What next

[guthe]

W-N, thanks for directing me to your thread. Does your wife cry everytime you bring up marital issues as she remembers shortcomings from 6 years ago? I told her no more rugs, or closets (which is where she said she kept her hurt for years). The crying has not seemed to diminish her pain, so I'm leaving her alone for now. Our friends are considering an intervention with my wife. Anybody have thougths on how these work, especially when an emotional affair may be involved.

[BetweenHere&There]

BetweeHere&There if you read enough on LS you will see that it is most often one spouse trying to save the marriage, rather than both at the same time. In my case and if you have the time (this thread is certainly a LONG read) to read my story you can see that most of the time it was a case of one or the other of us working on the marriage at any particular time. In a way a game of martial chicken.

 

I have taken the route of becoming a better partner and husband in as many ways as I can identify, not only for my wife, but for my daugther, the people around me and if this marriage does not work out my next partner. If my current marriage does not survive, I have no intentions of becoming bitter and angry about it. We will not become enemies, we will not tear each other apart.

 

Communication is our first hurdle to overcome and that is happening slowly, respect, compassion, trust etc will all have to come in time. To my mind this is not necessarily "fixing" the old marriage but in a way it is building a new one.

 

Hi WN - actually been around for a while and I have read your thread since you started it...you have come far which is an inspiration. "Marital Chicken" maybe...I see it as give and take....but you are both working on being on the same page. Patience is something that I have noted the most in your thread....

[What_Next]

Hopesndreams, I apologize if I appeared to have attacked you, that was not my intent. From reading many of your posts I have formed an opinion of you, yes I admit to that. In either case though I have listened to what you have offered. No right now I am NOT looking that far down the road, I am in the here and now for now. One of my primary concerns is our child and for now, just for now I WILL NOT have any more fighting. Please continue to contribute, I do read your posts.

 

guthe, no my wife does not cry very much at all. She did break down a few times throughout this. However, that is in her nature. She was never really an emotional person. As for an EA, well until it is completely exposed it won't stop, I can tell you that, boy can I tell you that.

 

BetweenHere&There I appreciate your comment regarding it being an inspiration. As things progressed I wanted to continue to tell my story, there are so few positive outcomes on LS. Not to say we are there yet, we aren't by a long shot.

[habs53]

Hopesndreams, I apologize if I appeared to have attacked you, that was not my intent. From reading many of your posts I have formed an opinion of you, yes I admit to that. In either case though I have listened to what you have offered. No right now I am NOT looking that far down the road, I am in the here and now for now. One of my primary concerns is our child and for now, just for now I WILL NOT have any more fighting. Please continue to contribute, I do read your posts.

 

guthe, no my wife does not cry very much at all. She did break down a few times throughout this. However, that is in her nature. She was never really an emotional person. As for an EA, well until it is completely exposed it won't stop, I can tell you that, boy can I tell you that.

 

BetweenHere&There I appreciate your comment regarding it being an inspiration. As things progressed I wanted to continue to tell my story, there are so few positive outcomes on LS. Not to say we are there yet, we aren't by a long shot.

 

I find more success stories for real outside of this forum. Kinda odd.

[What_Next]

Since reading some of the replies yesterday I've been soul searching a little. I tried to come to terms why I have been telling myself we only likely have a 50/50 chance. Further I have asked myself (as was asked of me in this thread) a 50/50 chance of "what".

 

Last night was an atypical night it seems. Since returning from our vacation we have not really spoken all that much, we are both going in different directions work wise. She is very busy as am I. However, we had been at least trying to call each other during the day to talk etc. That has completely stopped. Now that is easily attributable to our work schedules but I know I could easily give her a call if I wanted to. However, the more I think on it the more I realize I don't want to.

 

I'm tired of being the one who is initiating lately, I am tired of the one who is bearing most of the load. I suppose I am just tired. For now I am going back to a 180 style of behavior. I can't help feeling bitter and even angry about what we went through. Sure I had a LARGE part to play in what happened, but so did she.

 

Even though I initially argued with hopesndreams about the fact that our communication "stinks", I tend to agree in hindsight.

 

I'm not about to do anything rash, but I am going to just re-focus on me, I had stopped bike riding and walking, but I am going to start again. I will also continue to focus on our daughter. What she choses to do is up to her at this point.

 

When all was said and done if we had of chosen D back in the beginning I am willing to bet it would be almost done by now

[tank]

What_next, I am totally not in the same situation your in, but i have read your post twice now, and i have to compliment you on your handling of this situation. You are a strong individual. After reading your last post, i hope you have thought about the situation. A marriage is a constant give and take, you have had so many challenges along the way that you have over come. Things will never be 50/50 in a marriage, at some stages you will have to be 90 and her 10, at other stages the roles will be reversed. Could yo possible just be at a low point in this roller coaster ride. I very much hope so, i hope you realize rightnow you do have to start all the contact and keep the ball rolling. Your wife could just be seeing if you have infact made long term changes in your life and that it wasnt just a quick fix to keep her at home. I hope you find what is right for you. I take your storey that there is hope for guys like me who have hit a brick wall time and time again. Stay strong and i truley hope you find the answers that best suit your needs and desires.

[hopesndreams]

For now I am going back to a 180 style of behavior.

 

Good plan. You need a rest. Be consistent with it though and it might draw her closer to you and make her wonder about you. Changes won't happen overnight, it could take months. Keep eyes and ears open at all times. It's going to have to be her turn to do some heavy lifting. If she shows no signs of doing that, the 180 will give you the strength to live life without her if need be. It gives you a feeling of power and not hopelessness and will help rebuild your self-esteem.

 

Never lose yourself in the M. Enjoy your bike ride.

[What_Next]

Hopesndreams, thank you for your words of encouragement, I do appreciate it.

 

We went the entire day without speaking or interacting at all. Tonight when I came home from work I did not speak to her. We went about our own thing. I wasn't mean or rude or anything, I just tried to not be in the same room as her. I then went to have a beer with my brother, it was very nice to spend some time with him.

 

When I came home I got to spend a few hours with our daughter, we laughed, played and had some fun, it was FANTASTIC!!!!! I completely forgot about all this B/S and just enjoyed my child. Wow, what a moment of clarity for me. I blocked it all out and just totally dedicated myself to her in that moment, and you know what; it was easy.

 

She noticed my new facial hair (I wanted a change in my appearance), and the new cologone I bought today.

 

I didn't get my bike ride in but I did get a short but enjoyable walk in right after dinner.

 

Tomorrow I am doing the same thing as I did today, but I will ensure I get my bike ride in. This "rest" is nice. I am going to sleep downstairs tonight as well.

[tojaz]

Since reading some of the replies yesterday I've been soul searching a little. I tried to come to terms why I have been telling myself we only likely have a 50/50 chance. Further I have asked myself (as was asked of me in this thread) a 50/50 chance of "what".

 

Last night was an atypical night it seems. Since returning from our vacation we have not really spoken all that much, we are both going in different directions work wise. She is very busy as am I. However, we had been at least trying to call each other during the day to talk etc. That has completely stopped. Now that is easily attributable to our work schedules but I know I could easily give her a call if I wanted to. However, the more I think on it the more I realize I don't want to.

 

I'm tired of being the one who is initiating lately, I am tired of the one who is bearing most of the load. I suppose I am just tired. For now I am going back to a 180 style of behavior. I can't help feeling bitter and even angry about what we went through. Sure I had a LARGE part to play in what happened, but so did she.

 

Even though I initially argued with hopesndreams about the fact that our communication "stinks", I tend to agree in hindsight.

 

I'm not about to do anything rash, but I am going to just re-focus on me, I had stopped bike riding and walking, but I am going to start again. I will also continue to focus on our daughter. What she choses to do is up to her at this point.

 

When all was said and done if we had of chosen D back in the beginning I am willing to bet it would be almost done by now

 

 

Yes and No W-N. What I mean is, that your head and your heart are in the right place, but I don't think your making all the right moves. Your actions are actually at odds.. Keep in mind that you are trying to save a marriage, a partnership. The I'm doing what I'm doing and she can do what she wants.... well that sounds for all the world like my life, as a divorced man! Not a happy one I might add.

 

Whats called for here is balance. Finding a way to maintain the fragile conection you agonized over rebuilding but all the while not losing sight of yourself. Yes ride your bike, walk, work on yourself, but is it your intention to be alone?

 

I tell you all the time that our situations were similar, well, I crossed this bridge as well. We had reopened the lines of communication and were actually pretty decent together, not anywhere near what we were, but we interacted OK and we were both trying. We took a weekend away, didn't talk about it, enjoyed each other. When we returned home, I wanted to talk about it all some more, take the temperature of things. I felt in my mind she was distant and wanted her to be as devoted to repairing things as I was. I withdrew, hoping she would get the message, and she did, but not as i would have liked, because all the things i was thinking about her, she was now thinking about me. (pitfall number 1)

 

So I had thought I had learned my lesson, so i was more devoted then ever, wanted to talk every time i got the urge or another thought popped in my head.. she literally ran for the hills. Friends, her parents wherever she could to get away from the pressure. From that point on my only interaction was through text message and email or a phonecall always initiated by me. (pitfall number 2) I had driven her away!

 

I had let my emotions rule me, my anger made me withdraw, wanting her to prove herself to me, my panic made me push, wanting to "fix" it. Both ends of the spectrum and neither was right, because both were too much. If I had been able to keep balance between the two, give myself some space and respect hers as well all the while not losing sight of the things that needed to be addressed at BOTH of our comfort levels, well, I'll never know what might have happened, but at the very least, I might have been able to sustain a little less emotional damage along the way.

 

So since I'm getting pretty long winded, YES YOUR COMMUNICATION SUX!!! Cutting it off isn't going to help that and will just tie you in knots in the mean time. Shes not on LS getting advice, shes dealing with a whole different crop of emotion that you don't know about, and she doesn't know all of what your feeling either. Keep going, but you need to move at a pace you BOTH agree on, so ask her what shes comfortable with.

 

TOJAZ

[twisted&alone]

W-N, I understand tired...I turned myself inside the time before this that we split so I know where you are coming from. Sometimes we need to look at the situation from above because the other person will take us for granted or expect us to be the one to "fix" when it starts to break again. Enjoying time with your daughter and relaxing is a great "stress relief." She noticed your changes...that a positive - if you want it to work focus on those positives however small they maybe - don't make my mistake and look for the "tidal wave" sometimes a small overture can me monumental, but we so often don't see the little things. I know it's hard to be the one who appears to be placing all the effort, but we are all different. I'd ask myself if I wanted to the relationship. As to Tojaz, "Shes not on LS getting advice, shes dealing with a whole different crop of emotion that you don't know about..." no matter how legitimate that may be, "she" must put forth effort and work and not depend on you to save the day. She must be committed to making it work; maybe her noticing your changes is her way...if it's not enough talk to her; if its worth it to you. Hoping for the best for you!

[What_Next]

Tojaz and twisted&alone, both of your posts are actually saying something very similiar. I think to a degree you are both correct as well.

 

I laid downstairs for a while last night and just thought in the peace and quiet. I realized I was just that, tired. I also realized that what I was perceiving was not necessarily reality in terms of her perspective. This entire process is exhausting and there will be times I'm sure when both of us want to throw in the towel. I went back upstairs and she was long asleep and we slept in the same bed.

 

Our work schedules are still way out of sync so we didn't see each other this morning. On my drive into work I called her and started out asking how her day was, to which she replied terrible. We spoke about this weekend and our daughter and it was fine.

 

I am happy I chose to stay quiet and not say anything. Now I could have done it in a different way in terms of not ignoring her outright, but at least I didn't blurt anything out and make things worse for us both.

 

I will try and look for the little things and see what mindset that puts me in.

 

In either case I am liking my new look (let's see if she or anyone else notices) and am looking forward to continuing to have fun with my daughter.

 

Cheers.

[BetweenHere&There]

The I'm doing what I'm doing and she can do what she wants.... well that sounds for all the world like my life, as a divorced man! Not a happy one I might add.

 

Whats called for here is balance. Finding a way to maintain the fragile conection you agonized over rebuilding but all the while not losing sight of yourself. Yes ride your bike, walk, work on yourself, but is it your intention to be alone?

 

Good advice here WN - Two married people can be comfortable with doing things on their own, but they need to do things together that they enjoy....things where they enjoy each others company. My ex and I were never on the same page....that led to an eventual demise.

 

In the end, his attempt to save it was by taking the advice of friends and trying to bring back memories of old rock music. The problem was, they were HIS memories of his old life...not mine. The memories that this brought back was my time before him and his time before me. In those 15 years together, it became more and more apparent that he never really knew me as well as I knew him. What he will never know were the plans that I was trying to make for him....a weekend alone without a phone so he wouldn't be stressed out by his family....a milestone birthday party to a place he had always wanted to go.

 

Communication is the hardest part of any relationship.....it is also the fear or lack of listening that holds many people back from having successful relationships. We are all here learning....and that can be as hard or as easy as we want to make it. For every part of you that loves her, see her in the light you used to see her in and she will see you in that light as well. Love doesn't just go away, it changes over time...but it matures just like we all do.

[tojaz]

Tojaz and twisted&alone, both of your posts are actually saying something very similiar. I think to a degree you are both correct as well.

 

I laid downstairs for a while last night and just thought in the peace and quiet. I realized I was just that, tired. I also realized that what I was perceiving was not necessarily reality in terms of her perspective. This entire process is exhausting and there will be times I'm sure when both of us want to throw in the towel. I went back upstairs and she was long asleep and we slept in the same bed.

 

Our work schedules are still way out of sync so we didn't see each other this morning. On my drive into work I called her and started out asking how her day was, to which she replied terrible. We spoke about this weekend and our daughter and it was fine.

 

I am happy I chose to stay quiet and not say anything. Now I could have done it in a different way in terms of not ignoring her outright, but at least I didn't blurt anything out and make things worse for us both.

 

I will try and look for the little things and see what mindset that puts me in.

 

In either case I am liking my new look (let's see if she or anyone else notices) and am looking forward to continuing to have fun with my daughter.

 

Cheers.

 

Good stuff W_N, While I cant attest to the new look, I'm digging the new attitude. Keep it up and just keep telling yourself that even if she isn't expressing it as you'd like, shes still on the same path, let that count for a lot.

 

TOJAZ

[What_Next]

Ahh tojaz, the eternal voice of reason.

 

Today was reasonable enough I suppose with our communication pretty limited, a few text messages etc.

 

I have to admit that I am getting less commited as the days pass. I wish I could say my desire is growing stronger, but honestly it isn't. I cannot help feel this way either. Sure she is making her own small efforts and I know I shouldn't expect too much, but what if what she is giving isn't enough for me?

 

I find myself slowly beginning to think about dating, thinking about being happy again. Just enjoying a woman's company, discovering all the new things about a person.

 

I am wondering if a trial seperation isn't the best route at this point. She is simply not ready to discuss the topics that need discussing and I am not going to continue without getting everything out in the open.

 

It's time for me to do some deep soul searching and really determine what I want. I was so sure I wanted to save our marriage, but now I just don't know. I sat next to her tonight while we were eating dinner and the only thing that ran through my head was something she said to me a few weeks ago when I demanded some things from her "you are married to the WRONG woman". I am beginning to think she was right.

 

What a strange turn of events.

[What_Next]

Go away Jr. Isn't there a Jonas concert somewhere that you can attend?

 

The trolls are still in season it seems.

[Corporate]

Go away Jr. Isn't there a Jonas concert somewhere that you can attend?

 

The trolls are still in season it seems.

 

Why is there so much hate in you?

[What_Next]

Corporate I just don't know how else to say it, you add NOTHING whatsoever to this thread. In fact to my knowledge you've added virtually nothing to the LS community by reading your posts. You are like that child that just doesn't listen and keeps coming to the adult table at a holiday dinner when they belong at the childrens table.

 

I've tried being blunt with you, I've tried being rude to you, nothing gets through. I will try honey this time, please leave this thread alone. Please go play somewhere else.

 

LS is NOT the playground for you, why not find a forum where children talk about problems that children have and you'll fit right in. Around here people have REAL problems that are life changing events and people like you only serve to irritate us and prevent us from talking amongst ourselves.

 

Does that make it clear? Please don't hide behind a keyboard running around insulting people; sooner or later it WILL catch up with you.

[BetweenHere&There]

Hi WN, I have discovered a very handy feature on LS in the profile section. If you go to the option Ignore List and type in Corporates' name, you can totally ignore him. You will see that he made a post, but you cannot see the comments...it's sort of like putting the child in the corner and holding them to a time out. I think it's very useful.

 

Maybe the mod's won't ban him, but we as users get a little bit of control over someone who keeps trying to make people upset with their useless posts.

 

Hope that helps somewhat. :D

[hopesndreams]

Interesting how Corp can say whatever on here and I'm stuck posting with only a moderators approval first.

 

WN, I think your fog is lifting. Your mind is fighting your heart for control. However long that lasts, is up to you.

[What_Next]

BetweenHere&There, I didn't know that. THANKS SO MUCH!!! I will do that. At least I won't have to read his tripe any more. I will be sure to let Tojaz know as well.

 

Hopesndreams you are right. Today was the first day in a long time that I did not think of her. I called her this morning and told her that I was p___d off that she was only wearing her wedding rings at night. She has been taking them off in the morning and putting them back on when she comes home. She said it was because it was hot and her fingers were swelled. I told her she was full of s__t and basically hung up. If that was the case why wouldn't she take them with her and take them off later in the day. Funny that she left them right out where I could see them before heading into work.

 

I spent a bit of today chatting with someone I met online, it was a nice treat.

 

I am going to spend some more time with our child, laugh and have fun. To heck with everything else.

[BetweenHere&There]

BetweenHere&There, I didn't know that. THANKS SO MUCH!!! I will do that. At least I won't have to read his tripe any more. I will be sure to let Tojaz know as well.

 

Hopesndreams you are right. Today was the first day in a long time that I did not think of her. I called her this morning and told her that I was p___d off that she was only wearing her wedding rings at night. She has been taking them off in the morning and putting them back on when she comes home. She said it was because it was hot and her fingers were swelled. I told her she was full of s__t and basically hung up. If that was the case why wouldn't she take them with her and take them off later in the day. Funny that she left them right out where I could see them before heading into work.

 

I spent a bit of today chatting with someone I met online, it was a nice treat.

 

I am going to spend some more time with our child, laugh and have fun. To heck with everything else.

 

You are welcome WN - I posted it on Tojaz's thread too...hopefully he will see it.

 

On the rings....while it could sound plausible on the excuse she gave, but in my opinion it does sound fishy unfortunately. Myself, I always wore mine out, but took them off at home. I figured that my ex knew I was married to him so why did I need to wear them to bed...etc while in his presence. At any rate, I think that you had the right to ask her about it.

[hopesndreams]

Yep, the fingers swelling is a common one.

 

You have questions, you need answers. Whatever questions you need answered, ask.

 

If you don't ask, you don't get. Even when you ask, you don't get.

 

Actions speak volumes.

[What_Next]

I most certainly did have the right to ask her. Her answer was total B/S. She knows it, I know it. I don't really care. I let her know that I knew what she did. I'm not sure what her rationale was, nor do I want to even think about it.

[tojaz]

first of all WN, keep your head on straight here. Its very easy to imagine all sorts of scenarios and none of them good, and quite possibly none of them the truth. Yes you have a right to ask, but dont answer the question for her.

 

Any other clues that she may be leaning toward shifting out?

 

I'm more worried about the "friend" online, more then a friend?

 

TOJAZ

[What_Next]

Tojaz, I have completely given up trying to read her. She is playing head games and I will have none of it. If she is checking out, then you know what SO BE IT!!!!! Her choice of action was dis-respectful towards me. Period. Either she wears her rings or she doesn't; I can't control that one way or the other. What I can control is how I react.

 

Banner, I am only chatting with this person thus far. She knows my situation completely. I have been 100% honest and upfront with her. This is only a friendship thus far. The part that I am craving is conversation, not physical intimacy. She has NEVER been able to really carry on a conversation and I've always accepted that. Well I guess I have changed my mind on that to a certain degree.

 

No worries Tojaz I'm not about to run into a wall without my helmet on . I think hopesndreams coined it best, my heart and my head are at odds and my head is winning right now.