Can love be promised?

[fooled once]

I entirely agree, Jennie....

This is why I truly believe Marriage is an impossible contract.

Is anybody the completely same person they were 15 years ago?

have your tastes, ideals, objectives, opinions and views changed?

What on earth makes anybody think that whatever you promise now, willbe a keepable, in 10 years form now?

Nothing, but nothing is certain, apart form death and taxes.

I solemnly promise you all, one day I shall die.

but that all I can say with a 100% degree of certainty.

Sure, you can promise the moon.

getting it is another matter.

 

Really? I know people who HAVE done exactly that - promised a love and stayed married for 48 years, 53 years and another for 39 years. They did because they communicate with each other, they are honest with each other, they respect each other and they have grown TOGETHER. It CAN be done. I promised to love my H 12 years ago and I am happy to report that I am still in love with him, in fact, I love him more. Marriage, like ANY relationship, requires work, commitment and flexibility. If you have something good, why would anyone throw it away at the first sign of trouble? I don't get why people CAN'T stay true to their promise.

 

But what you are saying Owl, is 'I promise to try not to fall in love with someone else', you are not saying that you can promise to love your wife. That is different.

You can promise to not to put yourself in the position of loving someone else. However, if the person you love does things or does not do things that make you not want to love them any more, then you may be much more vulnerable to falling for someone else. Love is a human need. No one is happy without love in some form.

You can promise to work at your love, but not promise to love someone for ever. You love with your heart not your head. A promise is made in the mind and is mostly just words or a piece of paper. Feelings of love can be totally overwhelming for some so promises go out of the window. Not everyone is in such control of their emotions as you appear to be or convince yourself you are.

 

I think it is obvious that IF the person you have promised to love does something like -- have an affair -- then all bets are off. I believe Owl was saying with no major trauma like an affair, why would 2 people who want to be together not work together to get through the hurdles that life throws at you? And why the snarky comment that Owl believes he IS in control of his emotions? Why do the snarky comments come out when someone doesn't agree with someone? Just because MANY of us DO believe in love and marriage doesn't mean we deserve the snarky comments from those that don't.

 

It is getting pretty bad lately with this happening so much now. Jthorne is accused of not reading something when the poster never bothered to ASK FIRST before making the snarky comment, the when another poster disagrees with someone who said they don't need someone else telling them what they can and do feel....

 

Differences of opinion are totally fine - it is the personal attacks, the snarky comments and the when people won't bow to the ever knowledgeable ones who get to decide what people do and don't believe in. And you (general you) wonder why newbies don't come back???

 

Wow. Now I've heard everything.

 

It's altruistic to be in an A.

 

I'm shaking my head here. That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

 

Denial doesn't get any plainer than that folks.

 

And if you can't take it, don't dish it out.

 

GEL

 

Totally agree GEL - totally agree. We are all entitled to our own views - since when did it become okay to start crap because people don't agree with your (general your) views? Sensitive much???

 

I also don't think we can speak for anyone else but ourselves on what kind of love we individually have for anyone.

 

Bittersweet and WF -- I have to say, I am the lucky one in that I was given this amazing kid to raise. Hardest yet BEST experience of my life!! But thank you both for those sweet words. Means a lot to me ((hug))

 

BACK ON TARGET NOW - so from this thread, I would conclude that the majority of posters DO agree in being able to promise love.

 

WF - you asked so I will answer - I am female, mid-40's - married the first time at 22, divorced at 31, remarried at 34 - have a grown son and a grown step daughter.

[White Flower]

Err no Whiteflower, not even close.

 

I think somebody else might have though.

I've combed it over and haven't found it. I think I'm getting old.

[jennie-jennie]

I've combed it over and haven't found it. I think I'm getting old.

 

I don't think it is there, WF. It is just a misinterpretation of what was being said.

[JustJoe]

I was going to wade into this thread before, but thought that I would wait until the shrapnel cooled. My degree is not in Psychology and I've always thought that Alberoni was a type of Sicilian sausage. And, as others will no doubt point out, have never been married. But my opinion is that Love cannot be promised forever, only for the finite period of time that the promisor is feeling that emotion. What CAN be promised is partnership, until death. That regardless of exigencies, you will put the "couple", ahead of the individual, until you, the promisor have died.

[White Flower]

I was going to wade into this thread before, but thought that I would wait until the shrapnel cooled. My degree is not in Psychology and I've always thought that Alberoni was a type of Sicilian sausage. And, as others will no doubt point out, have never been married. But my opinion is that Love cannot be promised forever, only for the finite period of time that the promisor is feeling that emotion. What CAN be promised is partnership, until death. That regardless of exigencies, you will put the "couple", ahead of the individual, until you, the promisor have died.

Well thank you Joe for finally chiming in! I think it's a pretty fair assumption. It follows the idea that love (the verb) can be promised long after love (the chemistry and emotion) have faded a bit.

 

And spoken like a true soldier.

[JustJoe]

Absolutely, WF to have that kind of devotion, to agree that the sum is greater than the parts, is a truly wonderful thing to see. My Grandparents were married for 70 years, I'm pretty sure that they have had their ups and downs, but they built a family and a life together, and regarded it as more important than any of the distractions that they faced. That kind of selflessness and devotion is , to my mind , a greater love than all of those emotional and hormonal, TEMPORARY. feelings.

[jennie-jennie]

And you read his books? I just love how people on LS are so quick to renounce what they have not even read.

 

It seems like a couple of posters didn't notice that this was a question.

[jennie-jennie]

Absolutely, WF to have that kind of devotion, to agree that the sum is greater than the parts, is a truly wonderful thing to see. My Grandparents were married for 70 years, I'm pretty sure that they have had their ups and downs, but they built a family and a life together, and regarded it as more important than any of the distractions that they faced. That kind of selflessness and devotion is , to my mind , a greater love than all of those emotional and hormonal, TEMPORARY. feelings.

 

I hear what you are saying, Joe, but I would not consider the love felt in serial monogamous relationships temporary. Just taking my own experience as an example: 5 years, 26 years, and my present relationship now going on its fifth year.

[witabix]

Love is a hard to define thing.

 

Love can be promised. It is important to realise that the promiser is referring to their love, their understanding of what they mean by the words 'I love you'. They do not refer to your understanding the words.

 

Love is not an object that can be defined by mass, velocity or location. It is not an absolute. The word is used in so many situations that I think we have worn it out a little.

 

It is strange that when someone says 'I hate you' we are never in any doubt what they mean. Would we ever promise to hate someone? Maybe we wouldn't say it, but we do it. Maintaining hate would seem to be a simple thing to do.

 

Why is that? Are love and hate opposites? I have seen them mingled in together with other peoples R's, at least I think I have.

 

As for the promise of continuing love. Of course people can say they will promise to love forever, but I would assume that this vow would be dependent on a certain set of circumstances remaining largely unchanged.

 

Human nature being what it is it seems to be a little much to hold someone to a pledge that involves so much on the part of the promiser, and the situation, remaining within a set of boundaries.

 

Life is too complicated these days, I feel, for 'love' to stay in the romantic ideal of fifty or one hundred years ago. Opportunities and lifestyle seem to mitigate against the lifelong pledge made in front of family friends.

 

I do believe people start with the best intention. Modern life pressures makes it more and more difficult to maintain a sense of perspective and reality and this leads people into confusion about what they are, what they are doing, and where their life is going.

 

Love has been lost, or at least obscured in the rush to achieve and be successful. We don't see each other in the way previous generations did. We don't see ourselves in the light of self awareness any more, we are force fed a diet of global cataclysm, war, and hate.

 

How can any one see clearly enough in this 21st century fog of media, designer bodies, and instant gratification to really know and feel love for yourself let alone a true vow to love someone else for ever and ever, amen.

 

That doesn't mean we shouldn't try, or that a promise can not be made. Like a lone voice calling love's name into the wind.

[OWoman]

Really? I know people who HAVE done exactly that - promised a love and stayed married for 48 years, 53 years and another for 39 years. They did because they communicate with each other, they are honest with each other, they respect each other and they have grown TOGETHER. It CAN be done.

 

 

FO - I'm not sure that "staying married" is the same thing as delivering on a promise to love. My parents "stayed married" for decades, too - but that was a very different thing to delivering on a promise to love. They were married, but there was no love - or nothing I would have recognised as love. They subsequently split, once the kids were grown. My xILs promised love, and were together until parted by death. They professed their love daily - and it clearly worked for them, but what I saw was an oppressive, exploitative regime of submission and resistance, of making the best of what they were dealt - but claiming to the world to be happy. Perhaps that was love, of a kind, but it's not any kind of love I'd want.

 

My father promised love to his 2nd W, and they certainly seem to be living that, decades on. So sure, it is possible... in some cases. For him, it was only possible 2nd time around - and perhaps at some point that will also run out, IDK.

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I know myself. I'm someone who thrives on change and growth, treading water and standing still is simply not my style. The complacent comforts of middle age frighten me more than death threats, and I never ever want to "settle down" in that sense. I would rather poke out my eyes than become bored. I'm very lucky in that I have a H who is dynamic, exciting and engaging - but what if we do hit a slump in, say, 10 years time? What if by then we've exhausted all there is to discover about each other? Should we stay shackled together because we signed papers declaring us man and wife? Personally, we're both the growing and learning kind, so it's unlikely we'll drift into that kind of state, but we could grow apart - and I think it's fine to say, if that happens - that we're no longer best suited to being together. I never want to make someone miserable by being with them - if I'm not adding value to their lives, I don't want to be in it.

 

I can certainly promise to love my H as much as I can for as long as I can - but if I change - or he changes - and that love lessens, I feel I owe it to both of us to be honest about that, so that we can together decide how best to proceed. I could not imagine living inauthentically, and I would rather have honesty than stability. I'm sure it's not the same for everyone, but I know that to be true to myself, I cannot make open ended promises into a future I don't know.

[Passion4Life]

FO - I'm not sure that "staying married" is the same thing as delivering on a promise to love. My parents "stayed married" for decades, too - but that was a very different thing to delivering on a promise to love. They were married, but there was no love - or nothing I would have recognised as love. They subsequently split, once the kids were grown. My xILs promised love, and were together until parted by death. They professed their love daily - and it clearly worked for them, but what I saw was an oppressive, exploitative regime of submission and resistance, of making the best of what they were dealt - but claiming to the world to be happy. Perhaps that was love, of a kind, but it's not any kind of love I'd want.

 

My father promised love to his 2nd W, and they certainly seem to be living that, decades on. So sure, it is possible... in some cases. For him, it was only possible 2nd time around - and perhaps at some point that will also run out, IDK.

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I know myself. I'm someone who thrives on change and growth, treading water and standing still is simply not my style. The complacent comforts of middle age frighten me more than death threats, and I never ever want to "settle down" in that sense. I would rather poke out my eyes than become bored. I'm very lucky in that I have a H who is dynamic, exciting and engaging - but what if we do hit a slump in, say, 10 years time? What if by then we've exhausted all there is to discover about each other? Should we stay shackled together because we signed papers declaring us man and wife? Personally, we're both the growing and learning kind, so it's unlikely we'll drift into that kind of state, but we could grow apart - and I think it's fine to say, if that happens - that we're no longer best suited to being together. I never want to make someone miserable by being with them - if I'm not adding value to their lives, I don't want to be in it.

 

I can certainly promise to love my H as much as I can for as long as I can - but if I change - or he changes - and that love lessens, I feel I owe it to both of us to be honest about that, so that we can together decide how best to proceed. I could not imagine living inauthentically, and I would rather have honesty than stability. I'm sure it's not the same for everyone, but I know that to be true to myself, I cannot make open ended promises into a future I don't know.

 

So basically what you are saying is that you promise to love your husband until you get bored of him or the newness is gone .

[NoIDidn't]

Love is a hard to define thing.

 

Love can be promised. It is important to realise that the promiser is referring to their love, their understanding of what they mean by the words 'I love you'. They do not refer to your understanding the words.

 

Love is not an object that can be defined by mass, velocity or location. It is not an absolute. The word is used in so many situations that I think we have worn it out a little.

 

It is strange that when someone says 'I hate you' we are never in any doubt what they mean. Would we ever promise to hate someone? Maybe we wouldn't say it, but we do it. Maintaining hate would seem to be a simple thing to do.

 

Why is that? Are love and hate opposites? I have seen them mingled in together with other peoples R's, at least I think I have.

 

As for the promise of continuing love. Of course people can say they will promise to love forever, but I would assume that this vow would be dependent on a certain set of circumstances remaining largely unchanged.

 

Human nature being what it is it seems to be a little much to hold someone to a pledge that involves so much on the part of the promiser, and the situation, remaining within a set of boundaries.

 

Life is too complicated these days, I feel, for 'love' to stay in the romantic ideal of fifty or one hundred years ago. Opportunities and lifestyle seem to mitigate against the lifelong pledge made in front of family friends.

 

I do believe people start with the best intention. Modern life pressures makes it more and more difficult to maintain a sense of perspective and reality and this leads people into confusion about what they are, what they are doing, and where their life is going.

 

Love has been lost, or at least obscured in the rush to achieve and be successful. We don't see each other in the way previous generations did. We don't see ourselves in the light of self awareness any more, we are force fed a diet of global cataclysm, war, and hate.

 

How can any one see clearly enough in this 21st century fog of media, designer bodies, and instant gratification to really know and feel love for yourself let alone a true vow to love someone else for ever and ever, amen.

 

That doesn't mean we shouldn't try, or that a promise can not be made. Like a lone voice calling love's name into the wind.

 

I like this post. The bolded sentence reminded me of my new favorite movie Avatar. I really liked their greeting: "I see you". And the meaning they had for it. It was more than I'm looking at you, but more like I value and respect you, and see your worth.

[JustJoe]

Owoman, your post seems to me to be pretty selfish and superficial. I feel that there has to be more to love, than perpetual sensory gratification. This is, in no way, a dig against you, just my impression from your words. You talk about "losin that lovin feelin", as if you expect it, at some time. What I take from this thread is that the "promise of love", means that if, at some point in time, you (pl) DO lose it, you (sing) will do everything possible to get it back, for the sake of the relationship, family, whatever. Boredom happens in even the best and most dynamic of relationships. There will always be things that he likes but that bore you stiff, and vice versa. Do you ****-can love simply because you don't the patience to bear with your partner's differences?

[Passion4Life]

Owoman, your post seems to me to be pretty selfish and superficial. I feel that there has to be more to love, than perpetual sensory gratification. This is, in no way, a dig against you, just my impression from your words. You talk about "losin that lovin feelin", as if you expect it, at some time. What I take from this thread is that the "promise of love", means that if, at some point in time, you (pl) DO lose it, you (sing) will do everything possible to get it back, for the sake of the relationship, family, whatever. Boredom happens in even the best and most dynamic of relationships. There will always be things that he likes but that bore you stiff, and vice versa. Do you ****-can love simply because you don't the patience to bear with your partner's differences?

 

I think OWoman post means that she promise to love her husband until she get bored of him or the newness is gone .

 

Lots of people on this forum share the same view

[fooled once]

FO - I'm not sure that "staying married" is the same thing as delivering on a promise to love. My parents "stayed married" for decades, too - but that was a very different thing to delivering on a promise to love. They were married, but there was no love - or nothing I would have recognised as love. They subsequently split, once the kids were grown. My xILs promised love, and were together until parted by death. They professed their love daily - and it clearly worked for them, but what I saw was an oppressive, exploitative regime of submission and resistance, of making the best of what they were dealt - but claiming to the world to be happy. Perhaps that was love, of a kind, but it's not any kind of love I'd want.

 

My father promised love to his 2nd W, and they certainly seem to be living that, decades on. So sure, it is possible... in some cases. For him, it was only possible 2nd time around - and perhaps at some point that will also run out, IDK.

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I know myself. I'm someone who thrives on change and growth, treading water and standing still is simply not my style. The complacent comforts of middle age frighten me more than death threats, and I never ever want to "settle down" in that sense. I would rather poke out my eyes than become bored. I'm very lucky in that I have a H who is dynamic, exciting and engaging - but what if we do hit a slump in, say, 10 years time? What if by then we've exhausted all there is to discover about each other? Should we stay shackled together because we signed papers declaring us man and wife? Personally, we're both the growing and learning kind, so it's unlikely we'll drift into that kind of state, but we could grow apart - and I think it's fine to say, if that happens - that we're no longer best suited to being together. I never want to make someone miserable by being with them - if I'm not adding value to their lives, I don't want to be in it.

 

I can certainly promise to love my H as much as I can for as long as I can - but if I change - or he changes - and that love lessens, I feel I owe it to both of us to be honest about that, so that we can together decide how best to proceed. I could not imagine living inauthentically, and I would rather have honesty than stability. I'm sure it's not the same for everyone, but I know that to be true to myself, I cannot make open ended promises into a future I don't know.

 

OW, I know there is a difference. I never implied they stayed married because they didn't love each other. They stayed married because they love each other -- I didn't realize I had to be that specific since I was talking about those that DO stay married because they want to because they love each other. I could have stayed married to my ex, but I chose to divorce because there was no love, i was young enough to want another shot at love and I got it

 

Its too bad that more people don't strive to stay in love and work towards that goal.

 

My marriage has had ups and downs -- I am glad I didn't bail because it got boring or we were going through a tough patch. I think those that DO work on their marriage, to strive to keep it going and keep the love are truly dedicated to their partners and the life they envisioned together.

 

It is easy to bail - it is easy to cut and run. I would rather fight for something I believe in than to just give up because it got boring or was hard.

 

Owoman, your post seems to me to be pretty selfish and superficial. I feel that there has to be more to love, than perpetual sensory gratification. This is, in no way, a dig against you, just my impression from your words. You talk about "losin that lovin feelin", as if you expect it, at some time. What I take from this thread is that the "promise of love", means that if, at some point in time, you (pl) DO lose it, you (sing) will do everything possible to get it back, for the sake of the relationship, family, whatever. Boredom happens in even the best and most dynamic of relationships. There will always be things that he likes but that bore you stiff, and vice versa. Do you ****-can love simply because you don't the patience to bear with your partner's differences?

 

Totally agree with the bolded parts!

[OWoman]

OW, I know there is a difference. I never implied they stayed married because they didn't love each other. They stayed married because they love each other -- I didn't realize I had to be that specific since I was talking about those that DO stay married because they want to because they love each other. I could have stayed married to my ex, but I chose to divorce because there was no love, i was young enough to want another shot at love and I got it

 

Thanks for clarifying. I wasn't clear from your post whether you were implying that their staying together was proof of their love, or just a consequence of it.

 

Its too bad that more people don't strive to stay in love and work towards that goal.

 

My marriage has had ups and downs -- I am glad I didn't bail because it got boring or we were going through a tough patch. I think those that DO work on their marriage, to strive to keep it going and keep the love are truly dedicated to their partners and the life they envisioned together.

 

It is easy to bail - it is easy to cut and run. I would rather fight for something I believe in than to just give up because it got boring or was hard.

 

Oh I agree with that - I wasn't meaning to imply that if it's not all champagne and roses, I'm outta here. OTC - this is something we both wanted, fought for, and achieved at considerable cost to us both. Each day we affirm how profoundly grateful we are for what we have, and how precious it is to us. I think with second Ms you do have that sense of perspective.

 

My point was rather that if the M - like any other R - ceases to be good for EITHER party, if the costs outweigh the benefits and someone's reserves are being depleted as a result - then, it is not (healthily) sustainable, and should be ended. If either party finds they can no longer live authentically within the R, the R becomes pathological and damaging, and should not continue.

 

I love my H very dearly, and make a point of telling him how I feel (as does he). I can promise him that - but I cannot make promises about a future I can't foretell. I cannot promise to love him if the M becomes pathological and damaging. I cannot promise to love him if I lose the ability to love. I cannot promise to love him if it really does become better that we split. I don't foresee any of that happening - there are no indicators to suggest that it might - but I don't have the power of second sight and in the absence of that kind of guarantee, I can only promise that which I believe I can deliver.

 

I can promise to give this M my best shot - and I have made that promise. It's not one I'm in any danger of breaking.

[fooled once]

Oh I agree with that - I wasn't meaning to imply that if it's not all champagne and roses, I'm outta here. OTC - this is something we both wanted, fought for, and achieved at considerable cost to us both. Each day we affirm how profoundly grateful we are for what we have, and how precious it is to us. I think with second Ms you do have that sense of perspective.

 

I completely agree with the bolded!!!

 

My point was rather that if the M - like any other R - ceases to be good for EITHER party, if the costs outweigh the benefits and someone's reserves are being depleted as a result - then, it is not (healthily) sustainable, and should be ended. If either party finds they can no longer live authentically within the R, the R becomes pathological and damaging, and should not continue.

 

Again, I completely agree!!!!

 

I can promise to give this M my best shot - and I have made that promise. It's not one I'm in any danger of breaking.

 

And finally, I completely agree!!!!

[White Flower]

I think OWoman post means that she promise to love her husband until she get bored of him or the newness is gone .

 

Lots of people on this forum share the same view

Lots of people everywhere share the view you assumed was OWoman's view but I think you missed the mark.

 

If I would be allowed to summarize OWoman's post, I would say she wasn't talking about getting bored in the future or fearing the newness wearing off; that is for immature people to worry about. Rather, I believe she was more concerned with two people growing apart instead of together, or of having unforeseen circumstances arise that would make it impossible to love.

 

One example can be that one or the other has a stroke and has more needs of receiving love than of giving it. In that instance, she could no longer promise to love then she could promise to hold a spoon with a paralyzed left hand. None of us know what lies in our future, so none of us can truly promise anything. We can only hope we will be 'normal' enough to carry out our promise to love as long as we are healthy and capable. And if we are lucky enough to be that healthy, then hopefully we are also driven enough to ensure that love stays alive...at least on our parts. We'd be even luckier if our partner strives for the same.