doesn't mean they're not out there. But then, most people would never know they're OW, just that they're high-flyers. Why would they have cause to discuss their sex lives with narrow minded prejudiced types who would just disapprove?

[silktricks]

Though I do agree with this in my heart....

He was a big enough boy to get himself into a mess that causes a whirlwind of hurt to everyone he touches...the least he could do is give an explanation.

 

This is what I/we experienced IRL.

 

In my experience of OW, its likely to cost the MM a lot more than 'a few minutes of time'. Any contact at all from the MM seems to be a green flag for the OW to continue in her quest to wrest him from the BS.

 

 

My husband did give an explanation, and was kind. I'd (personally) say it backfired, as for the next year we continued to be harassed with emails (to the point he had to close his account), phone calls (to the point we had to change our number) and other little tidbits - ending with rocks and eggs thrown at our vehicles.

Edited June 8, 2010 by silktricks

[jennie-jennie]

Though I do agree with this in my heart....

 

 

This is what I/we experienced IRL.

 

 

 

 

My husband did give an explanation, and was kind. I'd (personally) say it backfired, as for the next year we continued to be harassed with emails (to the point he had to close his account), phone calls (to the point we had to change our number) and other little tidbits - ending with rocks and eggs thrown at our vehicles.

 

As a BS to two serial cheaters I have experience of innumerable OW. Only one was of the kind you describe above, silk. She continued to more or less stalk my now exSO for 15 years or so after he broke up with her. She is the only OW that I hold resentment against. She was so manipulative. I still get upset just thinking about her.

 

Unfortunately there are those rotten eggs in the basket. All the other OW I came in touch with as a BS were not like that. They never bothered us.

Edited June 8, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[turnstone]

This is an enormous twisting of reality into badmouthing the OW.

No twisting necessary, just relaying my experience.

 

In all relationship books I have read about breakups, denial of what is happening is one of the stages you go through.

I haven't needed to read any books to know that. However, most emotionally healthy people's denial won't last as long or drive them to do the insane things that some OW do.

 

Perhaps if you got out more you'd meet a more representative selection of OWs, rather than the bottom-feeders you seem to have chosen to be exposed to.

I don't spend *all* my time on LS, you know.

[jthorne]

Well, I didn't even get that until I forced the issue, but if a girlfriend stands me up or someone doesn't make a meeting at work, a reason is always offered. I see it as basic manners, put simply. And to me, the same applies. It may indeed generate more questions; I'm sure some couples could break-up over days, weeks, months, but the MM doesn't necessarily have to enter a dialogue after an initial explanation.

 

I think if he was prepared to say and do what's required get IN to a relationship, and get the benefits from it, he should be man enough to say and do what's required to end it too.

Again, the operative word here is OWE. Would some explanation have been the decent thing, absolutely. Are you owed it from a married man whom you knew was married? I don't think so.

[Silly_Girl]

Again, the operative word here is OWE. Would some explanation have been the decent thing, absolutely. Are you owed it from a married man whom you knew was married? I don't think so.

 

Yes, I think so. 2 people, in a relationship... just because he's married doesn't mean he is automatically absolved from the responsibilities of that relationship. It is still, when all's said and done, a relationship.

[jthorne]

Yes, I think so. 2 people, in a relationship... just because he's married doesn't mean he is automatically absolved from the responsibilities of that relationship. It is still, when all's said and done, a relationship.

I'm going to differ with you there. I do not believe an affair is anything close to a real relationship. My fiancé was once in a terrible car accident. Had he been married, would I have been able to take care of him at the hospital and afterwards? Of course not. Probably wouldn't have even known about it until afterwards.

Glorify it all you want, but an affair is exactly what it is: an affair. Just because there are feelings there, it doesn't change that fact. Therefore, what is "owed" is different than in a real relationship.

Edited June 8, 2010 by jthorne

[Silly_Girl]

Of course it's a relationship, just not a marital one. We have working relationships, friendships, all sorts of different types of relationships. An affair is a relationship.

[jthorne]

Of course it's a relationship, just not a marital one. We have working relationships, friendships, all sorts of different types of relationships. An affair is a relationship.

Sure, I have a "relationship" with this keyboard I'm typing on. This keyboard gonna stick it out with me in sickness and in health, better or worse? Probably not. We'll have to agree to disagree here.

Again, I think the decent thing to do is give some explanation. Was it owed to you, I don't think so. Appearantly, there's lots of MM don't think so either.

[Owl]

Here's my thoughts.

 

The MM/MW may well think that they "owe" the OW/OM a final meeting to provide closure.

 

But...the vast majority of BS's do NOT share those feelings. In fact, they recognize that 'relationship' as being a pure toxin to their own relationship with their spouse.

 

So the first thing that nearly every BS INSISTS upon is immediate NC.

 

The MM is faced with a choice at that point. Violate that demand for NC (and further hurt and betray his spouse) and provide 'closure' that is 'owed' the OW...or honor the requirement for NC and hurt the OW.

 

It's pretty much that simple. Not easy...simple.

 

And so the ones that don't give the OW what is 'owed' are simply making the choice to work on their marriage...they're picking their course of action and going forward.

 

The ones that do give that "closure" rarely are looking for closure. From what I've seen, they're nearly always looking for a way to return to the status quo...affair AND marriage. They're setting the stage for this to all happen over again, potentially.

 

So the bottom line is that the MM owes two women...and what he owes to each conflicts with what he owes the other. He's forced with a choice over which one to hurt, and which relationship to work on.

[RedDevil66]

I don't spend *all* my time on LS, you know.

 

great reply/comeback

 

Psych 101 - those that have an incessant need to show how smart/better they are than others normal lack the most self worth.

Not all cheater/ow/lairs are bottom feeders just the ones who justify their sick actions.

[Silly_Girl]

I'm going to differ with you there. I do not believe an affair is anything close to a real relationship. My fiancé was once in a terrible car accident. Had he been married, would I have been able to take care of him at the hospital and afterwards? Of course not. Probably wouldn't have even known about it until afterwards.

Glorify it all you want, but an affair is exactly what it is: an affair. Just because there are feelings there, it doesn't change that fact. Therefore, what is "owed" is different than in a real relationship.

 

It's not that I don't see your point but if 'relationships' such as affairs aren't tangible and don't exist, why do they cause such heartbreak and devastation to families and in particular the BS's? I think it's because they do count as a relationship. The MM may claim otherwise, when he's in the 'deny, deny, deny' phase, but otherwise all parties acknowledge there is/was a relationship between the OW and WS, whether emotional/physical or both.

[NoIDidn't]

Perhaps if you got out more you'd meet a more representative selection of OWs, rather than the bottom-feeders you seem to have chosen to be exposed to.

 

I'm really curious about what this is supposed to mean as most Wives don't actually *choose* the OW they end up with, or end up hearing about.

[NoIDidn't]

Here's my thoughts.

 

The MM/MW may well think that they "owe" the OW/OM a final meeting to provide closure.

 

But...the vast majority of BS's do NOT share those feelings. In fact, they recognize that 'relationship' as being a pure toxin to their own relationship with their spouse.

 

So the first thing that nearly every BS INSISTS upon is immediate NC.

 

The MM is faced with a choice at that point. Violate that demand for NC (and further hurt and betray his spouse) and provide 'closure' that is 'owed' the OW...or honor the requirement for NC and hurt the OW.

 

It's pretty much that simple. Not easy...simple.

 

And so the ones that don't give the OW what is 'owed' are simply making the choice to work on their marriage...they're picking their course of action and going forward.

 

The ones that do give that "closure" rarely are looking for closure. From what I've seen, they're nearly always looking for a way to return to the status quo...affair AND marriage. They're setting the stage for this to all happen over again, potentially.

 

So the bottom line is that the MM owes two women...and what he owes to each conflicts with what he owes the other. He's forced with a choice over which one to hurt, and which relationship to work on.

 

I agree with everything but the bolded, for personal experience reasons.

 

My H was done with the EA, but he had to work with the OW. He had to interact with her on a regular basis because her administrative function was vital to his part of business with the company. He ended up having more personal conversations than I ever wanted him to, but it was her initiating them and using emotional blackmail to get him to speak to her.

 

There was an OW here last year that I immediately bumped heads with because she felt she was "owed" these conversations. She didn't care at all that she was interfering in whatever reconciliation he was attempting with his W. She kept making excuses for why he "owed" her and I called her on it.

 

I don't think the OW is owed an explanation in the least. If he's ended it, following a d-day or without one, she should just accept that. No explanation needed. Regardless of any perceived promises made. If he's breaking up with you, obviously those "promises" are no longer on the table. Attempting to talk about them, or even demand that they be honored, is obviously about getting what one wants and not about honoring his new feelings - wanting it over.