Why are black women left out of the interracial dating game too?

[claudia]

to all the poster on this thread about black women not being attractive enough is it that all black women or just the ones you see and if u find them unattractive what about the white women who are unattractive ? Now don't get me wrong i can care less if u like ,dislike black females ,white females or asian females, but to say that i dont date black females is because they are not attractive enough sounds like a whole race of women (with the exception of a choosen few) is unattractive. i dont think looks should be the only factor that infleunces in any race but whether the person is compatable yes or no . Besides what makes us so unattractive and distasteful as apose to another race. Someone please help me understand .

[Kat]

The word race doesn't exist anymore people. We are all one race, so going on about someones race is just wrong. You mean their ethinicity

 

Originally posted by Arabess

I would date a guy because I enjoy his company.....it's not a racial call....ever.

 

And if his ethinicity stopped you from getting to enjoy his company?

[amerikajin]

Claudia,

 

I can't speak for others, but I don't find ALL black women unattractive. I'm only saying that I have encountered comparatively few black women who fit what I would consider to be my needs in terms of education, attitudes about life, and general appearance.

 

As I've said before, I think this has its roots in history and the degree of separation that has been caused by the original design of American (and in particular Southern U.S.) society. In the place where I was raised, there is a great disparity between the black and white communities in terms of education, socio-economic status, and even in terms of physical appearance. This is due largely to the circumstances that existed in the 200 years before things finally started changing for the better. I disagree with Dyer and Block: history does have something to do with it, whether we realize it or not.

 

For what it's worth, I'm no more attracted to uneducated, unambitious and poorly kept women who are white, Asian or Latina. I understand it's not fair, but love isn't about fairness. Attraction is what it is.

 

Of course there are black women in the world who are exactly the opposite of what I've described above, even in America, even in the American south. In those cases, I sometimes find myself attracted to black women if our personalities match.

 

Though I disagree with some of what he's written, Block does raise a good point and one upon which I'd like to elaborate just a little: the politics of a black/white romance. It's probably hard for people outside the U.S. to understand this, but another complication involved in black-white relationships is merely the social implications it creates. I know that if I were to date a black woman in my home community, we would be the talk of the town. I'd also have to think about the implications of having children. Again, it shouldn't matter, but it does. I'm not saying you can't deal with it constructively, but perhaps that's just yet another disincentive to get involved in the first place.

 

Nevertheless, I try to keep an open mind. I'm sorry for having offended you, and I hope you have a better understanding of what I've been trying to articulate. This is difficult to do in 100 posts, let alone one.

[Jeff]

I still don't think history or class got anything to do with it.

 

In Western Europe, Canada and Australia we still observe the same patterns. Mainly, you will see lots of white women gravitate towards black men while white men gravitate towards Asian women. Often, it is the black women and Asian men who get left behind in the dust. In Europe, there is not that history factor because most blacks in Europe are 1st or 2nd generation migrants from Africa. And, I heard people say that the interracial gender disparity is even much higher in England and France than it is in the USA because people there are not afraid to express sexuality.

 

It's gonna be hard to get frank answers on this topic.

[dyermaker]

As far as Americans being afraid to express their sexuality, only a foreigner would make such an assumption I can't walk down the street without plenty of people expressing themselves sexually, we're not a repressed nation at all.

 

Originally posted by Jeff

Mainly, you will see lots of white women gravitate towards black men while white men gravitate towards Asian women.

 

I assert that this is not true, rather a minority.

 

I think when a white woman "gravitates" towards a black man, you take note. But when the 95% of other white women "gravitate" towards whomever they want, white males even, it's just another white couple, no big deal. Additionally, there are men who have a "thing" for Asian gals, but when a white man has a thing for white girl, it's not like you're taking notes.

 

But then there's that whole taboo, the white girl black guy thing (porn anyone? 54 posts and no one's brought up blacks on blondes dot com?) as if it's some societal shame. I've heard it said that every white girl secretly lusts over the black man, but gawd knows who told me that. I think without mistaking my statements, you know what I'm trying to say.

 

To take it back to the original thread, I think that if anyone is taking the black women out of the interracial dating game, it's black women. If a white guy isn't attracted to you, calling him a bigot isn't going to change him. It's not like the third time you threaten him with a suit from the ACLU he's going to break down and sleep with you. Find someone who likes you for who you are, whether your black, white, yellow, brown, or dark green. If you're dark green though, you might want to get the whole syphillus thing checked out before dating, especially interracially.

[Jeff]

dyermaker,

 

So, you believe this whole interracial dating/mating playing field is level for everyone? You don't think that we are just more likely to be attracted to some groups over the other? You don't think media influences what we perceive to be attractive and what is not?

 

I am just saying this because people tell me that these interracial dating trends (more like an osmotic gradient) is evident not only in the USA but in most Western countries.

[dyermaker]

Hey Jeff, I have a nasty habit of appearing antagonistic when I'm really not, or so I'm told.

 

Originally posted by Jeff

So, you believe this whole interracial dating/mating playing field is level for everyone?

 

I believe it's a nonissue. People shouldn't try to "correct" perceptions of attraction of the opposite race, if that's the case. I think I said it pretty clear, if someone's not attracted to you, pointing out their 'discrimination' doesn't do anyone any good. The notion of a 'level playing field' is ridiculous, it's never existed before, it doesn't exist among any one race, why should we force it upon the entire globe? People will always have their preferences.

 

In Kindergarten, on Valentine's day, you had to get a Valentine for every student in the class, regardless of whether you really wanted them to "Be Yours" This was so people didn't feel bad, and the notion that a kindergarten classroom should be a microcosm of adult relationships is lame, I'd love to see a middle-aged married couple struggle with one another to color within the lines, you know?

 

You don't think that we are just more likely to be attracted to some groups over the other?

 

In terms of physical attraction, of course we are. You wouldn't call me sexist for only being attracted to women, you wouldn't call me hateful if I only liked brunettes--why should I be a racist for not preferring $minority_group[x] ?

 

You don't think media influences what we perceive to be attractive and what is not?

 

I don't think I addressed that at all. Honestly, we'd both have to study about the subliminal natures of attraction a lot more before hypothesizing on such things, but if you want my unsubstantiated thought--No. I don't think the media influences our perceptions of an attractive person. I love a girl with imagination, with a good heart, with a nice rack, and pretty hair--regardless if such a person appeared on TV. Many people assert that once obesity was attractive, but now the media has made it so that it is not. I disagree, I believe those who are attracted to a skinny chick have actual biological urges to do so. When a peacock female searches for a male, she looks for the biggest feathers. Big feathers, peacockwise, are EXTREMELY detrimental, they slow you down and make you easily spotted by predators. However, the reason the female is attracted to said peacock is because, "Hey, he's got this incredible disability, yet he's still able to survive, he must be incredibly strong" Comparatively, a woman who was skinny, primitively speaking, is malnourished, and yet she's still able to survive, which would make her suitable for impregnating, with such a strong genetic profile. I hate the thought of blending Darwinism and Humanity, but I'm willing to stoop that way if someone thinks that TV influences our innate sexual desires. Again, I haven't done any research, but I haven't seen any either, so I think the media issue honestly has nothing to do with it.

[claudia]

i was searching the internet for some stats on the wm/af and bm /wf when i came across this article and i thought for all who are interested should give it a read but be warned its a bit lenghty but the information may help with this thread .

 

 

http://www.isteve.com/IsLoveColorblind.htm

[Darkangelism]

That article is interesting

[amerikajin]

(posted from the article)>>>Nor is it surprising that white - Asian marriages outnumber black - white marriages: the social distance between whites and Asians is now far smaller than the distance between blacks and whites. What's fascinating, however, is that in recent years a startling number of nonwhites -- especially Asian men and black women -- have become bitterly opposed to intermarriage<<< (posted from the article)

 

That's exactly what I've been trying to say. The fact that white men and black women don't marry is precisely do to the historical differences between the two segments of the population.

 

The good news (and I agree with the article) is that the situation is improving. But I don't believe it's improving because of the triumph over white racism per se; rather, I think it's because in the time since the civil rights movement began, more blacks have been able to realize the dream of socio-economic mobility. More blacks (men and women) are becoming attorneys, doctors, business owners and are in a host of other professions as well. As this trend continues, more and more whites of both genders will begin to accept blacks as their equal. It can't happen through affirmative action giveaways; it can only happen through the determination of African Americans to leave the ghetto behind and join everyone else, which can be a challenge in and of itself. I think there's a strong pressure to remain true to the ghetto, but in so doing, they deny themselves the very access to influence they need to promote the wellbeing of their communities. We have a Mrs. Black America; Historically Black Colleges; African American Societies and clubs; and other messages pressuring talented blacks into staying close to their "hood". I think this needs to change. At the risk of sounding condescending, it's a disservice to the black community.

 

Whites (and other ethnicities) on the other hand, should cooperate with blacks as they try to move out from the shackles of urban blight. Racism isn't dead. We shouldn't be blind to it. We shouldn't look the other way when we see it. We will never be color blind, but if we are lucky, we can reduce the extent to which we are color conscious.

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by amerikajin

The fact that white men and black women don't marry is precisely do to the historical differences between the two segments of the population.

What a ridiculously unsubstantiated and subjective statement.

 

More and more whites of both genders will begin to accept blacks as their equal. It can't happen through affirmative action giveaways; it can only happen through the determination of African Americans to leave the ghetto behind and join everyone else, which can be a challenge in and of itself. I think there's a strong pressure to remain true to the ghetto, but in so doing, they deny themselves the very access to influence they need to promote the wellbeing of their communities.

 

I love that, it's very, very true. Some of the black students at my school bitch and moan about the reason they get F's is because white people are getting A's--when truly it's because they are unmotivated, and embrace "cultural apathy" towards education--which they almost look down on. Spike Lee gave a speech basically on what you just said, that it's the triumph of the black people to emerge from stereotypes, not the responsibility of the whites to free them from bondage.

[amerikajin]

>>>What a ridiculously unsubstantiated and subjective statement.<<<

 

It's an opinion, Dyer.

 

You don't have to agree with it.

 

Obviously, you don't.

 

I'd point out, however, that this tends to be a subjective discussion, so you'll have to pardon the occasional, ahem, subjectivity.

 

I stand by what I said. Generally speaking, white men don't marry black women because black women (more than Whites, Latinos, Asians or whomever) are at the greatest distance from them socially and economically. I don't think it's so overt or conscious as saying "Oh, wait, I can't marry you, my ancestors owned your ancestors." Instead, I'm saying that because the black community was injured economically, socially and politically, there are many blacks who suffer the effects of race-based subjugation. As well, I think the legacy creates the notion among many whites that black women are, well, a step down. The lowest rung on the ladder. I'm not saying that's what I believe, just that this is what I'm guessing enters the thought process of those who somehow overlook a black women as a possible mate.

 

>>>I love that, it's very, very true. <<<

 

I used to be a hardcore liberal "do-gooder" when it came to this discussion. Over time, I've changed my views. I'm still very sensitive to the complaints that are raised by blacks in the black community, but they're not served by giving them anything. Booker T. Washington said as much himself.

[Jeff]

americakajin,

 

Black women in Australia, England and Canada are very educated and some come from affluent backgrounds compared to African-American women in the USA. Yet, they too have very little intermarriage with white men. If you read the 2nd Steve Sailer article on intermarriage, it states that the recent 2000 US Census shows ever more white women marrying black men than vice versa. Similarly, more and more white men are marrying Asian women than vice versa. Sailer is arguing that in interracial marriages, some groups are bound to lose out (ie Asian men and black women). He uses a biological/hormonal approach. But, I think media still plays some factor.

 

In the past, most black/white unions were between white men and black women. It was so common for white slave masters to sleep with black female slaves, that today, at least 16% of the African American genes are Caucasian.

 

But, with our modern era and the exposure of hip hop and sports on TV, many white and other non-black women have catapulted black men's sexual desirability.

 

On the same token, white men's traditional sexual appetitite for the black female slave has now been diverted to Asian women (possibly due to the wars in Asia).

 

I just like to say that I was not attracted to Hispanic and brunette Mediterranean women until I first saw the media's captivation with Cindy Crawford. Ever since that time, I have been mainly attracted to Hispanic, Mediterranean and Middle Eastern featured women. That I have to say was the result of media influences. Who you feel attracted to can change over time, and media does play its role.

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by Jeff

I just like to say that I was not attracted to Hispanic and brunette Mediterranean women until I first saw the media's captivation with Cindy Crawford. Ever since that time, I have been mainly attracted to Hispanic, Mediterranean and Middle Eastern featured women. That I have to say was the result of media influences. Who you feel attracted to can change over time, and media does play its role.

 

As far as I know, Cindy Crawford is extremely caucasian.

 

There is a hip-hop culture which is crammed down the throat of my demographic in the media. I don't find it paticularly alluring. I can then conclude that I resent media influences, right? This entire debate is oversimplified.

[amerikajin]

>>>Black women in Australia, England and Canada are very educated and some come from affluent backgrounds compared to African-American women in the USA. Yet, they too have very little intermarriage with white men. If you read the 2nd Steve Sailer article on intermarriage, it states that the recent 2000 US Census shows ever more white women marrying black men than vice versa. Similarly, more and more white men are marrying Asian women than vice versa. Sailer is arguing that in interracial marriages, some groups are bound to lose out (ie Asian men and black women). He uses a biological/hormonal approach. But, I think media still plays some factor. <<<

 

I would agree with you: the media does play SOME factor. It's not the only factor, and I'm not even convinced it's the dominant factor. There's no question, though, that if the networks had a popular sitcom starring a white man married to a black woman, the idea might receive more "acceptance" in some communities where it isn't accepted socially for the time being.

 

As for global demographic trends of matrimony, I think that some of the issues that you see in America are played out elsewhere to varying degrees. Again, you don't see a lot of miscegenation anywhere for that matter. It's just that when it occurs, it appears to be happening between members of some races more than others. I don't know as much about how the intermarriage trends of other countries. My guess is that people everywhere probably make broad generalizations, some of which are media-based, and some aren't. I think white men everywhere think of Asian women as sweet, loyal, submissive little housewives who are good in bed. The unflattering image of black women is probably closer to that of the tough African tribal princess, an image that has its roots in history but one that is also perpetuated by Discovery Channel specials who would rather show that side the black race than the one that shows women as lawyers, public officials, doctors or corporate executives. For white men, the loyal submissive housewife is more attractive than the woman who's either running around in the bush or competing for his job. Either way, the black woman gets f*cked (or fails to, depending on how you look at it).

 

>>>In the past, most black/white unions were between white men and black women. It was so common for white slave masters to sleep with black female slaves, that today, at least 16% of the African American genes are Caucasian. <<<

 

Don't confuse a white man's sexual escapades with a "union". Many white slave masters were trying to accomplish two things at the same time: 1) sexual gratification; and 2) more slave offspring. Remember, in the Old South, half white was, in fact, black.

 

>>>But, with our modern era and the exposure of hip hop and sports on TV, many white and other non-black women have catapulted black men's sexual desirability. <<<

 

Black women have also been thrust into the spotlight, and I mean some reaaallly attractive black women, like Vanessa Williams, Beyonce, Janet Jackson, Destiny's Child, Tyra Banks, Halle Berry, TLC, Lisa Leslie and many others. There are lots of black female hotties out there, but the ones you see on tv aren't the ones most of us see in real life. God, I'd drop my pants in a heartbeat for any of the aforementioned black babes, but that's because I'm operating under the assumption that they've got all of the things I'm looking for in a woman: good health, good education, ambition (and better yet, success), and just general attractiveness.

 

>>>On the same token, white men's traditional sexual appetitite for the black female slave has now been diverted to Asian women (possibly due to the wars in Asia). <<<

 

Slavery died out in Europe well before it did in America, so I think that most Westerners haven't been so much affected by the slavery issue. I think that white men have long had the notion about the submissive Asian woman, particularly with respect to Japan. In fact, most white men completely misunderstand Japanese women - they aren't submissive at all. Japanese women are used to having clearly defined roles, and outside the house, the men rule; inside the house, Japanese women operate the exchequer as though they were Fortune 500 CEOs. They decide how much money their husbands can have to go out drinking on a certain night. They cut up any credit card that isn't necessary. A husband can't go shopping unless he has permission from the wife to do it first, which is usually why you won't find too many men shopping alone on a weekend (the wife is standing closeby, if not arm in arm). By no means is this universal, but it's typical. I point this out only to show the discrepancy between the image and the reality.

 

As for Chinese women, the ones I've dated haven't been that different. They, too, are willing to submit to a man certain privileges. It's not because they're interested in being slaves; rather, it's because they accept that a man and woman have certain roles in the family. Chinese women can be very, very strong and even intimidating sometimes. I've been on the receiving end of some tonguelashings.

[addfdsaf]

Most men dont find too many black women attractive, and most women dont find too many asian men attractive. The two sides should just get together, so lets end these old topics already.

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by addfdsaf

Most men dont find too many black women attractive, and most women dont find too many asian men attractive. The two sides should just get together, so lets end these old topics already.

 

Great advice, you should be in charge of the Minsistry of Matrimony.

[whatswrong23]

well, lets see...i am black and both of my children are half puertorican (my ex husband is puertorican), my boyfriend right now is mexican, and for some reason, alot of white guys like me.....and I date plenty of asian and of course, black men...i say to each his own because I love all the many men in the world...especially the ones that love me back! I think life would so boring and plain if I just stuck to one color of males....boring, i say...BORING!

[whatswrong23]

we are not all ugly and ghetto...just some of us...just like not all white women are trailer trash and just like not all asian women are easy and strippers....see, so many stereotypes its embarrassing!

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by whatswrong23

here i am:

 

You're very pretty, not sure if that was what you were looking for.

[whatswrong23]

thanks but the whole point is that i don't look beyonce or halle berry or vivica fox.....just like not all pretty asian women look like lucy liu, or white women look like pam anderson, and not all hispanic women look like jlo....thats just hollywood's perspective of us.....of course some people are a little nervous with things that are different than what they are used to.....but sometimes you never know what you miss until you try it out! I never say never...i am really open minded when it comes to dating.....

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by whatswrong23

...or white women look like pam anderson...

 

Really? We get Pam Anderson? Gross, of all the pretty white women... We should get Catherine Zeta-Jones.

[Aliya]

I was researching interracial marriages for a debate in school and this is one of the things that came up. Curious, I decided to read a few posts and I was geniunely shocked at what I was reading. Yes, I'm aware that there is racism throughout the world and that I have been sheltered from it, for the most part, living in the intensely multi-cultural city of Toronto but I still found it appalling at the harsh, even ignorant comments made in this thread. Some people have valid points, but others are ridiculous. Maybe at 18 years of age I'm not worldly or experienced enough to even be commenting. I just find it hard to believe some of the things said in this thread.

 

There are so many stereotypes being cast around. Black women aren't educated, asians are submissive and etc. Yes this might be true for some of the population but there is really no point in generalizing. There are so many exceptions to each stereotype that the stereotypes are becoming irrelevant. I'm an Indian, born in England, raised in Canada and I think that I'm as far away from stereotypes as possible. I'm not poor, I'd like to think that I'm literate and well-educated, and I'm far from shy and submissive. This is the case for all my friends as well. You are a product of your surroundings, not of your race. And I feel the sense that I'm going to go off topic so I'll just stop. If anyone has any views on the pros of interracial marriages, I would appreciate if you post them.

 

Thanks.

[look forward]

Aliya i'm with you on this one kiddo and your views are just as valued here so your age isn't an issue.. I was also appauled at some of the comments made in relation to this topic.. espcially being a Black woman it shocked me that in society today people still have these sort of opinions..

 

You hit the nail on the head with "You are a product of your surroundings, not of your race." I couldn't have said it better myself..

 

When i go out I never have any trouble attacting men period.. sometimes they are white, sometimes they are black sometimes they are indian or even oriental.. yet according to some people on this forum I am at the bottom of the dating pool, and am either too ugly, too fat, or just too god damn black to get any interest...

 

Thank goodness there are still people out there who dont all think like that

[asiangirl]

I think people are missing the whole point of inter-racial dating/marriages. Not all inter-racial couples are with each other because of racial history/preconceived stereotypes. Sometimes two people of different races meet and they fall in love. I know when I first meet a man, regardless of race, what would attract me to him is charm, humor, appearance, manners, and intellect.

 

I think the reason black women are not paired with white men as much is because of their role in the black community. Black women are the back bones of their community, they keep their families together. That type of culture generally encourage dating within one's race to keep the community going as a whole. Same as the Asian community, dating outside the Asian race is still something undesired.

 

As for the article referred to above stating that asian females are viewed to be more feminine than white and black females, I must say I have heard the complete opposite. I think asian peoples are viewed as more youthful due to their features being more delicate, it has been a known fact that asian women ages much more gracefully than their non-asian counterparts. And with youth being a desirable trait in the mating dance, it is possible that is why asian women are sought after. However, being an asian female who grew up in America, I have been told countless of times that asian women are consider as less attractive than white women. In fact most white women I have met made it known that they can take any man away from any asian woman. Also I have been told by white men that in general, white women are preferred. It has also been said that asian women usually end up with men that white women don't want to date. And from observations in the past, this used to be the trend. However with more asian faces in the media today, asian women finally have their unique beaty appreciated.

 

My experience as an asian woman have always been that if I happen to be with a white man who is consider good quality (read not nerdy, ugly, or socially inept), I have always encountered animosity from white women and asian men. However, when an asian man is with a white women, the asian community cheer him on as a great man who gets the bring home the grand prize. How is this double standard fair? I assume the same goes for black women who dates white men, they are viewed as gold diggers or bowing to the power of the white men but when a black man brings home a white woman, he has proven himself as a success.