Same ol' same ol'??

[Silly_Girl]

I've just thought of something positive. If he is, as I think, the split-self affair type, that means he'd never have given me up. I was right to give an ultimatum. He was prepared to take me on a golf holiday with dozens of other people, but er... remain married?! This could have gone on for years and years and years. I'm feeling proud I limited it to 8 months.

[silverplanets]

I've just thought of something positive. If he is, as I think, the split-self affair type, that means he'd never have given me up. I was right to give an ultimatum. He was prepared to take me on a golf holiday with dozens of other people, but er... remain married?! This could have gone on for years and years and years. I'm feeling proud I limited it to 8 months.

 

That's the spirit ... good for you :)

 

Yes - you did well to limit it, so a BIG pat on the back.

 

Also .. you've not drifted into being his mummy/therapist/support system ... you said you wanted a relationship and he's not able to deliver .. so you've walked away ...

 

You've stood up for you .... now THAT's worth shouting about :)

[Silly_Girl]

Thank you so much SP. That made me cry!! But it's all good. I have an urge to contact him, to say I 'understand' and work through stuff, blah blah blah. No point. Been there with someone else.

 

There must be someone out there who can meet the majority of my needs without me needing to wipe their nose and think for them.

 

I was so happy before I met MM. And in many ways he made me happy, but my inner self eroded. I used to be happy just to sing in the shower in the morning and sit with a glass of wine and my dog in my garden after dark. Then it became about texts, and love, and wives, and arrangements, and promises, and holidays and all sorts of things. But my inner peace was shattered. I must get that back. God, I am SO PLEASED I found this place.

[Silly_Girl]

The website thing isn't going well. Ha ha ha. I have tracked down online the married man that MM's wife had the affair (when she left MM) with who she still meets for dinner and has over when MM is out. But there's 'nothing between them'.

 

Why do I care...? It's just curiosity. I won't do anything. I won't contact him/them. But now that everything's a total nothingness all of a sudden (as opposed to an amazing future ahead) these stupid things seem to matter. So does the fact he's had some rubbish games of golf in the last 7 days. Never would have bothered looking these things up before.

 

Can't justify it at all. I feel better in myself, but sitting at my desk means my mind just wanders and thoughts form themselves in the back of my mind as I 'work'.

[jj33]

Sadly you got caught in the internet lie. It happens. Often they lie about the fact that they are married and you dont find out until later.

 

The horse is out of the barn on this one but no need to chat with married men if thats not what you want for yourself.

 

Its way too easy on the internet to develop feelings and build a fantasy based on the words on the screen. Yes you met and spent time together so it was different and oddly he was able to spend every other weekend.

 

Im sorry you are hurting but it sounds like he wasnt who he pretended to be or his marriage wasnt what he pretended it was.

[Silly_Girl]

No no, no lie. Actually more facts backing up what he'd told me. He told me the first time we spoke that he was married. His wife met someone and moved out, a couple of years ago, and came back. And I was looking them up. The wife and the wife's lover. For absolutely no good reason whatsoever. And I found him, and her, and they were in this particular society together, and did activities together, it's all there, like MM said.

 

I think his marriage is poor, but not as poor as he allowed me to think. He admitted to me that he didn't always tell me things (except when I asked) because he thought it might be hurtful. I explained that wasn't what I wanted but it took time for him to be confident about that. I remember crying for 2 days solid when my ex-husband and I broke up. I thought of him like a brother, I missed him immediately (we shared a house, but took some space) and I felt so awful for him. He was devastated, and it took a LOT for me to break up a marriage that was 'fine' and 'okay' and not acrimonious and painful. I think I was just much more brave (or stoopid, depends on your views) than my xMM.

[jennie-jennie]

I've just thought of something positive. If he is, as I think, the split-self affair type, that means he'd never have given me up. I was right to give an ultimatum. He was prepared to take me on a golf holiday with dozens of other people, but er... remain married?! This could have gone on for years and years and years. I'm feeling proud I limited it to 8 months.

 

I have apparently been overlooking your thread these past days and am now trying to catch up with your story. I have read the OP and the last two pages so far.

 

You mentioning the split self and an ultimatum caught my eye. I have to read up more on what kind of ultimatum you have given. I just want to say that the MM giving up the OP after an ultimatum is not at all contradictory to a split self. The opposite in fact, because these MM are in a sense relieved when the decision is made for them. They are not capable by their own accord of ending neither the affair nor the marriage, until they have healed their inner split. Yet they suffer from being in limbo, often becoming depressed. Individual counseling is what is needed.

 

That being said it can take years of therapy for these MM to heal their inner split. The question is if you are prepared to be the OW for the time it takes, not even knowing if in the end he will choose you.

[Silly_Girl]

Yes, relief. I sense that he needed/wanted someone else to make that decision. Saying 'I don't know how much longer I can do this for, I'm in pain' etc etc, but then saying 'I can't live without you'. Along with 'I don't think, deep down, I want to leave my marriage'.

 

When we've wobbled before I stopped contact, but it was me that re-started. So when we halted things he was off work ill, really quite ill, heartbroken, but still relieved in a way not to be making the decision or not to be in the position he was in. As soon as I resumed contact he wanted communication back as much as possible. Straight back to how things had been.

 

He said that putting a deposit on the room was 'the biggest decision of his whole life'. That stunned me, I asked about getting married, moving abroad etc. All of that had been what he viewed as 'going with the tide'. This was the first time he'd ever done something against the status quo.

 

I hope he's a jibbering wreck right now

[Silly_Girl]

The question is if you are prepared to be the OW for the time it takes, not even knowing if in the end he will choose you.

 

That's a definite No. No matter how much I'm hurting now, I am aware that I deserve better. I would take him back right this second if he turned up and had moved out, etc, but otherwise, no way.

[jennie-jennie]

Because I'd have bet everything I had on us ending up together, and it seems I'm so far off the mark. And I didn't believe it because of what he TOLD me. It was based on how we were, how we read each other's minds, how we enjoyed even being in the same room as each other, how we made plans, how we laughed together, things we both found moving, everything about us. THAT'S why I believed it and it's why I still can't believe it's disappeared.

 

God, when I think about us now it still seems completely inbelievable that there is no future. Everyone that knew us, saw us together thought we were the perfect couple.

 

Very astute observation. Tells why the OW/OM do believe in the relationship. It is not about truth/lies being told, it is about experience being lived.

[NoIDidn't]

Very astute observation. Tells why the OW/OM do believe in the relationship. It is not about truth/lies being told, it is about experience being lived.

 

 

And, yet, after all that experience SG still said this:

God, when I think about us now it still seems completely inbelievable that there is no future.

 

Which seems to say that regardless of the experiences, there is still no future. Its easy to get caught up in experiences, but one has to think beyond them to the future.

 

I hope SP remembers the part about "no future" as much as she remembers the experiences to keep both in perspective and not end up idealizing the experiences like too many OP do that stay stuck in futureless As for far too long.

[Silly_Girl]

And' date=' yet, after all that [i']experience[/i] SG still said this:

 

 

Which seems to say that regardless of the experiences, there is still no future. Its easy to get caught up in experiences, but one has to think beyond them to the future.

 

I hope SP remembers the part about "no future" as much as she remembers the experiences to keep both in perspective and not end up idealizing the experiences like too many OP do that stay stuck in futureless As for far too long.

 

I'm not sure what you mean. Yes, the experience shouted to me that this was going to go to the distance. I wasn't wrong about that experience, he changed his mind after those times I'm thinking back to.

 

And actually, I'm trying hard not to think of those experiences. I'm trying to remember negative times!!!

[NoIDidn't]

I'm not sure what you mean. Yes, the experience shouted to me that this was going to go to the distance. I wasn't wrong about that experience, he changed his mind after those times I'm thinking back to.

 

And actually, I'm trying hard not to think of those experiences. I'm trying to remember negative times!!!

 

I'm just saying that the experiences are fleeting and often temporary, so to keep that in perspective instead of allowing the experiences to rule your thoughts and cause you to ignore the long-term - the future.

 

I don't think its necessary to purposefully remember the negative times, it has a tendency to make us really angry (which is okay for a season, as it helps us move past things).

 

What I don't get is why he would change his mind after such great experiences? I'm sorry that I haven't read all of this thread, so I have to assume this guy is married and staying married and neglected to be truthful about that. Based on my assumption (and knowing that I could be way off here), I'd say he never changed his mind, but just kept that from you long enough to keep the experiences coming for both of you. These married guys have a tendency of assuming that if we know they are married, then we must be accepting of our position and the things they have to do to stay married with no thought of any pain or inconvenience it causes us.

[Silly_Girl]

The guy's Scottish and paid £400 deposit on a room to be available 1st June. At some point he was definitely intending leaving

[whichwayisup]

The website thing isn't going well. Ha ha ha. I have tracked down online the married man that MM's wife had the affair (when she left MM) with who she still meets for dinner and has over when MM is out. But there's 'nothing between them'.

 

Why do I care...? It's just curiosity. I won't do anything. I won't contact him/them. But now that everything's a total nothingness all of a sudden (as opposed to an amazing future ahead) these stupid things seem to matter. So does the fact he's had some rubbish games of golf in the last 7 days. Never would have bothered looking these things up before.

 

Can't justify it at all. I feel better in myself, but sitting at my desk means my mind just wanders and thoughts form themselves in the back of my mind as I 'work'.

 

It's more than curosity, it's a way for you to "know" and be informed, keep the drama going.

 

If you're over it and it's over with him, turn it off and stop checking up on her (and him).. How can you begin to really heal if you're poking around wondering what is going on in their lives?

[NoIDidn't]

The guy's Scottish and paid £400 deposit on a room to be available 1st June. At some point he was definitely intending leaving

 

 

I'm not judging you or him, just stating what I would do. I wouldn't feel comfortable visiting a guy or being in a R with a guy that only lived in a "room". I've had relatives do this before (living in a rooming house). It was not a good way to live for long. And the thing about the room is that its a monthly deal. He could have always went back home with nothing really ventured - they usually come pre-furnished.

 

Getting a room is too easy, IMO. Signing a lease, leaving a deposit, and moving furniture out of the marital home is a lot more concrete to me.

 

It could be that he was only intending to mislead. Just a thought. Not trying to convince you of anything, I swear.

[jennie-jennie]

And' date=' yet, after all that [i']experience[/i] SG still said this:

 

 

Which seems to say that regardless of the experiences, there is still no future. Its easy to get caught up in experiences, but one has to think beyond them to the future.

 

I hope SP remembers the part about "no future" as much as she remembers the experiences to keep both in perspective and not end up idealizing the experiences like too many OP do that stay stuck in futureless As for far too long.

 

No ongoing affair is futureless.

 

I presume what you mean with "futureless" is as in the WS is not going to leave his spouse anytime in the future. This brings us back to enjoying what you have, not what you hope to get.

 

Those of us in long term affairs see a long future ahead of us with our affair partner as long as we ourselves choose to stay in the relationship.

[Silly_Girl]

No, I'm happy in myself that he was intending to move, whether permanently or not I don't know enough to say. And the room vs flat was because a) he's tight - sorry careful! b) he would have been moving in my direction and renting down here, if all was going well, so he didn't want to invest in a big way up there if he was barely there (what with work, golf, meeting me during the week and visiting me every weekend).

 

But he'd seemed comfortable with leaving. We'd talked about how he'd tell his parents. He'd told his cousin about us. He'd talked about how long he would live there and spend three nights a week with me. Bringing his washing down with him. Planned to do that for 6 months-ish. Loads of stuff we talked about. I totally appreciate what you're saying but in his little heart he was positive, for a time anyway. He'd even agreed with wife about collecting his post and things that would need sorting on house etc. He just bricked it when faced with the actuality of it all. He didn't have the balls. Big mistake on his part, in my view. I think the trip away to Paris - for her birthday probably didn't help matters!!

[NoIDidn't]

No ongoing affair is futureless.

 

I presume what you mean with "futureless" is as in the WS is not going to leave his spouse anytime in the future. This brings us back to enjoying what you have, not what you hope to get.

 

Those of us in long term affairs see a long future ahead of us with our affair partner as long as we ourselves choose to stay in the relationship.

 

 

I mean *futureless* in the manner that the OP meant it. She expected more from the MM, including him leaving his spouse and being with her open and fulltime. And she realized she wasn't going to get it. If she defined her future as simply staying in the affair, then your position would be correct. But that's not what she wanted.

 

We come from different opinions on "what" a person in an affair actually "has", but I see your point of being content in the moment instead of hoping to get something that's not actually promised to you - either by design or by actual ability.

[NoIDidn't]

No, I'm happy in myself that he was intending to move, whether permanently or not I don't know enough to say. And the room vs flat was because a) he's tight - sorry careful! b) he would have been moving in my direction and renting down here, if all was going well, so he didn't want to invest in a big way up there if he was barely there (what with work, golf, meeting me during the week and visiting me every weekend).

 

But he'd seemed comfortable with leaving. We'd talked about how he'd tell his parents. He'd told his cousin about us. He'd talked about how long he would live there and spend three nights a week with me. Bringing his washing down with him. Planned to do that for 6 months-ish. Loads of stuff we talked about. I totally appreciate what you're saying but in his little heart he was positive, for a time anyway. He'd even agreed with wife about collecting his post and things that would need sorting on house etc. He just bricked it when faced with the actuality of it all. He didn't have the balls. Big mistake on his part, in my view. I think the trip away to Paris - for her birthday probably didn't help matters!!

 

Ahhh! I see your point. He didn't have the balls to make such a big change in his life.

 

Better you found this out when you did, than when he's going through with the D and starts blaming you for his discomfort over it all.

 

Like I said, I'm definitely not trying to convince you of anything. I totally understand what you are saying. Some people are just like that. They say it takes smokers 13/14 times to actually quit for good. Maybe that will be the case with him too. But cigarettes don't have hearts and feelings, people do. I'm sure the R would be irreparably damaged if he flip-flopped 13/14 times before finally leaving his M.

[Silly_Girl]

Ahhh! I see your point. He didn't have the balls to make such a big change in his life.

 

Better you found this out when you did, than when he's going through with the D and starts blaming you for his discomfort over it all.

 

Like I said, I'm definitely not trying to convince you of anything. I totally understand what you are saying. Some people are just like that. They say it takes smokers 13/14 times to actually quit for good. Maybe that will be the case with him too. But cigarettes don't have hearts and feelings, people do. I'm sure the R would be irreparably damaged if he flip-flopped 13/14 times before finally leaving his M.

 

You're so right, it was something he said in his email to me. Email, classy huh?! Was that if he was anything less that 100% certain that it was completely and utterly over between him and her, it wouldn't be fair to me and would cause issues up ahead, and he still had some 'small residual' feelings towards his wife. "When" (his word!) he committed to me he wanted to do so fully and properly and us have everything we talked about.

 

It's funny you say about smokers. I decided to give up and gave up second time. Never had even a sniff since. I imagine, were he a smoker, him being the 13-14 time giver-upper. And I'd have strangled the life out of him by that point!!

[Fieldsofgold]

I'm really very sorry for all the pain you've gone through. But I have read every post on this thread, and the more I read, the more confused I become.

 

If you absolutely do not want to be the OW, and you knew he was married when you met him, why did you get into a relationship with him?

 

I'm not asking to be unkind or insensitive, and I hope it doesn't sound that way. I'm just really puzzled.

[Silly_Girl]

No, it's a fair question. I didn't want to meet anyone and was sworn off men due to a horrible relationship. MM and I met online (long story as to why I was there, but my ex had set 'me' up with profiles on lots of sites, pics and all. Not funny but I kind of laugh about it now).

 

I didn't want anything and nor did he. A friendship struck up, which grew and grew.

 

He and his wife had recently begun living together again, whilst ostensibly leading quite separate lives. She had moved back but was 'deeply unhappy' and several times booked conversations about 'the future' and then stated she was too distressed to actually talk. So MM never knew if the old bf was back on the scene, if she was moving out or what. And so, it got to the point where neither did he really care much because his focus was me. Our relationship grew and grew into something huge, for us.

 

She still sees her ex-lover, and whereas that may have irked MM in the past, now it gave him an entirely free evening to be in touch with me!

 

So we had a period where we (MM and I) appeared to exist, and he and his wife did not. They spent one day together at Christmas, he was away for her birthday, spent New Yr with me. They fell into an easy routine of dinner, tv and nothing else. Hindsight helps me a lot with this stuff, to be honest, but we drifted and were keen to explore more how we felt about each other.

 

Which we did. Then I had a big trip coming up and realised that, if we had no future, if he was more attached to his wife than I thought, this trip would be a fantastic way of detaching myself and moving my head to a different place. I wanted us to be together, I believed we had a shot at a really great relationship where it seemed we each pretty much gave the other exactly what we wanted. So I told him he had to choose. And he thought about it, and he chose me. Or so it seemed. So I continued to see him, and feel more and more deeply for him, and he continued to be married because we were working towards something changing in the next couple of months. I could live with that, I just about was able to feel that meeting, falling in love, a strong relationship coming from their break-up (which had mostly already essentially happened, to my mind) could be justified. Rightly or wrongly.

 

With each step he has taken to extricate himself from the marriage, she has clung on that much harder, it seems. He could get no affection from her and now it's given a little more freely. Still adamant there's no sex but apparently he agreed to that term when she came back. She doesn't believe it's fair or right for him to leave her 'at her age'. It's very selfish of him when she came back (she was dumped) and invested for 2 years just for him to change his mind. etc etc. So, combined with the fact MM finds big changes hard and HATES any confrontation, he has found it right for him, easier, whatever, to stay with his wife.

 

I'm still quite sore, so not sure how well I've conveyed that, I hope it answers the question.

[Fieldsofgold]

So it appeared that his marriage was all but over. He let you believe that. Led you to believe that. I think he believed that, too, for a while - until it came time to actually DO something about it.

 

It's a sad, sad situation, and a terrible way to do you.

 

My MM (who has a W and OW and lives with both part time) keeps trying to tell me it's over with them; he's just there as a matter of convenience. I told him it's not over til he moves/divorces, etc. (which I am sure he has no intention of doing.) Now I'm NC with him, and I wouldn't want him if he did move on.

 

I guess the moral of the story is that it isn't over until it's really ALL over.

[Silly_Girl]

So it appeared that his marriage was all but over. He let you believe that. Led you to believe that. I think he believed that, too, for a while - until it came time to actually DO something about it.

 

It's a sad, sad situation, and a terrible way to do you.

 

My MM (who has a W and OW and lives with both part time) keeps trying to tell me it's over with them; he's just there as a matter of convenience. I told him it's not over til he moves/divorces, etc. (which I am sure he has no intention of doing.) Now I'm NC with him, and I wouldn't want him if he did move on.

 

I guess the moral of the story is that it isn't over until it's really ALL over.

 

I think he did believe it FoG. But, if I'm honest to myself, I was already worrying about what came next. When she tried to have contact, get him involved in things to do with their old life (which I was sure she would) etc etc. I was sure we were perfect for each other, but worried about all that stuff; because clearly it posed a threat, and as you say, it isn't over until it's all over.

 

I'm struggling with NC. Spent a lot of hours this weekend composing an email. As it stands I plan to send it tonight. The end of the week. Start afresh tomorrow. I am not sure I can NOT send it. I am not sure my mind will be straight, but I haven't decided. And am happy I've not succumbed so many times when I wanted to.

 

I have made progress in remembering where I was when I met him; how full of life and energy and enthusiasm. The world was my oyster; I was recently free of a difficult relationship and I loved all aspects of life.

 

Whilst I won't play down all the wonderful things I got from my MM, I am trying to remember that the fun-loving girl would pine, and feel frustrated, and miss him at bedtime, and wonder why I hadn't heard, and wish he could be free more or live closer etc etc.

 

I want to go back to singing in the shower, sleeping star-shaped in the bed ('cos I can!), dancing around when making the packed lunches in the morning and seeing the world as my playground again. Waiting got me down; yes, I believe he was worth waiting for over that time, but not any more and not forever.

 

That place, the one you're in, where you wouldn't have him back. That's where I want to be. I think I kidded myself I wanted to be his wife maybe.... Not sure, still working on thinking that one through. Maybe I just wanted what she got from him and his time, but I know that she was unhappy. I know that were he giving me what he gave her, I'd be unhappy too. It wouldn't have been enough.

 

Maybe he could give me 'everything' I wanted because it was part-time. Maybe I'd have had the same issues as her, I suppose I'll never know. If he turned up on my doorstep now I'd be overjoyed, but somewhere at the back of my mind the perspective jigsaw is slowly piecing itself together, just a little more slowly than I'd choose