Prison Rape

[sally4sara]

Sally4sara I just think you are ignorant when it comes to this subject. Your attitude toward instutionalizing people is ridiculous. How do you feel about all the people who get released and come out so institutionalized that prison is all they know so they go out and comit violent crimes as if being violent is all they know.

 

Plus I've heard of people going in to prison for things such a criminal DUI and getting raped. Then when they tell the gaurds no one cares. Children who go into the juvinile system get sexualy abused not only by the other children but the gaurds.

 

If you want to discuss the standards for hiring cops or guards, start another thread - it is a different topic. It plays into this at some point, but no amount of criminal behavior of guards CAUSES violent criminals to commit their crimes that put them in prison in the first place.

 

If you want to discuss abusive or overly permissive parenting and the hand it plays in juvenile crime - it too will be a different topic.

 

And as for my ignorance - well it can't always be your job now can it?

I do not feel terribly upset when violent criminals get some dished back. Why don't you put all your outrage into welcoming some of these violent criminals into your home upon their release? Or circumvent; offer your home as an alternative to prison? Call me ignorant? I'll see your judgment and raise one concerning your naivety. We could just kill them since they are violent, will seek more victims anywhere they are put, and our current systems perpetuates the problem. Is that better?

 

It still plays out. They are in prison, they know they are watched. They know what can happen if they are caught raping another inmate. They still DO IT. To make the punishment for it harsher - you have to set something up that prevents false accusations. More cameras will not be the answer if the the crimes being videoed are committed by people who do not fear the consequences.

[stillafool]

All my life I hear the jokes and warnings about if you go to prison you have a good chance of getting raped. Why the heck do we allow prison rape to happen. I think it especialy sick when people say something like "it's just part of the punishment."

 

 

I think it is awful and it is one of the things I wish would stop immediately! I think law enforcement uses it to scare the hell out of people is one of the reasons they won't put an end to it. It could be easily controlled if they wanted it to be.

[Taramere]

All my life I hear the jokes and warnings about if you go to prison you have a good chance of getting raped. Why the heck do we allow prison rape to happen. I think it especialy sick when people say something like "it's just part of the punishment."

 

I couldn't agree more. I find it seriously creepy that anybody actually relishes the notion of another person getting raped or sexually abused or finds it good fodder for jokes. Regardless of what that person has done. Their crime is irrelevant - they pay for it with a temporary loss of freedom..not by being tortured or sexually abused by other prisoners (or even guards - who, if they are involved with or collude in such stuff, are criminals who merit being locked up themselves).

 

Remember when Paris Hilton went to prison for a driving offence? The gloating (with a subtext of gloating about sexual abuse that might happen to her in there) reflected really badly on the people who indulged themselves in it.

Edited June 7, 2010 by Taramere

[Green]

I couldn't agree more. I find it seriously creepy that anybody actually relishes the notion of another person getting raped or sexually abused or finds it good fodder for jokes. Regardless of what that person has done. Their crime is irrelevant - they pay for it with a temporary loss of freedom..not by being tortured or sexually abused by other prisoners (or even guards - who, if they are involved with or collude in such stuff, are criminals who merit being locked up themselves).

 

Remember when Paris Hilton went to prison for a driving offence? The gloating (with a subtext of gloating about sexual abuse that might happen to her in there) reflected really badly on the people who indulged themselves in it.

 

Sally4sara seems to be for prison rape.

[Taramere]

Sally4sara seems to be for prison rape.

 

I think she's expressing the view that child molesters or sex offenders are most at risk, on the basis that other prisoners have a fear of such people attacking their own loved ones while they're not around to protect them. Then she said that these violent, sex offenders don't come high on the list of people whose fate she cares about. That's not the same as saying "I hope they get raped" or joking about it happening.

 

Sexual offenders cause untold amounts of misery....not least because their crimes so often go undetected and unreported. My feeling is that human rights must be extended to those people along with everyone else, as is the mark of a civilised society. A reasonable amount of effort should be put into protecting them from the harm others would inflict on them, that they themselves inflicted and were put away for.

 

They are, however, a cancer in society. The notion of them being raped by other prisoners gives me a sense of revulsion and pity, but it's a similar sense of revulsion and pity that I'd feel for a wasp in its death throes. Just a general abhorrence of seeing a living thing in that amount of pain and torture. Whereas an innocent victim would inspire a strongly protective emotional response in me, when it comes to sex offenders it's more a dutiful sense of "they must be contained in a civilised and humane manner." I think Sally is maybe just one step away from that thinking whereby she's somewhat less concerned than I am with the notion of society having a duty to contain them in a civilised manner. I wouldn't see that as her being in support of prison rape by any means. It's more like she's saying "look, I really don't care. These people aren't my priority - I care more about innocent victims." A sentiment that I think many could relate to.

[sally4sara]

I think she's expressing the view that child molesters or sex offenders are most at risk, on the basis that other prisoners have a fear of such people attacking their own loved ones while they're not around to protect them. Then she said that these violent, sex offenders don't come high on the list of people whose fate she cares about. That's not the same as saying "I hope they get raped" or joking about it happening.

 

Sexual offenders cause untold amounts of misery....not least because their crimes so often go undetected and unreported. My feeling is that human rights must be extended to those people along with everyone else, as is the mark of a civilised society. A reasonable amount of effort should be put into protecting them from the harm others would inflict on them, that they themselves inflicted and were put away for.

 

They are, however, a cancer in society. The notion of them being raped by other prisoners gives me a sense of revulsion and pity, but it's a similar sense of revulsion and pity that I'd feel for a wasp in its death throes. Just a general abhorrence of seeing a living thing in that amount of pain and torture. Whereas an innocent victim would inspire a strongly protective emotional response in me, when it comes to sex offenders it's more a dutiful sense of "they must be contained in a civilised and humane manner." I think Sally is maybe just one step away from that thinking whereby she's somewhat less concerned than I am with the notion of society having a duty to contain them in a civilised manner. I wouldn't see that as her being in support of prison rape by any means. It's more like she's saying "look, I really don't care. These people aren't my priority - I care more about innocent victims." A sentiment that I think many could relate to.

 

Yes exactly and thank you for that Taramere. This is one of the reasons I love your posts and value your input on this site. You are one of the bright lights on this site.

 

Green, for Pete's sake! There is a registry for sex offenders. If it was THAT important to me that they be raped, I could easily find the ones in my area and see to it that it happened. Need to work on that reading comprehension! In even clearly stated I don't think rape is funny.

[Taramere]

Yes exactly and thank you for that Taramere. This is one of the reasons I love your posts and value your input on this site. You are one of the bright lights on this site.

 

Thanks, S - and ditto. I would have let you answer for yourself, but Green had directed the post to me so, you know...

 

On the subject of prison rape, I thought this was an interesting article...and very much on point for this particular thread:

 

http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/March-April-2004/feature_brook_marapr04.msp

 

While humor about conventional rape has always been taboo, jokes about prison rape remain common. A recent 7-Up ad, eventually pulled from the air, depicted a spokesman handing out 7-Up in prison. When he accidentally drops a can, he says, "I'm not picking that up." Later, the spot shows the spokesman sitting in a cell, being hugged by an inmate. "When you bring the 7-Up, everyone is your friend," he says nervously. "Okay, that's enough being friends," he adds as the cell door slams. The insinuation of what's going to happen next is clear—and it's played for a laugh.

 

 

What I'm not clear about, with regard to jokes about prison rape, is whether the joke is about the violence of rape or whether the ridicule is being directed towards homosexuality. I think it might be the latter...and perhaps also an element of ridicule about men being degraded by being treated "like women". As the article puts it:

 

Victims are given women's names and made to perform household tasks such as cooking food, washing clothes, and cleaning the living space.

[SoleMate]

Prison rape is a huge and horrible problem.

 

We do not need to set concern about prison rape against concern about rape on the outside. They are both horrible crimes and we as a society can choose to deal with both of them.

 

50+ years ago, (non-prison) rape was often considered a big joke and/or a usually false accusation. However, society has changed and we now, in the US in many/most cases, treat rape outside the prison as a serious crime.

 

It may once have been true that most prison inmates were violent, vicious people who were bound to prey on anyone they could. However, these days, with There Strikes, closure of mental institutions, "getting touch on crime" laws, and the growth of the prison population, the majority of people incarcerated have not committed crimes of violence. There are people serving life sentences in California for petty property crimes.

 

It's time for the same change with respect to prison rape. It's time for everyone, inside and out, to understand that rape is NOT an appropriate "part of the punishment". Incarceration IS the punishment. Punishment should be adjudged with due process and meted out by the state, NOT left to the whims of the undoubted minority of prisoners who are only to happy to continue their violent crimes on the inside.

 

The "don't drop the soap" jokes do not indicate the reality. Many victims of prison rape are female prisoners raped by guards. This problem has been endemic in Michigan for years. http://www.freep.com/article/20090721/OPINION05/90721056/Ending-prisoner-rape-in-Michigan The victim/prisoners are typically abused, impoverished women from the lower socioeconomic ranks (like most imprisoned women). I do not believe that repeated in-prison rape by guards is an appropriate punishment for passing bad checks or any of the other two-bit non-violent crimes that many women do time for.

 

And yes, the technology, policies, and operating procedures to greatly reduce prison rape do exist. We're spending many 100s of billion$$$ on prisons every year in the US...2% dedicated to ending rape and other violence in prisons would go a long way.

[sally4sara]

One of the things I wonder about in regards to this topic is the instances of consensual prison sex by inmates that would prefer a different gendered partner, but will have gay sex if hetero sex is not available. I wonder if the sex appears similar to rape because it might be a resentful act.

 

Say I'm a prison guard. I'm strolling through the cell block on the night shift. I pass one cell where the two inmates are just going at it and it is not your love making style, but the catcher is not protesting.

The next cell is two other inmates going at it in a more casual pace, but I hear the catcher saying "no".

 

I'd react to the "no", but I'm not sure what I'd make of the other two. Could this lend to the attitudes of guards concerning prison rape? What if, as a guard, I put a stop to the first two only to find it was consensual? Could that also color my reactions to prison sex?

 

Seeing as I've never been a prison guard, I don't know if they are, by order, suppose to put a stop to any sexual interaction they find. I would think they would be expected to do that, but if you just as often find it consensual - wouldn't stopping two people from consensual release just cause more instances of inmates being targeted for non-consensual sex?

 

Rape outside of prison does play into prison rape because if we cannot stop violent people from raping outside of prison, what hope do we have of preventing it from happening when we put those violent people together in a setting they cannot flee? You've taken the people most likely to be sexually violent and given them hundreds of captive victims at their disposal. The joking, I believe, is due to a "well what did you expect would happen" reaction. Take a look at comedy. Almost every joke is derived from the pain or distress of someone. Its what we do when faced with something awful we seem to be incapable of doing anything about. We crack a joke so we don't just go effin mad over the insurmountable horrors we see all around us.

 

I was in Vegas a few moths ago during the electronics convention. Standing in line for a coffee, two guys from the convention were talking behind me. One was raving about Grand Theft Auto to the other who said he was not really into gaming and had never played it. THE FIRST SELLING POINT the guy who liked the game offered was how you can rape prostitutes or solicit and then run them over to get your money back! He saw me shoot him an eye and said "I'm just joking". Uhhuh, cause rape is just so damn funny.

[Taramere]

Rape is one of those most peculiar of crimes in that technically it's regarded as being close (in terms of severity of the offence) to murder...and yet there are so many, many people who get raped and don't report it. So many people walking free who have raped another person, and got away with it.

 

Someone tells a joke about rape, and I think "well, for all I know you have been raped and this is your coping mechanism. Or else you have raped someone and joking about rape is your way of reassuring yourself that what you did wasn't all that serious."

 

That's probably what I hate most about those jokes. On some level I always feel as though failure to laugh will the equivalent of saying to the joke-teller "I wonder if you've ever raped someone. You look the type."

 

Actually come to think of it perhaps that's the ideal response to those jokes. If the joke teller gets angry, you can always just say "what? It's just my dark brand of humour. Can't you take a joke?"

[SouthernSunshine]

It's even worse when the rapist is a prison guard.

 

So very disturbing.. The vicitm goes into survival mode, so he finds another guy to shack up with in order to have someone protect him. So basically, the prisoner's options are either get raped violently by several men, or do sexual favors for one particular man who will protect him from the rest.

[NoIDidn't]

I remember a studies about a decade back involving rats in prison-like conditions.

 

They started raping each other and also willingly entering into homosexual relations after a while.

[pureinheart]

All my life I hear the jokes and warnings about if you go to prison you have a good chance of getting raped. Why the heck do we allow prison rape to happen. I think it especialy sick when people say something like "it's just part of the punishment."

 

Laws for one and then strict enforcement. Plus I feel like prisons themselves allow it to happen.

 

Prison Rape for me is a sign of everything that is wrong with the prison system. Its a place that makes people worse, HECK IT MAKES THEM RAPIST

 

Hi Green,

 

Wow, I am in awe concerning what you have to say about this matter...and I had never thought about it this way (in bold), although it's the sad truth.

 

In essence, what we as a society are doing is locking people up to get them out of our hair, so that we can go on with our daily lives and who gives a sh*t what goes on from there. We stimulate the economy with jobs for the entire prison system (which is mostlikely why we do have return "offenders", think about it...there is a market for crime even in society)...job security...why rehabilitate...worse yet, let's traumatise them in the process...

 

Then the individual gets out and is worse than before and we do the same thing all over again...basically "ground hog day".

 

IMO almost everyone who has ever been on this earth, has done something to be incarcerated for...they just never got caught, that is the big difference.

 

This is an excellent topic Green....

[pureinheart]

Rape is one of those most peculiar of crimes in that technically it's regarded as being close (in terms of severity of the offence) to murder...and yet there are so many, many people who get raped and don't report it. So many people walking free who have raped another person, and got away with it.

 

Someone tells a joke about rape, and I think "well, for all I know you have been raped and this is your coping mechanism. Or else you have raped someone and joking about rape is your way of reassuring yourself that what you did wasn't all that serious."

 

That's probably what I hate most about those jokes. On some level I always feel as though failure to laugh will the equivalent of saying to the joke-teller "I wonder if you've ever raped someone. You look the type."

 

Actually come to think of it perhaps that's the ideal response to those jokes. If the joke teller gets angry, you can always just say "what? It's just my dark brand of humour. Can't you take a joke?"

 

 

 

Rape jokes are in extremely poor taste, and I think your right, I think they have been abused prior...

 

 

 

It's even worse when the rapist is a prison guard.

 

So very disturbing.. The vicitm goes into survival mode, so he finds another guy to shack up with in order to have someone protect him. So basically, the prisoner's options are either get raped violently by several men, or do sexual favors for one particular man who will protect him from the rest.

 

 

My friend said this goes on all of the time...many of my family and friends have been incarcerated at one point in their lives...trust me, it's not like what you see on tv or reality shows...not even close.

[pureinheart]

One of the things I wonder about in regards to this topic is the instances of consensual prison sex by inmates that would prefer a different gendered partner, but will have gay sex if hetero sex is not available. I wonder if the sex appears similar to rape because it might be a resentful act.

 

Say I'm a prison guard. I'm strolling through the cell block on the night shift. I pass one cell where the two inmates are just going at it and it is not your love making style, but the catcher is not protesting.

The next cell is two other inmates going at it in a more casual pace, but I hear the catcher saying "no".

 

I'd react to the "no", but I'm not sure what I'd make of the other two. Could this lend to the attitudes of guards concerning prison rape? What if, as a guard, I put a stop to the first two only to find it was consensual? Could that also color my reactions to prison sex?

 

Seeing as I've never been a prison guard, I don't know if they are, by order, suppose to put a stop to any sexual interaction they find. I would think they would be expected to do that, but if you just as often find it consensual - wouldn't stopping two people from consensual release just cause more instances of inmates being targeted for non-consensual sex?

 

Rape outside of prison does play into prison rape because if we cannot stop violent people from raping outside of prison, what hope do we have of preventing it from happening when we put those violent people together in a setting they cannot flee? You've taken the people most likely to be sexually violent and given them hundreds of captive victims at their disposal. The joking, I believe, is due to a "well what did you expect would happen" reaction. Take a look at comedy. Almost every joke is derived from the pain or distress of someone. Its what we do when faced with something awful we seem to be incapable of doing anything about. We crack a joke so we don't just go effin mad over the insurmountable horrors we see all around us.

 

I was in Vegas a few moths ago during the electronics convention. Standing in line for a coffee, two guys from the convention were talking behind me. One was raving about Grand Theft Auto to the other who said he was not really into gaming and had never played it. THE FIRST SELLING POINT the guy who liked the game offered was how you can rape prostitutes or solicit and then run them over to get your money back! He saw me shoot him an eye and said "I'm just joking". Uhhuh, cause rape is just so damn funny.

 

Ya Sally the guards are supposed to report it and no sex is allowed...the inmates are to be separated...so if two inmates are having an "affair" (I'll call it) they have to hide it from the guards.

 

In 2nd bold...that is freaking sick...sorry that you had to be exposed to such abuse.:sick:

[pureinheart]

I think it is awful and it is one of the things I wish would stop immediately! I think law enforcement uses it to scare the hell out of people is one of the reasons they won't put an end to it. It could be easily controlled if they wanted it to be.

 

200% agree....think about it...if we actually cause rehabilitation, we don't need as many cops, jails, guards, all of the workers in the court system, clothing manufacturers for various uniforms...I mean this list is endless...

 

The need for all of this is being created not eliminated.

[Green]

200% agree....think about it...if we actually cause rehabilitation, we don't need as many cops, jails, guards, all of the workers in the court system, clothing manufacturers for various uniforms...I mean this list is endless...

 

The need for all of this is being created not eliminated.

 

I think the jobs it creates are really sad. Wouldn't be great if new University or Hospital came to town to employ every one. No a new super max prison comes to town and sure it needs gaurds and people to work at it... but that kind of job must leave a mark on a person

[Major]

Actually, one of my friend's son had to do time because of something he was involved in and he was fairly young and of course we were concerned. However, I have another friend who is a police officer, and he said, unfortunately, the guards can't be everywhere all the time, even with cameras. The thing is, these are males and males are highly sexual. Unfortunately, it happens during war times when no women are around and it happens in Catholic churches when men try to suppress their natural, sexual inclinations. They prey on those who are weaker than they are. Yes, it happens in prison and in other instances too. I have also researched articles of prisoners who were incarcerated for a long time, and were eventually released. This gentleman, had changed his life and was doing well. However, he was talking about bi-sexuality. Not as a result of a free choice like we would have as civilian, but as a lifestyle that he was apart of because of his time in prison. It wasn't gross or anything derogatory. He was just explaining that when a man is incarcerated for so many years, it's difficult not to participate in sexual relationships with another man. He explained that there was the animalistic rape with no respect to others. However, there was also consensual sex between two male partners. It's just apart of that climate unfortunately and it's also difficult for a rehabilitated man, who was totally heterosexual prior to being incarcerated to be solely with women. It's just the truth.

[Major]

Actually, one of my friend's son had to do time because of something he was involved in and he was fairly young and of course we were concerned. However, I have another friend who is a police officer, and he said, unfortunately, the guards can't be everywhere all the time, even with cameras. The thing is, these are males and males are highly sexual. Unfortunately, it happens during war times when no women are around and it happens in Catholic churches when men try to suppress their natural, sexual inclinations. They prey on those who are weaker than they are. Yes, it happens in prison and in other instances too. I have also researched articles of prisoners who were incarcerated for a long time, and were eventually released. This gentleman, had changed his life and was doing well. However, he was talking about bi-sexuality. Not as a result of a free choice like we would have as civilian, but as a lifestyle that he was apart of because of his time in prison. It wasn't gross or anything derogatory. He was just explaining that when a man is incarcerated for so many years, it's difficult not to participate in sexual relationships with another man. He explained that there was the animalistic rape with no respect to others. However, there was also consensual sex between two male partners. It's just apart of that climate unfortunately and it's also difficult for a rehabilitated man, who was totally heterosexual prior to being incarcerated to be solely with women. It's just the truth.

Just my opinion, I think if most of these men have wives or girlfriends when they go in, that they should allow conjugal visits. I know that prison is supposed to be a punishment, however, if their incarceration isn't due to sexual, crimes of any sort, I think this is an option to deter the violence in prison and rape. Men will always express themselves in aggressive terms when sexual urges aren't satisfied. Just my opinion.

[Diezel]

Here's how you avoid prison rape:

 

DON'T COMMIT CRIMES.

 

If not, you might have to face this guy: