Can you REALLY love your spouse, without a sexual relationship?

[Toodamnpragmatic]

XXOO,

You are truly a giver. That is an incredible trait in a mate.

 

OK - I would give her permission - but - full disclaimer - even thinking about it makes me feel sick. And I really am not a jealous guy. I haven't had a "jealous moment" with her ever. But that would be REALLY hard. Still - I would do it for her, I would just pray she didn't leave me.

 

Like you - I agree that being given permission to go outside - might be enough by itself for me to "not" go outside. Like you - the offer would mean a LOT to me - maybe enough. Probably depends on the exact situation.

 

Sex is a lot of touching, sucking, fondling and lips and tongues. As a male we can do all that to ensure our spouses "happiness" for 20-30 minutes a week???? Can't we???? Oh yes, there's those blue pills too????;) Sounds like a very small sacrifice to make.....

 

This is why this thread is so hard to follow.... Should really be pretty easy to do what is necessary to ensure your spouse's happiness (now of course if they need it 15X's a week!!!!) that could be considered a chore.....

Edited June 7, 2010 by Toodamnpragmatic

[mem11363]

Schro,

Was your wife every highly sexual with you?

 

 

 

 

Thank you.

 

My situation may not exactly be sexless, but I would say it is without intimacy. I feel trapped. I am a 25 year old male with a healthy appetite for sex, with a beautiful wife, who I am very attracted to physically. Like I stated earlier, sometimes she gives in to my desires, but nearly never has her own, and has been the case for all of the 5 years of our marriage. After trying all sorts of things I heard, or read about, and everything she suggested, and seeing them all fail, I have finally reached the point where I am questioning the love. I don't know if seeking any type of extramarital relationship would really help in my case, I love my wife, and sex is part of that. I don't know that I could really separate the two into loving my wife, and fulfilling the sexual part of our relationship with another person. I have tried with porn, which she resents, and doesn't help me that much either. Though its been a better option than simply going without.

 

I think part of this realization has come about because I used to be able to just look at her, and want to jump on the sack with her. Or a simple conversation, giving her a massage etc.. could lead to that. Now, I don't get those feelings nearly as much unless she is unclothed, or in a provocative suggestive position (which I believe has little to do with love, and mostly lust). I think with this happening to me, I have come to a little more of an understanding of what she is feeling. And to me it seems like the love is being lost. Obviously the situation is self degenerating.

 

I guess I am just looking to see if a recovery can be made from this point. If there is some other thing that could be done to re-ignite the fire after all this time. (please see my other posts before suggesting something like going on dates, helping around the house etc..) Has someone else been in a similar situation? Was love still there?

[mem11363]

TDP,

I will ALWAYS be willing to do that stuff. What if the little blue pill doesn't work and my wife has a NEED for intercourse?

 

That is what xxoo was asking me. And that was my answer. But yes - even if I totally lost my desire I would GLADLY please her regularly to keep her happy. I am certain the reverse is true as I know she has had some time periods where she DID lose her desire for me and still made the effort. Quite a remarkable woman.

 

Sex is a lot of touching, sucking, fondling and lips and tongues. As a male we can do all that to ensure our spouses "happiness" for 20-30 minutes a week???? Can't we???? Oh yes, there's those blue pills too????;) Sounds like a very small sacrifice to make.....

 

This is why this thread is so hard to follow.... Should really be pretty easy to do what is necessary to ensure your spouse's happiness (now of course if they need it 15X's a week!!!!) that could be considered a chore.....

[Toodamnpragmatic]

TDP,

I will ALWAYS be willing to do that stuff. What if the little blue pill doesn't work and my wife has a NEED for intercourse?

 

That is what xxoo was asking me. And that was my answer. But yes - even if I totally lost my desire I would GLADLY please her regularly to keep her happy. I am certain the reverse is true as I know she has had some time periods where she DID lose her desire for me and still made the effort. Quite a remarkable woman.

 

And toys don't do it for her...... then there are pumps too..... Short of it falling or or being cut off the options are available.....;)

[Moanin]

No I am not perfect, but am off now to finish the dishes, get the coffee maker ready for tomorrow morning, do dessert and get ready for the week....:laugh: Heck if need be, I'll listen to whatever my spouse has to say too....

 

Hell, I'd have sex with my husband for just getting the coffee maker ready for the morning! For 10 years he has insisted that he doesn't know how to set-up and program the coffee........

 

For more reasons than the coffee maker, we are a sexless couple.

[mem11363]

But what if her primary desire was to feel desirable, to be desired, physically desired? Because my wife is ummmm fairly martian - you know that whole mars / venus thing.

 

So if my hydraulic system stops working - I think she is going to look at that as me not having "desire" for her. And THAT is something she might want from another. Now her religion prohibits this and she walks the walk. So unless I made it easy for her, I don't think she would. But xxoo is right, I can't have it both ways.

 

Hey XXOO,

In many years of posting - no one has asked me as painful and thought provoking a question as you did. Hats off to you.

 

 

 

And toys don't do it for her...... then there are pumps too..... Short of it falling or or being cut off the options are available.....;)

[xxoo]

XXOO,

You are truly a giver. That is an incredible trait in a mate.

 

OK - I would give her permission - but - full disclaimer - even thinking about it makes me feel sick. And I really am not a jealous guy. I haven't had a "jealous moment" with her ever. But that would be REALLY hard. Still - I would do it for her, I would just pray she didn't leave me.

 

My H is a giver, too. I have no doubt he'd do the same for me, if he eventually found sex too unpleasant to endure (highly unlikely! ).

 

Yes, of course the thought makes me a little nauseaus.....but so does the thought of my H being forced into celibacy. He isn't only "my husband"--he is also an individual that I love deeply. But I hope to never be in this position.....

[schro31185]

Schro,

Was your wife every highly sexual with you?

 

Yes, while we were dating, frequency was about 3 times a week. She would initiate, and I never felt like I went without what I wanted/needed sexually. She also enjoyed foreplay and sexual variety, where now when there is sex, her goal is as quick as possible, and she refuses any type of foreplay I may offer.

[giotto]

Yes, while we were dating, frequency was about 3 times a week. She would initiate, and I never felt like I went without what I wanted/needed sexually. She also enjoyed foreplay and sexual variety, where now when there is sex, her goal is as quick as possible, and she refuses any type of foreplay I may offer.

 

I would suggest you take your specimen back (obviously broken) or find yourself a working one, sir...

[mem11363]

Schro,

Ignoring sex, who is more loving to the other?

- who typically says I love you first? does she always say it back? does it seem genuine or mechanical?

- who initiates hugs/physical contacts the most?

- who suggests spending free time together?

- gift giving?

 

Have you ever tried simply backing off in all the ways above?

 

Continue to be nice, fun, friendly and upbeat but steadily reduce the frequency with which you perform loving acts. And in general spend less time with her. Go the the gym more. When you were dating you were fun and upbeat and friendly but for a long time you NEVER said I love you. STOP with the massages FCS. If she asks you for one, just smile and say - I'm not in the mood tonight. Don't be sarcastic - don't have a mean tone. Just be friendly and firm/assertive. If she pushes just look surprised and hold your ground without getting mad.

 

Good chance at some point she may say "this is about sex isn't it?" And you need to just ignore that comment - it is a cheap shot and not worthy of a response.

 

Personally - I keep the emotional temperature in the house about 10 degrees below my wifes comfort level. When she feels chilly she comes to me and gets as much warmth (non sexual interaction) or heat (sexual interaction) as she wants. I have learned through painful misadventure that SHE likes it that way. Giving her TOO much love makes her not happy and not turned on. I think this is true for most women.

 

 

 

Yes, while we were dating, frequency was about 3 times a week. She would initiate, and I never felt like I went without what I wanted/needed sexually. She also enjoyed foreplay and sexual variety, where now when there is sex, her goal is as quick as possible, and she refuses any type of foreplay I may offer.

[soserious1]

The OP asked the question can you really love your spouse in a sexless marriage?

 

I kind of don't understand the negative comments about those of us who've experienced sexless marriages. I for one feel that my experiences directly relate to the subject.

 

And the answer, barring illness or infirmity that a man has no control over, is a resounding NO! I could not "love" a spouse who denied me sex willingly while expecting me to remain celibate and faithful to him.

 

Btw ,Mem, if a person "turns down the emotional heat" on me I figure they want more distance from me & I respond accordingly by doing less for them, saying less to them, asking them for nothing and in general trying to give them more space.

Edited June 8, 2010 by soserious1

[sally4sara]

I think it is possible to still love your spouse without sex. It would make feeling intimate with them difficult, sure, but its not impossible.

 

I'm thinking of some of my friends' parents. Their father had prostate cancer and lost the ability to have sexual intercourse. For a while there, he had to wear a colostomy bag. But their parents always seemed so in love . Always hugging and kissing, saying sweet things to each other. Very happy family life.

 

They are one of my relationship models. If, Tesla forbid, I had to deal with this in my own marriage, I would hope to weather it the way they have.

[mem11363]

SS1,

I fully recognize that it "sounds" like what a not nice partner does. But what if your partner acts in a delightful and loving way - but just does a little bit LESS of those loving things (in quantity/frequency) than you want.

 

Sure you can withdraw. If you want more hugs from your partner, you can go sit in the other room. Thing is if you have a partner who simply won't follow you into the other room, but who if approached will always gladly hug you back - what do you think happens? And I always hug her, talk to her, respond warmly when she approaches. I cannot read her mind - I don't know when she wants me to be more loving - so I simply let her ask for what she wants and then I give it to her.

 

I always thought I was the hunter in our marriage. Not so. She is the huntress. She likes the catching me, again and again. And she likes fighting with me - way more than I like fighting with her.

 

As for what "I" want. Well under the hood we have this gender reversal issue that frankly she really isn't even aware of. On many nights she comes home from work we eat a quick dinner, and she does her own thing until bedtime. Then she takes a shower and is ready to connect.

 

Me - I would actually like her to hang out with me for an hour or two as kind of a warm up to connecting. I think of it as "pre foreplay". She often does not do that, and clearly has no need for it. Sexually I don't need it either, it doesn't affect how turned on I get. But it isn't what I want.

 

But I know this much is true, if I insisted she hang out with me as a condition for sex, when she wants to be alone. I would slowly *** up our passion.

 

Her circuit board is wired for a man who acts like a man. So I have a choice - more emotional intimacy for ME at the expense of passion and hot sex for both of us. AND since she doesn't really WANT the extra intimacy, overall she would be less happy. I have made my choice.

 

 

The OP asked the question can you really love your spouse in a sexless marriage?

 

I kind of don't understand the negative comments about those of us who've experienced sexless marriages. I for one feel that my experiences directly relate to the subject.

 

And the answer, barring illness or infirmity that a man has no control over, is a resounding NO! I could not "love" a spouse who denied me sex willingly while expecting me to remain celibate and faithful to him.

 

Btw ,Mem, if a person "turns down the emotional heat" on me I figure they want more distance from me & I respond accordingly by doing less for them, saying less to them, asking them for nothing and in general trying to give them more space.

[soserious1]

I think it is possible to still love your spouse without sex. It would make feeling intimate with them difficult, sure, but its not impossible.

 

I'm thinking of some of my friends' parents. Their father had prostate cancer and lost the ability to have sexual intercourse. For a while there, he had to wear a colostomy bag. But their parents always seemed so in love . Always hugging and kissing, saying sweet things to each other. Very happy family life.

 

They are one of my relationship models. If, Tesla forbid, I had to deal with this in my own marriage, I would hope to weather it the way they have.

 

There's a HUGE difference between a spouse wearing a colostomy bag who can't function sexually and a refuser who "just doesn't feel like tonight" or any other nite for that matter.

[soserious1]

SS1,

I fully recognize that it "sounds" like what a not nice partner does. But what if your partner acts in a delightful and loving way - but just does a little bit LESS of those loving things (in quantity/frequency) than you want.

 

 

My point here is that a man reading your books & following your instructions with ME wouldn't get more of anything besides extra personal space. I follow the cue's that a person sends off & don't pursue anybody who's distancing themselves from me beyond flat out asking them if something is bothering them.My days of following a guy about panting.drooling and begging for more crumbs of his attentions & affections are over.

 

As for myself, I've learned my lesson, a man decides he's "just not in the mood" too many nites without verifiable physical cause, he's history.

If I want a loving sexless relationship I'll get a dog. Put out or get out is the standard now.

Edited June 8, 2010 by soserious1

[sally4sara]

There's a HUGE difference between a spouse wearing a colostomy bag who can't function sexually and a refuser who "just doesn't feel like tonight" or any other nite for that matter.

 

I understand that. The original post was titled "can you REALLY love your spouse, without a sexual relationship. I think you can, but there has to be love in the first place. What you're describing is not a loving relationship with or without sex. You're describing a relationship without love and a lot of selfish manipulations.

 

If we couldn't love someone who didn't give us sex, my friends' parents would have been long ago divorced simply due to the husband's medical inability.

[soserious1]

I understand that. The original post was titled "can you REALLY love your spouse, without a sexual relationship. I think you can, but there has to be love in the first place. What you're describing is not a loving relationship with or without sex. You're describing a relationship without love and a lot of selfish manipulations.

 

If we couldn't love someone who didn't give us sex, my friends' parents would have been long ago divorced simply due to the husband's medical inability.

 

I responded to the question asked.. which was can you have a loving marriage without a sexual relationship and I responded from the POV of a person who's actually been in a sexless marriage.

 

Yes, I have no doubt that a couple can remain in a loving committed relationship even if it means that a higher drive partner will NEVER have sex again for the rest of their lives... however the cause of this condition must be something that's beyond the refusing spouse's control ie: a huge medical problem.

 

Around here we have a lot of folks with normal to high sexual drives being treated like we're abnormal sickies for desiring regular sexual activity with our spouses, we're repeatedly told that sex doesn't matter and that we should take what crumbs we're given and go sit in the corner.

 

A man "just doesn't feel like it?" great, I guess I just don't feel like cooking, cleaning, paying your share of any of our bills or any of the other 1001 things I do for a spouse.

 

You have a problem with me? fine, we hash it out together or in MC, you want to play games and deny me sex but expect me to remain faithful? get out!

Edited June 8, 2010 by soserious1

[mem11363]

SS1,

I have said this before - will say it again - your H was a cruel, selfish bastard.

 

My situation: I am the HD spouse. Well lately the MD spouse. She has always been the LD spouse. And our "compromise" kind of sucked for her because it was basically 90% of the time when I wanted to and she didn't really want to - we DID. Not much of a compromise. Not so good for a marriage long term.

 

In 21 years she has probably approached me a couple hundred times. I have NEVER said no. Not ever.

 

What I do now seems to create desire. This lets us reverse polarity. Instead of her constantly feeling pressured and being anxious about our desire imbalance I have found a pattern that seems to cause her to feel desire. And so once a week she actually directly initiates, and once a week I can tell she would be happy for me to initiate so I do. And the nights she is neutral I do nothing. And the nights she is dead tired/depressed I give her a long massage.

 

Look at it from my point of view. When I set the emotional thermostat just below her comfort level - she can easily and effortlessly raise it. But the few times I have set it too high - by giving her unsolicited long loving looks - she has reacted in a very harsh and negative manner. When someone suddenly gets furious and says in a sharp voice "stop fawning" there is NO MISTAKING their meaning. That has happened to me a couple times. So being too nice creates hostility and being mildly aloof/reserved creates "in love/passion". I am simply responding to a pattern.

 

 

 

My point here is that a man reading your books & following your instructions with ME wouldn't get more of anything besides extra personal space. I follow the cue's that a person sends off & don't pursue anybody who's distancing themselves from me beyond flat out asking them if something is bothering them.My days of following a guy about panting.drooling and begging for more crumbs of his attentions & affections are over.

 

As for myself, I've learned my lesson, a man decides he's "just not in the mood" too many nites without verifiable physical cause, he's history.

If I want a loving sexless relationship I'll get a dog. Put out or get out is the standard now.

[soserious1]

Mem,

 

If your approach works for you and your wife that is wonderful.. for me that approach would fall dead in the water for the following reasons.

 

1. I am amazing self-reliant I don't have a "honey do" list

I pay for all my own stuff, I don't need/want flowers and gifts. I don't require much out of my relationships in terms of goods/services with anybody male or female.

 

2. I keep my own counsel .. in real time I can actually live in the same house with somebody and not speak more than 100 words over the course of a weekend.. and nobody is mad at anybody:) I totally do companionable silences, I don't need a lot of verbal stroking from anybody.

 

3. I'm not into the gossipy/ he said/she said crap that so many women subject their poor husbands to listen to.

 

4. most important, if I figured out that a guy was running a system on me to manipulate my behavioral responses instead

of sitting down and speaking to me like the reasonable human being that I am, his arse would be history.

 

 

Keeping the emotional temp lower in my house would require a guy to live in the yard because quite honestly

I'm low temp by nature and would regard a guy being low temp as normal

 

Oh and if I said I was drop dead tired I'd rather give a quick BJ and skip the long massage, it irritates me to be subject to a lot of touching when I'm that tired.

Edited June 9, 2010 by soserious1

[xxoo]

Look at it from my point of view. When I set the emotional thermostat just below her comfort level - she can easily and effortlessly raise it. But the few times I have set it too high - by giving her unsolicited long loving looks - she has reacted in a very harsh and negative manner. When someone suddenly gets furious and says in a sharp voice "stop fawning" there is NO MISTAKING their meaning. That has happened to me a couple times. So being too nice creates hostility and being mildly aloof/reserved creates "in love/passion". I am simply responding to a pattern.

 

It's possible that your approach is exactly what she desires, but for reasons other than what you've concluded.

 

You view the long, loving looks as emotional warmth. She views it as fawning, which has slightly negative connotations. Maybe she interpreted the looks as insincere, or maybe she felt self-concious.

 

You view aloof as emotionally cool. She may view it as a gift of some needed personal space, and then feel refreshed enough to seek out contact.

 

Generously giving someone the space they need is still emotional warmth.

[soserious1]

It's possible that your approach is exactly what she desires, but for reasons other than what you've concluded.

 

You view the long, loving looks as emotional warmth. She views it as fawning, which has slightly negative connotations. Maybe she interpreted the looks as insincere, or maybe she felt self-concious.

 

You view aloof as emotionally cool. She may view it as a gift of some needed personal space, and then feel refreshed enough to seek out contact.

 

Generously giving someone the space they need is still emotional warmth.

 

The long loving looks might also be coming across as bids for sex, besides, having somebody staring at you feels weird, makes you wonder if you've got spinach caught in your teeth or something.

[mem11363]

One of the long loving looks was in the middle of a 2 week "no sex" situation because she had pelvic inflammation and I had made it totally clear that I felt sorry for her and was totally cool waiting until she felt better. I was going out of my way to be nice - BECAUSE I didn't want her to think I was annoyed/frustrated with her about a lack of sex. It was sincere, no hidden agenda.

 

And ummm - she doesn't like spinach.

 

The long loving looks might also be coming across as bids for sex, besides, having somebody staring at you feels weird, makes you wonder if you've got spinach caught in your teeth or something.

[TaraMaiden]

It's possible that your approach is exactly what she desires, but for reasons other than what you've concluded.

 

You view the long, loving looks as emotional warmth. She views it as fawning, which has slightly negative connotations. Maybe she interpreted the looks as insincere, or maybe she felt self-concious.

 

You view aloof as emotionally cool. She may view it as a gift of some needed personal space, and then feel refreshed enough to seek out contact.

 

Generously giving someone the space they need is still emotional warmth.

 

You view... she views.... this simply smacks of hypothesis, assumption and poor communication. I would hope that people in a situation where looks say a lot, are better at verbal expression, otherwise their relationship is in deep trouble. Body language is all very well. the highest proportion of communication is in body language. Unfortunately, it's high on the list of misunderstanding, too.

Which is why we need to be damn good at expressing ourselves verbally.

 

Mem,

 

If your approach works for you and your wife that is wonderful.. for me that approach would fall dead in the water for the following reasons.

 

1. I am amazing self-reliant I don't have a "honey do" list

I pay for all my own stuff, I don't need/want flowers and gifts. I don't require much out of my relationships in terms of goods/services with anybody male or female.

 

2. I keep my own counsel .. in real time I can actually live in the same house with somebody and not speak more than 100 words over the course of a weekend.. and nobody is mad at anybody:) I totally do companionable silences, I don't need a lot of verbal stroking from anybody.

 

3. I'm not into the gossipy/ he said/she said crap that so many women subject their poor husbands to listen to.

 

4. most important, if I figured out that a guy was running a system on me to manipulate my behavioral responses instead

of sitting down and speaking to me like the reasonable human being that I am, his arse would be history.

 

 

Keeping the emotional temp lower in my house would require a guy to live in the yard because quite honestly

I'm low temp by nature and would regard a guy being low temp as normal

 

Oh and if I said I was drop dead tired I'd rather give a quick BJ and skip the long massage, it irritates me to be subject to a lot of touching when I'm that tired.

I mean this with no nastiness, sarcasm or rudeness - but this behaviour is more indicative of a typical, (one might almost say stereotypical!) masculine attitude.

Would you happen to know whether you have high levels of testosterone?

because you're also coming over as extremely defensive and a little hostile, and somewhat aggressively "in your face"......

[xxoo]

One of the long loving looks was in the middle of a 2 week "no sex" situation because she had pelvic inflammation and I had made it totally clear that I felt sorry for her and was totally cool waiting until she felt better. I was going out of my way to be nice - BECAUSE I didn't want her to think I was annoyed/frustrated with her about a lack of sex. It was sincere, no hidden agenda.

 

But she didn't recieve it well. Why not?

 

I doubt it is because she doesn't like to be treated well, or feel loved. More likely she doesn't feel loved by long, loving looks. Maybe, to her, it feels more like sandpaper than the heat lamp you intended.

 

If so, I can kind of relate!

[soserious1]

You view... she views.... this simply smacks of hypothesis, assumption and poor communication. I would hope that people in a situation where looks say a lot, are better at verbal expression, otherwise their relationship is in deep trouble. Body language is all very well. the highest proportion of communication is in body language. Unfortunately, it's high on the list of misunderstanding, too.

Which is why we need to be damn good at expressing ourselves verbally.

 

 

I mean this with no nastiness, sarcasm or rudeness - but this behaviour is more indicative of a typical, (one might almost say stereotypical!) masculine attitude.

Would you happen to know whether you have high levels of testosterone?

because you're also coming over as extremely defensive and a little hostile, and somewhat aggressively "in your face"......

 

I was actually engaging in a conversation with Mem (whom I like) about the reasons his system wouldn't work on me. Bullet point conversation is clear & to the point.

 

My hormone levels are just fine, I have always been a person with a low emotional temp and am comfortable

in that state of being.

 

As for the rest, if my saying that I will never again tolerate being in a low sex-no sex relationship without good reason and would immediately confront my partner and end the situation over it is hostile, I say good for me! Being the peacemaker, struggling to rationalize why my very modest

needs couldn't be met within my marriage cost me years of pain and thousands of dollars. It won't happen again.