Dealing with adversity

[moimeme]

I think people have been crippling their children, which is why this whole business about poor self-esteem is rampant.

 

Rather than allowing their kids to face adversity square on and teaching them how to deal with it and thrive, people rush to protect them from everything. The result is PC ness taken to the extreme. It is one thing to not be openly insulting or abusive of people, but it goes too far, IMHO, when people are supposed to refrain from any remark which might possibly offend one or a few people - and I am NOT talking about bigotry or racism - just strong comments or jokes or - well - any remarks, basically.

 

You don't life life hiding from unpleasantness. That just weakens you. You learn to appreciate your strength by overcoming adversity. By becoming strong in yourself so that you don't flinch the minute someone glances your way the wrong way. By becoming resilient to overcome the junk that live will inevitably throw at you.

 

Plenty of things offend me. Country music offends me. People who drive SUVs offend me. People who turn right from the middle lane offend me. However, I don't want to hide in my home and never see or hear these offences. I'm strong because I've come through much worse than that and survived.

 

I don't think any favours are done anyone when we throw shields over them to protect them from the tiniest possible maybe-if-you-play-it-backwards-on-Thursday thing which might bother them. Life can be truly rotten sometimes; the only way to manage the wretchedness is to be able to deal with the minor annoyances without running and hiding from them. Else when the true garbage hits, you'll be crippled.

[Errol]

I've thought about that myself -- but not only about children/adults. Governments and lawyers, politics in general, foster adversity in their misguided attempt to eliminate it. I don't think adversity can - or even should - be eliminated. Businesses take actions against employees who may make an off-color remark, or a remark that someone takes the wrong way. Oh Oh! Better get rid of that employee before we get sued.

 

So many children are being taught the way to deal with adversity is to sue. It's the protest-rave of this generation -- hire a lawyer to fight for you in court! We used to just have a sit-in to raise awareness! Maybe we went about it the wrong way too.

 

I know that I have refrained from saying some things when around people I don't know very well, not because I was afraid I would offend them, but because I was afraid of what they might do if I did offend them. I know that is a very fine-line difference -- it's like saying someone died of complications from pneumonia and not of pneumonia itself. Bottom line is I sometimes now feel uncomfortable speaking my mind or sharing a joke in certain situations. If I had small kids now I would probably be afraid to swat them in public for fear someone would scream child abuse!

 

Life can be truly rotten sometimes; the only way to manage the wretchedness is to be able to deal with the minor annoyances without running and hiding from them. Else when the true garbage hits, you'll be crippled.

Couldn't agree more.

[Arabess]

I agree with you Moimeme. There are times I've wished I could send my kids to a nice private school where they didn't have to deal with violence in the hallway, teachers who don't give a damn, gangs....then again, if I shelter them from 'the world'.....I've not allowed them the opportunity of learning how to navigate thru life.

 

Truth is....as adults....there will always be bullies and bosses we don't like. How we deal with this as adults....comes from how we dealt with the mean kids and bad teachers when we were in school.

 

I think the same is true when parents don't give chores and budgets to children. The only person to help prepare them for life.....is a parent. Making life too easy on them.....is only giving them false hopes. LOL!

[moimeme]

Making life too easy on them.....is only giving them false hopes

 

No kidding! I was WAY too old when I realized that people in a workplace will lie about you. I thought that sort of garbage was the type of thing kids did and that adults were better than that.

[jenny]

i'm sorry; i respect the impetus of the thread, but threads about how good one feels about oneself in comparison to other generations or the general population, with no contextualization, will always rouse a bit of ire in me. i can't let them go - i'm glad you feel terrific about yourself, and your morals, but you must know these are shaky ego constructions, at best.

 

and sure; i've had, as we all have had, some really, really, bad, goddamn awful, times; physically horrible and classless times; but this has made me more sensitive if anything. i would be delighted to compare the struggles of my background to anyone on forum, excepting Hokey. i did not burrow, but i learned to appreciate those who understood what class struggle is really about - it's a battle for 9$ for a family meal, it's an emotional battle; it's a struggle against ending up on the jerry springer show. it's learning to say 'f*** you' to patronizing food-bank spinsters; it's learning to spin to your landlord; it's domestic-angry. at the end, simply this: i am easily as self-satisfied as you are, but i don't understand the need to thread advertise it so often.

 

frankly, i don't think the next generation is weaker - i think, if anything, they are stronger, sleeker, more media savvy, and faster that i was. . i think they can face adversity in a tenth of the time it takes me to even recognize it.they have it harder than i did. they know, more that i did, than you cannot count on one company to care for you - the good old days are dead. people who got degrees and jobs in the 60s would not be able to do so now with the same amount of work, methodology, and money. i think youth today generally have better ethics than most hippies did - partly because they are so refreshingly honest about looking out for self-interest.

 

finally, i don't think contemporary youth flee from adversity, i think they just recognize doddering bull$hit when they hear it. apathy is logical protectionism. it's not even worth engaging; one could get a stone massage in the same amount of time it takes to humour this cachunking train of thought. more on point: they don't engage adversity that is outdated and without beneficial knowledge.

 

i am envious of today's youth; i don't mind admitting it. i'm only 27, but my time has passed, and that's cool. i don't normally buy teleological spins on evolution; but this upcoming generation is finer and stronger than mine and that's cool.

 

i know i will get eaten alive by the shrill for this post, but i seriously can't help myself. there is one feel-good old school liberal humanist post every three months; i don't mind taking the punishment for pointing them out as absurdly self-satisfied. so, eat away, my pretties, it's all good. i just don't mind your adversity; often i think it's cute.

 

i think the sum total of what i have learned from how much others have hurt me is how not to hurt others. i would rather not send messages that make others seek cover, and if i do i want to be called on it by my kinder and more genteel peers. i am grateful for them.

 

real adversity is facing your own weaknesses, in my opinion.

[moimeme]

but threads about how good one feels about oneself in comparison to other generations or the general population

i am easily as self-satisfied as you are, but i don't understand the need to thread advertise it so often.

 

! It's all I ever see. This latest from you included. You've just described in great detail why you are infinitely superior to me in that you never discuss your infinite superiority. Ever look up the word 'superbia'?

 

i'm glad you feel terrific about yourself, and your morals

 

Sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

 

This is not that, nor was it intended to be. First you bash me for not including examples from my life; when I do, you bash me again. It would be helpful if you'd make up your mind.

 

i don't think contemporary youth flee from adversity

 

Nor was that my point. Fortunately, the other respondents did get where I was going with this thread.

 

I'd be flattered that you've made it your personal mission to take me down a few pegs if it didn't detract from the discussion at hand. But since you have hijacked the thread, let's turn the tables, shall we?

 

will always rouse a bit of ire in me. i can't let them go

 

Jenny charges at that which she has decided to deem a post about my moral superiority.

 

but this has made me more sensitive if anything

 

i. e. 'in contrast you your clearly insensitive self, I am so much the better a human being'

 

but i learned to appreciate those who understood what class struggle is really about

 

i.e. ' which, clearly, you fail utterly to comprehend as I do'

 

i don't mind admitting it

 

i.e. 'look how refreshingly honest I am about my own shortcomings; aren't I grand?'

 

but i seriously can't help myself

i don't mind taking the punishment for pointing them out as absurdly self-satisfied

 

'look how brave I am - and ever so insightful to see into your egregious and hateful self-adoration'

 

I think the sum total of what i have learned from how much others have hurt me is how not to hurt others. i would rather not send messages that make others seek cover, and if i do i want to be called on it by my kinder and more genteel peers. i am grateful for them.

 

i.e. 'take your example from me, the epitome of wonderfulness. look how truly excellent I am to do these things - in comparison with you, who are nowhere near as wonderful because you do not' (neglecting to include 'in my subjective estimation', of course)

 

What's truly humourous is that you never notice that you are the very embodiment of Miss Pot.

 

Now that we are all clear on exactly how much better you are than me, could we please get back to this discussion? And, in the famous words of one Miss P... let.it.go? Everyone knows you think little of me and I am well aware of it as I have been for many months. You have made it abundantly clear in numerous posts. I have chosen to assist you in your quest this time to make sure everyone understands exactly my flaws in your eyes. People are welcome to print out these posts and keep them by their computers lest they ever be so foolish as to think kindly or well of me. The mods can make this a sticky post to be certain that nobody should ever make the mistake of thinking that I might actually not be intent on self-aggrandizement. We must at all cost disabuse every LS member of that foolish notion. Surely you would hate for any poor deluded fool to be so lacking in insight and clarity tht they might think me to be caring, empathic, and desirous of helping others.

 

So now we have accomplished your goal in abundance, perhaps there is no real need to belabour the point any further? Because it is really getting old.

 

The Kettle

[moimeme]

And now, to be perfectly clear about my motivation and intent (though clearly some will not believe me).

 

I am not cursed with the agonizing lack of self-esteem so many people seem to suffer. People at a distance and people near and dear to me do suffer that way and so I have tried to figure out why; what could it be that would make me different; why they have such difficulty and I do not. It is my theory that people who are sheltered from events in life do not have the chance to develop confidence in their ability to deal with problems, hence the first post here.

 

I do not take credit for having self-esteem, nor for any of the other gifts I have, including that of resilience. Rather, I feel very blessed, and that these are gifts from God (yes, atheists/scoffers, I'm a firm believer) and that because I have some of these gifts that others have not been given, I am expected to use them in service of others.

 

I have had a lot of difficulties in my life; again, I believe that I have experienced them because now it has put me in a position to understand others in similar situations and to be able to assist and advise them. I do not take credit for this. In fact, I feel a tremendous obligation:

 

From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked. Luke 12:48

 

I am cognisant of this constantly.

 

Lessons I have learned and philosophies I espouse do not come from an intellectualized 'moralism' , as the charge is often levied at me, but from hard-won lessons of pain and of observing the pain of others. It is real life which informs my 'morality', not some sterile, abstract absolutism. But as so many humans in life do, people judge me without knowing my situation. I do not fall prey to goads to reveal the circumstances of my life to satisfy the curiosity of those who merely want to pry and are content to render judgement without knowing my stories. I tell the tales of my life when I believe they will help someone and for no other reason.

 

I tell you the above because once someone starts bashing someone else, peoples' tendency is to jump on that bandwagon and join the bash party.

 

I have been of assistance to several people at LS and I am absolutely delighted to have been so; however my ability to do so in the future will be compromised if the general impression of me which is allowed to prevail is that I am heavily invested in trumpeting my moral superiority over others. This is not and never has been the case, however there are a couple of people here intent on persuading the rest that that's who I am. And they don't know a thing about me. If they succeed in their goal, then my usefulness here will be ended. I would prefer that not happen since LS has afforded me the opportunity to be of service, which is my principal aim.

 

Merry

[meanon]

I have been of assistance to several people at LS

 

This is too modest, you have been of great assistance to many. Personally I have found your tone on some issues to be hurtful on rare occasions in the past, as you know. Recently IMO you have shown a greater sensitivity to others and an ability to let go when your advice is not getting through, further enhancing your ability to help others. That kind of change shows a great deal of emotional maturity and insight. It also takes guts. I think this is a debate harking back to issues which are largely resolved, at least as far as you are concerned. As is often the case, sensitivities remain. Let's not re-open old wounds. Post on Merry

[jenny]

yes, i think meanon is quite right, actually. there is a definite change in tone as of late.

 

further, moi is correct: i am very self-satisfied as well, and i rather like the title 'ms. pot,' particularly in this province. i simply needed to put my post in conjunction with the first post; it's nothing personal; i have no desire to resurrect epic battles. sorry if it bruised individual feelings; no hard feelings on this end whatsoever.

 

i expect i always will post in conjunction to posts like this; and for once i just don't mind taking the heat for it. cheers, babies!

[jester]

You see this PC cocooning especially among the upper middle class professional classes. As the father of two teenagers, your first instinct is to protect them from some, not all, adversity.You want your children to suffer enough so they develop a thick hide but not too much where they disintegrate. It's a balancing act.

 

As for hyper-sensitivity to others, I have a great story. My son attends a Quaker school, 9th grade. We're not Quakers, almost none of the students are. On the school's intranet a student was trying to get recruits for an AIDS Walk.

 

She sent an email TO OTHER STUDENTS stating "All the hot kids will be doing the AIDS Walk so please sign up." The School censored her email because it demonstrated disrespect to kids who weren't hot.

 

The poor girl then changed the message by substituting "cool" for "hot." Same result: censorship. Kids who weren't cool may have been offended.

 

I kid you not. It seems the less we interact with one another in real time, and real space, the more sensitive we become.

 

On the other issue, I agree with meanon.

[moimeme]

I appreciate that your intent is complimentary; I assure you, however, that I am no different. I put to you that 'hurtful' is in the eyes of the beholder; for my part, I have seen posters who have an excellent command of the language post immensely sarcastic and hurtful posts knowing that their meaning would not be picked up by a majority of readers, particularly the posters at whom their remarks are intended. My intent is never to wound and I believe most people understand that about me.

 

I also have no issue with my advice 'not getting through' other than there have been times when it was clear to me that my meaning was not understood and so I elaborated further because I assumed I had failed in explaining myself properly. There are so many more posters now that, quite often, another poster will post points I would have made in the discussion so I retire from the issue at hand. Still, however, if I think someone mistakes my meaning, I will persist in explaining myself until I think I've expressed my point coherently. I don't care if you disagree; I just want you to disagree with the point I've made and not the point you think I've made because I've not stated it in such a way as to be understood in the context I intend. I suppose to some who understand my point the first time around, that might look like me trying to overstate a case or pound it in; but it is not for those folks that I elabourate further and I would hope they understand that.

[yes]

i don't feel like reading the whole thread but the original thought moimeme expressed was very good, i believe - i feel that if my parents didn't try so hard to shelter me from difficulties, i'd have an easier time dealing with the problems when i did get to them.

 

-yes

[jester]

We parents just can't win.

[yes]

just let the kids be - let them get into trouble, let them learn abt life, - but show support and help out when they _really_ need it.

 

-yes

[moimeme]

It's counterintuitive to allow one's loved one to march headlong into trouble, but so long as the trouble isn't potentially fatal (and few are, thank heavens), it can be exactly what's needed on occasion.

[jester]

As much as it pains me as a parent to admit, I agree with both moi and yes--especially as to my hellion of a 16 yo daughter!

 

Let them get knocked around, but do your utmost to insure they don't get flattened.

[Thinkalot]

Hi..I've been away a few days, and so just read this one.

 

Firstly, I understand the sentiments expressed in the thread. I suffer self esteem problems, and sometimes I think I was so naive and innocent in the past, and protected, that I got hurt badly, and then had trouble trusting again, and became fearful. I was shocked by the way some people can behave! I thought everyone was as honest and trusting as me! No way!

 

Secondly, I am one of those who moimeme has helped immensely, both on this forum and through some PMs discussing my issues. Lshack in general has been a great help and support to me, as I work hard to overcome my issues, and Merry's words, often ring true. I like the fact that you do not "baby" people Merry- we know we will hear the harsh truth (from your perspective) whether we like it or not!

[Samson]

Well M's, as you know, sensabilities are so fragile that reading this thread has almost brought tears to my eyes. But, as delicate as my feelings can be, I'll try to respond (hopefully before the superbowl pre-game show begins).

 

I think we (that's all humans, not just you, M's, and me ) must experience much of the pain and frustration that indirect communication can cause before we appreciate directness for what extraordinary value it has, the truth, and not misconstrue meaning in an attempt at political correctness. This is perhaps part of sociological evolution as much as individual maturity.

 

For example, I teach 8th grade math, and almost 80% of my students are black, and lower income. We teach character education about once every three weeks for about 20 minutes. In February we will teach a lesson about "EMPATHY," and I proposed using the presentation at

 

http://members.cox.net/classicweb/Heroes/heroes.htm

 

The objection has been raised regarding a still-shot that shows a victim of 9/11 falling from the building with the caption "This Was Someone's Daughter." These scenes, and others seem to be purposefully repressed to protect the public, but without them, how can we learn to empathise?

[moimeme]

Samson

 

What's this? You have a heart? Can't be It is fascinating to me to hear that 'character education' is being taught!!!! Part of me is terrified that it's religious rightism, but I'll suspend cynicism for the moment since I don't know what it's about.

 

Paine's quote got me first; now I'm reaching for another Kleenex. It is very well done and it does a good job of getting the message across. I agree with you about empathy and I would be fascinated to know how others were affected by it - if at all.

 

I don't wish to spoil your point, and hope I don't, but the Aquarian/universal-brotherhood-believer in me wishes there'd be a similar film showing the sorts of images I saw of Iraquis in the war in a CBC documentary I posted a link about; every bit as heartbreaking and sad but illustrating the futility and tragedy of ALL violence; not just that directed at one's own. The families of non-combatants are every bit as shattered and torn by their losses no matter whose side they are on.

[Samson]

Other themes include "Responsibility" and "Respect" and "Accepting Criticism" and "Kindness"...........well, you get the picture. Interestingly, both political and religious discussions usually ensue.

 

I'm certainly not going to argue that one person's or nation's suffering is any worse than another "illustrating the futility and tragedy of ALL violence; not just that directed at one's own." Since the point of showing the video would be to exemplify "empathy" to American 8th graders, then having contents that show the purposeful wanton violence against Americans will most probably serve my purpose. (If I was teaching Iraqui 8th graders, perhaps I'd show the result of Saddam's use of chemical weapons against Kurdish civilians.)

 

But, I digress, since my point was more designed to address your original posting, and to agree that shielding from the truth, sometimes particularly when the truth is painful, is counter-productive.

[Arabess]

I applaud you Samson. Eighth graders are HELL! I have one of those........

[BlockHead]

moimeme

It is one thing to not be openly insulting or abusive of people, but it goes too far, IMHO, when people are supposed to refrain from any remark which might possibly offend one or a few people - and I am NOT talking about bigotry or racism - just strong comments or jokes or - well - any remarks, basically.

Arabess

Truth is....as adults....there will always be bullies and bosses we don't like. How we deal with this as adults....comes from how we dealt with the mean kids and bad teachers when we were in school.

Did anybody learn from the Colombine high school shooting? Apparently not!

Was the problem racism, sexism, classism, or antisematism? No, it was the pecking order.

Why do people refuse to believe that it exists, and deal with it? Maybe scapegoats are a necessary part of any society. Maybe it is an ugly thing people refuse to give up.

moimeme

I don't think any favours are done anyone when we throw shields over them to protect them from the tiniest possible maybe-if-you-play-it-backwards-on-Thursday thing which might bother them. Life can be truly rotten sometimes; the only way to manage the wretchedness is to be able to deal with the minor annoyances without running and hiding from them. Else when the true garbage hits, you'll be crippled.

Let’s throw the weak to the wolves. They must learn to deal with it if they are to function in society.

[brashgal]

It's precisely because of situations like Colombine that we are more vigilant in trying to protect our children. I'm not so sure I want my son standing up to someone who pulls a knife or a gun on him. And I would be quick to notify the school if I heard from my children that one of their classmates was carrying a knife or a gun or making racial comments and if I felt the school was not acting quickly enough, I would involve the police. When I was growing up I think my parents would have tried to work with the family instead - I don't feel that same sense of community, I don't trust that other parents have the same values or would take appropriate action.

 

Unfortunately, kids sometimes have to deal with the "true garbage" earlier in life, before they are equipped to handle it. As a parent, I feel the need to step in.

[EnigmaXOXO]

Thought you'd find this little clip interesting.

 

Hope the link works!

 

http://www.bowlingforcolumbine.com/media/clips/windowsmedia.php?Clip=cartoon1021LG

[BlockHead]

brashgal

And I would be quick to notify the school if I heard from my children that one of their classmates was carrying a knife or a gun or making racial comments and if I felt the school was not acting quickly enough, I would involve the police.

You still don’t understand.

What about protecting a kid’s psychological boundaries as well as his physical boundaries? Are you just as concerned about you child’s spirit being broken?

brashgal

Unfortunately, kids sometimes have to deal with the "true garbage" earlier in life, before they are equipped to handle it.

Yes, the myth of a fair fight. One vs. one.

Keep dreaming because fights are never fair.

 

What are guns? Guns are the ultimate equalizer. Practically anybody can aim one and fire it. Big or small, one bullet is enough to kill anybody.

 

brashgal

Maybe you were too far up in the pecking order to notice it.

 

Kids at the bottom of the pecking order don’t deal with one or two bullies. Instead, they face a whole crowd of kids. Call it ‘natural selection’ if you want.

 

EnigmaXOXO

There is nothing I like more than liberal propaganda.

Maybe if we blamed inanimate objects like guns, maybe people won’t have to deal with the real issues. Scapegoating was around for thousands of years. Why change that?