Multiple D-Days for BS and OW. What really is the difference?

[jennie-jennie]

So given the opportunity, he didn't take it - I get that. What do you feel about his wife, that she accepted his word? Do you feel that she is stupid? Do you feel lessened in any way that he denied you?

 

If she suspects, though, at some point she'll probably get evidence. What if he denies again? How would you feel about that? Would it bother you if he rejected your relationship at that point or made light of it?

 

I know you love him, so I don't get being accepting of him saying you don't exist. Or is it because he then tells you what happens that you feel OK about it - that it turns into a shared secret together? I'm just trying to understand here - and not doing too well at it, I don't think .

 

I don't think his wife is stupid for believing him. Remember I have been the BS as well. I know what it is like to not understand what is going on right in front of you.

 

The picture I have gotten of her from him is that she is a really nice, good, hard-working woman, mother and wife. She has qualities I don't have, which I admire her for. I respect her and don't in any way look down at her. But she is in the way for me, if you get what I mean.

 

It is not that it would be a shared secret. It is that I want him to of his own accord be ready to be open with our relationship. I don't want to force him, and neither do I want anyone or anything else to either. I would of course be fine with if he was ready to take the opportunity to tell, but if he is not, then he isn't.

 

See, I can't see it as he would be rejecting our relationship, rather protecting it. As long as he is not done with his marriage, our relationship has more moving space as long as it is secret. We go away for a week once in a while, it is not like that could continue if she knew and he was still in the marriage.

 

I have no idea what will actually go down on a Dday. Having read so much on LS, I suspect that if he is not ready to be done with his marriage, he will do anything in his power to save it. And then get back to me when things are calm. So why would I want him to spill the beans before he feels it is time?

 

He has been hiding me for almost five years now. I have lived with that, even if that is not how I prefer things to be. But really, what difference would some more time make in the long run?

 

I hope I am able to convey my feelings. Feel free to ask again if something is unclear.

Edited June 8, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[Spark1111]

That is so true! And then if you ask about it later, like a day or a week later, you're accused of "bringing up the past." Did anyone else get the "past" excuse?

 

yes, I did. And once again it shows the character traits of conflict avoidance and cowardice.

 

It took time, and for some questions, almost too much time to tell the truth.

 

True remorse is when you can speak calmly of all your deceptions without running away from them, or your partner.

 

The other scenario is guilt at getting caught.

 

Remorse is so much more evolved than guilt: It is the ability to truly put yourself in your BSs, or SO's position and understand how you would have felt if I had done the same to you.

 

Without blameshifting, justifications, or the shame of guilt.

 

It's the difference between and adult and a child, IMHO.

[Spark1111]

I get the panic thing, but I think the person the MM is trying to save is simply himself from having to explain to two women why he isn't who he claims to be.

 

It isn't about who he loves or who he wants. Its about "easy" and saving himself any additional stress. Those of us who have actually been with and around the MM during most of the time of the "d-day stress" know that the first thing they say is "I don't want to talk about this right now". And its only because they are waiting for the dust to settle to see if they can get out of it without having to prove to anyone who they love the most.

 

Or, "Please don't tell anyone."

 

Like a bad boy, with his hands in two cookie jars. He knows it's wrong, but is more concerned initially about the guilt of getting caught, than the true consequences of his actions.

 

That takes time.

[Fieldsofgold]

I don't think his wife is stupid for believing him. Remember I have been the BS as well. I know what it is like to not understand what is going on right in front of you.

 

The picture I have gotten of her from him is that she is a really nice, good, hard-working woman, mother and wife. She has qualities I don't have, which I admire her for. I respect her and don't in any way look down at her. But she is in the way for me, if you get what I mean.

 

It is not that it would be a shared secret. It is that I want him to of his own accord be ready to be open with our relationship. I don't want to force him, and neither do I want anyone or anything else to either. I would of course be fine with if he was ready to take the opportunity to tell, but if he is not, then he isn't.

 

See, I can't see it as he would be rejecting our relationship, rather protecting it. As long as he is not done with his marriage, our relationship has more moving space as long as it is secret. We go away for a week once in a while, it is not like that could continue if she knew and he was still in the marriage.

 

I have no idea what will actually go down on a Dday. Having read so much on LS, I suspect that if he is not ready to be done with his marriage, he will do anything in his power to save it. And then get back to me when things are calm. So why would I want him to spill the beans before he feels it is time?

 

He has been hiding me for almost five years now. I have lived with that, even if that is not how I prefer things to be. But really, what difference would some more time make in the long run?

 

I hope I am able to convey my feelings. Feel free to ask again if something is unclear.

 

I, too, am trying to understand where you are coming from. Here's my question: are you willing to be his "secret" forever? If he's still with his W and seeing you secretly on the side when you are 80 years old, will that still be ok with you?

[silktricks]

I, too, am trying to understand where you are coming from. Here's my question: are you willing to be his "secret" forever? If he's still with his W and seeing you secretly on the side when you are 80 years old, will that still be ok with you?

 

I'm going to answer this.... I think she's willing to be his secret until she's not. She doesn't know when (or even if) that day will ever come - that either he changes things or she (jennie) gets tired of the way things are. But as long as she's happy with "now" she's OK with being a secret.

 

Is that right, Jennie?

[jennie-jennie]

I'm going to answer this.... I think she's willing to be his secret until she's not. She doesn't know when (or even if) that day will ever come - that either he changes things or she (jennie) gets tired of the way things are. But as long as she's happy with "now" she's OK with being a secret.

 

Is that right, Jennie?

 

Silk, I just love when other LS posters express my emotions better than I could have myself. I could not have said it better. :bunny:

[Mimolicious]

I'm going to answer this.... I think she's willing to be his secret until she's not. She doesn't know when (or even if) that day will ever come - that either he changes things or she (jennie) gets tired of the way things are. But as long as she's happy with "now" she's OK with being a secret.

 

Is that right, Jennie?

 

Or she can also be waiting for this ticking bomb to explode, he gets caught, kicked-out, his W divorces him, he stays with OW and they live happily ever after. Yet, she doesn't want to be the one that throws him under the bus, more like the Heroine of the story.

[jennie-jennie]

Or she can also be waiting for this ticking bomb to explode, he gets caught, kicked-out, his W divorces him, he stays with OW and they live happily ever after. Yet, she doesn't want to be the one that throws him under the bus, more like the Heroine of the story.

 

Thumbs down for this answer.

 

What makes you think that the OW would want to be chosen anymore by default than the BS would?

[Owl]

What makes you think that the OW would want to be chosen anymore by default than the BS would?

 

Long time experience on this board and others. This tends to be the default way that many OW do unfortunately end up with their MM.

 

Not all...but many.

[Mimolicious]

Thumbs down for this answer.

 

What makes you think that the OW would want to be chosen anymore by default than the BS would?

 

 

Are you kidding me??? Read these boards.

[Mimolicious]

Thumbs down for this answer.

 

What makes you think that the OW would want to be chosen anymore by default than the BS would?

 

Thumbs down because it doesn't jump on your bandwagon or because you really believe what you just wrote?

 

FYI- I wasn't specifically talking about you. I don't know much about your situation. I was playing out another VERY possible scenario.

 

My exH did end up with OW by default... I never took him back!

Edited June 8, 2010 by Mimolicious

[jennie-jennie]

So given the opportunity, he didn't take it - I get that. What do you feel about his wife, that she accepted his word? Do you feel that she is stupid? Do you feel lessened in any way that he denied you?

 

If she suspects, though, at some point she'll probably get evidence. What if he denies again? How would you feel about that? Would it bother you if he rejected your relationship at that point or made light of it?

 

I know you love him, so I don't get being accepting of him saying you don't exist. Or is it because he then tells you what happens that you feel OK about it - that it turns into a shared secret together? I'm just trying to understand here - and not doing too well at it, I don't think .

 

Thank you, silk, for a very rewarding interchange. It is so refreshing when a BS truly tries to understand an OW from her point of view without preconceived opinions.

[jennie-jennie]

Long time experience on this board and others. This tends to be the default way that many OW do unfortunately end up with their MM.

 

Not all...but many.

 

Granted I have only been on LS for a year, but I can't recall any OW who got her MM by default.

[Owl]

Interesting. Give me a list of all the OW that you've seen on LS over the last year who 'got their MM', and I'll figure out which ones seem to have done so "by default".

[silktricks]

First, you are welcome - in regards to our discussion. It's been very interesting for me. I understand some of your decisions, but far from all.

 

Granted I have only been on LS for a year, but I can't recall any OW who got her MM by default.

 

I actually don't recall any either. The ones I recall are GEL and OWoman, both of whom the fMM made the conscious decision to leave the wife and choose them. I believe that people tend to think of the OW getting their "guy" by default from either:

 

(1) BS who did refuse to take back their husband and he is now with the former OW...

 

or more often

 

(2) the fact that many OW get so incensed at those BS who choose to forgive their fWS.

 

For those of us who have experienced fairly heavy thrashing at the hands of those OW, it's easy to make the assumption that they would gladly have taken the man by default. Nonetheless, it is an assumption, and could be invalid .

[Owl]

To a degree, I'll agree with you Silk.

 

Just looking back through the threads real quick, I can count a bare handful of OW who "got their man". There are just two who come to mind immediately.

 

Look at the literal HUNDREDS of other OW posters that have come and gone in the same timeframes.

 

I'll grant that some of those that don't return do so because things worked out for them.

 

But you're right...the reality is that the vast, vast quantities of posters we see here on the LS OW/OM forum don't ever seem to "get their man".

 

The extremely small percentage that we have as long term posters that did so did not get theirs by default, I would agree.

[jennie-jennie]

First, you are welcome - in regards to our discussion. It's been very interesting for me. I understand some of your decisions, but far from all.

 

 

 

I actually don't recall any either. The ones I recall are GEL and OWoman, both of whom the fMM made the conscious decision to leave the wife and choose them. I believe that people tend to think of the OW getting their "guy" by default from either:

 

(1) BS who did refuse to take back their husband and he is now with the former OW...

 

or more often

 

(2) the fact that many OW get so incensed at those BS who choose to forgive their fWS.

 

For those of us who have experienced fairly heavy thrashing at the hands of those OW, it's easy to make the assumption that they would gladly have taken the man by default. Nonetheless, it is an assumption, and could be invalid .

 

Interesting, that could very well be the reason.

 

Well, given that I always took back my SOs even after multiple Ddays, I for one am certainly in no position to thrash a BS for doing so.

[NoIDidn't]

First, you are welcome - in regards to our discussion. It's been very interesting for me. I understand some of your decisions, but far from all.

 

 

 

I actually don't recall any either. The ones I recall are GEL and OWoman, both of whom the fMM made the conscious decision to leave the wife and choose them. I believe that people tend to think of the OW getting their "guy" by default from either:

 

(1) BS who did refuse to take back their husband and he is now with the former OW...

 

or more often

 

(2) the fact that many OW get so incensed at those BS who choose to forgive their fWS.

 

For those of us who have experienced fairly heavy thrashing at the hands of those OW, it's easy to make the assumption that they would gladly have taken the man by default. Nonetheless, it is an assumption, and could be invalid .

 

I also can't remember any OW that got the MM "by default", but I agree with #2. And add a #3 and #4.

 

(3) the OW over the years that have hung on and hung on in the hopes the the W would eventually get tired of the d-days and the gaslighting and leave so the OW could have him (by default).

 

(4) and the OW that have caused d-days in the hopes that the W would throw him out and the OW could have him (by default).

 

There have been a number of posters that fit these two descriptions. Maybe not in the past year, but they have certainly posted just those stories. They want to know why the W stays given what they know the MM is doing to them. It seems they figure the MM is definitely going to go to them should the W make them leave. And that is why others reading their stories get the impression that they will take the MM "by default" if necessary.

[Mimolicious]

I also can't remember any OW that got the MM "by default", but I agree with #2. And add a #3 and #4.

 

(3) the OW over the years that have hung on and hung on in the hopes the the W would eventually get tired of the d-days and the gaslighting and leave so the OW could have him (by default).

 

(4) and the OW that have caused d-days in the hopes that the W would throw him out and the OW could have him (by default).

 

There have been a number of posters that fit these two descriptions. Maybe not in the past year, but they have certainly posted just those stories. They want to know why the W stays given what they know the MM is doing to them. It seems they figure the MM is definitely going to go to them should the W make them leave. And that is why others reading their stories get the impression that they will take the MM "by default" if necessary.

 

Expect "thumbs-down" like I did for this one.

 

Ddays may come and go but in reality it ain't over till the fat lady sings... This happened to me. My exH got caught repeatedly and each and every time he came up with better bullshiz and I (like a naive loser that I was) kept on falling for it. You know when it ended?? The day I ENDED IT and NEVER took him back again. She has him all to herself now, why? Because I didn't take him back! (but of course this is only in mimolicious land)

 

A while after the storm passed, exH admitted this to me. He said "I feel like I f'ed up larger than life with this chick and that there is nothing that I can do to get you back. So F it! Might as well just keep on in a R with her". If that's not "default" then I don't know what that is?!??!

[Fieldsofgold]

Expect "thumbs-down" like I did for this one.

 

Ddays may come and go but in reality it ain't over till the fat lady sings... This happened to me. My exH got caught repeatedly and each and every time he came up with better bullshiz and I (like a naive loser that I was) kept on falling for it. You know when it ended?? The day I ENDED IT and NEVER took him back again. She has him all to herself now, why? Because I didn't take him back! (but of course this is only in mimolicious land)

 

A while after the storm passed, exH admitted this to me. He said "I feel like I f'ed up larger than life with this chick and that there is nothing that I can do to get you back. So F it! Might as well just keep on in a R with her". If that's not "default" then I don't know what that is?!??!

 

Whew! That, my friend, is D-fault.

[OWoman]

I think there really is a danger in being "chosen" by default, whether BS or OW. If the MM is not choosing freely, informedly and with conviction, he runs the risk of feeling he's settling, of finding himself back where he was when he was first tempted to "cheat", or of flip-flopping back and forth in his affections. How realistic is it to expect commitment from someone who is with you only because they have no other choice?

 

I've seen some BS who've posted that they're happy to settle for that because of other structural reasons - kids being the main one - but you can't help get the feeling that they're just biding their time, hoping that things will change one way or another, down the line. I suspect that they're in a space of low self-esteem at that point, feeling limited on their options, and not really acting from a position of strength in accepting that position. Which, I guess, would be similar to an OW who accepts a MM "by default".

[RedDevil66]

Isn't it sad that the BS and or the OW just don't have the strength to make their own choice and just leave and not sit around and wait for the Cheater to make the choice for them.

 

Ugh, who wants to be in a tug of war waiting to see if they will be chosen? yuck!

 

My ex left me for OW. He chose her, I walked, Two weeks later he came back crying that he made a huge mistake. I took him back because we were together 11 yrs. Then he did the tug of war between us, but I never knew. Then when I found out, I was gone.

He was all hers. I had enough self respect to not let some ahole decide my fate.

 

You would think that was the end of it. She "won" her man, but my ex came to me once every 3 months for 2 yrs begging for me back.

My neighbor even had to call the police one night when he sat on my stairs crying saying he was going to end his life.

She was chose by default. She got her man, and what a prize she won :-)

[OWoman]

Why is it OK for you to continue to take him back when you feel it is not all right for the BS to do the same thing? I'm not trying to be nasty here, I was just thinking about it and realized that I can't really see much if any difference.

 

Posted like that, there doesn't appear to be any material difference - but I imagine for an OW in that situation, she may feel that he is not choosing freely, but acting under duress, and so is not really rejecting her by staying: it's not that he's choosing the BW, it's that he's simply not ready to leave YET. And I imagine there may be some truth to that - that when a DDay is thrust upon a MM, he probably hasn't "decided" one way or the other, and yet now he must act. And it probably is a lot easier to stick with the status quo than to effect deep and often significant change at a moment's notice - particularly if you're not sure you want to do it.

 

But as has been pointed out - both sides love the MM, both sides believe the best of him, and thus project their own (hope-full) reading onto the situation in situations like that.

 

I've not had any experience of DDays on any side, though on the occasions my H did try to tell his xW that he had "someone else" and planned on leaving, she chose not to believe him. Even after he'd left, she was still wanting to get back together. It was only once I was physically living with him, as a very visible couple in her environment, that she finally came to accept it. People see what they want to see, and believe what they want to believe. Expecting rationality in situations like that is not very realistic.

[NoIDidn't]

Posted like that, there doesn't appear to be any material difference - but I imagine for an OW in that situation, she may feel that he is not choosing freely, but acting under duress, and so is not really rejecting her by staying: it's not that he's choosing the BW, it's that he's simply not ready to leave YET. And I imagine there may be some truth to that - that when a DDay is thrust upon a MM, he probably hasn't "decided" one way or the other, and yet now he must act. And it probably is a lot easier to stick with the status quo than to effect deep and often significant change at a moment's notice - particularly if you're not sure you want to do it.

 

But as has been pointed out - both sides love the MM, both sides believe the best of him, and thus project their own (hope-full) reading onto the situation in situations like that.

 

I've not had any experience of DDays on any side, though on the occasions my H did try to tell his xW that he had "someone else" and planned on leaving, she chose not to believe him. Even after he'd left, she was still wanting to get back together. It was only once I was physically living with him, as a very visible couple in her environment, that she finally came to accept it. People see what they want to see, and believe what they want to believe. Expecting rationality in situations like that is not very realistic.

 

I LOL'd when I read the bolded. This is a bit of a TJ, so I apologize to Silk.

 

A person's home life is disrupted when they have a d-day, but the OW only thinks of it as "duress"? Just seems like the OW thinks the D-day is about them and not about the actual lives other than theirs that have been affected.

[NoIDidn't]

I think there really is a danger in being "chosen" by default, whether BS or OW. If the MM is not choosing freely, informedly and with conviction, he runs the risk of feeling he's settling, of finding himself back where he was when he was first tempted to "cheat", or of flip-flopping back and forth in his affections. How realistic is it to expect commitment from someone who is with you only because they have no other choice?

 

I've seen some BS who've posted that they're happy to settle for that because of other structural reasons - kids being the main one - but you can't help get the feeling that they're just biding their time, hoping that things will change one way or another, down the line. I suspect that they're in a space of low self-esteem at that point, feeling limited on their options, and not really acting from a position of strength in accepting that position. Which, I guess, would be similar to an OW who accepts a MM "by default".

 

But the W already has the guy "by default", she's his legitimate partner.