What next

[fltc]

FTC, in all honesty no I am not past that yet. No she is NOT the same person that I thought would never cheat, but she did.

 

No I also do not trust her. I am willing to give her a chance, but I am having a very hard time coming to terms with that.

 

Later you said: "In fact I have told Donewrong that NO ONE will EVER be in a position to hurt me like she did."

 

I've followed this from your very first post in which it seemed to me and many others here that Donewrong was cheating on you and that you refused to recognize it at that time.... I have gradually come to know you a little bit and I can't help but think you're setting yourself up to get hurt again.

 

I hope I'm wrong, I really want you to make this work and not get hurt again and maybe my thoughts are colored too much by my own feelings that no cheater would EVER get a second chance with me but....

 

Be careful, OK?

[Surfer203]

He knows!!!

[debtman]

surfer203, so right. And, for those of us with kids, we also have to take another hit and pay child support (although, we don't have the expense of the kids...other than the 2-3 days/week and weekends that we see them, although, that time that we have them is not taken out of the payment...ugg). And, there's no accounting for how that child support is being used...

 

HOWEVER, we also don't have the added expense of buying things for our wives, health insurance, buying food for 2, buying toilet paper (always AMAZED me how much tp she went through), so, that helps a little.

 

what_next, fltc is right. If your wife doesn't CHANGE as a result of MC, you are setting yourself up for a repeat performance, but, that's the whole point of MC. I think you said that she was also doing individual counseling as well? I think that's KEY to a person being able to examine themselves, outside the relationship to "fix" their own problems. I wish my wife would have been open to either one of those options, but she wasn't, especially after she found her new boyfriend and decided that she didn't have to change for him. So there was no change from her and, since we didn't do MC, there was no change for "us" and things never got fixed and now, the people that are the most affected are the kids. BUT, they're also the ones that have managed to adjust the quickest.

 

During one of the last "discussions" that my stbx and I had, our daughter was sitting in the room coloring and, after we decided that we didn't need to argue anymore, my daughter looked at me and said "Daddy, now I know why you have to move away." Broke my heart, but also let me know that she understands why the change is happening and, hopefully, she will be able to grow up in 2 homes where there isn't that tension.

[Surfer203]

debtman: It's sad when they won't consider therapy for themselves.. they get tied up in the OM and think that life is fine. In actuality they are living with a skewed sense of reality and themselves. There is no breaking them of that pigheadedness. They have to realize on their own.

[debtman]

surfer203, you're so right. They think their problems are "fixed" because they're not issues with the OM...yet. But, if they don't face those problems, they don't fix them, so they will be issues again.

 

Also, one thing they have in common with the OM initially is the trauma from getting over their last relationship and they can "share" that with each other and bond over it...until the previous relationship is wrapped up and it's time for them to leave it behind and then there's one less thing they "share."

 

I found a paragraph when Googling "rebound relationship" that hit home:

"Usually, both participants in a rebound relationship are completely blind to obvious evidence that the two of them are actually incompatible. The glue that holds the two of them together is along the lines of the phrase 'Anything is better than being alone.'"

 

Part of me hopes my wife has really found the "perfect" person for her in the OM and that buying a house together after knowing each other for 6 months is the right decision, but a larger part of me is afraid of what the kids will have to go through if it doesn't work out.

 

I met her while she was getting divorced from her last husband and, after about 6 months of a LDR with her, she gave me an ultimatum that we move in together or break it off.

[What_Next]

fltc, thank you for your post, I really appreciate it. It is comforting to know that people have been following along. In retrospect yes all the signs were there to tell me she was cheating. Like most that come here we have NO IDEA what those signs are even when they are staring us right in the face.

 

She is (was) in IC. I am not 100% sure what status it is now though. I will be sure to ask that today during MC. I'll be honest and say I hold little stock in MC though. I think it is a bunch of bulls__t. I just don't have any faith in it.

 

Is it possible that she cheats again? Honestly, yes I think there is. Then again it is possible that I cheat, although highly unlikely.

 

I do believe she is 100% remorseful for what she has done. I don't necessarily believe she has truely gotten to the bottom of why she did what she did though.

 

Cost wise and money wise, honestly I could care less. That never really mattered to me. I make enough to survive, with or without her. In fact our finances are completely seperated and will always be that way. From now on we'll share bills along a percentage scale. We both have seperate apartments for 1 year as well.

 

We'll see what MC brings tonight I suppose.

[Darth Vader]

I appreciate your thoughts What_Next.. this really has proven to be the most difficult thing I have had to face in my whole life. I am with you though, I will NEVER trust some on blindly again. There will always be doubt. I have learned that to never let a woman walk on me, tell me what to do, how to act, dress, look, etc. Those days are over.. and I am feeling stronger and more assertive. I too am filled with all of those emotions, Xmas should bring them out a bit further, but I won't crack. I cried briefly last night because my mother sent my wife a sappy email - I told her to STOP IT!!! It does not help.. I was crying more for my Mom than for myself.

 

What_Next: Hope MC goes well. Keep at it. I really appreciate all of your help and comments over the past month or so.. it is truly helpful and helps to know others are dealing with the same BS as me.

 

 

Surfer, Did you tell your family about your wife's affair? If you haven't now might be the time to inform them, because they're gonna want to know why you feel this way.

[Surfer203]

Darth: Oh yeah.. EVERYONE close to us knows. My family, her family, close friends. I still have not told extended relatives or distant friends. The time will come eventually, once we are divorced maybe. I came clean with family right after it happened, I needed support and they stepped up. Now, my relationship with my parents and brothers is stronger than ever. I have learned how important it is to keep that bond strong and I will never ever take it for granted.

[Darth Vader]

surfer203, so right. And, for those of us with kids, we also have to take another hit and pay child support (although, we don't have the expense of the kids...other than the 2-3 days/week and weekends that we see them, although, that time that we have them is not taken out of the payment...ugg). And, there's no accounting for how that child support is being used...

 

HOWEVER, we also don't have the added expense of buying things for our wives, health insurance, buying food for 2, buying toilet paper (always AMAZED me how much tp she went through), so, that helps a little.

 

what_next, fltc is right. If your wife doesn't CHANGE as a result of MC, you are setting yourself up for a repeat performance, but, that's the whole point of MC. I think you said that she was also doing individual counseling as well? I think that's KEY to a person being able to examine themselves, outside the relationship to "fix" their own problems. I wish my wife would have been open to either one of those options, but she wasn't, especially after she found her new boyfriend and decided that she didn't have to change for him. So there was no change from her and, since we didn't do MC, there was no change for "us" and things never got fixed and now, the people that are the most affected are the kids. BUT, they're also the ones that have managed to adjust the quickest.

 

During one of the last "discussions" that my stbx and I had, our daughter was sitting in the room coloring and, after we decided that we didn't need to argue anymore, my daughter looked at me and said "Daddy, now I know why you have to move away." Broke my heart, but also let me know that she understands why the change is happening and, hopefully, she will be able to grow up in 2 homes where there isn't that tension.

 

 

Debtman, I thought you said you didn't have to pay child support, and I thought you said that you got custody of the children..... Or is that someone else?

[debtman]

Darth,

Must be someone else. She runs her online business from home and I work a full-time job, so, at least until our youngest is in school full-time, she gets primary custody and I pay $1k/mo. child support.

She's living in the marital home right now with the kids while I moved in with my parents. The separation agreement should be finalized next Friday and the divorce will be final beginning of Jan. and she has to move out of the house May 1 and I get the house back. Her bf is moving in with her Feb. 1 (rent free) so they can try living together for a few months before they buy a house together. Can't be too bitter though, because she's willing to stay there for a few months, the child support will go to the mortgage, so I'll be saving $ every month they're in there. I have to put a toilet in during Jan. so his kids will have an extra bathroom to use when they come to visit on the weekends, but, I wanted a toilet in eventually and she's going to cover the materials...gritting my teeth, biting my tongue and bearing it for the sake of the kids and to avoid paying lawyers...knowing that it will all be over soon and I can move on with my life...

[Darth Vader]

Darth,

Must be someone else. She runs her online business from home and I work a full-time job, so, at least until our youngest is in school full-time, she gets primary custody and I pay $1k/mo. child support.

She's living in the marital home right now with the kids while I moved in with my parents. The separation agreement should be finalized next Friday and the divorce will be final beginning of Jan. and she has to move out of the house May 1 and I get the house back. Her bf is moving in with her Feb. 1 (rent free) so they can try living together for a few months before they buy a house together. Can't be too bitter though, because she's willing to stay there for a few months, the child support will go to the mortgage, so I'll be saving $ every month they're in there. I have to put a toilet in during Jan. so his kids will have an extra bathroom to use when they come to visit on the weekends, but, I wanted a toilet in eventually and she's going to cover the materials...gritting my teeth, biting my tongue and bearing it for the sake of the kids and to avoid paying lawyers...knowing that it will all be over soon and I can move on with my life...

 

Yeah, had to be someone else, soo many people, so little time! I hope this deal is etched in stone, otherwise she may wish to alter the deal!

[tojaz]

She is (was) in IC. I am not 100% sure what status it is now though. I will be sure to ask that today during MC. I'll be honest and say I hold little stock in MC though. I think it is a bunch of bulls__t. I just don't have any faith in it.

 

Is it possible that she cheats again? Honestly, yes I think there is. Then again it is possible that I cheat, although highly unlikely.

 

I do believe she is 100% remorseful for what she has done. I don't necessarily believe she has truely gotten to the bottom of why she did what she did though.

 

Cost wise and money wise, honestly I could care less. That never really mattered to me. I make enough to survive, with or without her. In fact our finances are completely seperated and will always be that way. From now on we'll share bills along a percentage scale. We both have seperate apartments for 1 year as well.

 

We'll see what MC brings tonight I suppose.

 

W_N MC is pretty much what you have been doing on this board, except with both sides of the story. It works as well as you let it. Good luck.

 

TOJAZ

[debtman]

Darth,

Not etched yet. We've got one more mediation session on the 17th, next Friday, then everything will get written up, signed and legally binding. I asked the mediator about the enforceability of the settlement deal and she said that as of May 1, the house will be entirely mine and I can take legal action to remove them if it comes to that...hopefully it won't and they'll be long gone by then.

4 months, 22 days...but who's counting?

[What_Next]

W_N MC is pretty much what you have been doing on this board, except with both sides of the story. It works as well as you let it. Good luck.

 

TOJAZ

 

Well at least here the cost is more bearable

 

The session was "meh". Really nothing earth shattering nor overtly helpful. Not harmful this time though... The counsilor is going to see me alone, then Donewrong alone in our next 2 sessions.

 

What I did come to a conclusion about was that I am basically at a crossroad now. I have 2 paths in front of me. The divorce path and the reconciliation path. What I really need to do is decide which direction I will commit to. Even though I have decided to give her another chance I don't think I have fully decided to forgive/trust. Now trust will NOT happen overnight, it must be earned. What I don't see is where to begin or even how to begin.

 

Honestly this is much harder than I could have ever imagined. While I admit my part in this bloody mess it seems I am still being torn apart by actions SHE chose to take! At the end of the day I have to say the easier path might just be divorce.

[Surfer203]

What_Next: Crossroads hmm.. tough choice. I don't have that choice so it is easy for me to move towards the divorce. For you though, lots of weighing out has to be done. I wish you the best no matter which way you go with it. You are a good guy from what I can gather and you will be fine either way.

[debtman]

what_next: tough, for sure. Don't jump to make any decisions, give the IC sessions a chance and see what comes up. At least you're already living separately, getting used to the emotions that would come from separating, so you don't have "guess" at what that will feel like. Also, your daughter is adjusted (I'm guessing from your posts) to the living/custody situation.

 

The big question is to you. How much trust do you think you can/should rebuild. How realistic is it that she will REALLY change and not just play along for now until things get complicated again and then jump right back to bad decision making.

 

Only time will tell, but it will take lots of work to get to that place.

 

I had told myself for the past few years that I could put up with anything my wife could dish out for the sake of our kids. I'm looking forward to not having to "put up" with her issues anymore once the divorce is final, she's out of the house and I'm back in. And, I think the kids will benefit from having me as a dad without me feeling frustrated and annoyed by my "short-comings" being constantly pointed out. They already have and I'm already even more appreciative of my time with them.

 

She didn't love me for who I was but for who she thought I could be. I loved her for who she was, but built up lots of resentment for all of the changes she wanted to make to me. Once the emotional turmoil of the current situation passes, I'll be much happier...that I know.

 

Good luck and keep updating!

[2sunny]

Well at least here the cost is more bearable

 

The session was "meh". Really nothing earth shattering nor overtly helpful. Not harmful this time though... The counsilor is going to see me alone, then Donewrong alone in our next 2 sessions.

 

What I did come to a conclusion about was that I am basically at a crossroad now. I have 2 paths in front of me. The divorce path and the reconciliation path. What I really need to do is decide which direction I will commit to. Even though I have decided to give her another chance I don't think I have fully decided to forgive/trust. Now trust will NOT happen overnight, it must be earned. What I don't see is where to begin or even how to begin.

 

Honestly this is much harder than I could have ever imagined. While I admit my part in this bloody mess it seems I am still being torn apart by actions SHE chose to take! At the end of the day I have to say the easier path might just be divorce.

 

what changes are you seeing in her actions? remember that words are empty unless the actions totally support her words.

 

maybe try this for a while... step back (you have your own place, right?) remove yourself for a long while - allow HER to do the work necessary at this point... she has a long haul in front of her. you do your thing and let her do hers... stay focused on your best interest at this juncture.

 

if and when the time is right - then you two can spend time and energy figuring out if it may work - AFTER she DOES what the counselor recommends.

 

stepping away for a while allows you clarity - time to clear your mind from all the crap and chaos. it also allows her time to change. change only comes after she has figured out what got her here... and how she processes it all, and how she finds the "new" and better version of herself before she offers it up to you after change has occurred.

 

it's not an overnight matter. give it time and allow plenty of space... space to allow for growth... IF she's willing/capable.

 

IF you see changes being made... THAT is when you may want to consider stepping back in... but not before SHE has done the necessary work.

[FanFan]

I have a feeling that this is not going to end well.

 

I stick the my feeling I had weeks ago.

[What_Next]

2sunny you have given some sage advice. Yes she has her own place now and I have mine. We are in the same complex so our child can easily go between our places. I share mine with my mother for the next year but she works out of the apartment from Monday-Satutday each week. I have been staying at my place about 60% of the time by myself anyway. I am going to continue to do that.

 

FanFan, right on cue... With a sentence fragment to boot... At least you are consistent. You are certainly entitled to your opinion and honestly I cannot disagree with you.

[Steadfast]

I have 2 paths in front of me. The divorce path and the reconciliation path. What I really need to do is decide which direction I will commit to. Even though I have decided to give her another chance I don't think I have fully decided to forgive/trust. Now trust will NOT happen overnight, it must be earned. What I don't see is where to begin or even how to begin.

Every beginning starts with desire. No desire, no beginning.

 

It seems to me that the process/emotions involved here are off balance. There has to be a mix of feeling/logic to succeed. Love. Just good, old fashioned I miss you can't wait to see you soon love.

 

Is there any romance? No details, just a simple yes or no. How do you feel when you kiss her, or hold her hand? Does she look into your eyes? Does she question what you're wearing or if you need a haircut? Does she ask if you've had a check up recently or how you're feeling? This stuff counts.

 

I can't address the issue of re-gaining trust or fighting the mental pictures, but I can say (and have, quite often here) that if she loved you she'd be there. It seems to me she is. Yes, a royal pain in the ass but if she's there, that means something. It's easy to love when lovable W_N, it's when they are not that true love is tested. Do you love her?

 

I understand if the answer is no. Actions can destroy emotional fiber. Anyone who has been married knows there's far more to a happy marriage than just love. But love counts W_N, more than anything. This board is full of people (me included) whose spouses have left and aren't ever coming back. For many of us it's more than just the person, it's the wasted life...the confusing memories. If my wife would have said "I can't just flush our life down the toilet" I would have melted. Cheating or no cheating. You have a chance...a second chance. No one said this would be easy but most things worth having aren't. Is your head too far up your ass to see this?

 

You're worried she'll do it again. Worried history will repeat itself. She can say no W_N, and do it anyway. She can say she doesn't really know and be the perfect wife for the rest of her life. There are no guarantees. Cheaters don't understand that after the fact their promises aren't worth squat. Maybe ever. All this taken into account; DO YOU LOVE HER?

 

There's got to be some happiness, some joy. I'd look her in the eye and ask; "Why do you want to be with me?" Knowing women (in my limited capacity) I'd wager she'll return the question. I probably would.

 

Like it or not, you are her husband. You are a part of an US W_N. Me is where the rest of are.

Edited December 10, 2010 by Steadfast

[tojaz]

Well at least here the cost is more bearable

 

The session was "meh". Really nothing earth shattering nor overtly helpful. Not harmful this time though... The counsilor is going to see me alone, then Donewrong alone in our next 2 sessions.

 

What I did come to a conclusion about was that I am basically at a crossroad now. I have 2 paths in front of me. The divorce path and the reconciliation path. What I really need to do is decide which direction I will commit to. Even though I have decided to give her another chance I don't think I have fully decided to forgive/trust. Now trust will NOT happen overnight, it must be earned. What I don't see is where to begin or even how to begin.

 

Honestly this is much harder than I could have ever imagined. While I admit my part in this bloody mess it seems I am still being torn apart by actions SHE chose to take! At the end of the day I have to say the easier path might just be divorce.

 

Nothing worthwhile is ever easy my friend. Thats not pointing you in one direction or the other though W_N because neither path is easy, even if it is your decision to make.

 

Your right, trust will not happen overnight, but forgiveness, thats up to you, but that needs to come before anything else. If you cant forgive her (notice I didn't say forgive and forget) then you have already made your decision.

 

TOJAZ

[What_Next]

Tojaz, I realize that nothing worthwhile is easy. Trust, am becoming less and less concerned about that at this point. The fact is I DON'T trust her, not one single bit. She'll have to earn that over the next few months/years. Forgiveness, that's another animal all together. Perhaps though once again I must learn to accept that I don't forgive her as such right now, but in time I may. That's about all I can offer.

 

Steadfast, Romance, honestly no there is not much left for me when I look at her now. Love, yes, a deep caring, yes, but do I desire to romance her and put her up on the pedestal I had before she cheated, no.

 

Take for instance last night, we went skating with our 11 yr old and that was a family activity we used to really enjoy. My wife looked happy and I know for a fact that she did herself up to look good for me. That should have made me feel special right, well it didn't. Then we went to dinner, just my wife and I after. I could not look at her. It was so hard. Every time I did, I had to look away because the images of what she had done (not necessarily the sex, the entire thing encompassing deception, lying etc). I just couldn't look her right in the eye.

 

Now that upset me greatly. Even when I cam back from my business trip just after D-day I could look at her, but I was so angry, my own anger allowed me to look at her and basically see red. I no longer have that anger, but now it is the deep seeded emotion of sadness for having done what she did. I have no momentos of our life in my place, I want no pictures, I don't wear my wedding ring any longer, it is far too painful to see any of it.

 

I am torn and yes I still feel as though I am right in the fork of a crossroad.

[2.50 a gallon]

W-N

 

I understand where you are coming from, the relationship restarted in the basement, and it is going to take time just to work up to the ground level.

 

But you knew this going in, and this is something that you wanted to pursue, so hang in there, it will take time. Others have done it, and I think that you have a good chance of succeeding

[Surfer203]

What_Next: That reminds me.. I need to get rid of the pictures of us around the house, along with moving her clothing and S*** out of my bedroom. Seeing all of it brings it all back.

 

Good luck man, I sense you are struggling with this and that is to be expected. You are a good person for giving Donewrong another chance. They love conquers all.. let's see! In my case, I don't think love stands a chance.

 

Have a good weekend - I will be posting through out probably.

[What_Next]

D-day + 2 when I arrived home after my trip I took all the pictures of us off the wall of our place. They have not been back on the wall since. I ensured Donewrong took all the pictures to her place. I don't want them damaged or anything, I just can't bear to look at them right now.

 

As of yet none of the pictures have been put up at Donewrong's place either. I have asked that she not and she has agreed although I am sure she doesn't like it very much. When all is said and done if she did want them up I'd have no real objection since it is her place after all. It would just serve to ensure I'd want to be there less than I already do.

 

I don't think love conqures all. If I did, she would have never cheated to begin with. That is why when she says she loves me I cringe now. I know this is contested on this board, but I feel as though if you do truly LOVE someone then you'd NEVER EVER be able to cheat, you just couldn't bring yourself to do it.