Multiple D-Days for BS and OW. What really is the difference?

[jennie-jennie]

I understand that completely. But your implied message was that your MM opted to lie to his wife as his choice...implying a negative about the relationship with his wife.

 

Not true.

 

His "choice" was to keep both of you, rather than own up to what he's been doing and actually make a decision.

 

It wasn't a situation where his wife "lost". It was a situation where he got away with doing what he was doing by choosing to lie rather than actually making a decision.

 

I actually did start writing a sentence about him wanting to keep us both, so no, no implying that his wife "lost". That was an interpretation you made, Owl. But he did choose to treat his wife pretty crappy in my opinion.

[jennie-jennie]

Jennie, has there been more than one D-Day for you two?

 

No, there hasn't. Although his wife has lately been insinuating when he comes home late from work, that he has been with his other woman. Ironically enough, often on days when he has been working late rather than having been with me.

Edited June 7, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[Owl]

I can only tell you how it "sounded" to me, but if it made ME feel that was your intent, odds are good others would have picked up that same sentiment.

 

And I'd agree he treated her pretty crappy. I'd consider having an affair as falling into that "crappy" category even regardless of the events of d-day.

[jennie-jennie]

I can only tell you how it "sounded" to me, but if it made ME feel that was your intent, odds are good others would have picked up that same sentiment.

 

And I'd agree he treated her pretty crappy. I'd consider having an affair as falling into that "crappy" category even regardless of the events of d-day.

 

Well, you are correct in as much as I consider it to be a negative about his relationship with his wife that he lies to her. Their relationship is obviously not based on honesty.

[silktricks]

Jennie, has there been more than one D-Day for you two?

 

Did you feel at rejected, that he chose to lie about you? I know that your relaionship is different inthat he's always told you he won't leave, so it's not the same as the OW who is told that it will be "soon". Still he did reject your existence/importance to him. Did you find that at all painful?

[jennie-jennie]

Did you feel at rejected, that he chose to lie about you? I know that your relaionship is different inthat he's always told you he won't leave, so it's not the same as the OW who is told that it will be "soon". Still he did reject your existence/importance to him. Did you find that at all painful?

 

Hmm, it is four years ago so I will have to try and remember. I remember feeling like finally something in the right direction was happening. I did hope that he would be up front with her so all would be out in the open, though I was worried too that he would decide to end our relationship.

 

I can't remember feeling rejected, but as I said it is a long time ago. What I remember most is relief that he didn't end it with me.

 

Even though he did reassure her, she lay in bed for three days depressed, and she chose to send him an email about her feelings. (This was what she had discovered, him sending an email to me. I don't think she has ever sent him an email neither before nor after that.) He read her email out loud to me. To me that told me where his loyalties lie. I don't know about you, but if I had written a letter like that being the BS, and my husband read it aloud to his OW, that is major betrayal in my book.

 

I believe he answered her by email too, and read his response aloud to me.

[Silly_Girl]

I remember feeling like finally something in the right direction was happening. I did hope that he would be up front with her so all would be out in the open, though I was worried too that he would decide to end our relationship.

 

-------------

 

He read her email out loud to me. To me that told me where his loyalties lie.

 

To me (new to this game!), you hoped he would 'fess up, and by him not doing so shows his loyalties did not lie with you. He had the perfect chance to prove to all parties where his loyalties lie.

[jennie-jennie]

To me (new to this game!), you hoped he would 'fess up, and by him not doing so shows his loyalties did not lie with you. He had the perfect chance to prove to all parties where his loyalties lie.

 

It is true his loyalties lie with us both, that is why he is still married and still in an extramarital relationship.

 

But that Dday was too early in the game, I can see that now, to be a real opportunity for him to confess. We still only had an EA. We had not yet met again in real life. (This was just before.) He did have a happy marriage before our reconnection and has a whole bunch of kids. It could not be expected for him to choose me after not having seen me for decades.

 

A confession had ended all chances of us meeting again. He did what he had to do to protect our relationship.

[whichwayisup]

Guess my MM's gut reaction was to deny, deny, deny and gaslight his wife then!

 

Very sweet of him. I know you love him and all, but the way he treated her, disrespected her, lied/omitted YOU in a sense, let alone gaslit her (that's just cruel to do someone too) , he could do to YOU one day.

 

I think what is bothersome in your situation is, your MM is basically living a double life right under his wife's nose. You are happy enough to settle, that's your right, but what he is doing is totally unfair and downright CRUEL to have two women and be that selfish. He will never leave either of you unless you dump him or his wife dumps him. Because he's used to two women meeting ALL his needs, like a King.

[jennie-jennie]

Very sweet of him. I know you love him and all, but the way he treated her, disrespected her, lied/omitted YOU in a sense, let alone gaslit her (that's just cruel to do someone too) , he could do to YOU one day.

 

I think what is bothersome in your situation is, your MM is basically living a double life right under his wife's nose. You are happy enough to settle, that's your right, but what he is doing is totally unfair and downright CRUEL to have two women and be that selfish. He will never leave either of you unless you dump him or his wife dumps him. Because he's used to two women meeting ALL his needs, like a King.

 

Oh my God, could he? The difference is she told him she'd kill him if he ever had an affair. I know he is capable of having one, so we discuss what to do to protect our relationship against that.

 

And just because it would be to settle for you, does not mean it is to settle for me.

[fooled once]

IMO, what you do - what choices you make - when making them under stress says everything about what you really want, what you really find important. Those are the times that really show what is important to you. When in a moment of panic a mother will usually attempt to save her child before herself - that shows where her heart lies - with her child. That is not a mistake, as I'm certain you will agree.

 

The fact that after the stress is over, other things sometimes kick in and we say - wait a minute - maybe I don't really want that... The heart is fickle - but the choice I personally would trust the most is the one made when under stress. That choice shows the true colors. IMO.

 

The fact is, I didn't have a "D-Day" as did most who post here. I didn't discover something. My H told me. I can't tell you how many times I used to wish the I did discover it - that I saw exactly what his choice was when under stress. That would have told me more in many ways than how I did find out - I believe it would have made my recovery time shorter as well.

 

What I bolded is so dead on! Instinct kicks in and you protect the one you love/need/etc.

 

The man I had an affair with - his wife found out about us. In fact, I even spoke with her and we compared stories. Guess he did a lot of lying - shocking huh?

 

I understand her fighting for her husband -- I can tell you, like GEL, I would fight for my H unless I saw in his eyes there was no reason to fight.

 

To me, once the MM minimizes the OW to the wife, when he has the perfect opportunity to come clean, that is very telling (I am talking about the situations where the OW has been told she is the love of his life, she is his soul mate, she is the one he wants to be with, blah blah blah...)

 

Spending years and years waiting for someone .... I just don't get. Especially when there has been a D Day. To know he is capable of gaslighting BOTH women, lieing to both women (I know, I know, the MM doesn't lie to the OW ), the waiting and waiting and waiting.... just makes me sad for the woman who most likely, IMHO, ever truly have a relationship with this guy and NOT be sharing him with his wife. If he hasn't made up his mind after a year, I don't see him making his mind up. He - like WWIP just said - is having his needs met by both and he more than likely has no desire to give that up.

[NoIDidn't]

I get the panic thing, but I think the person the MM is trying to save is simply himself from having to explain to two women why he isn't who he claims to be.

 

It isn't about who he loves or who he wants. Its about "easy" and saving himself any additional stress. Those of us who have actually been with and around the MM during most of the time of the "d-day stress" know that the first thing they say is "I don't want to talk about this right now". And its only because they are waiting for the dust to settle to see if they can get out of it without having to prove to anyone who they love the most.

[silktricks]

I get the panic thing, but I think the person the MM is trying to save is simply himself from having to explain to two women why he isn't who he claims to be.

 

It isn't about who he loves or who he wants. Its about "easy" and saving himself any additional stress. Those of us who have actually been with and around the MM during most of the time of the "d-day stress" know that the first thing they say is "I don't want to talk about this right now". And its only because they are waiting for the dust to settle to see if they can get out of it without having to prove to anyone who they love the most.

 

Like I said before - I didn't truly have a D-Day in the sense of this thread, but I do know me well enough that I wouldn't have let him (or anyone) get away with this. I wouldn't permit time to "let the dust settle". He'd be out the door.

[NoIDidn't]

I think some of us differ in how we define "d-days".

 

I define it as anything relating to the A that negatively affects it and the marriage, causing all the players to interact in someway about realities and the fantasies the APs have created for themselves.

 

I say I had two d-days. Not because there was anything significant going on between one and two, but because I had to confront my H about his actions twice before I got what I wanted. There were about three weeks between them.

 

I don't know what d-day means to an OW, honestly. I told my H I knew of the A and wanted it over so we could deal with us. He promised to stop speaking to her about personal things. He lied. I knew he lied but needed concrete proof before I confronted him again. I got it. Maybe some wouldn't consider this to be two separate d-days, but a long extended one d-day. Anyone?

[jennie-jennie]

I think some of us differ in how we define "d-days".

I define it as anything relating to the A that negatively affects it and the marriage, causing all the players to interact in someway about realities and the fantasies the APs have created for themselves.

 

I say I had two d-days. Not because there was anything significant going on between one and two, but because I had to confront my H about his actions twice before I got what I wanted. There were about three weeks between them.

 

I don't know what d-day means to an OW, honestly. I told my H I knew of the A and wanted it over so we could deal with us. He promised to stop speaking to her about personal things. He lied. I knew he lied but needed concrete proof before I confronted him again. I got it. Maybe some wouldn't consider this to be two separate d-days, but a long extended one d-day. Anyone?

 

Dday means discovery-day, right? So the Dday we had was when the BS noticed that her husband closed the laptop too quickly. It made her suspicious and she questioned what he was doing that he obviously wanted to hide. He told her he was in contact with an old friend and gave her my name and place of residence, although he downplayed the extent and meaning of our contact.

 

Would this not qualify as a Dday according to you? I am confused now, NID, about what you were saying in your post above.

[NoIDidn't]

Dday means discovery-day, right? So the Dday we had was when the BS noticed that her husband closed the laptop too quickly. It made her suspicious and she questioned what he was doing that he obviously wanted to hide. He told her he was in contact with an old friend and gave her my name and location, although he downplayed the extent and meaning of our contact.

 

Would this not qualify as a Dday according to you? I am confused now, NID, about what you were saying in your post above.

 

No, I think you are taking what I said to an extreme (as usually happens here) that was not intended.

 

Justing arousing suspicion is not a d-day. D-day involves confrontations AND revelations. If the MM is able to convince his W that her suspicion is unfounded and the OW does not end up involved, its not a d-day, IMO. And it certainly doesn't mean that hte W "knows" about the OW.

 

D-day is discovery and decision day.

 

Maybe my first post was a little confusing, because I was not relating suspicion to d-day in that manner.

[jennie-jennie]

I get the panic thing, but I think the person the MM is trying to save is simply himself from having to explain to two women why he isn't who he claims to be.

 

It isn't about who he loves or who he wants. Its about "easy" and saving himself any additional stress. Those of us who have actually been with and around the MM during most of the time of the "d-day stress" know that the first thing they say is "I don't want to talk about this right now". And its only because they are waiting for the dust to settle to see if they can get out of it without having to prove to anyone who they love the most.

 

This is not my experience as the BS. My SOs answered all my questions pretty straight forward.

[NoIDidn't]

This is not my experience as the BS. My SOs answered all my questions pretty straight forward.

 

A general statement was made, so why does everything have to be taken so personally by some?

 

Generally, the questions are answered until the wall of "I don't want to talk about it" is hit. That's not so uncommon as to make your experience a model experience of some sort.

[Fieldsofgold]

 

. . . Generally, the questions are answered until the wall of "I don't want to talk about it" is hit. . . .

 

That is so true! And then if you ask about it later, like a day or a week later, you're accused of "bringing up the past." Did anyone else get the "past" excuse?

[jennie-jennie]

A general statement was made, so why does everything have to be taken so personally by some?

 

Generally, the questions are answered until the wall of "I don't want to talk about it" is hit. That's not so uncommon as to make your experience a model experience of some sort.

 

Your statement was way too general for me, especially since it contained the words "those of us who have actually been with and around the MM during most of the time of the 'd-day-stress' know", implying that this was common knowledge for BSs, but not for OW. Having actually been a BS who was with and around on multiple Ddays, I felt the need to point out that this was not all-encompassingly true.

 

I would appreciate if I could make a comment as to the validity of your statement without being referred to as taking things personally. All we really have is personal experience. If we can't bring that up, it would be difficult to have a discussion at all.

 

I get the panic thing, but I think the person the MM is trying to save is simply himself from having to explain to two women why he isn't who he claims to be.

 

It isn't about who he loves or who he wants. Its about "easy" and saving himself any additional stress. Those of us who have actually been with and around the MM during most of the time of the "d-day stress" know that the first thing they say is "I don't want to talk about this right now". And its only because they are waiting for the dust to settle to see if they can get out of it without having to prove to anyone who they love the most.

Edited June 8, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[jennie-jennie]

That is so true! And then if you ask about it later, like a day or a week later, you're accused of "bringing up the past." Did anyone else get the "past" excuse?

 

Nope, not even when I questioned my BS 20 years later again, when he had accidentally brought up one of the OW in front of me to a friend.

[silktricks]

That is so true! And then if you ask about it later, like a day or a week later, you're accused of "bringing up the past." Did anyone else get the "past" excuse?

 

No, never.

[silktricks]

It is true his loyalties lie with us both, that is why he is still married and still in an extramarital relationship.

 

But that Dday was too early in the game, I can see that now, to be a real opportunity for him to confess. We still only had an EA. We had not yet met again in real life. (This was just before.) He did have a happy marriage before our reconnection and has a whole bunch of kids. It could not be expected for him to choose me after not having seen me for decades.

 

A confession had ended all chances of us meeting again. He did what he had to do to protect our relationship.

 

I can understand this, and why he would "deny, deny, deny"

 

Though it's impossible to really know what one will do under certain circumstances, what do you think he would do should he be caught out now? Would he "deny, deny, deny" again, do you think? And if he did, what would you do? (I know this is pure speculation, but what do you think/believe would happen?)

[jennie-jennie]

I can understand this, and why he would "deny, deny, deny"

 

Though it's impossible to really know what one will do under certain circumstances, what do you think he would do should he be caught out now? Would he "deny, deny, deny" again, do you think? And if he did, what would you do? (I know this is pure speculation, but what do you think/believe would happen?)

 

I know him so much better today of course, but still I do not think I know the answer to this question. He has not taken the opportunity lately when she has straight out asked him if he has another woman when he has come home late at night from work. So these times he has again chosen to deny, but it is not like he was caught, she just asked.

 

I know part of him wants it out and over with. So I don't think I can see him denying again in the face of evidence.

 

To me it does not matter what he does. Not in the sense of how I relate to him. It doesn't change my feelings for him. That is his relationship, his problem, his issue to deal with.

[silktricks]

I know him so much better today of course, but still I do not think I know the answer to this question. He has not taken the opportunity lately when she has straight out asked him if he has another woman when he has come home late at night from work. So these times he has again chosen to deny, but it is not like he was caught, she just asked.

 

I know part of him wants it out and over with. So I don't think I can see him denying again in the face of evidence.

 

To me it does not matter what he does. Not in the sense of how I relate to him. It doesn't change my feelings for him. That is his relationship, his problem, his issue to deal with.

 

So given the opportunity, he didn't take it - I get that. What do you feel about his wife, that she accepted his word? Do you feel that she is stupid? Do you feel lessened in any way that he denied you?

 

If she suspects, though, at some point she'll probably get evidence. What if he denies again? How would you feel about that? Would it bother you if he rejected your relationship at that point or made light of it?

 

I know you love him, so I don't get being accepting of him saying you don't exist. Or is it because he then tells you what happens that you feel OK about it - that it turns into a shared secret together? I'm just trying to understand here - and not doing too well at it, I don't think .