What next

[What_Next]

FanFan, am I still angry? Umm yes. I'd hazard to say that's normal.

 

I wish I had more positive news, but I do not. Things are just not progressing well. Constant fighting, arguing.

 

We really are trying but I am not sure what the end result will be.

 

Given everything that has happened I suppose I should not be surprised.

 

Things went downhill quickly last night and even worse today. I just do not believe her story in terms of what she did with him and it is eating away at me. I keep asking her to tell the truth as I feel she is not. I just cannot get past it. Today I told her I wanted to contact her AP. Not sure why, the thing is that she met basically his entire family and spent 2 full weekends with them. I need confirmation of what she did. It will in my own twisted mindset allow me to begin the process of healing. Her response is that she is going to go and see the woman I was involved with. I feel this is a vindictive thing on her part to do, heck my insistance to contact her AP is bad enough (but in some ways justifiable) but her contacting the woman I was seeing after we split up? That part is eating away at me also.

 

This is so hard.

Edited November 9, 2010 by What_Next

[FanFan]

Her response is that she is going to go and see the woman I was involved with. I feel this is a vindictive thing on her part to do, heck my insistance to contact her AP is bad enough (but in some ways justifiable) but her contacting the woman I was seeing after we split up? That part is eating away at me also.

 

This is so hard.

 

What a cheating biaxxx!!! She is lying, cheating, and vindictive. What a keeper.

 

Sorry, just thinking out loud.

[HopelessinDTW]

FanFan, am I still angry? Umm yes. I'd hazard to say that's normal.

 

I wish I had more positive news, but I do not. Things are just not progressing well. Constant fighting, arguing.

 

We really are trying but I am not sure what the end result will be.

 

Given everything that has happened I suppose I should not be surprised.

 

Things went downhill quickly last night and even worse today. I just do not believe her story in terms of what she did with him and it is eating away at me. I keep asking her to tell the truth as I feel she is not. I just cannot get past it. Today I told her I wanted to contact her AP. Not sure why, the thing is that she met basically his entire family and spent 2 full weekends with them. I need confirmation of what she did. It will in my own twisted mindset allow me to begin the process of healing. Her response is that she is going to go and see the woman I was involved with. I feel this is a vindictive thing on her part to do, heck my insistance to contact her AP is bad enough (but in some ways justifiable) but her contacting the woman I was seeing after we split up? That part is eating away at me also.

 

This is so hard.

 

I don't understand why you need to talk to the OM...how will the truth help you any more now? You need to put that s**t behind you! whatever she did or did not do is not important anymore in moving forward. Yes, she's being vindictive, but at the same time you are trying to dig up stuff that both of you are trying to get past. Please do not try to contact the OM, just drop it and move on with your recovery.

[FanFan]

I don't understand why you need to talk to the OM...how will the truth help you any more now? You need to put that s**t behind you! whatever she did or did not do is not important anymore in moving forward. Yes, she's being vindictive, but at the same time you are trying to dig up stuff that both of you are trying to get past. Please do not try to contact the OM, just drop it and move on with your recovery.

 

I disagree. He has the right to know the truth and whatever she did, it's part of HIS history as well and he has every right to know it. He is kind enough to give her a second chance. What does she do, still lying and now being vindictive. Com'on now.

[You Go Girl]

I don't understand why you need to talk to the OM...how will the truth help you any more now? You need to put that s**t behind you! whatever she did or did not do is not important anymore in moving forward. Yes, she's being vindictive, but at the same time you are trying to dig up stuff that both of you are trying to get past. Please do not try to contact the OM, just drop it and move on with your recovery.

 

I agree with this. Calling up the OM sounds like torture for you both. Is this about truth? That some part of the truth is missing? Do you really think he's going to hammer the nails into her cross for you? Do you even want him to do that?

If she's withheld some gory details, just accept that that might be a possibility and that she's done it to minimize pain for you both. What good would they do? Examination of details isn't necessary. Now if she was in a big way gaslighting you, that would be something else.

As for her calling up the OW, well she's just trying to get a point across, and I don't think she was serious, because she'd never drum up as much dirt as you will, if that's your motive. The two actions can't compare.

 

That there is a part of your lives, both of yours, that was separate from each other. Get over that, it's a fact, and it isn't going to change.

I do think you are taking backward steps...not sure that this talking to the OM idea leads anywhere forward.

I understand your need to heal, WN. But I don't think obsessing is the answer. I think her making strides to treat you well is the answer, and if she's doing that, then she's doing all that she can.

Present and future, not the past.

[What_Next]

FanFan, I'm not quite going to go that far. She did cheat, I don't believe she is acting now (well for the past 2 weeks anyway). I have little doubt there was contact between her and her AP after she said it stopped. However, that is of little concern to me.

 

FanFan, your second post appeared after I began to type this one, so I'll address it, yes I agree it is part of my PRESENT, NOT MY PAST! I feel I deserve to know what she did yes.

 

I don't understand why you need to talk to the OM...how will the truth help you any more now?

 

The main reason is to in some way attempt to confirm what she has been saying. I do not believe her in any way when it comes to her answers about what she did. I am perhaps trying to try and get independent proof as a way to maybe begin to trust? Mis-guided I am sure, but that's my reasoning.

 

I personally think her insistence in contacting the woman I dated is vindictive and shows a VERY nasty side to her personality and that is worrying me. I know she reads LS often so she will read this.

[HopelessinDTW]

FanFan, I'm not quite going to go that far. She did cheat, I don't believe she is acting now (well for the past 2 weeks anyway). I have little doubt there was contact between her and her AP after she said it stopped. However, that is of little concern to me.

 

FanFan, your second post appeared after I began to type this one, so I'll address it, yes I agree it is part of my PRESENT, NOT MY PAST! I feel I deserve to know what she did yes.

 

 

 

The main reason is to in some way attempt to confirm what she has been saying. I do not believe her in any way when it comes to her answers about what she did. I am perhaps trying to try and get independent proof as a way to maybe begin to trust? Mis-guided I am sure, but that's my reasoning.

 

I personally think her insistence in contacting the woman I dated is vindictive and shows a VERY nasty side to her personality and that is worrying me. I know she reads LS often so she will read this.

 

So, you really are not after the truth, but to "test" to see if she's lying to you? And so, you have doubts that she is telling you the truth in general about anything. Well I understand, BUT in this particular case you may be trying to dig up things that she is not very proud of. And as YGG said, she may be "hiding" the details so that further damage to your already fragile situation does not occur. You should should seriously reconsider what you are planning on doing. At this point, you just need to have FAITH that what she's telling you is the truth, and not try to test her by independent verification.

[What_Next]

Calling up the OM sounds like torture for you both. Is this about truth? That some part of the truth is missing? Do you really think he's going to hammer the nails into her cross for you? Do you even want him to do that?

If she's withheld some gory details, just accept that that might be a possibility and that she's done it to minimize pain for you both. What good would they do? Examination of details isn't necessary. Now if she was in a big way gaslighting you, that would be something else.

As for her calling up the OW, well she's just trying to get a point across, and I don't think she was serious, because she'd never drum up as much dirt as you will, if that's your motive. The two actions can't compare.

 

Let me address you post in parts YGG, first I DO BELIEVE she is gaslighting. Yes most definitely. She is only telling the truth when it suits her in my opinion. If I want the gory details than I feel as though I have the right to have them. Will it tear me up, yes, but that's my choice right? By not answering honestly it is a continuation of her being dishonest. Pure and simple.

 

She has also said openly that what I did was "an affair" and it was just as bad as what she did, in fact she called it worse because I started seeing her before I moved. I still find this an outlandish statement on her part and I wish she'd retract it.

 

I understand your need to heal, WN. But I don't think obsessing is the answer. I think her making strides to treat you well is the answer, and if she's doing that, then she's doing all that she can.

Present and future, not the past.

 

Really so she cheats, then because she cooks dinner or tells me when she goes to work then that is "all she can do?". Sorry, but no dice. She even had the nerve to tell me since our reconciliation that I have not "been open" since I have not turned over passwords to my email/facebook etc?

 

I do apologize if I appear to be lashing out, I am just a little angry today.

[What_Next]

So, you really are not after the truth, but to "test" to see if she's lying to you? And so, you have doubts that she is telling you the truth in general about anything. Well I understand, BUT in this particular case you may be trying to dig up things that she is not very proud of. And as YGG said, she may be "hiding" the details so that further damage to your already fragile situation does not occur. You should should seriously reconsider what you are planning on doing. At this point, you just need to have FAITH that what she's telling you is the truth, and not try to test her by independent verification.

 

Yes it is a test, most definitely a test. I told her that.

 

FAITH? Are you kidding me? She cheated on me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She gets NO FAITH!!!!! NO TRUST!!! She earns it. I will seek independent verification of almost anything she tells me until I see fit. If she cannot deal with that then she is best to move on.

 

In time I may trust her little by little, but her actions since our reconciliation have not rebuilt any trust. There are other very serious things that have happened that I cannot post openly, but if I did others would understand why I need "proof" of anything she says.

 

She is not a bad person, I do also still love, her but I DO NOT TRUST HER. No way. She will earn that.

 

Am I so off base? If I am please have at it, I'm a big boy and can criticism.

[Steadfast]

W_N, you're trying to pull off the emotional equivalent of raising the Titanic. Did you honestly expect anything less? One thing people seem to forget about recons is you and her are still you and her. Same issues, same strengths and weaknesses. A little wiser, certainly, but that's offset by the other people that you've brought into the relationship. Are you under the care of a professional? If not, I'd consider that. You need some guidance.

 

The problems that existed before are still there. You both know that, right?

 

Two very dear friends of mine overcame infidelity, and they did it without the aid of a professional. Once they both agreed to stay in the marriage (because they loved each other) they set some ground rules about what could, and couldn't happen. They recognized patterns of communication that led to arguments and adjusted accordingly. No 'pushing buttons.'

 

They had one important rule: Don't ask a question unless you're willing to hear the whole, un-sugarcoated truth. In time, my friends grew less and less curious about 'what happened' and started appreciating the fact that they were still together. "Look, I'm here, not there" one of them said once, and that reality brought them closer together. Actions W_N, judge actions!

 

My suggestion to you is, take this woman in your arms, tell her you love and miss her, then kiss her like you mean it. Apologize in advance for anything stupid you might do then...trust her to do the same. I don't think she'd be there, with you, if she didn't love you. No one is perfect. At some point, you must surrender to this love or kick it to the curb for good.

[What_Next]

Steadfast your post as always is so heartfelt and insightful. I agree with most of it. As for help, I will see no IC, not a chance. I personally think counsiling is a bunch of nonsense and a waste of money. We "tried" it and it was a joke, hell she banged the guy the night before we went! Bah humbug (tongue in cheek). I have asked her to find a MC, but I am unsure as to whether or not I'll go. I might, but that's my decision.

 

I am always ready to hear the details, the truth. It is all I want. Anything she's asked about my relationship she's heard the truth. I hold NOTHING back. It's the only way I'll be going forward.

 

My suggestion to you is, take this woman in your arms, tell her you love and miss her, then kiss her like you mean it. Apologize in advance for anything stupid you might do then...trust her to do the same. I don't think she'd be there, with you, if she didn't love you. No one is perfect. At some point, you must surrender to this love or kick it to the curb for good.

 

Now this last statement is a tougher one. So I reward her cheating behavior? Sorry but I don't see that.

 

No one is perfect? Umm well that is true, but NOTHING EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER justifies what she did to me.

 

I know, I know, a little more anger coming out forgive me

[hopesndreams]

I personally think her insistence in contacting the woman I dated is vindictive and shows a VERY nasty side to her personality and that is worrying me. I know she reads LS often so she will read this.

 

It's all about control. You having an A, yes, an A, you were both technically M, has taken the heat off her, big time! She doesn't feel she needs to work through her own issues anymore and doesn't need to show any remorse at all in order for the M to get back on track. The finger is now pointed, at you.

 

Two wrongs don't make a right. I wonder how much her jealousy of your "new woman" played a part in the recon. If it played a HUGE part, than nothing but trouble can come from this.

 

Her reading this thread gives her the heads up. She will do/say whatever needs to be done/said to get her way just by reading the advice given to you.

[What_Next]

Hopesndreams, what an interesting perspective.

 

I still don't term it as an affair since an affair is a hidden thing, what I did was far from hidden.

 

She said all along she wanted me back, when I decided to give her a chance there was no doubt she'd want to.

 

That is a good point about her reading this thread as well.

 

More things to ponder.

 

One of the things that concerns me is that she is playing headgames of sorts. I won't get into it here, but let's just say she had a "friend" try and set me up. Now she fessed up eventually (I was on to it anyway) and that has shaken my confidence in her.

Edited November 9, 2010 by What_Next

[FanFan]

 

She has also said openly that what I did was "an affair" and it was just as bad as what she did, in fact she called it worse because I started seeing her before I moved. I still find this an outlandish statement on her part and I wish she'd retract it.

 

A repentant cheater would never say that. A vindictive one, yes. I hope you open your eyes on what you're getting yourself into.

[FanFan]

 

One of the things that concerns me is that she is playing headgames of sorts. I won't get into it here, but let's just say she had a "friend" try and set me up. Now she fessed up eventually (I was on to it anyway) and that has shaken my confidence in her.

 

That's dishonesty, a true nature of a liar and a cheater.

[Steadfast]

Then divorce her and be done with it! You are trying to save a relationship, so there is no room for games, secrets, ploys or power struggles. This is bordering on insane! Does she love you or not? Does someone have to be in control? Why can't you just love each other and live your lives?

 

It shouldn't be that hard. The recon -even the challenges- should produce more joy than pain. It sounds like you two are too busy battling to do anything else!

 

Fix this, the two of you. And if you can't, then get out. You're going to drive each other crazy-

[What_Next]

Steadfast, well said. I agree about it bordering on insanity. Heck I'd hazard to say it is smack dab in the middle of insaneville, insanetown, or count insane! Believe me I am not trying to make light of the situation, just venting.

 

We've been through hell and back together, it is so hard to let it all go.

 

Back to the drawing board.

[Steadfast]

Time to apply some wisdom from Winston Churchill:

 

“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never - in nothing, great or small, large or petty - never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense”

 

“There are a terrible lot of lies going about the world, and the worst of it is that half of them are true.”

 

“We are masters of the unsaid words, but slaves of those we let slip out”

 

“Watch your thoughts, for they become words.

Watch your words, for they become actions.

Watch your actions, for they become habits.

Watch your habits, for they become character.

Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.”

 

“Love me when I least deserve it, because that's when I really need it.”

 

and finally,

 

"When you're going through hell, keep going"

[bestplayer]

Steadfast, well said. I agree about it bordering on insanity. Heck I'd hazard to say it is smack dab in the middle of insaneville, insanetown, or count insane! Believe me I am not trying to make light of the situation, just venting.

 

We've been through hell and back together, it is so hard to let it all go.

 

Back to the drawing board.

 

well it looks more like for some reason you want to cling on to this chapter of you life . Think about it .

[Trojan John]

Steadfast, well said. I agree about it bordering on insanity. Heck I'd hazard to say it is smack dab in the middle of insaneville, insanetown, or count insane! Believe me I am not trying to make light of the situation, just venting.

 

We've been through hell and back together, it is so hard to let it all go.

 

Back to the drawing board.

 

In my last toxic relationship, before I ended it, I made up an excel sheet of the pros and cons of the relationship. They were about equal. The relationship was a zero net gain and not worth continuing. It's an enlightening exercise; you should try it.

[2.50 a gallon]

W-N stick by you guns, I totally understand where you are coming from.

 

Unlike some who are able to throw a blanket of forgiveness over the whole issue and move on from there, some of us, and this might be a gender issue, as it seems to run mostly with the men, need all of the details and questions answered before they are able to move the rebuilt relationship forward.

 

Those who don't have this need, see it as revisiting and reopening the scab. Those who need the details want to know exactly what we are forgiving them for. And at the same time looking for ways that they can help the relationship move on

 

W-N appears to be one of those who needs all of his questions answered. And believe me he has a long list. And once answered he will have to have them answered over and over again. It is just the nature of the beast.

 

The problem is that most WW think that the details will only deepen his hurt, and make make matters worse, so they hold back most of the details, but eventually with time, as he continues to question more and more details come to light, and each new revatelation takes him back to d-day. What he needs is the whole story now, so he can digest it and begin the healing prosess.

 

Other than the affair she lied to him. Notice how he uses the word trust. Trust is what he is looking for. He is looking for honesty, and he will continue to need this honesty everyday so that he can begin to trust her again.

 

Yes, technically he had a revenge affair. But the only reason that I can now classify it as an RA is because, he changed his mind and decided to give his affair wrecked marriage a second chance.

 

In my mind the second that his wife stepped over the line and broke her vows, their marriage vows were null and voided. The marriage was over. And in his case he at first chose to move on in his life exploring a new and so far affair free relationship with another woman. That was his choice.

 

As he pointed out, he did not lie, and was up front about what his plans were. I repeat he never lied

 

W-N, I am in your corner.

Edited November 10, 2010 by 2.50 a gallon

[What_Next]

2.50 a gallon you have pegged things very well. I appreciate your post.

 

Yes I need those details, and as has been mentioned here I accept that when I ask those questions I had better be prepared for the answers and I am more than ready.

 

I 100% agree, I am searching out trust, I am searching out honesty, I am searching out integrity. I am searching for ways to rebuild those because that are all non-existant in our marriage. In fact the trust aspect was never really there to begin with.

 

I am going to continue to ask the questions I want to ask, I will continue to ask them again and again if I feel I need to. Some day I know that I will stop asking them and when that day comes we can leave this behind us.

 

I will not be just flipping a switch and saying it is in the past though, it will be a process of healing and if she choses not to participate then the consequences will be severe and swift.

 

You can term what I did as a revenge affair, heck label it any way you see fit, for me at the time it was survival, an afformation that I could attract another I guess. Not sure, that in time might reveal itself as well.

[Cedarman]

WN - I can completely understand what you're going through because I went through (or am going through) the same thing.

 

I hate the trickle truthing because eventually it will all come out. OR, if it doesn't all come out then it will be like a festering wound - and it's impossible to rebuild a solid relationship on a shaky foundation.

 

In my case, my wife tried trickle truthing and we'd have this roller coaster where we would go back to square one (or below square one) when more details emerged. I hated this because it wasn't going anywhere - except separation - so we had a confrontation where we finally agreed to be 100% honest (I still have lingering doubts but that's what happens when your trust is broken).

 

I still do not fully trust my wife - but she is doing her best to earn back this trust. We still have arguments about trust, but my wife FINALLY realizes that SHE broke the trust so it's my schedule on when I trust her.

 

The other thing which we agreed upon was to work on this for a while. We tried doing the "let's try it for another couple weeks" thing - but all that ended up doing was forcing us to walk around like we were on eggshells - artificially trying to avoid arguments or even discussion. We set a longer term time-frame, until Spring. This allows us to talk, even argue. For my wife - she went through the "I love you, but I'm not in love with you" stuff with me last summer, so this allows more time for her to think about us without the fog of her infatuation over her EA. I've noticed a definite improvement - even though we have many off days. So it's still a roller-coaster, but the trend is up.

[goingstrong]

WN,

 

It almost sounds as if you're taking her back just to purge and punish her, and then you will move on.

[FanFan]

WN,

 

It almost sounds as if you're taking her back just to purge and punish her, and then you will move on.

 

Wrong! For what you said to be true, WN would have to enjoy it. He is not enjoying this.