After 2 years broke NC: interesting result

[pkn06002]

You know what Danis your right in a lot of ways not so right in some.

 

1) Yes this was much easier before when I controlled my emotions and keep them at a certain level. Made a mistake years ago that went past that certain level and now am addicted like you say. When it was sex all the time emotions were easy to control it was after her D-Day and her talking about a future that has caused so many issues for me.

 

2) Love my wife not really, I do care about her but love no. Yes lot of excuses but also the truth as to why I don't leave. Have thought about it for a long just can't bring myself to do it. Yes a coward true but it is what it is.

 

3) Sleep with the OW again? Ah that takes two to do and so far she not giving those types of signals. She does like the contact and is getting something from talking to me that she is not getting at home, but what that is I don't know. She wanted this type of contact before where I wanted more, now maybe we are on a more even footing.

 

4) In general I feel just lonely and the OW does fill that void where no one else seems to want to. If I could fix that I would but I have tried and it got me no where.

 

I just don't know......

[Jilly Bean]

She does like the contact and is getting something from talking to me that she is not getting at home

 

I don't think I agree with that, PK.

 

She got very upset that your name showed up on the charity thing. Why? Because she is trying to protect her marriage, and not have to deal with the drama of explaining to her husband that you work there now.

 

I think her willingness to hide you, and protect her marriage, is very telling.

 

I don't doubt she enjoys talking to you - you do share a history. But, I'm getting the vibe that you are more invested in this than she is.

[pkn06002]

Very much in conflict with what has happened at other times but I don't disagree after what happened today

 

Am I more invested your probably right, do I need to just say screw this and walk away yes again.

 

What I don't understand is if she is protecting her marriage why talk to me? Why tell me she still has feelings for me? I could understand the talking to me but why talk about the past with particular details and comments?

 

I feel like total crap compared to yesterday where everything was the opposite.

Edited June 30, 2010 by pkn06002

[tami-chan]

Well its quite apparent that he still loves his wife & will never leave.

 

Apparent? I am curious, how so? He loves the xOW but convenient to keep the wife. I know how this works. I was in a marriage that was a marriage of convenience. Nothing to it. You live with it, you make the most of it and when the time comes when you are ready to leave, then you leave. It's done all the time. People act as though this is a novel idea...please...

 

I know all of you say that he can't still love his wife if he is doing this to her. But yes he can....just means something is lacking in the marriage.

 

It could also mean, that he is (still) in love with his OW, even when he decides to stay married forever, right?

 

It is only a matter of time before he sleeps with her again.

 

If the xOW will have him back in that capacity again, yes. The OW holds the card.

 

pkn, does all these drama in your life make you feel alive? Like you matter in the grand scheme of things? Because, you know, you can just walk away from one of them ...... and stop the angst.

[pkn06002]

I should've never returned to this job!

 

This is what I was afraid of when I took the job.

 

Unhappy at home, knowing it was a crap shoot with her. Feeling like crap just in general.

 

Thanks for everyone that is posting, with no one in the real world to talk to about this it is awful.

Sad thing is from being here so long I know the answer but it is hard to follow what you know should be done when it effects you directly.

Edited June 30, 2010 by pkn06002

[turnstone]

Your daughter is a great excuse why you can't leave, however I doubt she'll be happy about it when she's grown.

 

Your current behaviour is not only a very bad example to give to your child and does nothing to teach her how to handle conflict, but your excuse for it puts guilt on her shoulders too.

[jj33]

Im sorry about that PKN. You are in a difficult situation and you are not in an unusual situation. People staying in marriages due to the economics of the situation is not a new story. Its been going on for decades.

 

I hope you are able to find some peace with this.

[pkn06002]

Well after sleeping on it, the events of yesterday were a good thing

 

1) I have put way to much emotional energy into thinking of the OW for all this time. I was not this emotional when I was involved with her in the full on affair (chuckle). Being put into place shows where I fit in and how wasted those feelings have been. I am very much in love with the thought of her and what was left unfinished, now realizing that was all just a dream. So found a strange peace with it last night, hopefully that will stay.

 

2) After yesterdays events I have a larger appreciation for how my wife is. Here I am chasing someone that I care for that will not return like while ignoring someone that wants too. So going to change my focus and try yet again, with the hope that this time something sticks. But at some point I will have to call quits on this as well, since a lot of wasted energy goes in this direction as well.

 

3) I am tired of chasing after ghost and visions of happiness that just don't seem to be there. Maybe that is what all relationships are just visions of nothing real.

 

4) turnstone you know what lots of people make the type of comment you did above, I even did when my parents stayed together. But you know what that is all hindsight speaking because no child would choose to see their family broken up and struggling to live. It is all good talking about lessons and morals when you can keep a roof over their heads, keep them in good schools, keep them with clothing etc... But if I ended this marriage now all of those things would change and not for the better. Sorry but guilt of how my child's life would change in that negative direction does keep me in a place where I do not enjoy. My child did not volunteer to be in this family like my wife and I did, so I feel I owe her a good childhood since I helped bring her into all of this.

Edited June 30, 2010 by pkn06002

[Owl]

So it sounds like you're choosing to end the EA with OW, and choosing to try to 'fix' things with your wife?

 

If I read that right, what are you going to CHANGE then?

 

How are you going to make that stick, especially given your job and daily interaction with OW?

 

Sorry if I misunderstood and got off base here...lemme know.

[someday]

In all honestly, one of the biggest lessons I’ve learned in my life is that nothing is free and everything is a trade off of some sort. The question is always “What’s being traded and is it worth it?”

 

You know another reason why I do not cross that line with my friend, because our actions- my actions- would bring pain to his life. I will not do that to him. How, if you love this OW, how can you gamble with the potential pain that this will bring to her? If you all get caught again, she’s going to be in for a terrible time. You know this, yet, it seems that you don’t care.

 

Yes, yes, yes I know that she’s a grown woman who can make her own decisions…just like my friend is a grown man who can make his own decisions….and I’m a grown woman who is making my own decision to NOT cross that line due to all the potential negative fallout that will occur for everyone involved when we are discovered. I’ve no illusions that if I acted on this in a physical way I’d be caught out because I’m a terrible liar.

 

IMO, if you’re going to ‘try’ to work on your marriage you’re wasting your time and your wife’s time too. Either you do or you don’t take actions to make your marriage work. If you half ass your efforts it’s bound to fail. I know this because I’ve been living it for years. I’ve wasted years of our lives because I’ve half assed my efforts. I know now that I need to either be all in or all out.

 

About the impact on the child, I’ve got a friend whose parents divorced after she turned 18 yrs old. She was so thankful when her mom finally kicked her dad out. She hated the fact that her dad cheated on her mom. She hated that they didn’t talk. She hated that she would have to see her mom trying to hide her tears. When they finally divorced she was happy. So, no, not all kids would trade an intact family for a dysfunctional one.

 

I've been thinking about this situation with my friend, the OM...and I think you are right when you say that it's just a dream. What I feel for him is a dream. I've got a real man who loves me and wants to spend his life with me openly and honestly, my husband, and I've got this dream man who says he loves me but has never openly and honestly taken action to show the world that he loves me and wants to spend his life with me. Dream vs. reality.

[kuma]

4) turnstone you know what lots of people make the type of comment you did above, I even did when my parents stayed together. But you know what that is all hindsight speaking because no child would choose to see their family broken up and struggling to live. It is all good talking about lessons and morals when you can keep a roof over their heads, keep them in good schools, keep them with clothing etc... But if I ended this marriage now all of those things would change and not for the better. Sorry but guilt of how my child's life would change in that negative direction does keep me in a place where I do not enjoy. My child did not volunteer to be in this family like my wife and I did, so I feel I owe her a good childhood since I helped bring her into all of this.

 

pkn, it's ok to stay for the kid but be honest with your wife. Tell her you're only staying for your daughter and planning to leave when she turns 18. Your wife can make her own future plan now and she can be prepared when the time comes. It's her life and let her make her own decision.

[danis]

PKN, your very vague about your relationship with your W. Do you fight all the time? Do you do the family functions together or do you pretty much live separate lives.

 

Do you still make love?

 

Tell us more..

[pkn06002]

PKN, your very vague about your relationship with your W. Do you fight all the time? Do you do the family functions together or do you pretty much live separate lives.

 

Do you still make love?

 

Tell us more..

 

I have posted about it multiple times over the years. But sure

 

1) fight sometimes, mostly she fights with your child which I really dislike. Your fights will come out of her fights with our child

 

2) No common hobbies or likes

 

3) Family functions of course

 

4) Make love? I would not call it that its just sex no emotional connection for me at all

 

5) I am far from her first priority in life.

 

We have talked about it we are good parents but not a good couple.

Like I posted earlier she is great in an emergency but once past back to normal.

 

Am I perfect far from it, but I do try to make my partner happy. You know that whole idea of you get back what you give. Not so much with her after we had a child and she hit menopause.

[BB07]

PK........I've been catching up on the last couple of days of posts. You know what I think........I think your excuses are BS. I think you are paralyzed with your fear. And......I also think you are very disappointed that your OW doesn't want to pursue more with you. I have a feeling that if she did want more, that you would be here saying the same things, just with a different spin on it. I think she knows this about you from prior experience and I think she knows that if she allows herself to get in deep with you that nothing will change.

 

Change is hard......PK, you have to sacrifice, make compromises, give up some things. It's a risk........there isn't any way of knowing if what is on the other side is better or not, but you have to decide that you just have to know or that you can live with not knowing. Which is it?

 

[September]

PK, not everyone here wants to have a go at you. How are you dealing lately with your issues, has anything changed?

[Owl]

I have posted about it multiple times over the years. But sure

 

1) fight sometimes, mostly she fights with your child which I really dislike. Your fights will come out of her fights with our child

 

2) No common hobbies or likes

 

3) Family functions of course

 

4) Make love? I would not call it that its just sex no emotional connection for me at all

 

5) I am far from her first priority in life.

 

We have talked about it we are good parents but not a good couple.

Like I posted earlier she is great in an emergency but once past back to normal.

 

Am I perfect far from it, but I do try to make my partner happy. You know that whole idea of you get back what you give. Not so much with her after we had a child and she hit menopause.

 

I know that you've talked to her about making changes.

 

What have you done (besides the EA) to attempt to MAKE changes?

 

And I'm sure you've answered the questions before my friend...I just can't recall your story. Have you INSISTED that you and your wife go to MC? Have you attempted to bridge the gap between the two of you? You know...finding hobbies and/or subjects in common, improving communication between you, working with her in MC/IC to help her see why you need to be a priority, etc...?

 

What have you DONE to make changes? Does she clearly understand how desperately these changes need to be made, and what's likely to happen if she doesn't work with you to make them??

[pkn06002]

Well bit of an update on this since I have not commented back for a while.

 

Those of you that said this could not work are both right and wrong.

 

We continue to talk and go to lunch yes things did start to head back towards a PA. Held hands and kissed once but it stopped at that point.

 

(following information if from talking)

 

The reaction those events caused were interesting that weekend when we could not talk. We both became very nasty people to be around, which neither of us really wants. We have lives that don't include us which need to be peaceful and happy. Romantic connection does not allow that to happen.

 

We both do love each other and would like to be together but wants vs. what is right are two different things. Interesting by the fact we both do not want another affair. Yes another affair would be easy, the time, ability and desire is there.

 

So a weird friendship is taking root that is something more than normal friendship but less than a romantic relationship. We do talk about the past we enjoy the present. Yes we skate the line of more. But again if the path ever gets taken I want it be a real relationship, she feels the same.

 

She is staying in her marriage because she wants to (I asked). I am not sure what I am going to do with mine. I have no interest in trying to force her out of her marriage and I would not leave mine for her.

 

But I do love this woman and will carry thoughts of her with me for the rest of my life. It is a very different thing loving someone like this knowing they feel the same but OK with the idea of not being together.

Edited July 31, 2010 by pkn06002

[whichwayisup]

So, it's an EA and every now and then you two will have afew passionate kisses, and then back off of eachother.. It'll keep happening over and over again, until you two get caught or confess to your spouses.

 

You two are FEEDING feelings and allowing them to grow, which in the long run already has and will continue to make each of you detach from your spouses. What you feel for your OW/friend is going to kill off intimate feelings, both emotional and sexual towards your wife. And she will towards her husband.. Only a matter of time.

 

Sadly, when this does blow up one day, each of you will have noone to blame but yourselves.

[pkn06002]

So, it's an EA and every now and then you two will have afew passionate kisses, and then back off of eachother.. It'll keep happening over and over again, until you two get caught or confess to your spouses.

 

You two are FEEDING feelings and allowing them to grow, which in the long run already has and will continue to make each of you detach from your spouses. What you feel for your OW/friend is going to kill off intimate feelings, both emotional and sexual towards your wife. And she will towards her husband.. Only a matter of time.

 

Sadly, when this does blow up one day, each of you will have noone to blame but yourselves.

 

Yes it is an EA a very intense one, no argument there. Even brought that up in our discussion. But there are no long term plans here, but then again there were not before either and that lasted over 3 years.

 

What you list as an affect on my relationship with my wife was already there. Has been for a long time, wife and I have been discussing things like this recently.

[jj33]

PKN you know I love you but you are looking at an oncoming train and saying its not going that fast, I can jump off the tracks before it hits me.

 

AND youre taking photos for us on your cell as it approaches (how kind)

 

Look my friend at the progression.

 

Should we speak. Can we be friends nothing will happen.

 

So you look you talk you speak you laugh, you lunch and...

 

THEN YOU KISS

 

That is a bit of a PA not an EA wouldnt you say.

 

Next thing you know the physical will progress little by little and as you are not the type to give us the intimate details (we only went to 2nd base etc) you will go bill clinton on us (I didnt have sex with that woman).

 

Wake up babe. You are in dangerous waters.

 

WHAT DO YOU WANT.

 

Are you sure you dont WANT to be caught so you dont have to make a decision?

 

Would this woman want a future with you if your marriage ended?

 

Be careful.

[pkn06002]

I can tell you what I want is this particular woman in my life in a open and honest way everyday. But that is not realistic it is more of a dream.

 

Would this woman want a relationship if our marriages ended I like to think she would.

 

But what can I get that will make me happy, that is a different question. One where real life intrudes and wants vs. needs happen. But I can say my marriage is not a till death do you part one. I am also not in a hurry to not see my child everyday let alone be poor.

 

So I do hope in the future I can find that which will make me happy.

Edited July 31, 2010 by pkn06002

[BB07]

pkn......you aren't going to like what I have to say, but here goes anyway.

 

All your excuses and reasons....are simply bull****e. All it comes down to is your cowardice.

 

Grow a set.....either leave your marriage and have a real relationship with this woman if she is available or do something to fix your marriage.

 

All you are doing is playing both ends, because you are selfish.

[pkn06002]

pkn......you aren't going to like what I have to say, but here goes anyway.

 

All your excuses and reasons....are simply bull****e. All it comes down to is your cowardice.

 

Grow a set.....either leave your marriage and have a real relationship with this woman if she is available or do something to fix your marriage.

 

All you are doing is playing both ends, because you are selfish.

 

Being heckled into a decision will not work, have had that done to me before and now it is water off a ducks back.

 

Not in a hurry to not see my child everyday, not in a hurry to be poor. Don't have the energy to "fix" my marriage. I have tried 3 times now to "fix" things without my wifes help but now she wants us to work together to "fix" things. What caused the desire to want to try a letter by me to her after reconnecting with the OW and remembering what I had with her.

 

Selfish sure, why not. I do everything for everyone else why not take something that makes me happy? Oh wait thats right love is all about actions and self sacrifice well by that definition I love my wife to bad I don't feel it.

[whichwayisup]

Yes it is an EA a very intense one, no argument there. Even brought that up in our discussion. But there are no long term plans here, but then again there were not before either and that lasted over 3 years.

 

What you list as an affect on my relationship with my wife was already there. Has been for a long time, wife and I have been discussing things like this recently.

 

Then let your wife go...Go be with the MW as much as you want to, but let your wife go. It's so cruel, selfish and unfair what you're doing to your wife. She's under the impression that you and the exMW are NOT in contact. She (your wife) built up trust and faith in you, when the A ended. She deserves better than what you're able to give her.

 

Tell your wife you and the MW are kind of back together, having an EA. Let your wife decide if she wants to stay married to you. Who knows, maybe she'll agree to an open marriage, keep the benefits of staying together, but each of you can live separate lives outside of the house. To continue on as things are, you have your cake and eat it too, is shi.tty to your wife.

[BB07]

Being heckled into a decision will not work, have had that done to me before and now it is water off a ducks back.

 

Not in a hurry to not see my child everyday, not in a hurry to be poor. Don't have the energy to "fix" my marriage. I have tried 3 times now to "fix" things without my wifes help but now she wants us to work together to "fix" things. What caused the desire to want to try a letter by me to her after reconnecting with the OW and remembering what I had with her.

 

Selfish sure, why not. I do everything for everyone else why not take something that makes me happy? Oh wait thats right love is all about actions and self sacrifice well by that definition I love my wife to bad I don't feel it.

 

Heckled......ha ha. I stand by what I said.....every word of it. You just proved your selfishness even more and your lack of gonads. What gives you the right to lie and cheat on your wife, just so you won't have to give up anything? What an entitled attitude you have.

 

You better start growing you a set, because you are going to need them even more when it all blows up in your face and it will. You will deserve it.