What next

[What_Next]

A further update to this one. I stewed, thought and in the end I decided I could not stay in the house last night. I could not accept her behavior without explanation. "Girls weekend" or not, in my opinion coming home at 10:00pm on Sunday was simply unacceptable.

 

I packed a bag and when she came in the front door I went out the back and left. I called her to tell her that I had left. I went to a hotel for the night.

 

She called me and we actually SPOKE for the first time in about 1 year. We really talked, openly and honestly and without arguing, fighting or being petty. Most of that came from me, I would not let us go down that route.

 

When we first spoke she said that she was not going to MC. I let her know right away, fine that is her decision, that I'd take the session alone. As we continued to talk and she finally heard my side of things she eventually said she would go. I told her in no uncertain terms that if things don't change (without giving an ultimatum) that I'm done. She understood.

 

Not sure whether in the long run this was wise, but it needed to be done. I don't think she fully grasped the extent of how serious I was until now.

 

I'll let everyone know how the first MC goes tonight.

[imagine]

MC is absolutely no good if she is in an affair.

 

Firstly: Kill the affair fire through exposure. Use a voice recorder to get evidence. Secondly: Do you still want to be married to her. This requires work. I do not recommend the 180 plan but would suggest consideration of the Marriage Builders Plan A.

 

Part of the plan is meeting her needs while not lovebusting. 15 hours a week MINIMUM is required from both parties. You need to learn what her needs are.

Are you willing and is she worth it?

 

Even if she is not, failure is still a viable option!

[What_Next]

Thanks for your post imagine. Right now I do not know there is any affair. I am inclined to think there isn't. Sure leaving for that long on the weekend was not a wise decision on her part, but she says she wanted us to have as little contact as we could before our MC.

 

I will do my own investigation to determine what was going on and I will confront her about it. Not right now though.

 

Thanks for the link the Marriage Builders site. I have been reading it and there is a lot of good information on it. I am going to fill out the emtional needs questionaire and I have asked my wife to do the same.

 

For now we are speaking in email as well, just small, nothing big. Mostly about our daughter.

 

I am both anxious and nervous about the upcoming MC tonight. I don't know what to expect and I am going to just let it happen and see where it goes.

[What_Next]

Well our first MC session is over and I have to say, I am less than thrilled. He does seem like a good guy, but nothing really came out of it. We were all feeling each other out. Normal behavior.

 

Anyway, it started with my STBX answering "Well our marriage is over" when asked "why are you both here?". Great start huh? We went on to discuss various issues with nothing really all that earth shattering. Not that I expected it.

 

I was sort of pressured into accepting another session next Monday and I am NOT happy about it. I initially asked for 2 weeks between sessions. Largely due to the cost.

 

On the way home my STBX seemed upbeat and asked me what I thought. At the time I said little and basically said "I don't know".

 

The only suggestion the MC suggested was a "date". My STBX balked at the idea and I said OK, sure. Anyway, I came home went about my business, my new regiment of exercise. My STBX then asked "well aren't we going to pick a date". I told I was not going to discuss it tonight. Anyway, the conversation went downhill from there and in the end I told her I was not decided if I would attend the session next week.

 

I'm tired, I'm fed up with her B/S. I'm at my end yet again. Heck this Saturday is our 6th wedding anniversary and she actually suggested we pick that day as our "date". Utter silliness.

 

She went off to bed because she is "exhausted". I'm basically ready to throw in the towel.

[tojaz]

What_Next, I'm going to be quick and blunt here. Read your recent posts leading up to MC compared to the ones before.

 

 

Your Sabotaging yourself! When I suggested a break, you let all that anger boil in you and then expressed it in the moving of your things and then moving out. MC had no chance with an attitude like that. Look at the pluses.... You found a way to communicate for awhile, she was upbeat after the MC and tried to talk to you about it..... and you shut HER down.

 

If its going to have a chance, your going to have to give it one, sounds like she is trying.

 

TOJAZ

[Gunny376]

I fought seeking professional help for the last twenty years until I was literally forced to do so ~ either that or lose my job? And as we all know? Jobs of any kind are hard to come by.

 

The AD's (Antidepressants) anxiety drugs have worked wonders for me and has made a 180 in my life for the first time in a long time? I'm a good 90 % plus to being the guy I was before I enlisted into the Marines, got married, separation, infidelity on the wife's part, the divorce, the bankruptcy.

 

My one and only divorce? Was like a nuclear bomb going off in my mental, psychological, emotional, financial life. It was the mental, psychological, emotional, financial equivalent of my own personal hurricane Katrina.

 

Its good that have a physcial fitness routine going ~ a most excellent way of venting the stess your currently are going through.

 

Although not always the case? "Girls Night Out" or "Girls Only Weekend" can be simply that? Or they could be serious red flags.

 

Personally when I get back onto the market? One or more so called GNO a month? I'm putting her to the curb.

[Gunny376]

I should have said more than one or two GNO a month ~ Hell she could have one every week in so long as its not going somewhere like a night club, bar, etc.

 

How about an afternoon out with the girls, or lunch with the girls, or taking a class with the girls......................

 

I wouldn't even have a problem with a GF/wife of mine taking a weekend or weeklong road trip, in so long as she stayed in contact and I knew how to get up with her, and she stayed in touch just to see how I was doing, or what "was up" etc.

 

Her not calling nor staying in contact with the DD? Hugh red flag!

[What_Next]

Gunny, thanks for the reply. The more I reflect I am sure the weekend was just that, a girl's weekend. She can have it. It was the fact that she delayed her return home until after 10:00pm that annoyed me. Like you though, if that's a common thing, then I'm out. We all need our space and time to unwind but with our limited budget and limited time available taking too much time out for "the girls" can be problematic.

 

You are also right about the phyiscal side of things. I rode about 4 miles again tonight (rode HARD) and then walked about 1 mile. Really took the edge off.

 

Tojaz once again you are my ROCK. I owe you. I sat back and relfected a little and realized my reaction did little good. You're right, she is trying in her own way. Luckily enough tonight I did keep my calm, I was not rude or mean spirited or anything. I just said my peace. I went upstairs and apologized, but I let her know my feelings. I told her she came at me too fast with the "date" thing and that doing it on our anniversary was tough and would send mixed signals but I would trust her judgement.

 

I also let her know that with both Father's Day and our anniversary coming on the same weekend that it might be a tough weekend for me. She said she understood. She also accepted my apology and she actually said she did realize she came at me a little fast. Positive. Forward steps.

 

Now IF this is going to work it will take us both, but it will take us both at our best and being honest with each other. Tonight my reaction was honest. However, I did it in such a way as to not fall back into our usual traps.

 

Tojaz, from the bottom of my heart thanks. Ironically enough I had already figured it out before reading your post

 

Gunny, I have read tonnes and tonnes of your posts and you it is obvious your are honest and shoot from the hip, the world needs more of that IMHO.

 

Night everyone.

[tojaz]

Gunny, thanks for the reply. The more I reflect I am sure the weekend was just that, a girl's weekend. She can have it. It was the fact that she delayed her return home until after 10:00pm that annoyed me. Like you though, if that's a common thing, then I'm out. We all need our space and time to unwind but with our limited budget and limited time available taking too much time out for "the girls" can be problematic.

 

You are also right about the phyiscal side of things. I rode about 4 miles again tonight (rode HARD) and then walked about 1 mile. Really took the edge off.

 

Tojaz once again you are my ROCK. I owe you. I sat back and relfected a little and realized my reaction did little good. You're right, she is trying in her own way. Luckily enough tonight I did keep my calm, I was not rude or mean spirited or anything. I just said my peace. I went upstairs and apologized, but I let her know my feelings. I told her she came at me too fast with the "date" thing and that doing it on our anniversary was tough and would send mixed signals but I would trust her judgement.

 

I also let her know that with both Father's Day and our anniversary coming on the same weekend that it might be a tough weekend for me. She said she understood. She also accepted my apology and she actually said she did realize she came at me a little fast. Positive. Forward steps.

 

Now IF this is going to work it will take us both, but it will take us both at our best and being honest with each other. Tonight my reaction was honest. However, I did it in such a way as to not fall back into our usual traps.

 

Tojaz, from the bottom of my heart thanks. Ironically enough I had already figured it out before reading your post

 

Gunny, I have read tonnes and tonnes of your posts and you it is obvious your are honest and shoot from the hip, the world needs more of that IMHO.

 

Night everyone.

 

There are a lot of positives in your post, think about it... She balked at the date to the MC, yet shes in a rush to set a time. You both were honest with your feelings and communicated it well. I know you say you didn't care for MC, but after one session, look at what it has sparked. None of this is going to be easy or comfortable, and im sorry What_Next, but its going to be harder for you then it is for her, because you have lost trust and need to be able to take that leap. Your on the right track though, congrats :bunny:.

 

TOJAZ

[What_Next]

Cheers Tojaz and yes there definitely are positive points to my post. However several thoughts are weighing heavily on me right now.

 

First, we have been living apart under the same roof for over a month. I have moved into the basement. She has continued on her merry way, spending the same, living the same. No sacrifice on her part whatsoever.

 

Secondly, in the past month she has not made one single attempt at either initiating a conversation (whether in person or via email) or saying anything really. I have been the one to encourage it all.

 

What impact is this having on our daugther. She is 11 and she sees all of this. I have spoken to her about it and she says she is OK, but I can't help think she isn't.

 

For now I have to learn how to be seperated but live under the same roof. I wonder if there is a book on the subject so I can get some insight.

[What_Next]

After arriving at work I decided to take a little action. Nothing off the deep end like I have in the past. I sent an email asking my wife to call me.

 

She did and I said that up until this point I've been the only one initiating conversations and trying to at least move forward. I told her I was uncomfortable with that and in my opinion it was a receipe for disaster. I told her I would need for her to at least try to initiate some discussions and for her to bring forth some of the issues that she has to talk about.

 

She agreed and while she did only initially say she would try, it was a positive response. She said she had not because she was afraid of the reaction she might get from me. I told her she would take to take a leap of faith and see what happens.

 

I am not going to push, but nor will I continue to grow apart, and that is what will happen if things continue. We will use the MC as a roadmap but we also must act to fix the marriage outside MC.

 

Does anyone have any thoughts on my chosen action, wise or not?

[tojaz]

Cheers Tojaz and yes there definitely are positive points to my post. However several thoughts are weighing heavily on me right now.

 

First, we have been living apart under the same roof for over a month. I have moved into the basement. She has continued on her merry way, spending the same, living the same. No sacrifice on her part whatsoever.

 

You have not laid any consequences to her actions. She has all the benefits of being married to you, but without any of the responsibility. I'm not saying to be harsh with her, or with hold from her, but doin't make it easier for her to leave either. She is angry now and ignoring many of the good points of being with you, the only way she will acknowledge them, is if they are not there. Instead she is spending as she likes and living as she is accustomed, even driving your truck if I remember correctly. Given the bit of positive from the MC I would not act on this now, but hopefully you can see how it works.

 

Secondly, in the past month she has not made one single attempt at either initiating a conversation (whether in person or via email) or saying anything really. I have been the one to encourage it all.

 

Get used to that, in her eyes your the one that has something to prove. I would keep in mind though, that by your account she asked about setting a time for your date. Seems small, but thats HUGE!

 

What impact is this having on our daugther. She is 11 and she sees all of this. I have spoken to her about it and she says she is OK, but I can't help think she isn't.

 

Well, I do not have kids, so that is a bit of a blind corner for me. I will say that there isn't much you can do other then what your doing now, Talking to her, and keeping her insulated from the drama as much as possible.

 

For now I have to learn how to be seperated but live under the same roof. I wonder if there is a book on the subject so I can get some insight.

 

You dont have to learn how to be seperated under the same roof, YOU don't wan't to be seperated under the same roof. Just keep being cordial with her and keep the advice given in mind. Otherwise, live your life. I'm not aware of any books on that particular subject unfortunately.

 

TOJAZ

[tojaz]

After arriving at work I decided to take a little action. Nothing off the deep end like I have in the past. I sent an email asking my wife to call me.

 

She did and I said that up until this point I've been the only one initiating conversations and trying to at least move forward. I told her I was uncomfortable with that and in my opinion it was a receipe for disaster. I told her I would need for her to at least try to initiate some discussions and for her to bring forth some of the issues that she has to talk about.

 

She agreed and while she did only initially say she would try, it was a positive response. She said she had not because she was afraid of the reaction she might get from me. I told her she would take to take a leap of faith and see what happens.

 

I am not going to push, but nor will I continue to grow apart, and that is what will happen if things continue. We will use the MC as a roadmap but we also must act to fix the marriage outside MC.

 

Does anyone have any thoughts on my chosen action, wise or not?

 

Very good move What_Next, and I love this post, because it is proactive, and well thought out. You sir are learning.

 

I would give one piece of advice though. Relating to this>>> I told her she would take to take a leap of faith and see what happens. <<< Instead let her know that it is safe for her to come to you, that she doesn't need to be afraid of your reaction, thats the only way comfortable communication is going to be achieved, by both of you knowing it is safe to do so.

 

TOJAZ

[What_Next]

Well tonight was VERY tough, but it needed to be done. On my commute from work I went through a very emotional drive, it was hard. I honestly did not want to come home.

 

Anyway, when I did she tried a bunch of small talk, just misc day to day stuff. I finally said that was NOT the point of my phone call. I wanted to start to determine where we were, where we were going and that she was at least making some attempt at forward progress. She struggled with this, and the conversation was tough.

 

We went up and down and all over. She reverted back to her tried and true behavior of just bottling things up, but I would not let that happen. I let her know as non-threatening as I could that if she was not going to work on things I was done. I was NOT going to sit around forever. It upset her. Our daughter came home as the discussion was winding down, but I sent her to upstairs so we could get it done.

 

I left, took a breather, came back and offered my hand to say "OK, you gave me what I needed now I am here to help you, what can I do to reduce your stress?". We went about cleaning, laundry and chatting as we went. We even discussed briefly some household items. It was light, airy and even familiar.

 

We discussed our "date". Last night I had told her that I would leave the logistics up to her, but I set a time, a place and she actually laughed and said "I knew you would do that". I actually asked her on the date, how weird.

 

Overall, this was necessary, I needed her to understand how serious I could be about moving on if need be. I needed her to understand how close we are to the end. She got that message.

 

I set forth a time for us to have coffee in the morning (well tea for me), I want to gauge how she is in the morning to see if this is just a temporary thing for her.

 

A MAJOR step forward and it will put me in the mental mindset I needed to approach the next few days. I required this, it might have even set "us" back a little, but I needed it and sometimes that matters.

 

Tojaz, thank you for offering up your take on things. It does help. I feel as though I can maintain where we are until the next MC.

[Gunny376]

You "freaking rock"

 

You tha' man!

[tojaz]

Way to go! Sounds like you are on the right track What_Next keep doing what your doing and above all BE PATIENT! Sad but true that was where I failed my ex the most. Its not easy and its not going to happen all at once.

 

Good for you man, keep us posted,I'm watching.

 

TOJAZ

[What_Next]

She was reluctant but we did keep our coffee time this morning. We first started with small talk, and that was actually nice.

 

I then at least discussed last night and told her I felt at least somewhat better. I don't think she did because in some way she still feels that all discussion needs to happen at MC. Anyway, it was a short talk, 15 minutes in total, but that's a start.

 

I am going to suggest we try the same thing tomorrow. We'll see how it goes. I believe the biggest realization for her yesterday is that I am not going to wait forever, I am not going to freezeframe my life, I am not willing to just "be". With that being said I am willing to work on things and to allow the MC process to work through.

 

I still feel good this morning and for now that'll do.

[What_Next]

Modovi thanks for the suggestion regarding IC. I personally don't feel I need it at this point. My wife did bring it up yesterday though, a REAL shocker for her to say that. However, the point is moote, we can barely afford MC right now, let alone IC.

 

I'm going to be keeping a close eye on things over the next few days. Like the wise man Tojaz said I will be patient. Patient yes, but I won't be waiting too long.

 

We have our "date" on Saturday and MC on Monday night. I expect things will be different again on Monday.

 

Tonight I will be bringing our finances to bear and showing her the full picture. She has not faced that yet, but she needs to.

[What_Next]

One of the things that I did mention to my wife yesterday was that it would be nice if we actually tried to talk to each other once in a while for no real reason. A simple call during lunch to say hi, nothing behind it. Just to begin to re-connect.

 

I wasn't sure she paid attention, but she actually called me today at lunch. We kept the conversation very light; nothing heavy just quick chat. Probably 10 minutes in length.

 

I'm sure there will be lots more bumps in the road and even setbacks to come, but as long as we both keep our wits about us we should be able to overcome.

 

I'm actually looking forward to Moday's MC. I have a bit of a different tact on things now. I'm also keen to find out her take on things and at least she opens up in the MC.

 

To all those out there that despair use the resources here on LS and the others available to you. Also ask for advice and listen to it. Gunny and Tojaz have given me a great deal of advice thus far and it has genuinely helped.

 

I think the largest factors to us getting even this far are the MC, using strategic peices of the 180, and a little time.

 

We've still a million miles to go, but I think we are both at least willing to try.

 

I'll keep those interested up to date on things as they move along.

[What_Next]

Another day and another set of emotions. Last night my wife and I cooked dinner together, talked and it was very nice. We then washed the dishes etc.

 

I went off for my bike ride and rode HARD for an hour or so. When I came home I was tired. Everyone headed off to bed and I headed to my room downstairs.

 

It was tough again, my mind started playing with me. I kept thinking of Father's Day and thinking that I did not know if I could wake up in the basement alone with my child having to come downstairs to wish me a happy Father's Day. Perhaps I was feeling sorry for myself. I even took to moving things around the room to try and help. It didn't.

 

I feel incredibly down right now and am having trouble working. I keep thinking one of these days on the way home from work I just won't go home and will finally put an end to this and just move.

 

Not sure how to process this today.

[What_Next]

I did come home tonight, but it was as I had expected it might be. Very very hard.

 

My wife did text me about something on the way home and I let her know that I was finding it very hard to want to come home. Maybe I should not be saying these things, but I feel that by both of us spending so many years not saying what we felt it made things worse.

 

When I came home she did come to me and ask me what was wrong. She actually did appear genuinely to care. That was comforting. However, the feelings are still there. As I type this I am having to fight back the urge to pack a bag and go somewhere for the night.

 

I think she honestly wants to try now, but I just don't know. I just am not sure if we will be able to repair the damage that has been done. As I sit here still in the basement I just am beginning to feel that even if she asks me to sleep in the same room as her my answer is likely to be no.

 

Am I losing my mind? Or is what I am going through normal? It seemed that in the early stages I was the one that wanted to fight for all I was worth, but now the shoe seems on the other foot. I just don't know what to make out of it.

 

Or perhaps I should just keep this inside for now and let the next MC happen. It's not normal for me to be indecisive. I normally pick a route and go. I just can't come to grips with a plan.

[tojaz]

I did come home tonight, but it was as I had expected it might be. Very very hard.

 

My wife did text me about something on the way home and I let her know that I was finding it very hard to want to come home. Maybe I should not be saying these things, but I feel that by both of us spending so many years not saying what we felt it made things worse.

 

When I came home she did come to me and ask me what was wrong. She actually did appear genuinely to care. That was comforting. However, the feelings are still there. As I type this I am having to fight back the urge to pack a bag and go somewhere for the night.

 

I think she honestly wants to try now, but I just don't know. I just am not sure if we will be able to repair the damage that has been done. As I sit here still in the basement I just am beginning to feel that even if she asks me to sleep in the same room as her my answer is likely to be no.

 

Am I losing my mind? Or is what I am going through normal? It seemed that in the early stages I was the one that wanted to fight for all I was worth, but now the shoe seems on the other foot. I just don't know what to make out of it.

 

Or perhaps I should just keep this inside for now and let the next MC happen. It's not normal for me to be indecisive. I normally pick a route and go. I just can't come to grips with a plan.

 

Its normal! You've been the one fighting for it and your all fought out. Shes coming to you, thats good. Time to coast a bit and let her carry some of the load. Give her the reins and just try and be receptive, see where shes willing to lead you. You might be surprised.

 

TOJAZ

[What_Next]

Tojaz, thank you for your moral support.

 

Tonight there was another twist and another positive result. My wife took our daugther to a concert near our house. It's an annual music festival. Earlier in the week she told me they would be late (but of course I didn't hear that, since I have troubles listening).

 

I was in contact with her during the concert and when she told me that they would be home around 11:30 I let her know that we would need to discuss that. Of course she took that the wrong way.

 

When they came home my daughter gave me a hug and headed off to bed. My wife hung around in my "cell" and said OK let's discuss it. Things started out negatively and she fell into her old traps. I persisted and told her that my reason for contacting her was to find out if I had indeed not listened and mis-understood the situation.

 

She was taken aback by that. We briefly talked, well I did most of the talking as usual, but it was her coming to me. We ended on a positive note.

 

She is REALLY having a hard time with my new attitude, it is confusing her. I also think the fact that I gave her all she has asked for is a little confusing as well. We are slowly beginning to communicate.

 

It's been an up and down day. Night everyone.

[tojaz]

Great news What_Next! Keep it up your doing great!

 

TOJAZ

[What_Next]

Tonight we had our "date" as suggested by MC. What a disaster. Check out the marriage forum for more on that.

 

I've hit the end of my rope, I told her so. I'm done.

 

I want out of this marriage once and for all. I'll begin the process on Monday.

 

That's it.