Same ol' same ol'??

[fooled once]

He emailed me, and this is the abridged version:

 

1. You’ve been unbelievably patient. I have been trying all afternoon to write something and can't find the words.

2. I am so sorry for the way I behave towards you honey, time after time. I scare and repulse myself that I can shut myself away when you ask for answers. It's not that I don't care, I’ve just been totally paralysed with indecision, and every day that passes the worse it gets.

3. I am finding it hard to let go of what I have with [wife]. That is what stops me making a 100% commitment to us. I’ve thought about it a lot. It’s not just guilt. I don’t think, deep down, I want to leave my marriage.

4. I need to be sure, absolutely 100% positive in my own mind that me are [wife] are over, before I can be honest with you and say it’s [me] and [you], forever. So many times already I’ve made promises and broken them, and seen how much hurt it causes you. I don’t want to do that. When I say it, I want to mean it, and commit to it.

5. While I have even the smallest residual feelings for [wife] I find this hard. When I move out, things will be better.

6. I don't know how much longer I can go on. It is bringing out the worst in me and I am ill with worry, and worst of all, so are you.

7. [Lots of compliments and loving things.]

8. But I know that not having you in my life is just too difficult to contemplate. Not having the wonderful happy loving times we have is, well, not right. I truly believe we belong together.

 

 

I have replied, but I'd love your feedback if possible, even though I think it's going to HURT!!!!

 

Oh poor boy <insert sarcasm>

 

Honey, definitely cut your losses. This isn't a man, this is a little, immature boy who doesn't know if he wants cake or ice cream, so instead, has both.

 

I divorced my H of 9 years (there was no affair). I KNEW in my heart the marriage was over, although I still cared about him as a person. BUT I knew in my heart we would NOT grow old together. Too many things happened (no cheating) but things that were not repairable.

 

My H divorced his wife of 12 years (again, no affair). They drifted apart. He could have stayed married ... but why waste his life. He, like me, had children who were young.

 

I thank God daily that He allowed us to find each other and fall in love He shows me daily through his actions his love and I do my best to do the same.

 

I firmly believe don't make a promise you can't keep. Don't piss on me and tell me it is raining. Don't make plans if you can't follow through.

 

This guy's 'indecision' is utter crap. He has been avoiding you because he knows you are DONE waiting. He didn't go to work because he didn't want to answer your call. He is a pathetic excuse of a man.

 

Decisions are hard, so is being a grown up. Obviously, those are 2 things he can't do. You do NOT want someone who can't commit to you - and ONLY you. You don't want to have to be his mommy in addition to his partner.

 

I know it hurts, I really do. But in the end, this is for the best. You can still dream of your future, but the man you will be sharing it with will be someone you love, respect, can depend on and who KNOWS what he wants and is willing to go for it!

[Silly_Girl]

You're right. But the mind plays such cruel tricks. I am someone who believes that you work for good stuff, you don't wait for it to be handwrapped and forced upon you. I felt we were worth the effort. But it would be hard.

 

I was with my ex-husband for 6 years, married for 4. I too left, I knew (we knew, I acknowledged it first) we were not going to grow old together and we'd been too rash. I think it's wrong and selfish to stay with someone if you aren't going to give it everything you've got. I left with no one to go to. I left my second relationship (8 yrs) because it was abusive. That was so hard, I had to be so smart and so determined. I had no one to go to.

 

My guy has had it so easy from me, and clearly expects it to continue that way. But yes, as you say, I want someone I can depend on. I just feel so lonely after the terrific bond I felt with him. But I suppose some of that 'bond' was due to the circumstances. It must be easy to think someone's amazing when you never have the chance to get bored of them or yearn for time alone. So easy for it all to seem amazing.

 

I still hope he works a miracle but realistically, it's not going to happen. And if it did, I still wouldn't be getting what I deserved, I am pretty sure of that.

[Silly_Girl]

Thought I had slept pretty well, considering. Turns out it was 2.5 hours and I'm shattered.

 

I woke to tears. Regretting sending an email saying I want nothing to do with him while things are like this. Wishing I had engineered some sort of compromise. Probably once he'd moved out and was spending more time with me and none with her it would have made my life so easy.

 

But I have waited and waited. I wanted to be wanted, not just be The One through my efforts and making, if that makes sense. It was hurting way too much. It might have taken weeks or months for him to 'decide' all over again (despite me having had his decision to choose me previously).

 

I miss the banter and the loving stuff. It's amazing how even texts can mean so much. Dreading going to work. With the no sleep and the crying I look like I've been punched!!

[Lovelybird]

The pain of pining for someone can be so addictive that you think the man is the most wonderful man in the world.

 

I hope you don't spend another 8 years to find out who he is.

[Silly_Girl]

We've split 8 months to the day that we met. How strange that we had things planned for 18 months time yet 2 weeks later it's all finished. Feels like the most enormous void. I'm going to try and sleep some more as I have to be up in an hour or two. Thing is, I'm pretty sure the 2.5 hours I got is all there is and I shall just lay and cry. How pathetic. How immature and ridiculous.

[silverplanets]

He emailed me, and this is the abridged version:

 

1. You’ve been unbelievably patient. I have been trying all afternoon to write something and can't find the words.

2. I am so sorry for the way I behave towards you honey, time after time. I scare and repulse myself that I can shut myself away when you ask for answers. It's not that I don't care, I’ve just been totally paralysed with indecision, and every day that passes the worse it gets.

3. I am finding it hard to let go of what I have with [wife]. That is what stops me making a 100% commitment to us. I’ve thought about it a lot. It’s not just guilt. I don’t think, deep down, I want to leave my marriage.

4. I need to be sure, absolutely 100% positive in my own mind that me are [wife] are over, before I can be honest with you and say it’s [me] and [you], forever. So many times already I’ve made promises and broken them, and seen how much hurt it causes you. I don’t want to do that. When I say it, I want to mean it, and commit to it.

5. While I have even the smallest residual feelings for [wife] I find this hard. When I move out, things will be better.

6. I don't know how much longer I can go on. It is bringing out the worst in me and I am ill with worry, and worst of all, so are you.

7. [Lots of compliments and loving things.]

8. But I know that not having you in my life is just too difficult to contemplate. Not having the wonderful happy loving times we have is, well, not right. I truly believe we belong together.

 

 

I have replied, but I'd love your feedback if possible, even though I think it's going to HURT!!!!

 

Hi SG,

 

This email sucks big time.

 

He's telling you that "upon reflection" he told you a load of crap before ... whoops sorry for that "my love"....

 

And worse, he's trying to keep you tied in with this truly belong together crap.

 

Do you know, at this point imho it doesn't matter what he says ... what he says is just crap to make HIM feel better and more justified ... what matters is how he has acted and behaved.

 

What you have to realise is that he will not be telling his wife what he has written above .. ie ... lets give it a try wife and then if not I will go to my other woman. No way. He won't be telling her that at all .... no wife in their right mind would accept that proposal.

 

So his back up plan (coming back to you) is his little secret from his wife ... and so guess what ... he can "try again" with his own secret little back up plan whilst his wife thinks its for real.

 

Many, many years ago my xMW did the same thing to me .... I just forwarded the email to her cc her husband and told her to leave me alone from now on.

 

Watching how she behaved when I removed her back-up plan was an education in life itself :)

 

You seem to have yourself a grade 1 slime on your hands SG ... albeit one to can eloquently express it in writing.

 

Personally I prefer slime to be honest and written straight - at least then i can respect them for being who they are.

 

*you* deserve so much more ... and don't confuse feeling hurt, mucked about and any latent feelings from your own D with any kind of feeling as to why you should let this guy abuse you ... and I am sorry .. but emails like this are, imho, abuse.

 

Dump him, dump him hard, and forget about him.

 

You are *so* worth more

 

Chris

[Silly_Girl]

Thanks Chris.

 

I am quite tolerant in relationships. I wasn't in my first and have been since. Him being scared of the massive routine change, of sharing a flat with some kids after living with wife for 12 years, the prospect of changing job and area, the fear of whether he's doing the right thing, and so much more.

 

But there's 2 things I cannot get my head around no matter how hard I try.

 

1. If his wife means anything at all to him, how can he be happy to continue cheating on her?

 

2. If I mean anything at all to him, how can he cut contact for a week knowing it would devastate me?

 

I can look past anything and everything else. But not those. And they're going round and round in my head. I'm so confused.

 

And still I hope he reads my email and 'sees the light'. He won't. I'll never see him or speak to him ever again. Finding that pretty tough right now even though it's clear that I ought to be glad I'm shot of him. Lots of tears and blank stares and not sleeping. Want to tell his wife. Want to punch his lights out. Want to see him and be like we used to be. What a muppet I can be. Certainly seems maturity doesn't come with age in my case!!

[pnklady]

He's not even due to move out until this coming weekend but I assume there's been some attempt at reconciliation or something. His wife is able to make him feel very guilty about the tiniest things and he says she's not in charge but it certainly feels that way. You're right, it seems unlikely he would stop all contact if he intended us to have the future he said we would. Christ, I'm such a cliche!!!

 

You are assuming again that everything he told you is true. I have been on both sides of this issue and trust me - 90% of what he told is not true.

[torranceshipman]

As far as I can see he is saying that he doesn't want to leave his M, he still has feelings for his W, he has repeatedly broken promises to you, he wants your sympathy for how he is suffering (poor baby, lol), and that he wants to keep having an A with you. It is all pretty clear. I will literally eat my hat and run naked round my home town if this man leaves his W! He totally sounds like a cake eater and a very very selfish one at that.

[Silly_Girl]

Pnklady: I don't know, he used to tell me things I didn't want to hear, times she was being affectionate or actually tried to instigate a kiss. Times she opened up to him when she hadn't for a long time. When he wasn't coming to see me because he didn't feel he could miss the mother-in-law visit and she was really unhappy when it was mooted he might. And I saw some texts. I know I got a slant on his life with her, but I don't accept I only know 10%. I also saw texts from his mum to him that mentioned his wife, so I have an understanding on the perception of the relationship from that end too. But yes, I don't have a clear view, without a doubt.

[Silly_Girl]

As far as I can see he is saying that he doesn't want to leave his M, he still has feelings for his W, he has repeatedly broken promises to you, he wants your sympathy for how he is suffering (poor baby, lol), and that he wants to keep having an A with you. It is all pretty clear. I will literally eat my hat and run naked round my home town if this man leaves his W! He totally sounds like a cake eater and a very very selfish one at that.

 

I don't understand why he's saying he is going to move out, unless he's decided it would benefit his marriage. He was moving so he could increase the nights with me...

 

But yes, you're right. It's totally $hit and I hate this.

[silverplanets]

Thanks Chris.

 

I am quite tolerant in relationships. I wasn't in my first and have been since. Him being scared of the massive routine change, of sharing a flat with some kids after living with wife for 12 years, the prospect of changing job and area, the fear of whether he's doing the right thing, and so much more.

 

But there's 2 things I cannot get my head around no matter how hard I try.

 

1. If his wife means anything at all to him, how can he be happy to continue cheating on her?

 

2. If I mean anything at all to him, how can he cut contact for a week knowing it would devastate me?

 

I can look past anything and everything else. But not those. And they're going round and round in my head. I'm so confused.

 

And still I hope he reads my email and 'sees the light'. He won't. I'll never see him or speak to him ever again. Finding that pretty tough right now even though it's clear that I ought to be glad I'm shot of him. Lots of tears and blank stares and not sleeping. Want to tell his wife. Want to punch his lights out. Want to see him and be like we used to be. What a muppet I can be. Certainly seems maturity doesn't come with age in my case!!

 

Hi SG,

 

You've kind of spelt it out in 1 and 2 .. either way it means you accepting something about who he is that doesn't perhaps fit in with what you want in someone to be your partner.

 

One could perhaps that what you;ve stated in your 2 points there is the killer in any affair relationship - he's damned in your eyes if he does and damned if he doesn't.

 

The problem, in my view, is that there was a way out ... the way out for tem is to be honest when they are required to be... if they choose not to be then from that moment on we start to see them in a new , and perhaps not so rosy, light.

 

From where he is now I am guessing that the only way he could re-build himself in your eyes would be to make a conscious decison to leave, set himself up on his own and then show you over an extended period that he really can be trusted.

 

I realised with my xMW that this meant her getting a divorce entirely under her own steam, then living alone for 6 months to two years, working through her issues and baggage etc and allowing me to see that in this time she WAS the person she first claimed to be with me.

 

When I asked myself did I think she would be able to do that my answer was, unfortunately no. Her preferred option was to keep her H going until something else came up. At which point I had to face the facts .

 

And the really hard thing, for me is, once you see someone in this light then there really is no reason to speak to them again, ever. For me, the fact she was willing to deliberately use her H meant that she was not the sort of person I would want to be with.

 

I doesnt' make it any easier though, and I sympathise hugely with your waiting for the email etc etc

 

I'm 9 months NC now and there's still difficult patches (her and I were involved on and off for about 12 years and you can't just shut feelings off) .. but I am in a much better place, I am happy with myself, I respect myself again and I know what I did was right.

 

She still has the option of divorcing and making an honest approach for me, but I don't see she ever would and perhaps more than that, I'm at the stage where I am not even sure that I would want her.

 

There's a zillion nice, sexy, decent people out there .. so why would I settle for someone who was ok with dropping me when it suited them. What if I got sick ??? Would they drop me again etc etc

 

I want someone who loves, respects and values me, for being me, not as a band-aid for their crap marriage/relationship/life.

 

You loved yourself enough to believe in love .. that doesn't make you a muppet :-) .... expecting that love from someone married to somone else ... well maybe that is muppet territory .:).. but if it is, you're not the only one, so don't beat ourself up about it.

 

Muppet's unite !!!!

 

be safe

Chris

[Silly_Girl]

Thank you so much.

hi sg,

 

you've kind of spelt it out in 1 and 2 .. Either way it means you accepting something about who he is that doesn't perhaps fit in with what you want in someone to be your partner.

 

definitely - i ended things twice very early on because i was wary of him being married, even though he made me feel there was barely a relationship left. I cheated briefly on my husband and couldn't stay with him, the guilt. Then i was treated badly, very badly, and ignored every chance to cheat because i knew that wasn't me, i couldn't do it.

 

one could perhaps that what you;ve stated in your 2 points there is the killer in any affair relationship - he's damned in your eyes if he does and damned if he doesn't.

 

well, not really. In my book he should 'fess up and leave his wife, or end things properly with me.

 

the problem, in my view, is that there was a way out ... The way out for tem is to be honest when they are required to be... If they choose not to be then from that moment on we start to see them in a new , and perhaps not so rosy, light.

 

that happened a few weeks ago. I didn't like the feeling. It was eerie, realising he was potentially a 'cheat' and a 'liar' and not the beautiful person hiding from his relationship problems, which is what i had thought.

 

from where he is now i am guessing that the only way he could re-build himself in your eyes would be to make a conscious decison to leave, set himself up on his own and then show you over an extended period that he really can be trusted.

 

completely, utterly, of course. And will never happen.

 

i realised with my xmw that this meant her getting a divorce entirely under her own steam, then living alone for 6 months to two years, working through her issues and baggage etc and allowing me to see that in this time she was the person she first claimed to be with me.

 

When i asked myself did i think she would be able to do that my answer was, unfortunately no. Her preferred option was to keep her h going until something else came up. At which point i had to face the facts .

 

And the really hard thing, for me is, once you see someone in this light then there really is no reason to speak to them again, ever. For me, the fact she was willing to deliberately use her h meant that she was not the sort of person i would want to be with.

 

exactly. Exactly. It's important to me i respect who i'm with, i want that mutual respect and being proud of someone. I could go with 6 months, 6 months to weigh up the situation, how he felt about her, me, life, work etc etc. And then to honourably decide he belonged with someone else. Rightly or wrongly i could reconcile myself to that. Because i'm a born romantic. Or whatever. But to go on, and say 'i don't want to leave but i still want you'. I can't respect that. That's heartbreaking.

 

i doesnt' make it any easier though, and i sympathise hugely with your waiting for the email etc etc

 

i'm 9 months nc now and there's still difficult patches (her and i were involved on and off for about 12 years and you can't just shut feelings off) .. But i am in a much better place, i am happy with myself, i respect myself again and i know what i did was right.

 

She still has the option of divorcing and making an honest approach for me, but i don't see she ever would and perhaps more than that, i'm at the stage where i am not even sure that i would want her.

 

9 months seems so long. So long. To me, i guess, because i am here at the start. Has there been no contact at all? It's great you feel better. I know i will too. It's just, i thought i would be with him forever and i find it hard to imagine being on my own forever, even though that's not the issue. Not sure i'm making sense...

 

there's a zillion nice, sexy, decent people out there .. So why would i settle for someone who was ok with dropping me when it suited them. What if i got sick ??? Would they drop me again etc etc

 

i want someone who loves, respects and values me, for being me, not as a band-aid for their crap marriage/relationship/life.

 

yes!! And i don't know how i thought i had all that from him. I let myself see him as a victim, both victims together, kept apart, but now he has had to admit it's a choice, it's so different. And his relationship has continued to pick up since he met me. He was morose and introspective and barely engaged with his wife... Okay, okay, that's what i'm told, before everyone shouts :-) but he cheered up, had things to look forward to, we had a lot of humour, and sex. Both of which he missed terribly. And then, to top it all, he had to make the time with his wife count so she wouldn't look so unfavourably on all the nights he was spending away from home because he wanted to keep the peace (a coward who hates confrontation it seems). So she was getting an even better deal (in some ways) due to my being on the scene. So yes, i was definitely a band-aid. God, how sad. I thought we were the love story of the decade. Ha ha ha.

 

you loved yourself enough to believe in love .. That doesn't make you a muppet :-) .... Expecting that love from someone married to somone else ... Well maybe that is muppet territory .:).. But if it is, you're not the only one, so don't beat ourself up about it.

 

i don't want to stop trusting and loving people, but i've made 3 mistakes in a row now... Starting to doubt myself in a big way.

 

muppet's unite !!!!

 

 

Be safe

chris

 

thank you, i am so glad i don't have people beating me up for being some sort of 'tard for believing wholly and massively in this guy.

[Silly_Girl]

Argh! I am so angry. I have been re-reading emails. Not clever.

 

Then one pops in to my inbox. Now he never has time at work to email until the end of the days when most people have gnoe home. He's read my 'I'm out, but you have my email address if you ever want a crack at doing things properly' email.

 

He's replied:

 

[sG], I just want to say I love you, hollow as that probably sounds to you. After reading your email my mind is just a maelstrom of thoughts. Can’t concentrate at all. Can’t collect my thoughts or put them down in writing. Am reacting how I usually do in this situation: going all quiet. But I know you hate the silence so I just wanted to at least send this email. I'll write more xxx

 

So he thinks nothing's changed? He doesn't see. My email said things like:

 

- You said you'd make it up to me but ignored me for a week? Not okay. Disgusting in fact. I won't take that treatment and you knew that full well. I had made it clear.

 

- I won't sign up to an undefined length of time to a guy I care about, yet who I can't even PHONE when I've been in a car crash.

 

- I won't be your mistress, I deserve better and I've given you better.

 

- I hope you and [wife] work things out and find a compromise to suit you both

 

- I won't see you if you're with someone else - and you are. That means you're not with me and I personally can't keep cheating. I need to live with myself and my conscience too; it's not just your morals and dilemmas that matter.

 

- I thought you were a beautiful person but you're not, not to be able to treat me like this and not to be able to treat [wife] like this. I would grow to resent you more and more.

 

- I don't know if I'll find anything to match up to us, but it must be better to be Mr Pretty-Good's EVERYTHING, than Mr Amazing's Every Other Weekend and Occasional Text Message....

 

- I wish you lots of luck.

 

- I can't be your hobby any more.

 

He wants his cake and eat it still, I think. I won't reply.

[Fieldsofgold]

Having recently extracted myself from a "situation," I know how you feel in wanting to talk to him, wanting an explanation, wanting answers, wanting something from him to help you make sense of it, etc. My experience says, "don't do it!" he will use it as an opportunity to bend the facts and manipulate you. As long as you are talking, he has that opportunity. If you are not talking, he can't put his "spin" on things. This is what I have found to be the case for me. No contact really is a blessing. It protects you from that verbal manipulation.

 

Best of luck to you. You are very, very lucky to be shed of this man before it went any further. Stand strong.

[Silly_Girl]

"Verbal manipulation"

 

Does he know he's doing it? Is it intended? Is he not just selfish, ignorant and emotionally retarded?

[Fieldsofgold]

"Verbal manipulation"

 

Does he know he's doing it? Is it intended? Is he not just selfish, ignorant and emotionally retarded?

 

I don't know. I wish I could tell you. I'm not that far along.

 

(I read the first part of your thread last night, posted when I woke up this morning, then rebooted and read the next two pages. So I've been a little out of the loop.)

 

I have to say how amazed I am. This guy sounds so much like my recent ex. Even down to "moving in April" no, wait, "moving the first of June!"

 

I think these people are narcisists (sp.?) or sociopath, or have some sort of personality disorder. IMO.

 

take care, don't beat yourself up. And know that you are not alone.

 

- A. Muppet -

[jthorne]

He's replied:

 

[sG], I just want to say I love you, hollow as that probably sounds to you. After reading your email my mind is just a maelstrom of thoughts. Can’t concentrate at all. Can’t collect my thoughts or put them down in writing. Am reacting how I usually do in this situation: going all quiet. But I know you hate the silence so I just wanted to at least send this email. I'll write more xxx

Boo freakin Hoo!

You know what to do. Don't reply.

[Silly_Girl]

I haven't! And this is so very different for me, so am having a minor proud moment.

Tee hee.

[jthorne]

I haven't! And this is so very different for me, so am having a minor proud moment.

Tee hee.

Good for you! You can see that it's still all about him, right? Nothing in his note said anything about you or your pain, or what he's put you through, or any steps he's taking to leave his M.

[Silly_Girl]

Good for you! You can see that it's still all about him, right? Nothing in his note said anything about you or your pain, or what he's put you through, or any steps he's taking to leave his M.

 

HE'S suffering, HE can't concentrate... This last week was like a living hell for me. Funny how that didn't matter quite so much.

 

And yes, nothing to say 'I've done it, I've moved out, I'm yours'. He has tenancy from yesterday, he could go if he wanted. But he doesn't.

[Fieldsofgold]

WAY TO GO, SG! I will warn you, though, the more you ignore him, the more desperate he may get. Mine is now frantically emailing me multiple times a day, sending e-cards, and making all kinds of promises. He would be gone right now if only he had a place, desperately needs ms to help him find a place (career military, 40 years commanding troops, can't get himself a place to live? Boo-freaking-hoo.)

 

I have definitely noticed the longer I am silent, the more desperate he sounds. BUT, nothing actually changes. I anticipate you may experience this from yours, as well.

 

I am proud of you for seeing it for what it is, proud of you for taking care of yourself. Proud of you for not letting him continue to manipulate or use or betray you further.

 

You deserve soooo much better. You go girl!

[Fight4Me]

You are assuming again that everything he told you is true. I have been on both sides of this issue and trust me - 90% of what he told is not true.

 

 

Pnklady: I don't know, he used to tell me things I didn't want to hear, times she was being affectionate or actually tried to instigate a kiss. Times she opened up to him when she hadn't for a long time. When he wasn't coming to see me because he didn't feel he could miss the mother-in-law visit and she was really unhappy when it was mooted he might. And I saw some texts. I know I got a slant on his life with her, but I don't accept I only know 10%. I also saw texts from his mum to him that mentioned his wife, so I have an understanding on the perception of the relationship from that end too. But yes, I don't have a clear view, without a doubt.

 

I think pnklady is right.

 

He sounds like a major conflict avoider, which I think everyone would be able to agree with. So, I think it's likely that when he met you in chat, painting a picture of a horrible marriage and cheating wife was easy and garnered attention for himself. When you two developed a relationship, not wanting conflict and knowing you wouldn't continue to be involved with him if you knew the reality of things, he kept twisting the truth. Ultimately, he controlled what evidence (texts) you would see that would help keep you convinced. You are too good for him and he knows it.

 

I don't believe that he ever put money down on a place, but he had to make you think he did in order to get you to stay. He's miserable in his sexless marriage with a wife who cheated on him, but is staying even though there are no children and has the perfect timing and opportunity to leave? No, there is way more to this story, and I would remember that when he ends up trying to resume things again with you. He's already making attempts to keep you believing he's the victim here, so I would block his email address and go completely NC for your own sanity.

 

HE'S suffering, HE can't concentrate... This last week was like a living hell for me. Funny how that didn't matter quite so much.

 

And yes, nothing to say 'I've done it, I've moved out, I'm yours'. He has tenancy from yesterday, he could go if he wanted. But he doesn't.

 

I'm really sorry you are going through this pain, but it's good to see you getting angry, as you should. I'm a BS, but that doesn't mean I can't have compassion for those who find themselves in situations such as yours. While avoidable, it does neither of us any good to tell you something you already know. I just hope and pray you find the strength to rid your life of this slimy coward once and for all. You really are too good for this. (((hugs)))

[bittersweet memories]

---delete--

[Silly_Girl]

Thank you for the replies. I am not sure he will keep trying to contact me. He hasn't even emailed me back today like he said he would so I can't see he's that bothered.

 

I am not sure about the lying, I was with him when he got a text (I saw it) to say that wife's ex-lover had been round and fixed the bathroom light, and the name and the tone etc fitted what I would expect. I know they're silly things, the things I am coming up with, and I know he's controlled it, but I peeked at his phone when he was staying with me and had said wife was at her mum's (the only time I peeked), he said wife was cheesed off with mum for x, y, z reasons, sure enough, when I checked his phone it confirmed that. I am not saying he's not a liar, I just can't quite (yet?) assume everything was a lie, and as yet I don't have sufficient reason to take that line. Not saying he isn't an utter *******, mind you.

 

It's like with the place, he told me where it was, then a couple of weeks later said he'd had an email about the sky multi-room and would he be keeping up the previous tenant's subscription and we had a chat about whether freeview or sky was better, etc etc. Things that I just don't see a need to be bringing up because if it's all a lie it's just difficult and complex. I lived with a liar for 8 years, he was good. He was manipulative too, wonderfully so, and I don't see the same traits or recognise behaviour patterns. I think my MM has allowed me to judge more harshly, or played down aspects (still lying in my book) but I am not sure things are so very very different to how he paints it. They aren't on each other's facebook/twitter/LinkedIn accounts (even though they have some mutual friends), they don't text one another when they are apart, they have 2 hours a night where they are both available, in that time they eat, he clears up, she does some work and goes to bed. The text routines were identical and fitted in totally.

 

But you're right, Fight4Me, it doesn't make sense to stay where there are no children etc etc. I know he feels guilt because after a stress-related period of illness she quit her job and started working from home (I can verify she does) and now can't afford the house alone, and she's concerned about that (is what he tells me), and thinks it's unfair that she returned and 'invested' etc. He doesn't dislike her, they co-exist fairly easily, and she's been making loads of effort since he said he was going. Last time we discussed it properly he said the fact things were easier than they had been in a long time made it harder for him to go. Things had been so so so much worse and they'd plodded on.

 

My take on it, I think, is that he doesn't want her to know about me so he can return if we don't work out i.e. as she did. So then he's stuck for reasons to be able to go. No sex for 12 years, why go now? It's been much more tense and traumatic than this, why go now? etc.

 

I do think he's a total coward and I do think he isn't paying me the respect I deserve, and I do think he could leave if he wanted to badly enough. I also think he feels a stigma about splitting (he calls it an 'achievement' they've lasted so long when it's been so difficult), he's got a routine that suits him, she organises him and does the cooking and he has a disability that she is used to living with so it's all comfy and dull and easy.

 

Whenever we've talked about things, anything not just the moving-out thing, he sees problems first, difficulties, potential obstacles. He's not a negative person per se, but if things are left to him he finds it hard to organise etc. And I think this is just too much. His washing, his meals, his tv, his post, his appointments, his everything. I think he's like a child and she's his mum. He has said many times that she's said he wouldn't be able to function without her, in practical terms. And he believes that.

 

I think he's too lazy and cowardly to actually do anything.. well, about anything. I can see him as a d*ck, and an emotional retard, and a selfish useless lump who can't see what's right under his nose, but I find it hard (yet) to see him as a cold con-man who is manipulating me. Maybe that's phase two?!!??

 

He didn't email back (not that I replied to the first one) and I really wanted him to. I chatted to myself the whole way home from work (I know, that sounds mad, but I was in my car, not the bus or train!!) and I was weighing up what might happen if he DID move out, and DID choose me etc etc. And I realise the whole process would be like pulling teeth. I'd have to steer from behind and double-think everything. I'd be worried he's seeing his wife when he's up there Mon-Thurs. It would be a big mess, probably. Any wobble and he'd go quiet, or if he didn't text because he'd fallen asleep I'd be wondering if this was 'it' and he'd changed his mind etc etc. I did 'challenging' before, with my psycho-ex, it was me who fixed us every time, found practical resolutions, had ideas, worked and worked and worked to save the relationship. And today, at work, when I was trying to unravel the problems between me and MM I realised I was doing the same thing and don't want to be doing that for ever.

 

Fair enough, in a stable relationship, when things happen, yes, I'd fight tooth and nail and I am a very determined and tenacious person, but now...? 8 months in and we've ended twice already...? That's hardly a good investment of my time. I've spent about 21 hours at the office these last two working days, and probably achieved about 6 hours of work. Not good. I can't afford to stay that stressed or pre-occupied. Not over something not life-threatening etc. I have enough other things that need attention and sorting.

 

Sorry - still want him to get in touch and have 'fixed' everything. I've more chance of marrying Simon Cowell.