What next

[hopesndreams]

Hopesndreams, there's a nice positive post....

 

She's always been somewhat negative. If she is bailing, then so be it. I'm ready for that should it happen. There's little I can do to prevent that should she decide to go that route.

 

Sorry, but I haven't seen much on the positive side this whole thread. People reading want to see a favorable outcome and are rooting for ya.

 

I'm rooting for you too, but in a different way.

 

You are still playing ostrich. It isn't pretty.

 

It's all just a matter of time.

[2sunny]

if she's unwilling to communicate effectively then there's nothing to work on.

 

a M does take a ton of communication - especially when a breakdown has occurred. if she's not willing to change and willing to participate in healthy life skills for the survival of the M - then there is nothing to work towards.

 

at times, a spouse is intentionally quiet because they have too much they don't intend for you to know - or they have no intention of being the one to make the effort, they only want you to be the one to bend to their demands by you making all the effort.

 

there's no point in continuing until you sit her down, look directly into her eyes and ask her what she's willing to do to make the M work and exactly how she intends to participate. be specific. she had better have a million ideas that show her action or this will ever survive hardship.

[What_Next]

You are still playing ostrich. It isn't pretty.

 

It's all just a matter of time.

 

Well you have your opinion and you are entitled to it, but you are very wrong. I am well aware of what is going on around me. I have come to terms with the fact that we are just as likely to seperate as we are to completely reconcile.

 

The bottom line is for many financial reasons we cannot seperate and neither of us want that right now anyway. Besides, I am focusing on repairing the emotional scars to our child right now.

 

You may think it is just a matter of time, but I highly doubt your ability to see into the future.

 

2sunny you make very valid points and we are beginning to go down that road, but it won't happen in a confrontational method as you suggest, we've both had enough conflict for now.

 

LS is chock full of people that have been jilted, cheated on, left and so on and is sometimes a breeding ground for negativity. I do appreciate the posts, but saying I have my head in the sand and the outcome is already determined is far from the case. It might have happened in both of your cases, but that doesn't mean it will for every marriage.

[hopesndreams]

The hope monster lives.

 

Who better to get advice off of eh? Those that are happily married aren't here. They are spending quality time with their significant other.

[wrencn]

Just to add my .02. My husband is a horrible communicator. I mean the worse. My therapist says its because he didn't have his mother around (who knows). I've also given up all hope of him ever being able to communicate on a decent level. That's just him. I think the same is true for W_N's wife.

[wrencn]

That came out wrong. What I'm saying is, she is who she is. If she's always been a poor communicator you can't expect her to change too much. I mean she can improve but she's never going to be great at it. We have to learn to accept certain things about our spouses or find someone else who is already the way we need them to be. Trying to change an adult is futile.

[trippi1432]

What_Next - Ultimately, it is up to you and your wife....how you both handle the situation and how you both learn and live through the gaps in any relationship. There are many who might think that hope is gone...it only IS gone when you BOTH decide it is...you are trying to work through it all.

 

Basically, misery loves company....I, for one, don't want you visiting...got it?

[trippi1432]

That came out wrong. What I'm saying is, she is who she is. If she's always been a poor communicator you can't expect her to change too much. I mean she can improve but she's never going to be great at it. We have to learn to accept certain things about our spouses or find someone else who is already the way we need them to be. Trying to change an adult is futile.

 

Wrencn - I've been here since you joined LS.....the above bolded text DOES NOT happen unless you are Cinderella. No, you can't change a person...that is true....but you can "re-discover" each other even after years of being married. It's all those years of comfort that we get lost in and then think that something is missing...something is unfulfilled....that's when we decide to give up.

 

At Divorce Care, they will tell you that it is possible for one person to turn a relationship/marriage around...they just have to want to....on the other hand, it takes one to break it by giving up. Ultimately, it takes two to make it a relationship/marriage and make it successful. Let's give WN the benefit of the doubt and support him in his endeavors please.

[spriggig]

...There are many who might think that hope is gone...it only IS gone when you BOTH decide it is...

 

Unrequited love sucks.

 

As of today, I've saved the money needed for the divorce. There is nothing stopping it now. I can see from What_Next's thread and his generous sharing of his journey that the work required to reconcile my own marriage is insurmountable for my wife and probably for me too.

 

My wife gave up hope two and a half years ago when she decided to seek out an affair. I still maintain hope against all odds and the certain knowledge that it is a fools errand.

 

There is no happy ending in store for us, so I root for What_Next and await his updates everyday.

[wrencn]

Wrencn - I've been here since you joined LS.....the above bolded text DOES NOT happen unless you are Cinderella. No, you can't change a person...that is true....but you can "re-discover" each other even after years of being married. It's all those years of comfort that we get lost in and then think that something is missing...something is unfulfilled....that's when we decide to give up.

 

At Divorce Care, they will tell you that it is possible for one person to turn a relationship/marriage around...they just have to want to....on the other hand, it takes one to break it by giving up. Ultimately, it takes two to make it a relationship/marriage and make it successful. Let's give WN the benefit of the doubt and support him in his endeavors please.

 

I know you can't find someone who is going to have every trait you want but you can find someone who has the most important ones. Like for me my top priority is someone who can communicate and be able to fix things around the house. I don't believe for one second my husband chose to not be what I needed for 11 years, I just truly don't think he is ever going to be a great communicator, like I'm never going to be an extrovert or a bubbly happy person. I work hard everyday to be better and I've made great improvements but I accept my limits.

 

Also I'm not downing What_Next's reconciliation efforts. I don't think what I'm saying is coming over the right way. I'm saying his wife is who she is, expecting her to become great a communication may not happen, he may just need to pick his battles and accept her for who she is or let her go. Ugh, nevermind- my tone is obviously being misinterpreted.

 

What_Next, I believe you know that I am behind your efforts to fix your marriage. I don't want anyone to be divorced.

[spriggig]

At Divorce Care, they will tell you that it is possible for one person to turn a relationship/marriage around...they just have to want to

I'm saying his wife is who she is, expecting her to become great a communication may not happen, he may just need to pick his battles and accept her for who she is

I think you two are saying the same thing here. It might work well in some cases that one spouse carries considerably more of the weight to make the marriage work. It's not 50/50 in this regard, but if it's acceptable to both, then so be it.

[trippi1432]

I know you can't find someone who is going to have every trait you want but you can find someone who has the most important ones. Like for me my top priority is someone who can communicate and be able to fix things around the house. I work hard everyday to be better and I've made great improvements but I accept my limits.

 

This is true, but the person you picked in the first place may be the one you are overlooking.

 

Also I'm not downing What_Next's reconciliation efforts. I don't think what I'm saying is coming over the right way. I'm saying his wife is who she is, expecting her to become great a communication may not happen, he may just need to pick his battles and accept her for who she is or let her go. Ugh, nevermind- my tone is obviously being misinterpreted.

No wrencn, your tone if perfect here...and you are absolutely right in this opinion. Good advice here. The thing is acceptance goes both ways...it's called tolerance.

 

What_Next, I believe you know that I am behind your efforts to fix your marriage. I don't want anyone to be divorced.

 

Thank you Wrencn for supporting WN.

[trippi1432]

I think you two are saying the same thing here. It might work well in some cases that one spouse carries considerably more of the weight to make the marriage work. It's not 50/50 in this regard, but if it's acceptable to both, then so be it.

 

Your are right Sprigg, we are basically saying the same thing. No marriage is ever 50/50.....one gives while the other takes, the other takes while one gives....that's par for the course. When it all becomes one-sided or someone stops caring, that when rubber meets the road.

[Corporate]

 

You are still playing ostrich. It isn't pretty.

 

 

I know, right! He didn't even persist that his wife answer the question of whether or not she slept with OM, let along doing the investigation himself.

[wrencn]

This is true, but the person you picked in the first place may be the one you are overlooking.

 

I think you mean in general and yes I do agree with you.

 

However for my situation- he walked out on me so there is nothing else I can do other than learn from our marriage and keep it moving

[trippi1432]

I think you mean in general and yes I do agree with you.

 

However for my situation- he walked out on me so there is nothing else I can do other than learn from our marriage and keep it moving

 

Wrencn - that is what we are all here for....learning and coping.

[What_Next]

Tsk Tsk Corporate, do I have to tell you again? Please let the adults talk and go back to the childrens table please. Nuff said. Until you tell your story I've NO (ZERO, NADDA) desire to listen to your tripe, go AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Hopesndreams, with all due respect I've read many of your posts and you rarely have anything positive to say and I can imagine why you feel that way. I do respect what you are saying to me though and I listen to it. Please do not feel as though I am attacking you. What you are saying needs to be said and I hear it, but that does not mean I am destined to follow the same path as your marriage has.

 

wrencn, I do enjoy reading your contributions to LS. You have an amazing ability to tell it like it is. Yes you do understand what I am saying to a certain degree, she won't change overnight. In fact she might not change ever. Does that mean D? Not necessarily so. Bottom line, for me you are a sweetheart, my PM is open to you anytime.

 

Trippi, what a nice thing to say for me to not post here regarding this anymore. I so understand where you are coming from. In fact it would be easy for me to walk away from LS and not look back. Honestly, I WILL NOT. Why? My story needs to be told. OUR stories need to be told. Those who reconcile and those who divorce.

 

Spriggig, I also agree with your comment, who says any given marriage has to be 50/50 in terms of communication? My wife has never ever been the most communicative type, it's not bothered me all that much. Sometimes when it does I speak up and she responds.

 

For now I will go upstairs and continue to "reconcile"

[trippi1432]

Trippi, what a nice thing to say for me to not post here regarding this anymore. I so understand where you are coming from. In fact it would be easy for me to walk away from LS and not look back. Honestly, I WILL NOT. Why? My story needs to be told. OUR stories need to be told. Those who reconcile and those who divorce.

 

For now I will go upstairs and continue to "reconcile"

 

Well stated.

[tojaz]

W_N, on communication, she is communicating, just not in the way you would like. Some people are subtle, some people hit you upside the head with a 2X4. You cant change that, nor is it fair to expect that. Learning to be married again, learning to communicate again means asking questions BEFORE YOU GET ANNOYED! IN your mind your not seeing any initiative, and her mind her attempts are being ignored. Both are right, because each are missing the signals. So if you don't know what "are you coming to bed" means when she says it ask! and let her know that every once in awhile she may have to break out the 2X4! Now go up stairs and get back to reconciling!

 

TOJAZ

[What_Next]

Tojaz, you are quite right. I know I can always count on your to tell it like it is and check the bitterness at the door. That's a fantastic quality.

 

We did enough "reconciling" last night to make it hard to stand today

 

My wife has always been a weak communicator and she rarely carries a conversation I've just learned to read between the lines and sometimes she can say a lot by not saying anything at all. Sort of the strong silent type. Normally that works, but now the slightest mis-communication can easily get blown out of proportion. We're both learning as we go.

 

This morning was a perfect example whereby my tone when I was speaking to her was upsetting her. I wasn't trying to, I didn't even think of it. Normally that would have upset her, she'd have said little and then she would have jabbed at me throughout the day. However, she let me know right then and there that the way I was talking to her was pi__ing her off. I immeadiately stopped, apologized and we moved on. Sure not earth shattering, but for our marriage is a QUANTUM leap forward.

 

We are leaving in the morning for a vacation which we both are looking forward to. We'll see where we stand when we come back. I'm trying not to look too far into the future right now.

 

Cheers everyone.

[spriggig]

... So if you don't know what "are you coming to bed" means when she says it ask!

TOJAZ

 

Yes, but...he probably thought he knew what "are you coming to bed" meant when she said it. It wasn't until later that he figured out what she REALLY meant. There was no reason in his mind to ask when she said it.

[tojaz]

Tojaz, you are quite right. I know I can always count on your to tell it like it is and check the bitterness at the door. That's a fantastic quality.

Not so much a quality as a lesson learned the hard way. Just like I told you in the beginning, its all about helping you succeed where I can see now that I had failed.

 

 

We did enough "reconciling" last night to make it hard to stand today

Sure! Rub it in for those of us not getting any!:eek:

 

 

My wife has always been a weak communicator and she rarely carries a conversation I've just learned to read between the lines and sometimes she can say a lot by not saying anything at all. Sort of the strong silent type. Normally that works, but now the slightest mis-communication can easily get blown out of proportion. We're both learning as we go.

 

This morning was a perfect example whereby my tone when I was speaking to her was upsetting her. I wasn't trying to, I didn't even think of it. Normally that would have upset her, she'd have said little and then she would have jabbed at me throughout the day. However, she let me know right then and there that the way I was talking to her was pi__ing her off. I immeadiately stopped, apologized and we moved on. Sure not earth shattering, but for our marriage is a QUANTUM leap forward.

 

You got it my friend! Its all about her individual sensitivities... and yours, and understanding that you might not always see them. During my D my ex could get upset over some of the silliest things, such as the way I sat when i spoke to her for example. I should say it seemed silly in the moment, but here on the other side, I can see that it meant a lot to her and should not have been dismissed, just as there were many things that she did that hurt me and I somehow expected her to understand. We both were unknowingly doing damage to eachother and neither of us realized the impact these "small" things were having on the other. Because A. we weren't lookin, and B. we weren't sharing those things. I can play it back word for word and kick myself for all the opportunities i missed to better communicate with her.

 

 

We are leaving in the morning for a vacation which we both are looking forward to. We'll see where we stand when we come back. I'm trying not to look too far into the future right now.

 

Cheers everyone.

 

Looking to far in the future just makes you miss whats happening today W_N. Enjoy your vacation!!!!!!!

 

TOJAZ

[trippi1432]

My wife has always been a weak communicator and she rarely carries a conversation I've just learned to read between the lines and sometimes she can say a lot by not saying anything at all. Sort of the strong silent type. Normally that works, but now the slightest mis-communication can easily get blown out of proportion. We're both learning as we go.

 

This morning was a perfect example whereby my tone when I was speaking to her was upsetting her. I wasn't trying to, I didn't even think of it. Normally that would have upset her, she'd have said little and then she would have jabbed at me throughout the day. However, she let me know right then and there that the way I was talking to her was pi__ing her off. I immeadiately stopped, apologized and we moved on. Sure not earth shattering, but for our marriage is a QUANTUM leap forward.

 

Not so much a quality as a lesson learned the hard way. Just like I told you in the beginning, its all about helping you succeed where I can see now that I had failed.

 

You got it my friend! Its all about her individual sensitivities... and yours, and understanding that you might not always see them. During my D my ex could get upset over some of the silliest things, such as the way I sat when i spoke to her for example. I should say it seemed silly in the moment, but here on the other side, I can see that it meant a lot to her and should not have been dismissed, just as there were many things that she did that hurt me and I somehow expected her to understand. We both were unknowingly doing damage to eachother and neither of us realized the impact these "small" things were having on the other. Because A. we weren't lookin, and B. we weren't sharing those things. I can play it back word for word and kick myself for all the opportunities i missed to better communicate with her. TOJAZ

 

This is great feedback and examples of communication, even if this awareness is coming after the fact.

 

What_Next - it's great that your wife is telling you how she wants you to communicate with her. Perhaps not the same scenario, but my ex talked horribly to me for over a decade...just his tone of voice alone was disrespectful....that alone was the cause of many arguments. I could tell him over and over again that this bothered me, we went for counseling many times for our relationship issues and for our children....but this was something we could never get right.

 

I find it very refreshing as a woman that there are men out there who do care about the topic of communication and want to understand it. How you communicate with your wife is entirely different than how you communicate with a child, a co-worker, a friend or other family members. I do like Tojaz's theory to ask if you aren't sure what she means....could save on a lot of silly arguments that aren't worth the cost in the long run.

 

Have a great vacation What_Next....the progress you and your wife are making is wonderful!!

[tojaz]

Yes, but...he probably thought he knew what "are you coming to bed" meant when she said it. It wasn't until later that he figured out what she REALLY meant. There was no reason in his mind to ask when she said it.

 

Hence the second half.

 

So if you don't know what "are you coming to bed" means when she says it ask! and let her know that every once in awhile she may have to break out the 2X4!

[Chinook]

W_N, on the subject of communication, in a lot of your posts about your wife, I recognise myself. I wouldn't say I'm not a strong communicator, I am. I just need to know how to be needed. Mr C needs to tell me what he needs. When he does that, we have no problems at all. When he doesn't there is confusion and everything ends up upsidedown! In the past we have joked that I have a male communication gene and he has the female one. As long as he tells me what he needs from me, it's fine. I try to go out of my way to make sure he knows how I feel about him. Maybe you need to just directly tell her (continuously) what you need - to do that though, you have to trust that she will follow through and that you won't be rejected. Hard to do in your situation I know.

 

Enjoy your vacation