Does the MM "owe" the OW anything when the A is over?

[donnamaybe]

He can say whatever he feels like saying, to be fair. But I think something should be said. In my situation he wasn't 'the type to be lying to me all the time for something on the side', but irrespective, I think that MM are given some sort of Get Out of Jail Free card when it comes to the OW, because they're married. No need to clear up the mess they created, no 'human decency' required there, just move on....

 

When I demanded my ex stop being in touch with a certain woman or leave me, he chose me and I demanded he tell her what had happened and why they wouldn't be in touch. It's just something I personally believe, even if I'm the only one who feels that way.

 

There was no "human decency" being displayed by ANYONE during the A. I fail to understand why an AP would feel it should be expected at the end of it.

 

As for your demands toward your ex, that's all well and good. What if HIS wife demanded that he no longer speak to you or communicate with you in any way?

[donnamaybe]

He wanted to stay in touch, in his email, 'couldn't face being without me' etc. I refused. I had set the ultimatum in the first place because I didn't want things to continue, in that way.

 

I believe I was owed an explanation when ALL comms from him up to that point had been certain and definite and him pushing for future plans and where we were going, what we were doing, holidays etc. I want(ed) an explanation for what had happened/changed.

 

Ahh, so it was after YOU told him things were off. To me that would indicate a guy who was looking for a new OW and no longer wanted to waste his time with someone who wouldn't fall in line with his selfish wants.

[OWoman]

More confusion here. You claim to be such a humanitarian, yet you had no problem poaching other people's husbands. I guess your humanitarianism only went so far...

 

Please show me where I claim to be a humanitarian? I'm genuinely confused. I thought my post was demonstrating the exact opposite - that I avoid nebulous labels like that and go for behaviours that resonate with my personal values.

 

Totally off-topic, but as a proud capitalist, I have to laugh when those that oppose capitalism conveniently forget that it's most likely capitalist practices that afford them the lifestyle that they currently enjoy. Like Michael Moore's ridiculous movies espousing capitalism, but he makes money to upkeep that gorgeous bod (haha) via capitalism.

 

OTC - I'd happily do without the trappings of capitalism and live on a kibbutz, or subsistence farm, or even gather shellfish on the sea shore, as was historically practiced in my homeland. But it's not viable in a capitalist economy, so I don't have that choice.

[Dexter Morgan]

I think that taking the subject of 'human decency' in this context (OW/MM) is unhelpful.

 

oh, but of course you do:rolleyes:

 

 

Taking the human decency line is a different thread, in my view. The question was about circumstances whereby an affair has occurred and ended. By that time it's a little late to debate whether it's 'right' or 'fair' to enter in to such a relationship.

 

uh no, read the title of the thread again.

 

if you don't want to answer the question, just say so rather than dodge it.

 

So I'll answer the question for you since the answer is obvious and also obvious why you don't want to answer it.

 

OW/OM don't feel they owe decency to someone just as long as they are getting "theirs"

[Dexter Morgan]

I never said I didn't owe human decency.

 

you never said you did owe it either.

 

OLAY!!!!

[Dexter Morgan]

For what it's worth, since you're so interested in my opinion on this, I used to feel bloody terrible about his wife and told him many times he wasn't being fair to her (or I) and that if he was serious about me he should tell her, or end it with me. She was one of the main reasons I walked away.

 

sorry, I smell buls##t. if this were true, you wouldn't have sidestepped my question and would have declared this up front.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Dexter Morgan

[Dexter Morgan]

.............double post

[Silly_Girl]

sorry, I smell buls##t. if this were true, you wouldn't have sidestepped my question and would have declared this up front.

 

Your prerogative to decide I'm lying. It was more that I felt the thread subject was being muddied and my view on one specific point was being disregarded as meaningless because I was an OW. Therefore on principle I wanted to stay on topic.

[donnamaybe]

Your prerogative to decide I'm lying. It was more that I felt the thread subject was being muddied and my view on one specific point was being disregarded as meaningless because I was an OW. Therefore on principle I wanted to stay on topic.

 

Just because someone else's viewpoint differs from yours doesn't mean they are going OT.

 

As for the lying, it does appear you spun a yarn either in your initial thread on LS or in your above posts as to who left whom in the A. So which way did it really happen, because your two stories conflict very flagrantly.

[Silly_Girl]

Just because someone else's viewpoint differs from yours doesn't mean they are going OT.

 

As for the lying, it does appear you spun a yarn either in your initial thread on LS or in your above posts as to who left whom in the A. So which way did it really happen, because your two stories conflict very flagrantly.

 

Doesn't mean it's going off-topic, no, but that time I felt it was.

As for what happened, jeez... I answered this.

 

I issued an ultimatum as I hated the whole set-up, for various reasons, but loved him.

He chose me, sorted somewhere to move to, told wife.

He went quiet on me, eventually emailed to say he wasn't ready to leave her, felt bad - had bricked it basically, but couldn't contemplate life without me and loved me.

I said I wouldn't see him again all the while his wife believed there to be a relationship and a future between them i.e. I wouldn't have a secret relationship with him.

 

I could easily have carried on, either by not issuing an ultimatum, or by carrying on where we left off.

 

I hope that's clear now!

[donnamaybe]

Doesn't mean it's going off-topic, no, but that time I felt it was.

As for what happened, jeez... I answered this.

 

I issued an ultimatum as I hated the whole set-up, for various reasons, but loved him.

He chose me, sorted somewhere to move to, told wife.

He went quiet on me, eventually emailed to say he wasn't ready to leave her, felt bad - had bricked it basically, but couldn't contemplate life without me and loved me.

I said I wouldn't see him again all the while his wife believed there to be a relationship and a future between them i.e. I wouldn't have a secret relationship with him.

 

I could easily have carried on, either by not issuing an ultimatum, or by carrying on where we left off.

 

I hope that's clear now!

 

Very clear. But by his e-mailing you, he did provide your explanation.

[Silly_Girl]

Very clear. But by his e-mailing you, he did provide your explanation.

 

I had emailed him to ask. At work. Else I suspect I wouldn't have heard anything. And he'd been quiet for several days leading to that. I'd rather have been told upfront what the score was, when he made a decision. I found it disrespectful, but I know, it's irrelevant because it wasn't a real relationship betwene him and I, I deserve nothing because I shouldn't have been 'there' in the first place.

 

I get the picture.

[donnamaybe]

I had emailed him to ask. At work. Else I suspect I wouldn't have heard anything. And he'd been quiet for several days leading to that. I'd rather have been told upfront what the score was, when he made a decision. I found it disrespectful, but I know, it's irrelevant because it wasn't a real relationship betwene him and I, I deserve nothing because I shouldn't have been 'there' in the first place.

 

I get the picture.

 

Don't get me wrong in all this. He shouldn't have been there either. The point is, I hope people learn something from the fallout of an A. Regardless what the WS tells them, in most cases it's either someone deluding themselves into thinking they are unhappy in their M or outright lying to get laid on the side. If someone is really THAT unhappy, they will either leave their M or seek counseling to fix it. Once they are free, THEN they can go find another lover. It's much simpler that way.

[silktricks]

I had emailed him to ask. At work. Else I suspect I wouldn't have heard anything. And he'd been quiet for several days leading to that. I'd rather have been told upfront what the score was, when he made a decision. I found it disrespectful

 

It was disrespectful, and downright mean .

[bentnotbroken]

It was disrespectful, and downright mean .

 

 

:DOf course it was disrespectful. You can only expect respect from someone who has been shown to be respectful. A lying MM has shown that to by doing what? Lying, gaslighting and omission....right? You can only show the character traits that you have and cultivate. How and when was he going to become respectful.....by osmosis?:DHe certainly wasn't going to develope those traits while honing his skill of lying.

[fooled once]

I guess *I* live by the golden rule - do unto others as I would like done to me. I am far from perfect with this rule, because I am not perfect. But I do try to live my life the way I want to be treated.

 

Every person makes a judgment about another person -- I don't believe that anyone hasn't committed that 'crime'.

 

I also believe if a person was dating a single guy, and that single guy stopped calling them, they wouldn't feel as if they were "owed" an explanation. I guess it is common sense that, especially after a Dday, if the MM quits communicating, he has made his choice (or his choice was made for him). IF he wanted to get in touch with the OW, he would ... because you can't tie someone to you 24/7. So I don't believe the line of "he couldn't because his wife would have found out". It is very easy to make a fake email account.

 

I never felt like I was "owed" an explanation when the situation I was in with a MM ended...I kinda figured out what had happened. He didn't owe me another bullsh*t line and I didn't want to hear it. I think OW who want to hear the excuse are really looking for an opportunity to plug their cause again, to remind him what he said, to remind him of his promises, to tell him again how much they love him, to try to manipulate him through tears, etc.

 

These guys KNOW what they are doing - they KNOW the game they are playing, they KNOW the OW is waiting and wondering...yet, they choose to do nothing. They don't care if she is hurt; cause if he did, he wouldn't have put her through an affair in the first place.

 

I still don't believe that there are all these OW who are only interested in a part-time boy toy. Nope, not gonna believe it. And it isn't just from reading LS, it is from IRL experiences. The OW I know were in it for the relationship they thought they had or to replace the unhappy marriage they had -- not for gifts, sex or a fling.

[NoIDidn't]

When an affair ends does the MM owe the OW anything?

 

In trying to ask myself that, I flipped it around:

 

When an affair ends, does the OW owe MM anything?

 

Really, I think the best either can ask for or recieve is discretion.

 

I like this answer, too.

[Dexter Morgan]

I had emailed him to ask. At work. Else I suspect I wouldn't have heard anything. And he'd been quiet for several days leading to that. I'd rather have been told upfront what the score was

 

 

upfront the score was.......he is married.

[Ellin]

To answer the main question of this thread I would say it depends on what the relationship was like, and it applies to any relationship, not just a love triangle. If the MM lied in purpose to string the OW along and broke her heart, wasted her time etc. as a result, I believe she would rightly feel anger and feel as if he owes her something.

 

If I was in this situation, I might demand some kind of "compensation", depending on the circumstances.

[Silly_Girl]

upfront the score was.......he is married.

 

Simple as that? Any married person cannot have a meaningful or tangible relationship with another person....?

[Dexter Morgan]

Simple as that?

 

yup, simple as that. he was married, you knew this....what did you think? "I'll get him to leave his wife...he is a real prize to be cheating on his wife":confused:

 

 

 

Any married person cannot have a meaningful or tangible relationship with another person....?

 

I suppose they could, but then they should have the balls/tits to get a divorce.

 

But you are sitting here like you were all so innocent and didn't know the score upfront.....and the score was upfront all along....he is married. That should have told you, "move on to someone not committed/married"

 

you are claiming you didn't know the score......when you did. you are just in denial.

[Silly_Girl]

yup, simple as that. he was married, you knew this....what did you think? "I'll get him to leave his wife...he is a real prize to be cheating on his wife":confused:

 

 

 

 

 

I suppose they could, but then they should have the balls/tits to get a divorce.

 

But you are sitting here like you were all so innocent and didn't know the score upfront.....and the score was upfront all along....he is married. That should have told you, "move on to someone not committed/married"

 

you are claiming you didn't know the score......when you did. you are just in denial.

 

Some of us live in a world which is very black and white, others of us do not and things can present themselves in shades of grey. And all of us, without question, make mistakes at some point.

[NoIDidn't]

To answer the main question of this thread I would say it depends on what the relationship was like, and it applies to any relationship, not just a love triangle. If the MM lied in purpose to string the OW along and broke her heart, wasted her time etc. as a result, I believe she would rightly feel anger and feel as if he owes her something.

 

If I was in this situation, I might demand some kind of "compensation", depending on the circumstances.

 

Everyone feels that someone that lied to them purposefully, regardless of the nature of their R, owes them some explanation. But no one EVER gets an explanation from these types.

 

Why think that general rule is going to change just because its an A? I think it has something to do with the fact that the OW overestimates her worth and importance to the MM's bottom line/real life.

[jj33]

Its rare that anyone gets a real explanation with the end of any relationship. When one person isnt ready to end things, that person always has more questions.

 

I think the idea of something being owed comes from promises made. I appreciate that larger promises were broken vis a vis the BS (ie the marriage vows) but from the APs perspective promises were nonetheless broken in many cases and there is a natural need to ask why.

[NoIDidn't]

Its rare that anyone gets a real explanation with the end of any relationship. When one person isnt ready to end things, that person always has more questions.

 

I think the idea of something being owed comes from promises made. I appreciate that larger promises were broken vis a vis the BS (ie the marriage vows) but from the APs perspective promises were nonetheless broken in many cases and there is a natural need to ask why.

 

I can understand the natural need to ask why. What I can't understand is practically demanding an answer and not being able to accept silence.

 

The OW in my case felt she was owed "closure". My H recommended a therapist and told her he was not going to be able to speak to her about the end of the A or what happened afterwards anymore.

 

For one, who wants to hear from their exOW about the BF that she betrayed, and how he and his family are reacting to her actions. For two, whatever was going on in our home was distinctly none of her business.

 

Its just been my experience (as a OW AND as a W) that the questions always go too far and way beyond explanation to practically demands for a do-over with a more favorable result.