What next

[You Go Girl]

At the end of the day I believe she still has trouble with telling the 100% truth. In some strange way I think she believes the more truth comes out the less likely I am to eventually reconcile. What she doesn't realize is that it is quite the opposite.

 

.

 

This is something that exasperated me to NO END.

 

The questions is this:

Do they not realize it, or do they like and get some sort of satisfaction from still having a few secrets? As if they haven't sold out to you completely? As if they still have the upper hand? Or that they are proving that We can't control them?

I'm not sure it's all innocent in nature, this keeping of a few last secrets. I am starting to doubt that.

Those who are honest in nature, wouldn't do this--holding onto a few secrets as if they are gems.

[HopelessinDTW]

This is something that exasperated me to NO END.

 

The questions is this:

Do they not realize it, or do they like and get some sort of satisfaction from still having a few secrets? As if they haven't sold out to you completely? As if they still have the upper hand? Or that they are proving that We can't control them?

I'm not sure it's all innocent in nature, this keeping of a few last secrets. I am starting to doubt that.

Those who are honest in nature, wouldn't do this--holding onto a few secrets as if they are gems.

The more I think about it spouses who are having a MLC have inherent personality disorders. And one of the traits of personality disorders is habitual lying. I really believe this is the way they are wired, and they have been lying ever since we have known them. It's just we don't realize it until it manifests itself as it does in MLC. I have looked back at a number of occurances in my M, and realized that I was more than likely being lied to. But at the time you have so much trust and faith in your partner that you just never see the lie. And you are correct, lying and keeping you in the dark is a way of control, and wanting/needing control over friends/family is also a symptom of a personality disorder.

[2sunny]

if she's been doing some heavy drinking - she may not be capable of having a conscience at this time until she's been away from the alcohol for a while and has done some hard work to get past what drove her to drink to begin with. the pain - she needs to address her pain, and not just cover the pain up with drinking.

 

her bad behavior and no remorse goes along with the actions of an active drinker with a problem.

[What_Next]

2sunny, I think you are mis-informed. I'm not sure where you got the idea she is/was a drinker. About the only one that does drink more than they should around our house is me... Not that it's a problem but I like my beer. She certainly has NO ISSUE WHATSOEVER with drinking. Heavens now. Have you dealt with alcoholism in your past, if so perhaps it colors your perception a little. My father was an alcoholic and I've been around drinking my entire life. In fact I show signs of it, but it is under control and will stay that way. This is no contributing factor in our lives. I do appreciate your post though, as sometimes people do not realize the impact that drinking can have.

 

For her, the reactions over the weekend were largely fueled by jealous rage. Also the realization that my move date is fast approaching. She is in IC now and coping is one of the things she is learning.

 

HopelessinDTW, in my case my EX was not going through a MLC, but the traits are the same. Yes I believe she has been lieing for a long time and in many ways. In fact she has already admitted it's hard for her to tell the lies from the truth. I just wonder whether or not therapy will help that for her.

 

YGG, I know exactly what you are saying. I keep telling her that she MUST come 10000000000% clean about every single thing, but deep down she just does not get it and I don't think she gets it. In fact I am not sure she ever will. I think she believes that as long as she keeps the worst parts hidden or even some parts hidden that she stands a chance. The reality is that until I can truly believe her there is no chance at all.

[2sunny]

i'm sorry if i remembered your history incorrectly... i thought she had drinking bouts out with friends in the past.

[HopelessinDTW]

 

HopelessinDTW, in my case my EX was not going through a MLC, but the traits are the same. Yes I believe she has been lieing for a long time and in many ways. In fact she has already admitted it's hard for her to tell the lies from the truth. I just wonder whether or not therapy will help that for her.

 

 

Therapy will help in as much as she tells the therapist the truth and tells him/her everything.

[HopelessinDTW]

W_N: Now that things have cooled off a bit. Are you considering getting back with your wife....even if it is months from now. Seems like she's trying to do all she can to make things right, but I also know from your previous posts that you were very stern about not getting back with her...just wondering.

[You Go Girl]

 

HopelessinDTW, in my case my EX was not going through a MLC, but the traits are the same. Yes I believe she has been lieing for a long time and in many ways. In fact she has already admitted it's hard for her to tell the lies from the truth. I just wonder whether or not therapy will help that for her.

 

 

Therapy will help in as much as she tells the therapist the truth and tells him/her everything.

 

This--above, in bold.

How in the world can it be difficult to tell the lies from the truth? Are you saying she doesn't know herself what the truth is? That she confuses them with her own lies?

That is know as pathological lying. It is a disorder.

 

A pathological liar would not be able to tell the counselor the truth either.

 

I struggle with the lying issue. I went back and forth so many times trying to understand how my stbx could be so giving, so nurturing, yet LIE so much.

The two don't seem to be able to coexist, the ironic paradox.

Yet, I know, it's a matter of figuring out a puzzle, then it would all fit neatly together. Beyond my ability because that's one PC I can't access, and might not understand mapping the web anyway.

Above I digressed. It is not my responsiblity to understand it. The responsibility lies, or lied, with him to explain it to me. There, you saw digression in action.

[What_Next]

2sunny, no apology necessary. Her girl's weekend was most certainly not a drinking thing, boy how I wish it was .

 

HopelessinDTW, I have not re-considered getting back together with her in the short term no. Most definitely not. In the long term, well I just do not know. How can anyone really? Unless she finds a way to not only repair whatever is in her mind that caused this and show me she deserves my love then no I would not take her back. If she does, then we'll see.

 

I know that I have to heal myself first. Ironcially I carry no bitterness towards woman in general like somewhat that have went through this, in fact quite the opposite. I intend on trusting and loving again. I will use what I have learned to build a solid foundation though. For now I am not rushing into anything. I am going to work on me and work on my relationship with my child.

 

YGG, well I don't think she is that bad. It's just when it comes to her affair and perhaps some of the other things she has done in our marriage then she has trouble determining what lies she told and what she did not. I think in a way that is understandable as she did it for so long.

 

I cannot answer whether or not she will tell the truth in IC, but I suspect she will. Deep down she knows whatever she says in therapy is protected.

[Pipeline010]

wow..just finished reading the entire thing....took me 3 days...even my cheating-trying-to-work-it-out-with-me fiance read some of it with me last night.

 

i wouldn't believe that she is telling 100% of the truth to a counselor either W_N. i'm beginning to believe my cute beautiful lovable fiance that I have loved so much for so long is in actuality a sociopath that has to have everyone like/love her. i believe she would lie to anyone and everyone to make her look attractive.

 

case in point, if i came home today to find her in bed with her effing OM doing it doggy style and I sat down and calmly wrote a letter about how i felt sad about that all of her friends would think i was a jerk for being so mean to her. that's how much control she has over her reality. her father is mad at me for making her turn her phone off to avoid OMs CONSTANT messages.

 

cheaters/liers are sociopaths, they'll lie to anyone.

[What_Next]

Pipeline010, I can imagine it did take a LONG time to read the entire thread. It was quite the journey. In fact some day I am going to go back and re-read the thread myself, it will likely seem like an out of body experience.

 

Right up until Sunday when things got really bad again I thought many times this would be the end of me. It wasn't. I survived.

 

I refuse to go through the rest of my life not being able to trust, I refuse to go through the rest of my life being angry and bitter towards women. In fact I'll open my heart to one again when the time is right.

 

As for her, she says she is learning and growing. She is in IC and appears to be taking it seriously. I still feel deep down she is lieing about some things and she won't ever stop. However, that is not my concern anymore. In 9 days I move out.

[Darth Vader]

Pipeline010, I can imagine it did take a LONG time to read the entire thread. It was quite the journey. In fact some day I am going to go back and re-read the thread myself, it will likely seem like an out of body experience.

 

Right up until Sunday when things got really bad again I thought many times this would be the end of me. It wasn't. I survived.

 

I refuse to go through the rest of my life not being able to trust, I refuse to go through the rest of my life being angry and bitter towards women. In fact I'll open my heart to one again when the time is right.

 

As for her, she says she is learning and growing. She is in IC and appears to be taking it seriously. I still feel deep down she is lieing about some things and she won't ever stop. However, that is not my concern anymore. In 9 days I move out.

 

 

What Next, I think she's covering up the fact that she had the most amazing mind blowing orgasmic sex she ever had riding this OM, but she's afraid of coming clean with you about how good it really was for her, thinking that it would hurt you even more and/or that would be the final nail in the coffin that you'll never take her back, even years later! She may think she loves him, or still loves him. She may still be in contact with her OM from the way she lied about that e-mail address. You realize how easy it is to get another e-mail address, right? My point is, she's stringing you along, I wouldn't wait or waste time on her, she's not worth it!

[What_Next]

Darth, I appreciate your post, but there are some things I'd challenge you on. First, I highly doubt it was highly orgasmic and mind blowing. He was a 23 year old kid. What the heck does he know about pleasing a woman? Good god. In either case I really don't much care anymore. It did matter to me initially, but now, well let's just say it doesn't.

 

She isn't stringing me along at all. How could she be stringing me along? I have no intention of reconciling with her right now, none whatsoever. In the longer term who knows, but I am not thinking about that now.

 

As for contact with the OM, actually yes I believe she is still in contact with him. However, I don't care. It's her choice; she is free to contact whomever she likes at this point. I most definitely do realize how easy it is for her to create another email, heck I do work in IT. In fact I would bet even money she has done so already. Once again, doesn't matter.

 

She is so far deep into her lies my best guess is that she doesn't know which way is up. For now she'll have to go to IC and work on her own demons. She'll do that without me.

 

Believe it or not I will try and be there for her as a friend as much as I can. She is still the mother of my child and my child is the most important thing in my world. I wish her no ill will.

 

As I had said I REFUSE to walk around hating all women and branding them all as cheaters. Nope, won't do it.

[Steadfast]

 

...I think she's covering up the fact that she had the most amazing...

 

 

Darth, I appreciate you taking the time to post, but I sometimes wonder what you're trying to accomplish. Your posts (at least the ones I've read) are always the same; is your intent to anger, or arouse? I can't tell. There are times that these graphic descriptions of intense and/or erotic sex might do more harm than good, and I'm sure it isn't completely accurate.

 

But I have to ask, when isn't sex pleasurable? To the betrayed dealing with feelings of inadequacy this might bring more unwanted pain and heartache. We just don't know. I can say (as a red-blooded, healthy male) that sex with someone you love and respect is the best, but again, that's just me.

 

W_N: In a rare moment of openness my ex once admitted that pure lust played a major role in her actions. I responded by saying it must of been incredible for her to give up everything for. But she's spent the better part of the last year trying to reel me back in (for what, I don't know) but like you it really doesn't matter. It might have been mind blowing but the result -for whatever it's worth- cost her the love of the man she once married.

 

Maybe she cares, maybe she doesn't. But isn't that the point? When we get to the position where _we_ are calling the shots for us, it really doesn't matter. As important as sex is, it's still only part of a good, healthy relationship. Left on its own, it falls far short of providing happiness.

[eamherst14051]

Okay, if we are taking a poll I enjoy Darth's posts. Keep trucking dude.

[Pipeline010]

darth there is a time to be nasty when u need to wake someone up to reality. W_N is already there.

 

the image of your significant other being with someone else is one of the most horrible tragic events to get out of your head; for most of us it will never go anywhere.

 

don't ram that **** down peoples throats for no purpose. it's mean. this is a forum for people with real feelings they are sharing. posts like that make me want to leave here and never come back.

[What_Next]

Darth's post did not upset me. I've been around here long enough and read enough of his posts to see that he was obviously wronged very badly by his SO. His posts show just how jaded he's become towards women. He has every right to think that way.

 

I WILL NOT. Heck no. Life is just too short. I enjoy women, always have. Still will. If you go around acting like that then most women will see it a mile away and run in the opposite direction.

 

The image of her with the OM is indeed implanted firmly in my head. As to whether or not it was the most mind blowing sex she ever had and she is lieing or whether it was terrible as she says it was is of little conequence to me. It's not the quality of the sex that matters. It's the fact that she did it at all. Maybe in her own mind she believes that by telling me it was bad I'd be more likely to take her back but as any of us that have been cheated on is more than aware it makes NO difference at all.

 

FWIW I do think she is in contact with the OM, in fact I suspect she is going to see him tonight. I've even offered up my vehicle for her to take. It's OK, we are seperated and will be divorced, her actions no longer impact our relationship right now. As long as she leaves our child out of it (that she most definitely WILL) it is fine.

 

I wish I could believe she isn't still lieing, but I cannot. Not now. To my mind she's done little to help prove that to me up to this point.

[Darth Vader]

Darth, I appreciate your post, but there are some things I'd challenge you on. First, I highly doubt it was highly orgasmic and mind blowing. He was a 23 year old kid. What the heck does he know about pleasing a woman? Good god. In either case I really don't much care anymore. It did matter to me initially, but now, well let's just say it doesn't.

 

She isn't stringing me along at all. How could she be stringing me along? I have no intention of reconciling with her right now, none whatsoever. In the longer term who knows, but I am not thinking about that now.

 

As for contact with the OM, actually yes I believe she is still in contact with him. However, I don't care. It's her choice; she is free to contact whomever she likes at this point. I most definitely do realize how easy it is for her to create another email, heck I do work in IT. In fact I would bet even money she has done so already. Once again, doesn't matter.

 

She is so far deep into her lies my best guess is that she doesn't know which way is up. For now she'll have to go to IC and work on her own demons. She'll do that without me.

 

Believe it or not I will try and be there for her as a friend as much as I can. She is still the mother of my child and my child is the most important thing in my world. I wish her no ill will.

 

As I had said I REFUSE to walk around hating all women and branding them all as cheaters. Nope, won't do it.

 

 

When I say she's stringing you along, I'm referring to her constant Lying to you about certain things you mentioned here, like a hidden E-mail account, or trying to work on herself. At times you seem a little wavery on the certain Divorce( I can understand this), like you know you need to do it for yourself, however, you seem a little hesitant at times. I don't wish you to be a hater of all women, nope, never said you should. I just don't want you to be sucked back into a deceptive situation like you've been in! You deserve so much better!

[Steadfast]

Darth's post did not upset me. I've been around here long enough and read enough of his posts to see that he was obviously wronged very badly by his SO. His posts show just how jaded he's become towards women. He has every right to think that way.

 

Yep. This is true, and it's how he expresses himself. Note that I didn't tell him what not to post ( I have no right to do that) but simply asked why. If it's his way of dealing, then post away. If someone doesn't like it then don't read them. He gives good advice. He's right. But at some point he'll have to let that go...if, like you said W_N, he wants another relationship.

 

The image of her with the OM is indeed implanted firmly in my head. As to whether or not it was the most mind blowing sex she ever had and she is lieing or whether it was terrible as she says it was is of little conequence to me. It's not the quality of the sex that matters. It's the fact that she did it at all. Maybe in her own mind she believes that by telling me it was bad I'd be more likely to take her back but as any of us that have been cheated on is more than aware it makes NO difference at all.

 

FWIW I do think she is in contact with the OM, in fact I suspect she is going to see him tonight. I've even offered up my vehicle for her to take. It's OK, we are seperated and will be divorced, her actions no longer impact our relationship right now. As long as she leaves our child out of it (that she most definitely WILL) it is fine.

 

I wish I could believe she isn't still lieing, but I cannot. Not now. To my mind she's done little to help prove that to me up to this point.

 

Your actions and attitude are inspirational but if there's any way you could get out of there early, do it. You shouldn't have to deal with that B.S.

 

Crazy twist: my ex is way more interested in my social life than I am in hers. You can't burn what's already burned up. I've spent a little time trying to figure out why...talking it over with YGG and some other posters I respect here. In the end her ambivalence is an issue she'll have to work out on her own. No cheater ever seems comfortable with the price.

[Darth Vader]

Darth, I appreciate you taking the time to post, but I sometimes wonder what you're trying to accomplish. Your posts (at least the ones I've read) are always the same; is your intent to anger, or arouse? I can't tell. There are times that these graphic descriptions of intense and/or erotic sex might do more harm than good, and I'm sure it isn't completely accurate.

 

But I have to ask, when isn't sex pleasurable? To the betrayed dealing with feelings of inadequacy this might bring more unwanted pain and heartache. We just don't know. I can say (as a red-blooded, healthy male) that sex with someone you love and respect is the best, but again, that's just me.

 

W_N: In a rare moment of openness my ex once admitted that pure lust played a major role in her actions. I responded by saying it must of been incredible for her to give up everything for. But she's spent the better part of the last year trying to reel me back in (for what, I don't know) but like you it really doesn't matter. It might have been mind blowing but the result -for whatever it's worth- cost her the love of the man she once married.

 

Maybe she cares, maybe she doesn't. But isn't that the point? When we get to the position where _we_ are calling the shots for us, it really doesn't matter. As important as sex is, it's still only part of a good, healthy relationship. Left on its own, it falls far short of providing happiness.

 

I'm not the only one who utilizes some of the same lines, whatever works!

 

The bolded part above is some of the reason why. So someone doesn't get sucked back in, why remain with someone who obviously doesn't care about another person's well being, whether physically, mentally or emotionally? Sure it's not always completely accurate, but, what person is?

 

Pure lust, yes, translation: they wanted a little strange while their spouse has to remain faithful.

 

When isn't sex pleasureable? Well, I think you know why they keep going back to the lover, rather than the spouse! Therefore the cheater is willing to part with their spouse. Affairs are like a drug, or people say.

[What_Next]

Darth Vader, cheers my friend!! I appreciate you saying I deserve better. There is no doubt that I do right now. As for the divorce, don't kid yourself. I AM 10000000000% divorcing her. That's going to happen. You have sex with another, YOU WILL NOT be my husband. I appreciate your blunt posts, I personally have no issue with brutual honesty.

 

My only question is reconciliation in the longer term. However, that is not even in my radar right now, too many other spinning wheels.

 

Steadfast if I could leave earlier I would. However, it would only serve to make me suffer more and to be honest I've suffered enough. I wish I could say that she is making this easy on me. Well; she isn't. In fact she is making it quite hard on me.

 

I'll hang in there until this coming Friday. I'll be OK. Steadfast I did not start out this journey trying to be an inspiration to anyone, but if anyone that reads this whole bible that I've largely written and they gain some inner peace from it then it's all been worth it.

[Darth Vader]

Yep. This is true, and it's how he expresses himself. Note that I didn't tell him what not to post ( I have no right to do that) but simply asked why. If it's his way of dealing, then post away. If someone doesn't like it then don't read them. He gives good advice. He's right. But at some point he'll have to let that go...if, like you said W_N, he wants another relationship.

 

 

 

Your actions and attitude are inspirational but if there's any way you could get out of there early, do it. You shouldn't have to deal with that B.S.

 

Crazy twist: my ex is way more interested in my social life than I am in hers. You can't burn what's already burned up. I've spent a little time trying to figure out why...talking it over with YGG and some other posters I respect here. In the end her ambivalence is an issue she'll have to work out on her own. No cheater ever seems comfortable with the price.

 

 

The crazy twist as you mention, is the cheater wanting what they can't have. I have to ask, was your Ex controling of you?

[What_Next]

Affairs are like a drug, or people say.

 

 

She said that soooooooo many times after the fact that I got sick and god damned tired of hearing it!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

That's just B/S... Sorry.

 

I know you agree Darth as well. I personally believe that's something cheaters say to just blameshift.

[Darth Vader]

She said that soooooooo many times after the fact that I got sick and god damned tired of hearing it!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

That's just B/S... Sorry.

 

I know you agree Darth as well. I personally believe that's something cheaters say to just blameshift.

 

 

Agreed. Yes they do use that as blameshifting. Affair fog = drug addiction? Perhaps. Still, it's no reason to keep stringing someone along, or cheating on them. Much better ways of handling a situation in a marriage! Like communication with one's spouse, just like in your stich!

[Darth Vader]

Darth Vader, cheers my friend!! I appreciate you saying I deserve better. There is no doubt that I do right now. As for the divorce, don't kid yourself. I AM 10000000000% divorcing her. That's going to happen. You have sex with another, YOU WILL NOT be my husband. I appreciate your blunt posts, I personally have no issue with brutual honesty.

 

You did seem wavery, at times!

 

My only question is reconciliation in the longer term. However, that is not even in my radar right now, too many other spinning wheels.

 

My question as far as reconciliation goes. WHY? You've been hurt enough!

 

 

Steadfast if I could leave earlier I would. However, it would only serve to make me suffer more and to be honest I've suffered enough. I wish I could say that she is making this easy on me. Well; she isn't. In fact she is making it quite hard on me.

 

Exactly my point I was making! How is she making this hard on you now? How can she make it any harder?

 

I'll hang in there until this coming Friday. I'll be OK. Steadfast I did not start out this journey trying to be an inspiration to anyone, but if anyone that reads this whole bible that I've largely written and they gain some inner peace from it then it's all been worth it.

 

We're here for ya!