Handling Teasing

[VertexSquared]

I feel like you have insecurities of your own or are afraid to be alone, and have a desire to be loved at the expense of self-respect. Every time he plays up to you, you get drawn back in and you assume he's making a serious effort, but then you're right back here again with the same complaints.

 

Be strong and stand up for yourself. You've made yourself clear -- so you need to stick by your own boundaries. He needs to know that you are absolutely not going to tolerate BS.

[Zapbasket]

I feel like you have insecurities of your own or are afraid to be alone, and have a desire to be loved at the expense of self-respect. Every time he plays up to you, you get drawn back in and you assume he's making a serious effort, but then you're right back here again with the same complaints.

 

Be strong and stand up for yourself. You've made yourself clear -- so you need to stick by your own boundaries. He needs to know that you are absolutely not going to tolerate BS.

 

 

I'm sure I have my insecurities, but the way I experience the aftermath of one of his rudenesses is just a dull period of bafflement that someone would knowingly be so rude. I feel this sense of having somehow gotten off course, and I try to right it. And then later, all I feel is a desire to be rid of his company once and for all. I don't enjoy his company anymore; he stopped even being basically nice. He has moments, but then you're right; it's always back at this place.

 

I'm not afraid to be alone; in face, I'd love it right now so that I can focus on my work and getting settled in this town and just have a break from all the unpleasantness that has characterized my move out west from the east coast.

 

I'm more afraid to be with him.

 

Or rather, I'm afraid to tell him it's over, to end it and walk away even though I suspect once he has his negative response to the news and we part ways, all I'll feel is relief.

 

I've never once in my life given up on someone, to where I've had to say to their face that I don't wish to have a relationship with them. As things stand right now with N, I don't even feel like saying I want us to be friends. Even a friend would not treat me the way he treats me. And so knowing I don't even feel like saying, "I think we're better off as friends," I don't know what to say.

 

Especially now that he can play the martyr and say he so generously helped me move this weekend, got his dad to loan his truck, etc.

 

And I just don't understand how or why domeone can be such a boor. I know I've been nothing but lovely to him, and so I just don't get it. And then I stand there scratching my head, feeling like I'm in a foreign land of rudeness and boorishness.

Edited June 25, 2010 by GreenCove

[Zapbasket]

Is my situation so hopeless that no one wants to help?

[espec10001]

Dump him! This guy sounds immature. A guy should do his best to make a lady feel comfortable being around him and having fun experiences together. He shouldn't be cutting you down! It only shows his insecurities!

 

I'm sure there are plenty of other guys you could date or if you go out and make yourself available they will come to you.

[Zapbasket]

THanks espec, I think you're right on all counts.

 

It's just...why am I so afraid to end things, if I KNOW that awaiting me on the other side is relief and the freedom finally to build my life here with REAL friends????? Has anyone ever felt this way?

[mem11363]

GC,

My guess is that he is aware that you were eventually going to find him lacking. He sounds like a smart guy, which means he only has two choices for creating equality. He can drag you down or lift himself up.

 

Everyone is vulnerable when they are first learning a skill. Even more so in front of someone they are dating. He absolutely knows that. Are you going to be ok when he dubs you Fat Ivy some day when you are pregnant?

 

This might be less about sadism and more of a dominance strategy. He gets "on top" of the performance hierarchy by pulling others down, not by excelling himself. Notice - he does MORE of it, if it is "working".

 

If his behavior at work is anything like how he acts with you it will KILL his career.

 

 

 

Thanks ADF and Jersey Shortie. Does what you say still stand even in light of my update (above, page 4 of this thread)? I thought when I called him out on his behavior that he'd just brush it off, but instead he apologized. And even in the moment I had two reactions: first, pleasure and surprise that he was so self-aware and willing to cop to his faults...but then second, that gut instinct Brainygirl referred to that made me think, "If he knows he is frustrated, etc., then why couldn't he curb himself BEFORE he stepped over the line?"

[TaraMaiden]

I just don't understand why I couldn't have ended it. Has anyone else been in a situation like this? I'm almost ashamed of myself...no, maybe more baffled at myself than anything else.

 

I just don't think he's pushed you far enough, and while there is something in this for you, you'll carry on until he reaches your limit.

It's a question of timing.

I'm not criticising you, but so far, you are getting some gratification out of this, even if it's a lesson in how tolerant you can be, what you will stand for and what you won't.

 

Something in this is keeping your interest.

When the downs outweigh the ups, then you'll snap.

Until then, you're looking forward to the good stuff, and keeping note of the bad stuff.

 

The trouble only comes when you realise just how much of your own life you're wasting, and how much happier you might have been, if you'd got out earlier......

[espec10001]

THanks espec, I think you're right on all counts.

 

It's just...why am I so afraid to end things, if I KNOW that awaiting me on the other side is relief and the freedom finally to build my life here with REAL friends????? Has anyone ever felt this way?

 

Yes. It's one of those things when you are in a new place and making friends is hard. You have to go through some shady characters to get to the good ones. And taking that first step to break away from someone who is not healthy for you is difficult because you're not sure how you are supposed to do it because you are in a new town and finding another won't be as easy.

 

If you are living in a new place then it would be a good idea to focus on building real friendships with people that have common interests with you and THEN look for a romantic partner. This way if the romantic partner isn't meeting your expectations (as in this case) you have friends you can hang out with and have fun!

[Zapbasket]

Thanks, mem11363. What you say sounds spot-on.

 

GC,

My guess is that he is aware that you were eventually going to find him lacking. He sounds like a smart guy, which means he only has two choices for creating equality. He can drag you down or lift himself up.

 

But what about being smart enough to meet me eye to eye as an equal, which is all I ever want? Why all this above and below stuff? Why have to have so much ego in just getting to know someone and explore a relationship? I just don't understand

 

And I also don't get why he would approach things so pessimistically. Of course I'd find things about him that I don't like...and vice versa. But where I truly find him lacking is in how he copes with this so-called fear that I will eventually find him lacking. He's rude and boorish and it's really unattractive...and I thought he was better than that because I've SEEN him act better. That's what I get least of all: why, WHY, be on your LEAST good behavior around a woman you supposedly are interested in, instead of your best? Men out there, I'd really like your perspective especially on that.

 

Everyone is vulnerable when they are first learning a skill. Even more so in front of someone they are dating. He absolutely knows that. Are you going to be ok when he dubs you Fat Ivy some day when you are pregnant?

 

Absolutely not. Good point.

 

This might be less about sadism and more of a dominance strategy. He gets "on top" of the performance hierarchy by pulling others down, not by excelling himself. Notice - he does MORE of it, if it is "working".

 

If his behavior at work is anything like how he acts with you it will KILL his career.

 

That feels like that's what is going on. But then, how could he possibly think it's "working"? All it's doing is ensuring that he drives me away. I almost suspect he WANTS that outcome, that on some level he must deliberately be sabotaging this relationship precisely so that I will leave him. And that's a head-scratcher, for sure.

[Zapbasket]

I just don't think he's pushed you far enough, and while there is something in this for you, you'll carry on until he reaches your limit.

It's a question of timing.

I'm not criticising you, but so far, you are getting some gratification out of this, even if it's a lesson in how tolerant you can be, what you will stand for and what you won't.

 

Something in this is keeping your interest.

When the downs outweigh the ups, then you'll snap.

Until then, you're looking forward to the good stuff, and keeping note of the bad stuff.

 

The trouble only comes when you realise just how much of your own life you're wasting, and how much happier you might have been, if you'd got out earlier......

 

Thank you, Taramaiden, this really resonates with me. I think you are right and I hadn't thought of it this way before. I think what I'm getting out of this whole unfolding interaction is a lesson in where my boundaries really are. A friend said to me once, "You are more willing to give people chances than anyone I know." I always make excuses for people, and I try to understand where they're coming from before I cut them off. Sometimes, as a consequence, I lose sight of my own standards, and feel compelled to accept much less than truly is acceptable to me. I don't know why I do that

 

I guess also I am more afraid of losing the kindness of his mother towards me. She has been so good to me that my mother has written from back east to thank her for stepping in and making sure I'm okay when no one else out here has. My mom wants to meet her when she comes out here in a few weeks for her first visit since I moved. I feel like we really like each other but I'm sure much of her solicitude towards me has had to do with her hopes that I could be her son's girl. Which is flattering for sure, but ultimately it's not about ME but about her son. I feel like I'm rejecting HER by rejecting N.

 

But then I think I also hang on because I just cannot understand why a grown person would treat someone the way N treats me. Whatever does he get out of it? Because of his behavior, he's going to lose both a girlfriend and a friend.

[Zapbasket]

Yes. It's one of those things when you are in a new place and making friends is hard. You have to go through some shady characters to get to the good ones. And taking that first step to break away from someone who is not healthy for you is difficult because you're not sure how you are supposed to do it because you are in a new town and finding another won't be as easy.

 

Oh, good! That's what I've been telling myself, that I have to grovel through the ranks of the shady before I can get to the good people, the ones that will be my friends as a build my life here.

 

If you are living in a new place then it would be a good idea to focus on building real friendships with people that have common interests with you and THEN look for a romantic partner. This way if the romantic partner isn't meeting your expectations (as in this case) you have friends you can hang out with and have fun!

 

I agree that this is what I need to do.

[kdark]

I think you need to stop thinking about breaking up with him and just DO IT!

 

There is never a perfect time to break up with someone.

[mem11363]

GC,

This is not about raw IQ it is about accomplishment. And HE knows that the spread between his potential and actual achievements to date is big.

 

I am (very happily) married to someone who has the same "male provider profile" you do. She was not and is not materialistic. BUT she wanted to be a SAHM - she wanted at least 3 kids and frankly if she knew a guy couldn't / wouldn't pull that off he was eliminated from consideration.

 

The built in preference that the man take primary provider responsibility is hardwired in some females. Just as the preference for an attractive mate is hardwired into many males. Delighted to debate the merits of those preferences in another thread - for here lets just say that they are very powerful drivers of emotion and behavior. Ignore them at your peril.

 

So before you spend a lot more emotional energy on this guy ask yourself a question: How focused and effective is he at translating his intelligence and knowledge into money? How important is that to him? Because THAT plus the other stuff you have mentioned is ultimately why you are going to walk away.

 

From what you have written to date his ONLY real shot with you was to crumple your self esteem enough so that you would feel lucky to be with him even if he continued to grossly under achieve.

 

 

 

Thanks, mem11363. What you say sounds spot-on.

 

 

 

But what about being smart enough to meet me eye to eye as an equal, which is all I ever want? Why all this above and below stuff? Why have to have so much ego in just getting to know someone and explore a relationship? I just don't understand

 

And I also don't get why he would approach things so pessimistically. Of course I'd find things about him that I don't like...and vice versa. But where I truly find him lacking is in how he copes with this so-called fear that I will eventually find him lacking. He's rude and boorish and it's really unattractive...and I thought he was better than that because I've SEEN him act better. That's what I get least of all: why, WHY, be on your LEAST good behavior around a woman you supposedly are interested in, instead of your best? Men out there, I'd really like your perspective especially on that.

 

 

 

Absolutely not. Good point.

 

 

 

That feels like that's what is going on. But then, how could he possibly think it's "working"? All it's doing is ensuring that he drives me away. I almost suspect he WANTS that outcome, that on some level he must deliberately be sabotaging this relationship precisely so that I will leave him. And that's a head-scratcher, for sure.

[Zapbasket]

GC,

This is not about raw IQ it is about accomplishment. And HE knows that the spread between his potential and actual achievements to date is big.

 

I am (very happily) married to someone who has the same "male provider profile" you do. She was not and is not materialistic. BUT she wanted to be a SAHM - she wanted at least 3 kids and frankly if she knew a guy couldn't / wouldn't pull that off he was eliminated from consideration.

 

The built in preference that the man take primary provider responsibility is hardwired in some females. Just as the preference for an attractive mate is hardwired into many males. Delighted to debate the merits of those preferences in another thread - for here lets just say that they are very powerful drivers of emotion and behavior. Ignore them at your peril.

 

So before you spend a lot more emotional energy on this guy ask yourself a question: How focused and effective is he at translating his intelligence and knowledge into money? How important is that to him? Because THAT plus the other stuff you have mentioned is ultimately why you are going to walk away.

 

From what you have written to date his ONLY real shot with you was to crumple your self esteem enough so that you would feel lucky to be with him even if he continued to grossly under achieve.

 

I'm not sure I follow you on this one. I really don't need a man to be materially wealthy. I DO need a man to be a "provider" in the sense that he has a wired-in sense of protectiveness towards those he cares deeply about, which first and foremost would lead him to treasure them, treat them with respect, and feel a sense of responsibility towards nurturing their goals and feelings as well as his own.

 

So in my eyes, N's only chance with me was to treat me with solicitude, kindness, and respect. I do not and never have asked that a man pay for everything, but I do ask that a man trust and honor me like a best friend, with occasional flurries of "Gosh, you're amazing!" and "Man, you can be a pain in the butt!" thrown in.

 

I felt this thing with N had some real potential until he started this quest to "crush my self esteem," as you say. So, if all is as you say, he's got it all wrong. Horribly, horribly wrong.

[norajane]

But what about being smart enough to meet me eye to eye as an equal, which is all I ever want? Why all this above and below stuff? Why have to have so much ego in just getting to know someone and explore a relationship? I just don't understand

 

And I also don't get why he would approach things so pessimistically. Of course I'd find things about him that I don't like...and vice versa. But where I truly find him lacking is in how he copes with this so-called fear that I will eventually find him lacking. He's rude and boorish and it's really unattractive...and I thought he was better than that because I've SEEN him act better. That's what I get least of all: why, WHY, be on your LEAST good behavior around a woman you supposedly are interested in, instead of your best? Men out there, I'd really like your perspective especially on that.

 

Are you unaware that men and women have intimacy issues, insecurities, and commitment phobia? What better way to avoid true intimacy and commitment than to sabotage all of your relationships, one way or another?

 

Good lord, Greencove! Get over it! You are so stuck on understanding the minutiae of why's that you are missing the forest for the trees. FYI, the forest is that YOU are choosing not to break up with him, despite 6 pages of complaining about how he treats you and saying how you don't like it. His behavior is what it is, and his therapist can analyze why. YOU need to end this and get on with your life.

 

Why is it so important to you to hang onto men for dear life even if they are smacking you in the face as you hold on tighter? Analyze that. After you break up with this guy.

[Zapbasket]

Are you unaware that men and women have intimacy issues, insecurities, and commitment phobia? What better way to avoid true intimacy and commitment than to sabotage all of your relationships, one way or another?

 

Good lord, Greencove! Get over it! You are so stuck on understanding the minutiae of why's that you are missing the forest for the trees. FYI, the forest is that YOU are choosing not to break up with him, despite 6 pages of complaining about how he treats you and saying how you don't like it. His behavior is what it is, and his therapist can analyze why. YOU need to end this and get on with your life.

 

Why is it so important to you to hang onto men for dear life even if they are smacking you in the face as you hold on tighter? Analyze that. After you break up with this guy.

 

Hey NJ. Thanks for your thoughts; spot-on, as always

 

You know, it's not just men, it's people, and I'm increasingly aware of it, and frankly I have no idea why I do it. I'm sure it's a large part of the reason why I work in psychology. Friends are calling me out on it, why I don't walk away when people do crappy things to me, and it's a blind spot for sure. I'm baffled because I seem stuck, like with this guy. I should have ended it weeks ago and I just can't bring myself to do it even though all logic points to the need to do so.

 

Pretty nuts, huh?

[norajane]

Hey NJ. Thanks for your thoughts; spot-on, as always

 

You know, it's not just men, it's people, and I'm increasingly aware of it, and frankly I have no idea why I do it. I'm sure it's a large part of the reason why I work in psychology. Friends are calling me out on it, why I don't walk away when people do crappy things to me, and it's a blind spot for sure. I'm baffled because I seem stuck, like with this guy. I should have ended it weeks ago and I just can't bring myself to do it even though all logic points to the need to do so.

 

Pretty nuts, huh?

 

If you have friends calling you out on it when they see you doing it, then start heeding their warnings and walk away when they tell you. Consider it a form of CBT.

 

And, consider that the more often you do it, the more likely that you will ease your fear of walking away (whatever is behind it), and the easier it will become for you to walk away when you are being treated badly. Or systematic desensitization, if you prefer.

[Zapbasket]

If you have friends calling you out on it when they see you doing it, then start heeding their warnings and walk away when they tell you. Consider it a form of CBT.

 

And, consider that the more often you do it, the more likely that you will ease your fear of walking away (whatever is behind it), and the easier it will become for you to walk away when you are being treated badly. Or systematic desensitization, if you prefer.

 

Damned good analogy, NJ! Okay, I'll try. In the meantime, I have to go meet him so we can begin the 200 mile drive to pick up my furniture. I'm nervous. Will post on what happens...

[mem11363]

Perhaps I misunderstood your earlier posts. I got the impression you found his lack of career ambition to be disappointing.

 

I'm not sure I follow you on this one. I really don't need a man to be materially wealthy. I DO need a man to be a "provider" in the sense that he has a wired-in sense of protectiveness towards those he cares deeply about, which first and foremost would lead him to treasure them, treat them with respect, and feel a sense of responsibility towards nurturing their goals and feelings as well as his own.

 

So in my eyes, N's only chance with me was to treat me with solicitude, kindness, and respect. I do not and never have asked that a man pay for everything, but I do ask that a man trust and honor me like a best friend, with occasional flurries of "Gosh, you're amazing!" and "Man, you can be a pain in the butt!" thrown in.

 

I felt this thing with N had some real potential until he started this quest to "crush my self esteem," as you say. So, if all is as you say, he's got it all wrong. Horribly, horribly wrong.

[Zapbasket]

So, the weekend N. helped me move, we had a great time and he was so helpful, solution-oriented and supportive that I ended the weekend feeling that ending things was unthinkable. Also, I met a bunch of his long-time friends and they were lovely people; I felt more hopeful about N's character and the possibility of things unfolding really well between us.

 

Here I am, then, nearly 4 months later, and we are still together. There have been some really amazing times. With him, I truly "made love" for the first time--meaning, rather than sex or even just "tender sex" I felt we were really, truly, making *love.* It really floored me, and it was clear it affected him a lot, as well. For months he has alluded to having really, really strong feelings for me, and this past week he told me he loved me and I told him the same.

 

He does spark some very strong feelings in me. He's been loyal, solicitous, helpful, and communicative when problems between us have arisen. He's gotten *better* about the teasing that inspired this thread, but I have had to get after him a lot about his insensitivities...like training a wayward puppy, or so it feels sometimes.

 

This past week, just two days after our first exchange of "I love you's," I quietly told him I was hurt by some of his comments about certain family members of mine, who are dead and who when alive I loved very much. Rather than take it as an opportunity to learn more about each other, etc., he took it as me getting after him, and blew up, saying I was being "ridiculous" (um, he called my elegant, loving grandmother a "nut job") and "oversensitive." When I got visibly hurt by his blow up, he blew up even more, pacing my living room and at one point even saying, "F*ck you" to me. I asked him to leave, and he drove away. About 20 minutes later he came over again; I let him in and we calmly talked through things.

 

But the next day I still was very hurt. Not, at that point, by his comments about my family as he explained where he was coming from and even though I still think he was an insensitive idiot to have said those things, it became clear his intentions were well-meaning. What hurt me was the fact that just 2 days after telling me he loves me, he could stand in my home and yell at me the way he did.

 

I see a pattern with us that is akin to the original teasing issue discussed in this thread, where I tend to be very sensitive, sometimes admittedly "oversensitive" in that my feelings can be hurt easily, and he is hypersensitive to criticism such that when I say I feel hurt or offended by something he's said, he either tries to minimize my feelings ("Oh, quit it"; "It's not that big a deal"; "Quit being so sensitive"; etc.), or he gets loudly frustrated and angry. I've stayed on as long as I have because he consistently makes an effort to work with me to work out our differences, and is honest, communicative, listens to what I say, and will offer a sincere apology when he realizes that he is in the wrong (and I do the same for him, when I'm in the wrong). I know he cares. But the original dynamic, while it has evolved, hasn't changed at core. He's more supportive than he was in the beginning, but he still can be rough and un-gentlemanly and tease when I feel it's more appropriate for us both to be more serious, or sensitive.

 

I was really bummed after this last argument because until that point we'd had a lovely evening together and then bam! there we were again. And since then (this was last Thursday evening), I've not felt the same as before. I feel like maybe we're just not compatible, and I'd be better off letting him go so that I can meet someone with better manners. I feel like he loves me, in his own way, and he's sincere, but I want more respect than he gives me, more sensitivity.

 

So does that suggest we're just not compatible and I should throw in the towel? *Sigh* I'm so bad at this.

[gypsy_nicky]

I would like to agree about what everyone said here. YOur current squeeze has control issues and the more you pursue and become deeply involved, the harder it will be to get out. He does it very effectively too, in a very rat cunning way. Passive aggressive.

 

I don't know whether you have esteem issues also but the more you stay with a person like this, the more of your esteem will be eroded.

 

It's not about compatibility because someone like your SO will do it in every relationship he will get into. Its just a matter of finding the right girl (usually pretty messed up too) to become his 'slave'.

 

You should praise yourself for being able to spot behaviors such as these.

[Zapbasket]

Thanks for your response, Gypsy-Nicky. He knows I'm upset with him. He had a big job interview yesterday and I was supportive and encouraging while he gave me a recap of the interview, but I feel different towards him, distant. I'm really mulling things over. A friend of mine who just married told me if her husband ever said, "F*ck you" to her, she'd seriously consider an annulment. She absolutely does not think I'm overreacting to this last incident, and I imagine many of you on here would agree with her.

 

It's hard, because if there were no precedent to this incident, then it probably wouldn't have affected me as much as it did. I just feel like something has snapped, because now I see the pattern and I think what I'm seeing is that while at times it's really, really good, that dynamic that has made me uneasy from the outset never goes away...and probably never will. It pains me to write that last bit.

 

And this morning I found this on my car windshield:

"My Dearest GreenCove, A note to say how much you mean to me. All I could think of was how blessed I am to have you in my life while I was driving back from [my job interview]. You, my love, deserve everything that you dream of and more. You are a gift. With love and admiration, _.

 

It's very sweet, but it's like he feels this is going to make up for his outburst last week. I know he feels awful about it, but I don't think he knows how he can stop himself from doing it again. He's acknowledged to me several times that the men in his family all have high irritability, and acknowledged that he shares that trait. He has acknowledged that it is a problem...but I can't help feeling that as long as I stick around, it's like I'm implicitly condoning this behavior.

 

What would it take for him to feel the absolute necessity of changing this behavior? Not even just for this relationship, but for his whole life???

[Crazy Magnet]

WTF?

 

No man (or woman for that matter) who LOVES me gets to say "F*ck You!!" and get to stay in my life another five minutes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

How much are you going to put up with from this guy? That is not love, that is control.

 

I'm livid! I would NEVER say that to my boyfriend and he would never say that to me. Sure, we have little arguments, but we would never blow up at each other like that.

 

You sound a lot like one of my best girlfriends. She's "oversensitive" and can easily get her feelings hurt. Having a relationship with her is very hard and sometimes I have no idea how her fiance deals with it, but he would never do that to her because he loves her and he knows what kind of damage a comment like that could do. There are plenty of men out there who are self aware enough to date a sensitive girl (my BF is also one of them as I probably fall into the oversensitive category too.)

 

Your gut has been telling you something for quite sometime and you aren't listening to it. Listen to it.

[GorillaTheater]

A friend of mine who just married told me if her husband ever said, "F*ck you" to her, she'd seriously consider an annulment.

 

I agree with your friend and the other posters. If my wife said this to me, I think there's a good chance that I'd call time on the marriage. My friends and I might trade good-natured "f*ck yous", but coming from an SO out of anger? In my book it's abuse, and it's not to be tolerated.

[Zapbasket]

Thanks Crazy Magnet. I think you pinpointed why I'm NOT listening to my gut: I KNOW I'm oversensitive, and so I question myself a lot. Often I read into things and embarrassed later at how far off I was in terms of the person's intentions. Or, intellectually I'll know the person meant no harm, but emotionally I might still feel a twinge of hurt at their comment. I'm always having to check myself. And I do that here, too. Is it oversensitive of me to be offended that he alluded to my dead grandmother as a "nut job"? He didn't mean it disparagingly; I was telling him about my nutty aunt and he asked if there was mental illness on that side of my family and I said there was a propensity for depression and then he asked, "So was your grandmother a nut job?" I thought it was very gauche of him, but still, he meant no harm.

 

Maybe another woman would not be so offended by N's teasing and irritability?