What next

[Corporate]

WhatNext - I am a specialist in screwing up! ))) To me, what you are doing and showing - is you being a push over. Here is the thing - soup - Good Idea! Going after her - way too much pressure. Come on - be care-free! (You know that I have to be that way!)

 

You love her - but you have to show that you are the boss! Not an a-&&&le, just a decent guy who does have some bad qualities! ))) Nice guys finish last!

 

I would have gotten soup - but ONLY the kind that I also like! Yeah, I got US food, but made it "soup" because you are sick. You wanted to spend time with her? "Hon, watching TV/going for a walk - feel like joining?" Not, "Would you like to watch TV with ME?" We all sound WAY too desperate. We don't want to lose them, but we can't live being treated the way we are.

 

I am Corporate and I approved the above message.

[Steadfast]

 

To me, what you are doing and showing - is you being a push over...

 

 

This is a hard thing...a game within the game. I hate games (especially when I'm forced to go against my nature) but this is deeper. It is all about being confident, being secure and most of all, being strong.

 

I didn't recon with my wife, but there is a fair chance that I could have. I say that because when I made up my mind that she was not worth going out of my way for, her attitude dramatically changed (after the initial tantrum). I don't buy this 'nice guys finish last' crap because nice guys are very much sought after by women. There is however, a huge difference between being a wimp and a nice guy. Case in point; 'nice' guys don't let it get to them; they remain stable and kind, yet in command. Her mood bad? OK...why does it have to be about you? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Her problem. It takes tremendous strength and discipline to be a nice guy.

 

Here's the bottom line; happiness and her general well being is HER responsibility, not yours. Even if you could control her you wouldn't want to. Either she loves you and wants it to work or she doesn't. By being overly (perhaps overly willing is a better way of saying it) helpful or kind during this period reeks of manipulation. She might feel pressure to return it...are you sure that isn't what you're after?

 

You love her. She knows. Like 38 Special says; 'Hold on Loosely'.

[What_Next]

WhyHope and Steadfast thank you for your posts.

 

WhyHope you make some very good points. While I don't agree with them all I do agree with your general viewpoint. I will take that into account.

 

Steadfast I think you are on to something there. Even though I am not sure my actions are showing that I am desperate I am in all likelihood over compensating. For many years I showed almost no compassion or caring and little affection, even though I now realize that it will take time for behavorial changes to set in. You are also right in that her mood on any particular day can have little to do with me. I can only control what I do, not what she does.

 

I am going to continue being understanding, patient, affectionate and compassionate. However, it will NOT be over the top. When my boundaries are pushed I'll say so.

 

We both knew this process would not be easy and be filled with ups and downs; so be it. Let them come and we'll deal with them in kind.

 

Once again the LS community (trolls aside) helps someone make sense of the situation and act accordingly.

[Steadfast]

You're welcome. Remember, men are natural fixers so what you are doing and how you're reacting is normal. But women and relationships are not objects we can control or 'put right' to meet our satisfaction, like a car or a leaky pipe. Done right, we don't change what or who we are, instead, we come to recognize and adjust how we think and approach situations, all the while closely examining our real motivation. It's not easy releasing control, but it is vital if the relationship is to heal and grow. Trust is everything.

 

A very dear friend once told me; "Don't 'do' good, 'be' good." It makes sense.

[What_Next]

You are most definitely correct Steadfast. I must learn to control my reactions to events as they transpire and not read too much into them. I will continue to work on that.

 

We are steadily making progress, but it is slow. I just need to maintain patience throughout.

 

LS does help.

 

I will trying to sleep in our bed with her tonight. We'll see how that goes.

[habs53]

You're welcome. Remember, men are natural fixers so what you are doing and how you're reacting is normal. But women and relationships are not objects we can control or 'put right' to meet our satisfaction, like a car or a leaky pipe. Done right, we don't change what or who we are, instead, we come to recognize and adjust how we think and approach situations, all the while closely examining our real motivation. It's not easy releasing control, but it is vital if the relationship is to heal and grow. Trust is everything.

 

A very dear friend once told me; "Don't 'do' good, 'be' good." It makes sense.

Thats an exellent post, love that phrase. Its very true when appied.

[tojaz]

You are most definitely correct Steadfast. I must learn to control my reactions to events as they transpire and not read too much into them. I will continue to work on that.

 

We are steadily making progress, but it is slow. I just need to maintain patience throughout.

LS does help.

 

I will trying to sleep in our bed with her tonight. We'll see how that goes.

 

Slow and steady is the best way to go W_N. Its not just about repairing the damage, its also about learning so you don't wind up here again. Same as why people don't want cars built on a Friday!!!!! The slower the better (although its hell I'm sure!)

 

TOJAZ

[What_Next]

Tojaz, how I am trying, how I am trying. It is not quite hell anymore, but it seems to be test after test. I honestly have to wonder whether or not some day I am going to decide it just isn't worth it. I hope I won't.

 

I'm trying not to look too far into the future since right now I just don't see us together. That's not something I'll get into today though. For today I'll it as it comes.

 

I have all the fuel I need in our 11 year old child. However, I would be lieing if I said that this has not already drastically effected her. Then again the alternative will have a much more negative impact on her.

[What_Next]

Finally a day without a whole set of hurdles and confusing signals.

 

We had an early start to the day and I dropped my wife off at work. I was cheery and upbeat this morning, despite my usual tendancy to NOT be a morning person .

 

We went back and forth between email and text messaging etc today. Our daughter went to a water park with a friend so we spoke of that. I added some "spice" to the conversations but kept them light.

 

This afternoon we had a nap together, and it was fantastic. She initially didn't want to stating she wasn't tired but I knew better. I took her by the hand and directed her to our room saying she was GOING to lie down.

 

Tonight we had some tasks to take care of and we went out without our daugther, just us. We both laughed and enjoyed our time together. It felt less "forced".

 

I am sure we'll still have MANY bad days and setbacks but every day that passes I am finding it easier to really come to terms with my new outlook and it is actually becoming second nature. She is also starting to get that "look" back from time to time.

 

I've come to realize that the 180, well certain aspects of it can easily be applied after reconciliation. It's not a 1 time thing to do, it can be part of an ongoing relationship.

 

I am looking forward to the upcoming weekend. I plan on doing a romantic, low key Saturday night. It'll be condensed and likely in our bedroom, but I want to do candles, wine, massage oil and a few hours of "us" time. I'm up for suggestions on little tips and tidbits to make it romantic but not over the top.

[spriggig]

I've come to realize that the 180, well certain aspects of it can easily be applied after reconciliation.

 

Thanks for this anecdotal evidence, since learning about the principles of NC and 180, I've suspected that they could be used in this way. Alas, I've yet to have a chance to put the idea into practice for myself.

 

I'd love to hear you expand on any attempts you've made with this and how they worked out.

 

Congrats on the ongoing make-up.

[tojaz]

Tojaz, how I am trying, how I am trying. It is not quite hell anymore, but it seems to be test after test. I honestly have to wonder whether or not some day I am going to decide it just isn't worth it. I hope I won't.

 

I'm trying not to look too far into the future since right now I just don't see us together. That's not something I'll get into today though. For today I'll it as it comes.

 

I have all the fuel I need in our 11 year old child. However, I would be lieing if I said that this has not already drastically effected her. Then again the alternative will have a much more negative impact on her.

 

Finally a day without a whole set of hurdles and confusing signals.

 

We had an early start to the day and I dropped my wife off at work. I was cheery and upbeat this morning, despite my usual tendancy to NOT be a morning person .

 

We went back and forth between email and text messaging etc today. Our daughter went to a water park with a friend so we spoke of that. I added some "spice" to the conversations but kept them light.

 

This afternoon we had a nap together, and it was fantastic. She initially didn't want to stating she wasn't tired but I knew better. I took her by the hand and directed her to our room saying she was GOING to lie down.

 

Tonight we had some tasks to take care of and we went out without our daugther, just us. We both laughed and enjoyed our time together. It felt less "forced".

 

I am sure we'll still have MANY bad days and setbacks but every day that passes I am finding it easier to really come to terms with my new outlook and it is actually becoming second nature. She is also starting to get that "look" back from time to time.

I've come to realize that the 180, well certain aspects of it can easily be applied after reconciliation. It's not a 1 time thing to do, it can be part of an ongoing relationship.

 

I am looking forward to the upcoming weekend. I plan on doing a romantic, low key Saturday night. It'll be condensed and likely in our bedroom, but I want to do candles, wine, massage oil and a few hours of "us" time. I'm up for suggestions on little tips and tidbits to make it romantic but not over the top.

 

Seems the rollercoaster keeps on rolling W_N but it sounds like you keep moving forward even in the times you have doubt. Absolutely Perfect!

 

Be careful with pushing the romance so quickly, while i'm sure you have the urge to move to that level, keep in mind that she may not quite be there yet. If you think shes of like mind, then by all means, but proceed with caution, you may do more harm then good.

 

TOJAZ

[Corporate]

I am looking forward to the upcoming weekend. I plan on doing a romantic, low key Saturday night. It'll be condensed and likely in our bedroom, but I want to do candles, wine, massage oil and a few hours of "us" time. I'm up for suggestions on little tips and tidbits to make it romantic but not over the top.

 

Chocolate.

[What_Next]

Tojaz, you are right on that point. I have been keeping up on the ILY from time to time, showing affection etc. She sometimes responds, but more often that not does not. It's tough and I often feel very negative about it, but I don't let on all that much.

 

I hope with time that will change, in all honesty if it doesn't eventually I'll not continue the behavior. Like I said I am having a hard time visualizing us together in the long term, in fact I am pretty much sure we will not be. She is just too cold and distant.

 

Last night when tucking our child into bed she had a book that she sometimes writes in left on her bed open. I read it (NO it isn't a diary or anything, just a little book she doodles in and draws pictures in) and it was her usual silly things that we sometimes talk about at bedtime, but there were a few pages that hit me like a hammer. She had written things like "Today Mommy and Daddy hate each other", "Now they love each other again", "They don't want to make time for me" and other things that just about sunk me.

 

I talked to her about it and we had an open discussion. I let her know just how much we BOTH love her. I also let her know that her mother and father we going through a tough period and we just don't know what the future will hold. She's a tough kid, but I know how much this has effected her. I'd like to say that this made me want to hold on to our marriage more, but honestly it did not. I am beginning to wonder whether or not in her best interest that we just let it go. I mean if this is doomed anyway, why continue to prolong the eventual outcome?

 

I'm not going to make any rash decisions or even talk this over with my wife at this point. However I do need to make up my mind on the direction I want to go. I am content with things as they are for now, but I am seeing little if any change in my wife and I just have this sinking feeling that we are going to end up right where we started if things contine like they are.

[hopesndreams]

I am beginning to wonder whether or not in her best interest that we just let it go. I mean if this is doomed anyway, why continue to prolong the eventual outcome?

 

I'm not going to make any rash decisions or even talk this over with my wife at this point. However I do need to make up my mind on the direction I want to go. I am content with things as they are for now, but I am seeing little if any change in my wife and I just have this sinking feeling that we are going to end up right where we started if things contine like they are.

 

"Heart, this is your brain talking."

[tojaz]

Tojaz, you are right on that point. I have been keeping up on the ILY from time to time, showing affection etc. She sometimes responds, but more often that not does not. It's tough and I often feel very negative about it, but I don't let on all that much.

 

I hope with time that will change, in all honesty if it doesn't eventually I'll not continue the behavior. Like I said I am having a hard time visualizing us together in the long term, in fact I am pretty much sure we will not be. She is just too cold and distant.

 

Last night when tucking our child into bed she had a book that she sometimes writes in left on her bed open. I read it (NO it isn't a diary or anything, just a little book she doodles in and draws pictures in) and it was her usual silly things that we sometimes talk about at bedtime, but there were a few pages that hit me like a hammer. She had written things like "Today Mommy and Daddy hate each other", "Now they love each other again", "They don't want to make time for me" and other things that just about sunk me.

 

I talked to her about it and we had an open discussion. I let her know just how much we BOTH love her. I also let her know that her mother and father we going through a tough period and we just don't know what the future will hold. She's a tough kid, but I know how much this has effected her. I'd like to say that this made me want to hold on to our marriage more, but honestly it did not. I am beginning to wonder whether or not in her best interest that we just let it go. I mean if this is doomed anyway, why continue to prolong the eventual outcome?

 

I'm not going to make any rash decisions or even talk this over with my wife at this point. However I do need to make up my mind on the direction I want to go. I am content with things as they are for now, but I am seeing little if any change in my wife and I just have this sinking feeling that we are going to end up right where we started if things contine like they are.

 

You don't get to set the pace W_N, and fear of failure is never a good reason to give up, if you want to know why, read my sig at the bottom of every post! Its true. If you wanted to go in any direction then the one your going in, you probably wouldn't be here.

 

TOJAZ

[tojaz]

Ok, almost every post.

 

Fear and worry are temporary, but regret lasts forever. Succeed, fail, love, loss. Thats life. Live it to the fullest so you can live without regret. "What if" can't haunt you if you gave it your all. -TOJAZ

 

I fought the good fight W_N and I'll be honest, I lost, I made mistakes, but I never gave up on her and I went down swinging. For me thats the only way i could have lived with myself.

 

Its up to you to decide what direction you want to go, but make that decision for you, not to make it easier and not for anyone else. If you can look in the mirror and say "I don't want to be married to her anymore" then do what you have to do, if not, then keep doing what your doing, because as slow as it is, you are doing well.

 

TOJAZ

[Corporate]

She's a tough kid, but I know how much this has effected her.

 

Give her chocolate. That helps too.

[What_Next]

Tojaz, as always you are my rosetta stone.. You help me make sense out of it. I have to fully admit last night and today were VERY hard. I kept thinking of our child and what WE (yes WE) have done to her. In some ways I wished that the day my wife told me she wanted out that we both could have sat down, said our goodbyes and started the process of seperation.

 

Would that have been any easier on our 11 year old? Likely not. Well maybe initially, but in the long run probably not. As much as I'd like to say I will make the decision for me alone Tojaz, I cannot. My child is my number 1 priority, EVERYTHING else comes second. That includes my marriage right now. Reading what I read shook me to my core.

 

Now I have learned a tonne in the past 2 months and as a result I didn't fly off the handle and make things much worse. I largely kept it to myself. Tonight I went to our trailer and spent a few hours by myself to sort out my feelings. That helped. I will help our child work through this and do so by open communication with her. I will also ensure that "discussions" between my wife and I happen out of the range of our child.

 

I wish I could post and say that I am 100% devoted and ready to give it my all. Well I am not. I'm not saying I don't want to work on it, but I am saying that I will be much more leery of the impact it is having on our child. For now I have learned another lesson and that is to try even harder to minimize the impact this is having on our daughter and in the meantime have even more patience with my wife; at least for the time being.

 

Corporate, it would be rude of me not to at least comment on your post as you seem insistent on getting involved in discussions above your maturity level. My daughter does not really have a sweet tooth and even if she did, giving her "chocolate" would not help. Maybe many years from now when you eventually grow up, get a wife and have a child you could understand how serious this situation is. Maybe then you might understand why a silly attempt at humour is such an immature reaction to have. Nuff said.

[What_Next]

Well here we go again. Something was NOT feeling right tonight. My wife was drinking a little "too" much tonight. So when I was putting our daughter to bed her phone was out in the open. She has been keeping it locked up tighter than a bank vault for the past few months. We all know where this is going right?

 

If you read back in this thread you will see the weekend she took MY truck and claimed to go to a friends. Well, when I mapped the km my truck had been driven (yes I monitored it) it did NOT add up. Then a few weeks ago I found a phone number on the back of a book she had. It was a Michigan number that did not accept incoming calls. Funny that the town it reversed to was almost exactly the same amount of km away from our place that my truck had been driven. Also I KNOW she took her passport on the weekend she went away.

 

I got into her cell phone with her "code" that she thought I didn't know. There it was. About 8 calls tonight alone from a phone number with the SAME AREA code as the one I found a few weeks ago, but a different number. There was even a voicemail but I couldn't get into it. I call the number and a man answered. When I questioned who it was he got snippy and stated "You called me I don't have to tell you who i am". I answered with the fact that this number was my WIFE'S number and if he called it again he'd have to dial with the stump leftover when I ripped his arm off. I hung up.

 

I then confronted her with the number. She went into denial right away. Stating it was a friend. Stating it was nothing. She then went to bed and said that she was drunk and nothing she said was making any sense. She did say we were done again, there was no trust, blah blah blah. Good *****ing reason right?

 

Our child is not feeling well (largely brought on by this event I am sure). So we have been both up and down trying to settle her.

 

So I pretty much knew there was a EA all along, and almost expected a PA. This is about all the evidence I need.

 

I've had it. I'm spent. Am I overreacting? Funny after me calling "him" on her cell phone she's left it on the table right out in the open. I could go up and take it right now. For almost 3 months it's been guarded like a museum piece.

 

Tojaz, Gunny, anyone....

[wrencn]

No you aren't overreacting! She is dead wrong! I'm sorry this has happened to you. I'm dealing with the the same situation right now, but I've been given a glimmer of hope because my husbands EA is back in love with her ex boyfriend.

 

This isn't fair to you darling. Drop her -even if you want to work on it later- show her nothing but strength and a big solid F*** You. Drop her and let her come begging you for a second chance. I'm just fed up with cheaters at the moment so my advice may not be the best. I'm really upset that people can just treat their marriages like they are nothing important.

 

Hang in there, you are not alone!!!!!!

[What_Next]

I definitely am not alone. Thank god I realized that quite some time ago and brought my mother and my brother closer to me. I am so thankful for that. I actually dropped a note under my mother's bedroom door tonight asking her to talk to me in the morning (well of course when I wake up)...

 

I'm done with her at this point. I've hit my breaking point. She can conjure up all the LIES she wants, it's just that. LIES.

 

I've had it.

[wrencn]

Good for you dear! No need to be a doormat for her! Wow, all that talk about working it out! I'm mad as heck for you. She's going to regret this one day, she really will. I'm glad you have your mom there for support. I'm all alone in this state but I am making friends to help me through this tough time. It is sad when strangers treat you better than your own spouse though!

[habs53]

I definitely am not alone. Thank god I realized that quite some time ago and brought my mother and my brother closer to me. I am so thankful for that. I actually dropped a note under my mother's bedroom door tonight asking her to talk to me in the morning (well of course when I wake up)...

 

I'm done with her at this point. I've hit my breaking point. She can conjure up all the LIES she wants, it's just that. LIES.

 

I've had it.

I became closer to my parents when all my mess started. They were very glad i came to them.

[What_Next]

When she woke this morning I demanded she tell me what was going on. She did her usual distant, cold thing. I told her that no more, enough is enough. I've had it. Well we eventually argued and it got quite heated. I am ashamed to say it continued in front of our daughter. I basically let loose and said what was on my mind. She did the same. It REALLY upset our daughter. My mother was also present.

 

We eventually got our wits about us and we had to take our daughter to a clinic for a small infection she had. When we came home my wife retreated to the bathroom for quite a while where she cried.

 

When she came out we went into our room and talked. She claimed she was upset about her family which is a trainwreck. I supported her when she needed it. No matter what she does/have done to me when she needs family support I'll give it.

 

Anyway we go around to us and she basically said I could ask what I wanted. As much as it was my chance I resisted. She told me yes there have been a few EA, although NEVER anything physical. I am as much to blame for that as she is since I never came close to meeting her emotional needs, that's on me. We went back and forth etc going nowhere really. She said she wanted to continue the day. I told her NO, period NO. A decision needed to be made. Her usual answer, "I don't know". Well I told her we would continue the day but tonight we needed to talk and get this decision made. Either we start fresh, we BOTH set out our expectations and needs or we split. Honestly, at this point I'd rather split. I'm out of energy for it.

 

As for my mother, well she made things worse and as she ALWAYS has in my life when I needed her, she turned away. She said she is moving out since she cannot handle this anymore. Good riddance. As much as it pains me to say it, I don't want her in my life anymore.

 

Enough of this stringing me along, she either dives in with both feet to try and work on this, or we DO NOT. Period. Enough games, enough fighting, enough coasting.

[imagine]

 

When she came out we went into our room and talked. She claimed she was upset about her family which is a trainwreck. I supported her when she needed it. No matter what she does/have done to me when she needs family support I'll give it.

This is woman talk: read between the lines.

 

Anyway we go around to us and she basically said I could ask what I wanted. As much as it was my chance I resisted. She told me yes there have been a few EA, although NEVER anything physical. I am as much to blame for that as she is since I never came close to meeting her emotional needs, that's on me.

What are you going to do about this?

( I already pointed you to marriage builders.com articles)

 

As for my mother, well she made things worse and as she ALWAYS has in my life when I needed her, she turned away. She said she is moving out since she cannot handle this anymore. Good riddance. As much as it pains me to say it, I don't want her in my life anymore.

This is not your mom's marriage, it's yours. She is wise to stay out of the action.

 

 

Time for you to pull your finger out the plug!