Can love be promised?

[White Flower]

I borrowed a couple of quotes from November-Rain's thread which seems to be going off topic:

 

Love CAN NOT be promised. You CAN NOT promise to love someone in the future. You CAN say I love you today.

 

You can't. I can.

 

I've been thinking about this topic for quite some time. I adamently believe love can be promised IF and only if we are mature, know ourselves, and have the ability to stay true to something as we evolve in other areas. I adamantly don't believe love can be promised otherwise.

 

Just a small example. MM chose to marry at a very young age. He's pretty sure he fell out of love with his W some time before his wedding day but went through on his promise to M her. He has been faking it for nearly 40 years now. He kept his promise to remain M, but not in loving her.

 

Another example. I loved my exH dearly and did everything in my power to ensure love would survive. I supported him emotionally and financially, I bought books on Rs, I got us into counseling. When I recognized he was never going to do the OTHER work to support love, my love for him eventually died.

 

But we both M young, both around the age of 21. Now that we're mature, know ourselves very well, physically, mentally, and emotionally, we know what our needs are and know how to sustain Rs that are very dear to us.

 

I have often suggested that love cannot be promised, but if that is true, how can MM trust that I will always love him? Why would he leave his W if I cannot promise I will love him forever or at least until death do us part?

 

Since my A I have pondered this 'promise to love forever issue' and I think I've finally come to a conclusion: I know I love him already and I know he loves me. This is a fact, not a promise. We can only promise to try to work things out, try to communicate, be there for each other, and do the OTHER things that help to keep love alive. I can promise those things, and if he keeps his end of the deal, then and only then can we promise to love.

 

Any thoughts?

[Owl]

I borrowed a couple of quotes from November-Rain's thread which seems to be going off topic:

 

 

 

 

 

I've been thinking about this topic for quite some time. I adamently believe love can be promised IF and only if we are mature, know ourselves, and have the ability to stay true to something as we evolve in other areas. I adamantly don't believe love can be promised otherwise.

 

Just a small example. MM chose to marry at a very young age. He's pretty sure he fell out of love with his W some time before his wedding day but went through on his promise to M her. He has been faking it for nearly 40 years now. He kept his promise to remain M, but not in loving her.

 

Another example. I loved my exH dearly and did everything in my power to ensure love would survive. I supported him emotionally and financially, I bought books on Rs, I got us into counseling. When I recognized he was never going to do the OTHER work to support love, my love for him eventually died.

 

But we both M young, both around the age of 21. Now that we're mature, know ourselves very well, physically, mentally, and emotionally, we know what our needs are and know how to sustain Rs that are very dear to us.

 

I have often suggested that love cannot be promised, but if that is true, how can MM trust that I will always love him? Why would he leave his W if I cannot promise I will love him forever or at least until death do us part?

 

Since my A I have pondered this 'promise to love forever issue' and I think I've finally come to a conclusion: I know I love him already and I know he loves me. This is a fact, not a promise. We can only promise to try to work things out, try to communicate, be there for each other, and do the OTHER things that help to keep love alive. I can promise those things, and if he keeps his end of the deal, then and only then can we promise to love.

 

Any thoughts?

 

I'd say that what you've promised isn't "promising love". But you've promised to hold up your end of the relationship.

 

I'd go so far as to say that you've promised some commitment to the relationship, and putting every effort into it.

 

What you promised doesn't sound any different to me than the expectations anyone TRULY has when they take their marriage vows.

 

And that's where the break is...because the people claiming you can't "promise love" are saying this is why the vows were broken...why they SHOULD HAVE BEEN BROKEN...as a result of the affair.

 

You see...I get what you're saying about people changing over time.

 

But that' still doesn't 'justify' infidelity...it doesn't justify the UNILATERAL DECISION to violate those vows that an affair represents.

 

If things change...you JOINTLY re-negotiate or agree to end the contract.

 

See where I view the difference here?

[Silly_Girl]

I don't think we consciously choose to love or not love, so therefore I don't think it can be promised. There are people who end up not loving their own children, because of how they behave towards them, and that to me is the most enduring and selfless love of all, yet even that is not guaranteed.

 

I think you are right that one can promise to try various things, I have had couples counselling and been supportive, and forgiven and all sorts, because I had committed to the relationship. But there came a time when I could not continue and did not love him any more. I wanted to love him but could not.

 

 

You can promise to be faithful, and loyal, and honest and all sorts of things, which I was despite not receiving those courtesies back. Not cheating, not lying, you can control those things and do them, or not do them. Loving someone is different. And the promise to love always comes with the caveat of 'if you do not cheat/lie/abuse... etc etc', and you can't prescribe how your lover will behave, or what may happen in their life.

[NoIDidn't]

Yes, love can be promised. Its also been commanded - biblically speaking. If it can't be promised, why then, would it be commanded?

 

Love is an action, a verb - not a feeling.

 

The thing is that people don't always keep their promises. The item promised isn't the issue, IMO. Its the person's intent and effort in keeping the promise that matters.

 

To me, to say that one can't promise to love, they might as well say that they are planning to not love you one day - that they are just going to let it happen instead of work to make sure that it doesn't - so that you will already be prepared for it to occur. And that can't be good for a R.

 

I can't imagine waiting for that shoe to drop.

[NoIDidn't]

I'd say that what you've promised isn't "promising love". But you've promised to hold up your end of the relationship.

 

I'd go so far as to say that you've promised some commitment to the relationship, and putting every effort into it.

 

What you promised doesn't sound any different to me than the expectations anyone TRULY has when they take their marriage vows.

 

And that's where the break is...because the people claiming you can't "promise love" are saying this is why the vows were broken...why they SHOULD HAVE BEEN BROKEN...as a result of the affair.

 

You see...I get what you're saying about people changing over time.

 

But that' still doesn't 'justify' infidelity...it doesn't justify the UNILATERAL DECISION to violate those vows that an affair represents.

 

If things change...you JOINTLY re-negotiate or agree to end the contract.

 

See where I view the difference here?

 

 

We were posting at the same time, but very similar viewpoints.

 

I think in making the promise, one is saying that they will make EVERY EFFORT to keep it. Not just give up when things get tough. I think this is the idea behind the promise of love in M - the effort made to keep it.

[bentnotbroken]

Yes, I believe love can be promised. That over the top, all consuming feeling that most talk about as being love...isn't love to me. I guess I think that there are differences in "love" and "in love". Just like NID said, love is an action. Actions can be controlled by the head and the heart. That in love stuff is an emotion. One that most people seem to loose the ability to reason rationally. I think this is fed by lust (which within boundaries is an excellent thing;)). I believe real love can survive without the "in love" aspect but the "in love" can't survive without real love. Marriage like life goes in cycles.

[reboot]

We all look at things from our own unique perspective. I suppose that's why this question confuses me, and granted, it's entirely possible that I'm the oddball, that everyone else is sane and I'm not, but, how do you love someone, and then one day not love them anymore?

 

I can see where abuse, mental, physical, both, whatever, could drive love out of someone (fortunately I've never suffered that), but the idea that I can just wake up one morning and suddenly not love someone I've loved for years is just foreign and incomprehensible to me.

 

I suppose it's possible I'm just missing the point here. If so, I'd sure like to know what it is.

[White Flower]

I'd say that what you've promised isn't "promising love". But you've promised to hold up your end of the relationship.

 

I'd go so far as to say that you've promised some commitment to the relationship, and putting every effort into it.

 

What you promised doesn't sound any different to me than the expectations anyone TRULY has when they take their marriage vows.

 

And that's where the break is...because the people claiming you can't "promise love" are saying this is why the vows were broken...why they SHOULD HAVE BEEN BROKEN...as a result of the affair.

 

You see...I get what you're saying about people changing over time.

 

But that' still doesn't 'justify' infidelity...it doesn't justify the UNILATERAL DECISION to violate those vows that an affair represents.

 

If things change...you JOINTLY re-negotiate or agree to end the contract.

 

See where I view the difference here?

I think you've changed the subject ever so slightly Owl. I never said anything about breaking vows or that they should have been broken. My intent for starting this thread was to ponder whether love can be promised. I think our actions to back up love can be promised but not the love itself.

 

But I will add that if we change over time, especially our love, then we should renegotiate our contracts for sure.

[reboot]

That over the top, all consuming feeling that most talk about as being love...isn't love to me.

 

I think you just answered my question bent.

[reboot]

The butterflies always go away. But that's not love. I can't promise to always feel butterflies when I see you, but I can promise that if I ever loved you, I always will.

[donnamaybe]

I don't think anyone can truly say how they will feel at any given point in the future, but one CAN promise to be honest and deal with a R with integrity, even at its end.

[White Flower]

I don't think we consciously choose to love or not love, so therefore I don't think it can be promised. There are people who end up not loving their own children, because of how they behave towards them, and that to me is the most enduring and selfless love of all, yet even that is not guaranteed.

 

I think you are right that one can promise to try various things, I have had couples counselling and been supportive, and forgiven and all sorts, because I had committed to the relationship. But there came a time when I could not continue and did not love him any more. I wanted to love him but could not.

 

 

You can promise to be faithful, and loyal, and honest and all sorts of things, which I was despite not receiving those courtesies back. Not cheating, not lying, you can control those things and do them, or not do them. Loving someone is different. And the promise to love always comes with the caveat of 'if you do not cheat/lie/abuse... etc etc', and you can't prescribe how your lover will behave, or what may happen in their life.

My English professor in college always said he didn't believe in 'unconditional love'. He said love came with many conditions such as, 'I promise never to cheat/lie/abuse', etc. I'm not so sure love isn't conditional, but the institution of M certainly is.

[White Flower]

Yes, love can be promised. Its also been commanded - biblically speaking. If it can't be promised, why then, would it be commanded?

Ah, well if that is your basis.

 

Love is an action, a verb - not a feeling.

I believe there are many types of love. One is a feeling, a chemical thing. One example is a verb. Still there are others.

 

The thing is that people don't always keep their promises. The item promised isn't the issue, IMO. Its the person's intent and effort in keeping the promise that matters.

BINGO!!!

 

To me, to say that one can't promise to love, they might as well say that they are planning to not love you one day - that they are just going to let it happen instead of work to make sure that it doesn't - so that you will already be prepared for it to occur. And that can't be good for a R.

 

I can't imagine waiting for that shoe to drop.

You know, my exH actually said that 'it won't always feel this way you know...eventually this feeling will fade'. After he said that, I waited for that shoe to drop. My God, I think I waited over 20 years.

[White Flower]

We were posting at the same time, but very similar viewpoints.

 

I think in making the promise, one is saying that they will make EVERY EFFORT to keep it. Not just give up when things get tough. I think this is the idea behind the promise of love in M - the effort made to keep it.

Again, we agree. But I still think the effort goes behind the other work; the communication, the caring, the emotional support, etc.

[White Flower]

Yes, I believe love can be promised. That over the top, all consuming feeling that most talk about as being love...isn't love to me. I guess I think that there are differences in "love" and "in love". Just like NID said, love is an action. Actions can be controlled by the head and the heart. That in love stuff is an emotion. One that most people seem to loose the ability to reason rationally. I think this is fed by lust (which within boundaries is an excellent thing;)). I believe real love can survive without the "in love" aspect but the "in love" can't survive without real love. Marriage like life goes in cycles.

Love it!:cool:

[NoIDidn't]

I believe there are many types of love. One is a feeling, a chemical thing. One example is a verb. Still there are others.

 

You know, its not fair to change the goalposts by bringing up the "different" kinds of love, when seems pretty clear that the love that's "promised" doesn't actually fit those.

 

 

You know, my exH actually said that 'it won't always feel this way you know...eventually this feeling will fade'. After he said that, I waited for that shoe to drop. My God, I think I waited over 20 years.

 

Proving my point. I bet it didn't feel good waiting for that shoe to drop and didn't bring anything positive to your M to him.

 

I can understand the academic intent one has in saying something like what your H said, but the emotional impact is that the person isn't worth the effort to keep the feelings. That is a really deflating feeling.

[White Flower]

We all look at things from our own unique perspective. I suppose that's why this question confuses me, and granted, it's entirely possible that I'm the oddball, that everyone else is sane and I'm not, but, how do you love someone, and then one day not love them anymore?

 

I can see where abuse, mental, physical, both, whatever, could drive love out of someone (fortunately I've never suffered that), but the idea that I can just wake up one morning and suddenly not love someone I've loved for years is just foreign and incomprehensible to me.

 

I suppose it's possible I'm just missing the point here. If so, I'd sure like to know what it is.

I think you hit the nail on the head. I was one of the unfortunate ones who did suffer that. My exH literally killed my love for him. This took time and effort but he finally accomplished it. I don't hate him, I don't have lingering feelings for him, I just feel indifferent. But he DID something for me to get that way. You're lucky your W hasn't done that to you.

 

As for MM, I just don't know what caused him to fall out of love. I even question whether he ever really loved her. I think it was lust, according to his stories, and I think he thought he would never find that kind of lust again. He was wrong. Had he waited a few more years he may have met the love of his life and I don't mean me. Had he put off M for a while, he may have never been a cheater.

[Snowflower]

The butterflies always go away. But that's not love. I can't promise to always feel butterflies when I see you, but I can promise that if I ever loved you, I always will.

This is very sweet. Your wife is a lucky woman.

[White Flower]

I don't think anyone can truly say how they will feel at any given point in the future, but one CAN promise to be honest and deal with a R with integrity, even at its end.

Very true. I wish everyone could deal with the truth no matter how hard it is.

[White Flower]

I believe there are many types of love. One is a feeling, a chemical thing. One example is a verb. Still there are others.

You know, its not fair to change the goalposts by bringing up the "different" kinds of love, when seems pretty clear that the love that's "promised" doesn't actually fit those.

I don't believe I changed the goalposts. I believe the chemical love is something you cannot promise but the verbal love you can.

 

You know, my exH actually said that 'it won't always feel this way you know...eventually this feeling will fade'. After he said that, I waited for that shoe to drop. My God, I think I waited over 20 years.

 

 

Proving my point. I bet it didn't feel good waiting for that shoe to drop and didn't bring anything positive to your M to him.

You're right and he should have thought about that.

 

I can understand the academic intent one has in saying something like what your H said, but the emotional impact is that the person isn't worth the effort to keep the feelings. That is a really deflating feeling.

It was a self-fulfilling prophecy is what it was. It was his core belief that romantic feelings fade. I disagree. If we try to be romantic, be proactive in edifying the M then we have a better chance at keeping our promise to love (verb).

[Silly_Girl]

If we try to be romantic, be proactive in edifying the M then we have a better chance at keeping our promise to love (verb).

 

"Better chance". Absolutely. But no guarantee. So making a 'promise to love' is not realistic in my view. But, by 'eck, do all that other stuff!

[Owl]

I think you've changed the subject ever so slightly Owl. I never said anything about breaking vows or that they should have been broken. My intent for starting this thread was to ponder whether love can be promised. I think our actions to back up love can be promised but not the love itself.

 

But I will add that if we change over time, especially our love, then we should renegotiate our contracts for sure.

 

Sorry, I'd carried over the context of the original question from previous threads.

 

In truth, there isn't a person in the world who can promise ANYTHING about the future, not even if it's 5 seconds from the moment the promise is made.

 

There's too many variables outside of anyone's control to TRULY promise much of anything.

 

I could promise to be with my wife forever...and then get hit by a beer truck as I crossed the street.

 

But...the idea of promising to jointly renegotiate if the situation changes is a good one...if everyone stuck to it.

[jennie-jennie]

We all look at things from our own unique perspective. I suppose that's why this question confuses me, and granted, it's entirely possible that I'm the oddball, that everyone else is sane and I'm not, but, how do you love someone, and then one day not love them anymore?

 

I can see where abuse, mental, physical, both, whatever, could drive love out of someone (fortunately I've never suffered that), but the idea that I can just wake up one morning and suddenly not love someone I've loved for years is just foreign and incomprehensible to me.

 

I suppose it's possible I'm just missing the point here. If so, I'd sure like to know what it is.

 

I think we agree here, reboot. I do love all my exSOs. But I have moved on. I am not in a love relationship with them anymore, because I stopped being in love with them and fell in love with someone else whom I also love now.

 

Maybe I am the oddball but I stay in love for decades. When I am no longer in love with my SO, when my love has transformed from a selfish love to an altruistic love, I have no wish to be in a relationship with him any longer. But I still love him!

 

I think to me it is the difference between selfish love (in love) and altruistic love (love). I feel altruistic love for my children, parents, friends and my exSOs. I feel selfish love for my present partner, ie he makes me feel good and that is why I want to be around him.

[jennie-jennie]

So to answer the OP's question, I can with pretty much certainty promise to hold altruistic love for an SO for the rest of my life, but altruistic love is not enough for me to want to stay in a relationship.

 

The selfish love which is necessary for me to want to stay in a relationship with a man can only be given to one man at a time, so when the object for that love has changed, I am gone. This kind of love can not be promised. This is the kind of love which makes me desire a man. Without desire I am not interested in having a relationship. Without desire it is friendship not a relationship in my opinion.

[bittersweet memories]

I borrowed a couple of quotes from November-Rain's thread which seems to be going off topic:

 

 

 

 

 

I've been thinking about this topic for quite some time. I adamently believe love can be promised IF and only if we are mature, know ourselves, and have the ability to stay true to something as we evolve in other areas. I adamantly don't believe love can be promised otherwise.

 

Just a small example. MM chose to marry at a very young age. He's pretty sure he fell out of love with his W some time before his wedding day but went through on his promise to M her. He has been faking it for nearly 40 years now. He kept his promise to remain M, but not in loving her.

 

Another example. I loved my exH dearly and did everything in my power to ensure love would survive. I supported him emotionally and financially, I bought books on Rs, I got us into counseling. When I recognized he was never going to do the OTHER work to support love, my love for him eventually died.

 

But we both M young, both around the age of 21. Now that we're mature, know ourselves very well, physically, mentally, and emotionally, we know what our needs are and know how to sustain Rs that are very dear to us.

 

I have often suggested that love cannot be promised, but if that is true, how can MM trust that I will always love him? Why would he leave his W if I cannot promise I will love him forever or at least until death do us part?

 

Since my A I have pondered this 'promise to love forever issue' and I think I've finally come to a conclusion: I know I love him already and I know he loves me. This is a fact, not a promise. We can only promise to try to work things out, try to communicate, be there for each other, and do the OTHER things that help to keep love alive. I can promise those things, and if he keeps his end of the deal, then and only then can we promise to love.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Your MM has been married for 40 years? Wow!! How old is he like over 60? For some reason I pictured a 30 something year old.

 

I bet there is love there weather you want to believe it or not. Maybe he's not inlove with her but no doubt he loves her. She is the mother of his kids and after 40 years of marriage he has not left her.