What next

[BetweenHere&There]

WN - I had a walk away husband...we pushed each other away for the most part....hurt after hurt. Not over affairs, EA's or anything like that but over lack of communication, verbal abuse and he loved to drink and gamble.

 

A couple of months after he left, he suddenly moved in with a woman about 2 weeks after a "make up" weekend (I am supposed to believe that it just "happened"). A month after moving in with her, he was texting me asking for another chance. The next day claiming he didn't mean it...another day whining that the grass wasn't greener...etc, etc. This went on for about 2 months here and there. It wasn't until a few months later we actually had a civil conversation where he said that he knew he didn't treat his family right...he didn't treat me right....he could do that with her, but not with me.

 

Had another woman not been in the picture....who knows...maybe things might have worked....maybe we both could have changed and become better people with a stronger marriage.

 

Right now...it's up to you...it's exasperating and confusing. But once one of you introduce another person into the equation....it's almost impossible because then everything you knew if definitely gone.

[LisaLee]

I've never cheated, nor would I....

 

I'm moving on. I will be actively dating...

 

Make a comment on one hand and then slap it out with the other. Good luck, What_Next, I have been following your story from the beginning and I am disappointed that it has come to this. I thought your marriage had some hope, but it looks like things are irreparable.

 

However, don't you think you are putting the cart way before the horse on that one statement about dating?

[What_Next]

Another fast set of posts.

 

Let me address some of them. It seems as though the impression exists that I am out there playing the field already. Good god no.

 

I have found some people to talk to, there's no more to it than that. It's not like I am out there sneaking around. It's just conversation. The wedding bells aren't ring just yet

 

Everyone please keep in mind for YEARS I've been in a marriage with almost zero communication, no intimacy.

 

So I have to 'suck it up' when it comes to her EA's? We've never even dealt with it. She's does little to save the marriage and I do all the heavy lifting and I am the bad guy. Back up a little everyone.

 

Tonight was another night of confusion, after bed time she went into OUR room and was crying loudly. Holding onto a picture of our family. She was bawling her eyes out. Saying over and over again, I love you, I don't want you to go. Don't leave me. Like I was the one to pull the plug in the first place? I tried to comfort her. I told her that our marriage was over and she didn't love me anymore. I really tried to be comforting.

 

Later on in the evening I was talking to a friend on the phone (yes just a friend, don't hop all over me!!!). She came downstairs and saw this and went sideways. She said "well don't stop talking to HER on my account". I tried to tell her it was just a friend etc. It did little good.

 

We did talk for a few minutes and I told her that we need to stop and perhaps even spend some time apart. Her reply was "I don't want you to go, I love you". Also more about how she wanted our marriage to continue. I let her know that for now we need to just "be". We need to just figure out how to live under the same roof and we can go from there.

 

I honestly do not want her any more. I'm spent. I'm at the end of my rope. We've hurt each other too much, we've said too much.

 

Am I the bad guy here? I don't believe I am. I have just made the decision to finally say enough is enough.

[hopesndreams]

Another fast set of posts.

 

Let me address some of them. It seems as though the impression exists that I am out there playing the field already. Good god no.

 

I have found some people to talk to, there's no more to it than that. It's not like I am out there sneaking around. It's just conversation. The wedding bells aren't ring just yet

 

Everyone please keep in mind for YEARS I've been in a marriage with almost zero communication, no intimacy.

 

So I have to 'suck it up' when it comes to her EA's? We've never even dealt with it. She's does little to save the marriage and I do all the heavy lifting and I am the bad guy. Back up a little everyone.

 

Tonight was another night of confusion, after bed time she went into OUR room and was crying loudly. Holding onto a picture of our family. She was bawling her eyes out. Saying over and over again, I love you, I don't want you to go. Don't leave me. Like I was the one to pull the plug in the first place? I tried to comfort her. I told her that our marriage was over and she didn't love me anymore. I really tried to be comforting.

 

Later on in the evening I was talking to a friend on the phone (yes just a friend, don't hop all over me!!!). She came downstairs and saw this and went sideways. She said "well don't stop talking to HER on my account". I tried to tell her it was just a friend etc. It did little good.

 

We did talk for a few minutes and I told her that we need to stop and perhaps even spend some time apart. Her reply was "I don't want you to go, I love you". Also more about how she wanted our marriage to continue. I let her know that for now we need to just "be". We need to just figure out how to live under the same roof and we can go from there.

 

I honestly do not want her any more. I'm spent. I'm at the end of my rope. We've hurt each other too much, we've said too much.

 

Am I the bad guy here? I don't believe I am. I have just made the decision to finally say enough is enough.

 

It comes as no surprise she is acting this way. My how the tables have turned eh?

 

You're not even backing down a little bit. I'm very impressed.

 

Expect more of the same from her. Next comes the hysterics, the begging and pleading. Why is she saying she doesn't want you to leave? Tell her it isn't you leaving the house, but her.

 

Studio apartments are easily affordable, especially if they are in a basement somewhere.

[What_Next]

This morning she came downstairs on her way to work and hugged me and tried to kiss me and told me she loved me etc.

 

I came upstairs to notes on the counter about how much she loved me etc.

 

One the way into work she called and texted me.

 

I think the worst feeling I have is that if I leave I'll be the one walking out on my family.

 

There is no way in h__ I want her like this. Either she comes 100% clean or we go nowhere.

 

Come on LS members, you've kept up with this thread this far, advice.

[Chrome Barracuda]

It could go either way 50/50 but if she's the one that filed and wanted to walk away from the marriage, and you finally accepted that, your under no obligation to fix it. She has to make the moves to do so, it falls on her.

 

I think she knows your serious about leaving that's why she's acting this way, females are strange creatures i swear. When we're doing bad they nag and nag, and when we do right for them they're still not happy! wtf i dont get it.

 

I mean not every female is like that but damn that's all im seeing on this board.

[cookie2]

There is no way in h__ I want her like this. Either she comes 100% clean or we go nowhere.

 

Come on LS members, you've kept up with this thread this far, advice.

I think you said it all yourself 100% or nothing.

 

You've been doing brilliantly so far, I hope that when my STBXW comes knocking and grovelling, I have as much willpower as you. I know it will happen one day, you're an inspiration!

[spriggig]

This morning she came downstairs on her way to work and hugged me and tried to kiss me and told me she loved me etc.

 

I came upstairs to notes on the counter about how much she loved me etc.

 

One the way into work she called and texted me.

 

I think the worst feeling I have is that if I leave I'll be the one walking out on my family.

 

There is no way in h__ I want her like this. Either she comes 100% clean or we go nowhere.

 

Come on LS members, you've kept up with this thread this far, advice.

 

If the butterflies come back for her, NOTHING will stand in her way. You could move to Tibet and live on a mountain and she would show up and bang on your door.

 

The only way you two have a chance is if Vasopressin and Oxytocin are flowing again. You're not a dog, you can't tell that by smelling her, she's going to have to prove it by ACTING like she's in love with you--like a smitten teenager--this morning's signs were a first step but she could be lying, both to herself and you.

[What_Next]

Well is it time now to demand to come clean and talk about what I think she was doing? I think it is.

 

There is only 1 way this marriage will survive. If she drastically changes. I already have changed, she needs to as well.

 

How do we go about putting the pain/hurt and mis-trust behind us.

 

How do I know this is real?

 

She cried, she bawled, for the first time. I have only EVER saw her like once before and it was when her grandfather passed away.

 

This is surreal.

[Steadfast]

I can only compare my personal experiences and relate them to yours. I'm just over two years past where you are. She moved out, had PA's and I divorced her. Through it all and right up to now she tries from time to time to reel me back in -but just to a point. In addition to the texts about missing/loving me, she has hugged, cried, kissed and endured a few pretty shocking breakdowns in my presence. Not always mind you; she is more often cool and indifferent, and sometimes weeks go by between visits. But when the mood for her strikes her words follow a similar theme; she's scared, misses my care, she misses being in a family, is sorry for 'being mean' and tells me there is no one like me. Those are her words.

 

And that's the point W_N; they are only words, delivered in measure and frequency that's directly proportionate to my actions of moving away from her. Her actions and lifestyle, as far as I can tell, have not changed. One night, seemingly in a fit of physical and mental despair she called and said she was 'craving' me. Then she added (knowing I have a girlfriend) "But I wouldn't want to get you in trouble". I never thought I'd see the day when she offered sex. I mean never. You would think my rejection of her offer would anger her, but it didn't. It bumped her interest in me even higher.

 

Compare her words to her actions W_N and if it helps, tell her now (before you're actually divorced) just how important it is that you recognize the difference. If she loves you and her love is strong, she'll do whatever it takes to make things right. If it's all talk, then shovel more coal in the box.

 

You still love her, or you wouldn't be asking these questions. There is NO shame in that. If my wife would have come clean, I would have tried too.

Edited August 20, 2010 by Steadfast

[What_Next]

Steadfast, I am not 100% sure she did get involved in a PA. In fact if she did it is OVER. No turning back. I think she knows this so even if I asked she might be afraid to answer me. Therefore I don't even know if I want to ask.

 

I agree, it's about actions now, not words. Hugging me and trying to kiss me do little to effect me right now. I need to know that our marriage will change. I need to know our marriage can change. I don't believe either right now.

 

Steadfast, yes I still have feelings for her. Of course I do, with our history how could I not. However, just because there are leftover feelings there it doesn't mean it's enough to rebuild our shattered marriage.

[Steadfast]

Either the marriage is based on truth, or it isn't. I don't believe that spouses have to tell *everything*, especially if what they did makes them realize how important their spouse and marriage is to them. Ignorance can be bliss, but in your case too much has happened. There is no room for lingering doubts.

 

Both of you need to come clean, then decide what to do. If she truly loves you, she'll want you to be happy. If she loves herself more, then she'll play both ends against the middle.

[What_Next]

She and I have been exchanging messages all day. We haven't spoke this much in years. I mean YEARS. Not all positive, but there is not one single thing I asked that she did not answer.

 

I have a lot more questions for her for sure. She has said she will answer whatever I need to ask.

 

I let her know that I cannot run back into her arms. In fact I WON'T be doing that. Her answer was direct and without hesitation that she understood and she would wait patiently for me.

 

I am out of town on business next week and that will help me clear my head.

 

I am very conflicted, but at least there is no pressure from her. She says that she will wait. Right now her actions will tell the tale for me.

[What_Next]

I am headed home soon and while I am still undecided on what to do I have to admit I believe she is being sincere.

 

However, her actions will dictate what will happen from here on out. I have done my part and will continue to stay the course.

 

If she asks or desires changes within me as long as I feel they are reasonable I see no issue with compling.

 

In a way this is sort of like a business transaction in a way. I hate to equate it like that, but she needs to hold up her end of the bargain and I need to see value in it to move forward. I know that sounds cold and calculating but it is the way it is.

 

I will let everyone know how tonight goes. That's about as far into the future as I am willing to think right now.

[hopesndreams]

Get to the truth.

 

Of course you don't want to hear of her EA's. But, without that knowledge? The M is a sham.

[tojaz]

I'm giving her NOTHING. It's over, done, finished. There is no reconiliation.

 

Im not the type to say I told you so (who am I kidding, of course I am!) but I was pretty sure this story wasn't over.

 

Shes trying pretty hard W_N, I know it isn't all that you want, but give her credit for giving all she can at the moment.

 

Your right calling it a business transaction does seem pretty cold. I prefer a free exchange and thats what you have to keep in mind. It doesn't all fall on her shoulders because you did the heavy lifting and it doesn't fall on yours because your holding the reins right now. Its something you both have to do together and in a way that works and is comfortable for the both of you.

 

Nows a good time to go back and look at what was said about communication and creating a safe environment for that. That means unconditional she can come to you with anything and vice versa, if your standing with one foot out the door threatening to leave, then its not going to work.

 

Answer the question for your self "Do you want to save it?" Then ask her. If your both in it, then dig in, but you have to do it together, no more only if she does this and only if he says that BS. She has things to prove to you but you have just as much to prove to her. Keep that in mind.

 

TOJAZ

[BetweenHere&There]

Im not the type to say I told you so (who am I kidding, of course I am!) but I was pretty sure this story wasn't over.

 

Shes trying pretty hard W_N, I know it isn't all that you want, but give her credit for giving all she can at the moment.

 

Your right calling it a business transaction does seem pretty cold. I prefer a free exchange and thats what you have to keep in mind. It doesn't all fall on her shoulders because you did the heavy lifting and it doesn't fall on yours because your holding the reins right now. Its something you both have to do together and in a way that works and is comfortable for the both of you.

 

Nows a good time to go back and look at what was said about communication and creating a safe environment for that. That means unconditional she can come to you with anything and vice versa, if your standing with one foot out the door threatening to leave, then its not going to work.

 

Answer the question for your self "Do you want to save it?" Then ask her. If your both in it, then dig in, but you have to do it together, no more only if she does this and only if he says that BS. She has things to prove to you but you have just as much to prove to her. Keep that in mind.

 

TOJAZ

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

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yeah...what he said!!!!

[What_Next]

Tojaz, the thing is as of yet I just cannot give her my 100%. I do not want to get hurt again. No I won't put it like that in terms of keeping 1 foot out the door. However, right now her actions will determine the course of our marriage.

 

I am committed to continuing my "new" ways, however she needs to show me that she is also commited to her "new" ways.

 

It takes 2 to have a happy and healthy marriage. I am but 1/2 of that.

 

Last night was lovely, she was 180 degrees away from what she was and it was lovely. No I didn't fall head over heels for her or anything, but it was a step in the right direction.

 

We'll see what happens when I ask her some harder questions. If she withdrawls and clams up again.

 

Thanks for following along everyone.

[kuma]

Answer the question for your self "Do you want to save it?" Then ask her. If your both in it, then dig in, but you have to do it together, no more only if she does this and only if he says that BS. She has things to prove to you but you have just as much to prove to her. Keep that in mind.

 

Great advice.

 

What_Next, I understand you don't want to get hurt again. But can you please give her a second chance? I believe your marriage can survive if you both learn how to communicate each other. She still loves you and doesn't want to lose you.

Edited August 21, 2010 by kuma

[tojaz]

Tojaz, the thing is as of yet I just cannot give her my 100%. I do not want to get hurt again. No I won't put it like that in terms of keeping 1 foot out the door. However, right now her actions will determine the course of our marriage.

 

I am committed to continuing my "new" ways, however she needs to show me that she is also commited to her "new" ways.

 

It takes 2 to have a happy and healthy marriage. I am but 1/2 of that.

 

Last night was lovely, she was 180 degrees away from what she was and it was lovely. No I didn't fall head over heels for her or anything, but it was a step in the right direction.

 

We'll see what happens when I ask her some harder questions. If she withdrawls and clams up again.

 

Thanks for following along everyone.

 

W_N I want to point out that you are in a unique position here, one you can learn from and use to help open new lines of communication with your wife. You have flipped roles. You had fought for her and now your making her fight for you. You are feeling what she felt making the hard decision and shes feeling the hurt and abandonment that go along with feeling left behind. Sounds like a great way to start an open Dialogue about your emotional states as you both have experience.

 

I said that up until this point I've been the only one initiating conversations and trying to at least move forward. I told her I was uncomfortable with that and in my opinion it was a receipe for disaster.

 

 

Do you remember that? Here is a disturbing trend I'm noticing though, and thats the lack of mutuality. Since day one you have been waiting for her to prove herself. First when she was shifting out and now that you are. Theres only so much she can prove to you and only so much a person will give without having that reciprocated. What kind of message does it send? Well you already know. Because you lived it! You were here talking to me about how hurt you were that she wasn't initiating any of the healing, that you wanted to see it from her. Now the tables are turned......... Think about that.

 

She agreed and while she did only initially say she would try, it was a positive response. She said she had not because she was afraid of the reaction she might get from me. I told her she would take to take a leap of faith and see what happens.

 

I am not going to push, but nor will I continue to grow apart, and that is what will happen if things continue. We will use the MC as a roadmap but we also must act to fix the marriage outside MC.

 

 

Like I said, the roles are reversed now. Take the leap of faith because holding back from her is what leads to growing apart. The only thing you have to lose is your wife, but you were staring down that barrell anyway my friend, better to be proactive and risk failure, then hide in the corner and guarantee it.

 

TOJAZ

[What_Next]

Tojaz, you have a bunch of valid points in your post. First I am not saying she has to "fight" for me. She just needs to show me that she is willing to make the changes I see as necessary to return our marriage to a healthy one. Our marriage was BADLY broken before all of this started. We BOTH need to make changes to ensure it not only survives this crisis, but avoids the next one.

 

It's not as if I am pulled back and not out there, I most definitely am. My behavior has not wavered at all. Even after her recent change of heart.

 

You are making it seem that since she has decided she wanted back in, that I am in some way punishing her. Nothing could be further from the truth. Bottom line she came to ME and said she didn't want to lose me. Well then that statement must be backed up with actions. Remember way back when I was the one telling her I did not want to lose her, well I had to back that up and I did.

 

In all honesty after going through all of this I finally came to the realization of just how bad our marriage was to begin with. I also realized that I simply do not want to continue to be married to her like that. I would much rather let it go and have us both be happy. On the other hand though if we BOTH can make the changes necessary and our marriage becomes healthy then sure I'd be willing to stick with it. ONLY IF the changes are made and they stick.

 

I'm not sure I can get past all of this and I'm not sure if I even want to. I've told her that. I am willing to try, but that doesn't mean we will stay together. I can only say that if we don't then I know I can go on. I didn't know that before. I also know there would be someone else out there for me, which I also did not know before.

[BetweenHere&There]

Hi W_N – I took some time to go back and read your story from the beginning again. I wanted to re-evaluate where you were coming from in the beginning…what you were looking for to these changes that you are making and the changes you are expecting her to make. Honestly, I’m trying hard not to project my own marital issues into your thread but the similarities are so close, it’s hard not to. I’m actually reading your story from my own ex’s perspective rather than my own as where you are now is what I see so similar to my own ex’s actions and thoughts.

 

I say this because you haven’t really spelled out your expectations of her. You state that you made the efforts and the changes (you referenced anger issues in the beginning), all these things that you did and now she must back up her wanting to save the marriage by showing you with her actions that she is really wanting to save it. What actions are you expecting and does she know what you are expecting? I can say at least you are talking to her about things…mine didn’t take the time….he came back and pretty much thought it was up to me to save 15 years without any effort on his part. I was supposed to “know” what he expected.

 

W_N – my ex and I never could communicate….even worse, we were very poor at listening to each other. LISTENING….the most important side of communication and the part most people lack. So many times when communicating; people spend more time on the rebuttal than listening to what the other person is saying….I spent 15 years in that type of communicative nightmare….such a simple thing but it made our marriage a living dysfunctional Hades.

 

“In all honesty after going through all of this I finally came to the realization of just how bad our marriage was to begin with. I also realized that I simply do not want to continue to be married to her like that. I would much rather let it go and have us both be happy.”

 

Little secret that people who have been successfully married for decades will tell you….it’s actually good that you realize this because lack of communication in a marriage is the basis of most unhappiness. You have a choice….be married to her like “that”…(but the past that is unchangeable)….or moving forward to a new perspective of your marriage, a deeper understanding or yourself and of her. If this is where you are looking for the changes, you need to tell her that…else if you are looking to validate moving on with your life looking for something else….you may only find the same old stone being turned in the future.

 

Ultimately, the choice is yours, but it’s easier to validate what you are unhappy about rather than what you would be happy with.

[What_Next]

BetweenHere&there your post is very thoughtful and well put. I thank you for it.

 

Today started very odd. Very early this morning I was woken up by my wife hitting me in the chest. Not entirely abnormal as I do snore. I fell asleep again and woke up later; alone. Well I came downstairs and I knew something was wrong. I asked her about it, she said everything was fine. I left the room telling her I guess nothing had really changed. She chased me and she went on to say that apparently she had dreams about me leaving her for the woman I was talking to on the phone the other night.

 

The discussion got VERY heated with her exclaiming that she had been having nightmares about me leaving her for YEARS. Apparently most of it surrounded some girl that I had feelings for back when I was like 17. It was very surreal. The conversation turned into an argument and I eventually told her I should leave and get some air. I left and went to my office. We continued to talk via text and we got some things out in the open.

 

I realized she has been hanging on to things from our past, from our DISTANT past, like 20 years ago. It really surprised me.

 

We did talk throughout the day. It did get better.

 

However, tonight it all hit me like a hammer again. I decided to sleep downstairs again.

 

 

I am leaving for a business trip tomorrow, I honestly need the weeks rest.

[spriggig]

Well I came downstairs and I knew something was wrong. I asked her about it, she said everything was fine. I left the room telling her I guess nothing had really changed. She chased me and she went on to say that apparently she had dreams about me leaving her for the woman I was talking to on the phone the other night.

 

Good sign, she caught your meaning and realized she had to open up.

 

That little scorecard people (mostly women) keep in their heads and hold grudges over--they hold onto it for defense in arguments and to rationalize irrational behavior, it seems.

Edited August 23, 2010 by spriggig

[hopesndreams]

BetweenHere&there your post is very thoughtful and well put. I thank you for it.

 

Today started very odd. Very early this morning I was woken up by my wife hitting me in the chest. Not entirely abnormal as I do snore. I fell asleep again and woke up later; alone. Well I came downstairs and I knew something was wrong. I asked her about it, she said everything was fine. I left the room telling her I guess nothing had really changed. She chased me and she went on to say that apparently she had dreams about me leaving her for the woman I was talking to on the phone the other night.

 

The discussion got VERY heated with her exclaiming that she had been having nightmares about me leaving her for YEARS. Apparently most of it surrounded some girl that I had feelings for back when I was like 17. It was very surreal. The conversation turned into an argument and I eventually told her I should leave and get some air. I left and went to my office. We continued to talk via text and we got some things out in the open.

 

I realized she has been hanging on to things from our past, from our DISTANT past, like 20 years ago. It really surprised me.

 

We did talk throughout the day. It did get better.

 

However, tonight it all hit me like a hammer again. I decided to sleep downstairs again.

 

I am leaving for a business trip tomorrow, I honestly need the weeks rest.

 

Sounds like a bunch of hooey to me. I think she just threw something out there for you to bite into to pull the wool over your eyes. To diffuse the situation. Make you take the blame for her attitude toward you and the marriage. Yeah, yeah...so pessimistic.

 

I remember my H doing the same thing and bringing up something from 7 years ago as the reason for him "looking for a better life." Would have been nice if he had told me at the time! I didn't believe him then, and don't believe him now. I'm divorced though. Maybe you'll have a better outcome.

 

However, tonight it all hit me like a hammer again. I decided to sleep downstairs again.

 

Did you see through the ruse?