Mental Conditions and Deterioration of Marriage

[trippi1432]

Trippi, once you get yourself better, assuming you ride the wave all the way to the shore (and believe me, sometimes it's a bumpy ride and you will want to jump off!), your issues will not haunt you at all. If you're still being haunted there is more work to do.

 

It's sounds as though you want to go the whole way and you should be very proud of that. It takes a lot of courage. When you reach the beach and feel that sense of calm, you'll realise it was all worth it.

 

When you are fully healed you can bring out the best in yourself - no partner required. Then you can have fun finding a guy who is as 'together' as you are and mental conditions just won't be an issue.

 

I wish you well with this Trippi - you will get there!

 

Thanks LittleTiger....ex and I have been long split up and hitting the D officially in September. The first time he told me he was going to leave me was a year ago this month, but you are correct....even if I had explored this side of myself alone...the marriage would not have been salvaged.

 

I need to ride the wave all the way to the shore. I realized a while back that an internal peace is the best thing to experience....but I needed to learn to give that to myself, that internal calm is something I have to find for me so I can find that with someone else who shares that condition without issues. Not an easy trait to find nor an easy trait to keep.

[trippi1432]

I'm not feeling picked on, just sort of joining in the rant.

 

The really tough thing about having a mate with a mental illness (and I include alcohol/drug abuse), as opposed to a physical illness, is the damage that gets inflicted on the well partner. Cancer isn't contagious, but depression can be! Being around a depressed person can be very hard, especially when they are lashing out in blind rage, or saying very hurtful things over and over, without realizing how much it hurts the other. At some point, my armor breaks down and can't sort out whether it is the depression talking or the real feelings of the other.

 

The 1st ex was real doozy, since after a long time in treatment, she was finally diagnosed as a sociopath.

 

So I've been tested by the best. But it wasn't their fault.

 

Believe me, I'm working on my own issues, a LOT.

 

Just Some Guy....I promise, I'm not picking on you, but alcohol and drug abuse are not mental illnesses. Mental illness is a little different. People choose to be hooked on alcohol or drugs and can be detoxed....a person with a mental illness or a physical illness does not "choose" it, it either happens, something triggers it to happen and most are born with it as a chemical imbalance in the brain or predisposed in their genetic makeup. Mental illness can be managed with proper treatment and cognitive behavior therapy, but it also takes the patience of the people around them to understand how to handle someone with a true mental illness. Same as with a physical illness.

 

Honestly, and no reflection on your character, but if you have your own issues to work out, you may need to really take this journey that I am on to work them out. Until you do, you will never learn selfless love for a person. Again, not knocking you, but I hear a lot of angst in there that may be more than just trauma from dealing with a bad relationship....move forward by learning more about you and your past before moving forward with anything else....just for you.

 

And yes, I agree with you about depressing people.....that is why you just listen and then move on. Not your job to make them feel better, they have to do that themselves.

[trippi1432]

Hey Gunny, Little Tiger, YGG, Tojaz...one more day on these stupid Depakote pills....Over the next 24 hours....can you tell me when I seem to get some mental clarity back into my postings? LOL!!

 

I recall when I was working through my coping skills on just PTSD, my mental clarity was pretty much there (I just kept spoiling my kids...bad habit). Mental clarity went out the window when they started the mood stabalizer so asking for a favor in case I need to refuse the new mood stabalizer.

 

Let me know when I "freak" out. :):bunny::lmao:

[just_some_guy]

Just Some Guy....I promise, I'm not picking on you, but alcohol and drug abuse are not mental illnesses. Mental illness is a little different. People choose to be hooked on alcohol or drugs and can be detoxed....a person with a mental illness or a physical illness does not "choose" it, it either happens, something triggers it to happen and most are born with it as a chemical imbalance in the brain or predisposed in their genetic makeup. Mental illness can be managed with proper treatment and cognitive behavior therapy, but it also takes the patience of the people around them to understand how to handle someone with a true mental illness. Same as with a physical illness.

 

Drug and alcohol abuse are self-inflicted, but I and many others regard them as mental illness. It's not the same kind of mental illness as organic schizophrenia, that comes about through no fault of the afflicted.

 

But what are we to say about the schizoid or the bi-polar who refuse to take medications? Is that not also self-inflicted illness, when the means to maintain wellness is refused?

 

 

Honestly, and no reflection on your character, but if you have your own issues to work out, you may need to really take this journey that I am on to work them out. Until you do, you will never learn selfless love for a person. Again, not knocking you, but I hear a lot of angst in there that may be more than just trauma from dealing with a bad relationship....move forward by learning more about you and your past before moving forward with anything else....just for you.

 

And yes, I agree with you about depressing people.....that is why you just listen and then move on. Not your job to make them feel better, they have to do that themselves.

 

Well, like I said, I'm certainly on my own journey of healing. Fortunately, I'm not afflicted with drug or alcohol addiction, nor depression.

 

Unfortunately, I'm around someone who seems to have depressive episodes all of the sudden, and at very convenient times.

 

Real or not, I have no idea.

 

I am not personally emotionally equipped to deal with "unintentional" abuse meted out by someone who is emotionally unstable or suffering a depressive episode.

 

Maybe there are better, stronger, more bulletproof people than me who are better suited to the job. I can't do it. I can't handle it, especially when the lines are not clear. When am I supposed to know when someone is lucid or depressed? All I hear is what a "f****ing bastard" I am and the litany of how everything wrong with them is my fault. Then comes the "I'm sorry, I never meant to hurt you. I love you, please don't leave me."

 

Maybe if I was raised by sane people as a child, maybe if a flaming homo teenage boy didn't try to stick his finger up my rear end when I was six, maybe if I didn't live through the diabolical manipulations of my first w, maybe I'd handle it better.

 

But I can't. It leaves me hurt and confused.

[trippi1432]

Drug and alcohol abuse are self-inflicted, but I and many others regard them as mental illness. It's not the same kind of mental illness as organic schizophrenia, that comes about through no fault of the afflicted.

 

But what are we to say about the schizoid or the bi-polar who refuse to take medications? Is that not also self-inflicted illness, when the means to maintain wellness is refused?

 

I agree here, there are those who will not take the meds or cannot afford them. In my case, I didn't have these depressive issues as much until I started taking the stabalizers. Everyone who knows me states that bipolar is something that they do not agree with, even the doctor is now saying that this may be a mild form. It's not an exact science, but it would save a lot of heartache and mental breakdowns with friends and family if they would stop messing with my mind. (Sorry for the personal rant). I just wish that they would stop lumping everything as bi-polar so the medical companies can move their products.

 

 

Well, like I said, I'm certainly on my own journey of healing. Fortunately, I'm not afflicted with drug or alcohol addiction, nor depression.

 

Unfortunately, I'm around someone who seems to have depressive episodes all of the sudden, and at very convenient times.

 

Real or not, I have no idea.

 

I am not personally emotionally equipped to deal with "unintentional" abuse meted out by someone who is emotionally unstable or suffering a depressive episode.

 

Maybe there are better, stronger, more bulletproof people than me who are better suited to the job. I can't do it. I can't handle it, especially when the lines are not clear. When am I supposed to know when someone is lucid or depressed? All I hear is what a "f****ing bastard" I am and the litany of how everything wrong with them is my fault. Then comes the "I'm sorry, I never meant to hurt you. I love you, please don't leave me."

 

Maybe if I was raised by sane people as a child, maybe if a flaming homo teenage boy didn't try to stick his finger up my rear end when I was six, maybe if I didn't live through the diabolical manipulations of my first w, maybe I'd handle it better.

 

But I can't. It leaves me hurt and confused.

 

I do agree here as well, being around someone who is CONSTANTLY depressed will have an effect on you. Same thing goes with being around someone who is constantly miserable and angry (these are two traits that I have to work out of my life to get back to the person I used to be - traits that my ex left me with...bless his heart. . Sorry, Southern Humor.

 

But yes...you cannot fix them....you can only work on you.....but I do implore you to find some solace for your own issues...it is the only way you are ever going to understand your anger to live a normal life. Looking back at the past is not placing blame on what happened to us, but rather realizing that we had no control over it. It took several sessions for me to finally understand that and I still have issues today in understanding why my father's ringing words of empathy drove me to the wrong side of compassion instead of a middle ground...the ability to say NO.

[trippi1432]

So, I've been assigned me homework....start living for me....it's okay to say NO and do not give away my dignity, time, energy, advice, money, rides or do someone's work for them.

 

So far:

 

1. Seriously sat down with DS and had a talk with him about how we needed to work on each of us getting along. (Advice, but needed)

 

2. Drove a neighborhood kid to work and took the gas money he offered this time (that might seem a little selfish, but this is a learning curve for me to work on doing my own work at my job and not for everyone else, so step in right direction - quit being a doormat.)

 

3. Setting limits/boundaries on my medical treatment....they need to quit wasting my money on what is not working. (giving away money)

 

4. Ex called using that same anxious tone of voice that always grated on my nerves (it's the voice he uses with his sister and nephews because he can't stand them)....wanting to know where to enroll son for school. Huge boundary....tall....enormous...I DON'T CARE ANYMORE, WORK IT OUT BETWEEN THE TWO OF YOU. It's not my problem anymore.

 

He continued with that tone of voice and stated that I could take our son to school every once in a while if I liked - 1 hour drive (my time) and I affirmed that his tone was disrespectful (my dignity), I was also in the middle of painting (my time and energy) and after he started yelling into the phone that his tone was NOT being disrespectful since he is nervous about just "quitting" his job.....I hung up the phone. I didn't tell him to quit his job...he did that on his own. Sheesh

 

 

Hoping the class is pass/fail....lol.

[trippi1432]

Trippi--this is what Gunny and I were saying about you beating yourself up. Read your own post here again.

You are saying it is your fault. Hello! When you're with an alcoholic, life is NEVER sane. It was not your fault Trippi, and you are feeling badly about yourself all the time because you think, well, he fixed it with the new gal...as if he couldn't have fixed it with you.

I am still going to email you, because I want to tell you over and over again that it is NOT your fault.

Were you less than perfect in some ways? Well of course, you are human, and so is he.

Are you bipolar or are you torn up by that he is sober and with a new woman? I'm not your shrink, but, I think blaming yourself has put you in a depression.

You need a big hug! Here's one from me! HUG!!!!!!!!!

Now I'll read the rest of the responses lol

 

Thanks YGG - but I do get it....we ALL have to look at ourselves as well as the other half. Here's is where I held my ex back.....I didn't move out to Wisconsin and buy season ticket seats.....OK! Raise of hands....I could MAYBE do Wisconsin (but it's really dam* cold), but how often do those seats (season tickets) come available? Someone has to die to get them and they can be willed to the family....so, yes....fantasy. Is she going to do that for him...no....was I? Heck no.

 

But he stopped drinking because he realized what it cost him and he cared enough for her to do what was right. There was nothing that we could salvage in our relationship, even with MC because we had too many problems going against us...family, work, school, enablers. Being the gambler that he is, I'm sure he rolled the dice and she won. I agree, coming down off the mood stabalizers, that the issue is not bi-polar but more an anxiety problem.

 

So, was there more that I could have done? I don't know, that's looking back at the history of a time that is no longer there. Is there more that I can do now....yes...learn about me, get myself well, get back to work and kick some a**. This is the life I was dealt, but from now on....I'm going to have more fun doing it than I did when I was married to misery.

 

One day at a time.

[just_some_guy]

but I do implore you to find some solace for your own issues...it is the only way you are ever going to understand your anger to live a normal life.

 

Trippi, that's just it - I'm not angry. I've reached the point where I'm not angry. What I'm saying is that it just hurts me too much to be around and involved with it. What I have trouble with is knowing when to walk away. The storm comes, the teeth bite into me, I get hurt, because I didn't get away fast enough.

 

Maybe, if I was someone else, I would have the strength to deal with it. But I don't.

[trippi1432]

Trippi, that's just it - I'm not angry. I've reached the point where I'm not angry. What I'm saying is that it just hurts me too much to be around and involved with it. What I have trouble with is knowing when to walk away. The storm comes, the teeth bite into me, I get hurt, because I didn't get away fast enough.

 

Maybe, if I was someone else, I would have the strength to deal with it. But I don't.

 

Well, JSG....how much reading have you done on the site....I will have to go back and look at your threads, but a lot of what I have been writing about here is how the end of my marriage affected myself and my ex (as me being his enabler and as him not understanding the underlying issues of my past). Essentially, a lack of empathy on one side of the home and too much on the other.

 

Can two unstable people be happy together...God, I hope so since there seem to be more and more of those around today. But what it sounds like you have is the inability to walk away from the "fight", the "anger" and the "hurt". This is what I am trying to explain to you...I DID THIS IN MY MARRIAGE TOO!! When he snarled, I snarled...when his gnashing teeth came out to grab me by the veins...I fought back with everything in my power (mentally). Why? I could have been the submissive wife....given into his every demand...and guess what, I typically did...but I didn't make it easy for him and he didn't make it easy for me.

 

Why....why couldn't I? I know why....deep in my heart I do....I never trusted him. I never trusted him to love me like he claimed he would with every hurtful word that came out of his mouth. I never trusted that he would stop drinking or this would be the last beer. I never trusted that he would take care of his family because the strength of character that I once thought I saw in him disappeared when he claimed that I was his "property" after he got me pregnant. I never trusted him when he dropped me off at the hospital and told me to call him later to come get me due to a bronchial infection at 7 mths pregnant. I never trusted that he would provide and care for us in the way a man should care for his family. I never trusted him when I caught him kissing another woman the first year we were together.

 

Eventually, I stopped trusting anything about him......to the point that if he wanted to marry me he had to sign a prenupt. To save face, he did and we went through with the wedding even though drama reared its ugly head the night before that he had gotten it on with one of my bridesmaid's a couple of years earlier. Did I say I never trusted him....3 years in, he looked around at all we had acquired and said "Eh, I don't care that I signed the prenupt, you can have it all.....the only thing I saw in you is that you were a worker."

 

JSG - There's the story: Did I ever say that I only trust the one person I know I can....ME. The journey is to find out if I can ever trust anyone besides me so I can some happiness in this life....that took looking back at what really kicked off the trust issue at the earliest age. That was the hardest and darkest hole to climb out of....but you do eventually get there.

[You Go Girl]

Hey Gunny, Little Tiger, YGG, Tojaz...one more day on these stupid Depakote pills....Over the next 24 hours....can you tell me when I seem to get some mental clarity back into my postings? LOL!!

 

I recall when I was working through my coping skills on just PTSD, my mental clarity was pretty much there (I just kept spoiling my kids...bad habit). Mental clarity went out the window when they started the mood stabalizer so asking for a favor in case I need to refuse the new mood stabalizer.

 

Let me know when I "freak" out. :):bunny::lmao:

 

LOL

Not sure I am qualified, freaking out myself the last few days. But in my flawed twisted mental state, I'll do the best I can and you call me out when I need it!

[trippi1432]

LOL

Not sure I am qualified, freaking out myself the last few days. But in my flawed twisted mental state, I'll do the best I can and you call me out when I need it!

 

LOL!! Deal! Last week I said something to my shrink about twisting the way I looked at something....she told me that was truly bi-polar. I asked her if she was sure that was truly bi-polar or just twisted thinking. God forbid if you shake your foot or talk with your hands.....:eek::eek::eek::eek:

[You Go Girl]

LOL!! Deal! Last week I said something to my shrink about twisting the way I looked at something....she told me that was truly bi-polar. I asked her if she was sure that was truly bi-polar or just twisted thinking. God forbid if you shake your foot or talk with your hands.....:eek::eek::eek::eek:

 

Eh, shrinks have all kinds of 'labels' for people's state of mind. But everything's a little in the gray area too.

Each of us knows most of our flaws, they're right in front of our faces. Where are we each dysfunctional? We don't need a shrink to tell us. We might explore the WHYS of that dysfunction better with a shrink than without one. But how many people go into a psychologists office and come out thinking Wow! I didn't know who I was! Who is that strange person--why it's me!

I think we know for the most part who we are. A few surprises to that road of discovery is a good thing, here and there, the lightbulb moments.

I love your twisted question about whether something you did was bipolar or just plain twisted, lol

After all the stress I've had, I GIVE UP!

I'm not giving up on me, the world, or anyone I have loved. I am giving up on thinking I have to figure it all out and make it all right. I don't have the power to make it ALL RIGHT--right as in fix it. So why even try?!

 

What I do have the power to do is live and let live.

I'm flawed, you're flawed, he and she are both flawed, we're all flawed. I don't have to fix you, you don't have to fix me, but I do have to find a way to get along with whomever, or move along.

Far less stress.

that's right, live and let live. His issues are his, mine are mine, some I'll figure out, some I never will. It doesn't matter. What matters is finding people that I have something to give to, and they have something to give to me, and we appreciate what each has to give.

No more reasons to fight, have a battle of wills, or try to change somebody else. Life is fluid.

Why was I ever carrying around the weight of trying to force anything? I should write that down, sometime in my future, I'm going to need my own advice again.

[Gunny376]

LOL!! Deal! Last week I said something to my shrink about twisting the way I looked at something....she told me that was truly bi-polar. I asked her if she was sure that was truly bi-polar or just twisted thinking. God forbid if you shake your foot or talk with your hands.....:eek::eek::eek::eek:

 

Basically what I'm getting out of seeing a psycholgist and trhe meds is that I'm a lot less PO, about the world and the people in it. A lot less Rambo PO in transistioning back into civilian la~la land.

 

Less Bruce Springsteen "Born In the USA"

 

People ~ civilians at least ~ truely do not know the scarficies that those that join and serve in the military make? Nothing but blood, sweat and tears!

[trippi1432]

I love your twisted question about whether something you did was bipolar or just plain twisted, lol

 

LOL! Thanks, I think today I will ask her if there is any secret formula for reversing the polarity of my drama magnet......:rolleyes:

 

What I do have the power to do is live and let live.

I'm flawed, you're flawed, he and she are both flawed, we're all flawed. I don't have to fix you, you don't have to fix me, but I do have to find a way to get along with whomever, or move along.

 

that's right, live and let live. His issues are his, mine are mine, some I'll figure out, some I never will. It doesn't matter. What matters is finding people that I have something to give to, and they have something to give to me, and we appreciate what each has to give.

No more reasons to fight, have a battle of wills, or try to change somebody else. Life is fluid.

Why was I ever carrying around the weight of trying to force anything? I should write that down, sometime in my future, I'm going to need my own advice again.

 

I agree that people just need to accept each other for who they are, the irony to that is that none of us do. We spend so much time trying to "adjust" to someone else's behavior, their personality, their issues that we don't find time for our own. Next thing you know, they go on their way and you are the one stuck working it out with a shrink on where it went wrong and how to "fix" you.

 

I think that there will always be a battle of wills in any relationship....no matter how perfect it is....because you are dealing with two personalities, but if given the right maturity, it doesn't have to come down to full blown fights and battles all the time. If only things in life could be fluid....but then you are expecting perfection, just doesn't happen.

 

I recall when my ex and I were getting married, I had a one week window where work had given our 1500 man/woman team a week off for vacation. We were working on a huge project and they put us on vacation hold. My ex is a very nervous, anxious person and when one thing goes wrong, the whole world just "ends". I warned him up front that if something went wrong, we just needed to flow with it, laugh it off and keep moving. Got to the church, it was already decorated with the next couples decorations...LMAO!!

 

When he and my father called me, I said...No Big Deal......take their guest book and roll up their mat put it all away and leave the rest. I figure it was up to the next couple to work out why the facility told them they could go ahead and decorate the night before knowing that there was a morning wedding going on.....wasn't our problem. In 15 years, that was the ONLY time that my ex and I did something without any issues or fights....because we worked together. We spent the rest of our time working against each other. Isn't that ironic? (and a total waste of time, energy and money based on today)....sigh. :o

[trippi1432]

Basically what I'm getting out of seeing a psycholgist and trhe meds is that I'm a lot less PO, about the world and the people in it. A lot less Rambo PO in transistioning back into civilian la~la land.

 

Less Bruce Springsteen "Born In the USA"

 

People ~ civilians at least ~ truely do not know the scarficies that those that join and serve in the military make? Nothing but blood, sweat and tears!

 

Yeah Gunny, I just wish they would get mine right. I'm not having to make the transition that you are having to make, I know that has got to be much harder, but I just have so much angst built up with the company I work for right now....that side makes me angry. And I guess being alone (with the kids gone now) that side gives me the crying jags....mood swings...yes. Bi-polar....still on the fence about that diagnosis.

 

I still say it's PTSD and they should be treating it as such....as I have come off the Depakote (down to one pill today) I have less and less crying jags. So, we shall see I guess....onward and upward.

[You Go Girl]

I agree that people just need to accept each other for who they are, the irony to that is that none of us do. We spend so much time trying to "adjust" to someone else's behavior, their personality, their issues that we don't find time for our own. Next thing you know, they go on their way and you are the one stuck working it out with a shrink on where it went wrong and how to "fix" you.

 

I think that there will always be a battle of wills in any relationship....no matter how perfect it is....because you are dealing with two personalities, but if given the right maturity, it doesn't have to come down to full blown fights and battles all the time. If only things in life could be fluid....but then you are expecting perfection, just doesn't happen.

In 15 years, that was the ONLY time that my ex and I did something without any issues or fights....because we worked together. We spent the rest of our time working against each other. Isn't that ironic? (and a total waste of time, energy and money based on today)....sigh. :o

 

Interesting. I can recall several situations in the beginning of my relationship with H that went horribly wrong yet we laughed about them. One memory I'll cherish forever. He had bought me a beautiful dress to wear out that evening, and it was a tiny bit too long, even with the heels on. We were going down an escalator, and the escalator started to eat the bottom of the dress, I found out as I tried to get off the escalator. I yelled his name, not wanting to get eaten by the escalator along with the dress. He came, hero and savior, and ripped the dress out of the escalator. We then proceeded to laugh, and went on with the evening. The end of the evening we were slow dancing at a very swanky upscale romantic club, right in front of everyone, with my dress torn. That's what was sweet. I didn't feel the need to run back and change. We didn't feel the need to explain to anyone why my dress was a mess. Nobody asked, but people were watching us. At first maybe to look at my dress. But honestly, I think they were more taken in by how obviously in love we were.

What happened to that couple? Which transgression was the one that started making the entire marriage self-destruct?

Actually, I know exactly where it all started to go wrong. And I told him as soon as it happened, and he disregarded my feelings.

[trippi1432]

What happened to that couple? Which transgression was the one that started making the entire marriage self-destruct?

 

Actually, I know exactly where it all started to go wrong. And I told him as soon as it happened, and he disregarded my feelings.

 

YGG - Your story that you gave, almost sheer perfection. Coming from someone who has never seen that, I am envious to a point and can't figure out why you would walk away from it in a way.

 

Hate to dredge it up, I know yours has the ego problems, drinks....there is some sexual incompatibility, but is there absolutely nothing that can be worked on since there does not appear to be an OM or OW?

 

See, mine...done..fine'. Mine was back in with an OW almost immediately when he left. I thought it was a 2 week romance and that he was just in lust so I told him I would forgive all if he would just move in with his mom, stop drinking and let us work on our family. He told me he couldn't do that to HER!! This woman, not the woman he claimed he loved for 15 years and the mother to his son...this new woman that he stated he barely knew.

 

So, hate to say it, but when someone comes along and sees their previous life with their ex as so perfect and how much they did love them, but then wants to walk....I just have to ask....at what point did you both decide to quit working on it and why?

[You Go Girl]

YGG - Your story that you gave, almost sheer perfection. Coming from someone who has never seen that, I am envious to a point and can't figure out why you would walk away from it in a way.

 

Hate to dredge it up, I know yours has the ego problems, drinks....there is some sexual incompatibility, but is there absolutely nothing that can be worked on since there does not appear to be an OM or OW?

 

See, mine...done..fine'. Mine was back in with an OW almost immediately when he left. I thought it was a 2 week romance and that he was just in lust so I told him I would forgive all if he would just move in with his mom, stop drinking and let us work on our family. He told me he couldn't do that to HER!! This woman, not the woman he claimed he loved for 15 years and the mother to his son...this new woman that he stated he barely knew.

 

So, hate to say it, but when someone comes along and sees their previous life with their ex as so perfect and how much they did love them, but then wants to walk....I just have to ask....at what point did you both decide to quit working on it and why?

 

He had a history of open marriages, swinging, and whatever. I come from a traditional view. He asked me if we should consider swinging. My heart could not comprehend the question. I became furious and held that anger for a long time.

I later found out about his porn addiction. It was a long distance romance, so these things were not evident, along with that he didn't just drink when we were together on weekends (having to drive two states to see each other), but that he drank everyday.

He threw the porn in my face. Actually made sure that I saw he was seeking more of it than ever, and asking for intimacy with me much less. He apparently loved having a secret sex life and a love affair with booze too. He could detach from everything around him with those two things in the picture. That life was private, none of my business, and that is exactly the words he used to tell me so.

Are you starting to see the tough guy emerge yet? Has Cinderella fallen on her ass yet?

I then began to see the ego in action. Entertaining many people, where he sat as patriarch, sometimes downright belittling more gentle souls, or at the very least patronizing with his breadth of knowledge. Then passing out in the middle of it all.

People came to our house for the first couple years. Free food and entertainment. Then less came. Then less than that. No invitations from these people that he invited to our house were reciprocated. I wonder why? Then our best friend couples cut it off with us. Both couples wanted to get away from excessive alcohol consumption. One couple got a divorce. The other that were best friends never invited us anywhere again.

Has the oh great knowledgable and powerful one fallen from his pedestal yet? Is he simply another human, no greater, no lesser?

He's never had a serious discussion with me ever without being intoxicated, and having a plan of manipulation and intimidation in the works.

But the tough guy has cried when we have reconciled. Even his tears have made me uneasy.

Trippi, you know that alcoholism is about a disease of the ego. That ego doesn't go away when they take their last drink. Your ex definitely is still working through his issues, may never conquer them or may, and may too fall off the wagon again.

The message from my stbx has been clear: I am great and powerful and I will continue on status quo, and you will be ever grateful to be in the same room as me.

Meanwhile, he sometimes hates himself. That's the battle of the ego.

[trippi1432]

My therapist loved this saying today!! :p:p

 

Great progress made last week on "homework", new homework for this week is to notice "red flags" in any of my relationships....those with children, ex, friends, family....etc.

 

In addition, we may have uncovered my truly black and white way of thinking....a true symptom of bi-polar (although I continue to not be accepting the "label". ).

 

My ex and I were never on the same page....he did his thing, I did mine, there was never really an "Us"....even when we attempted to do any "Us" time, it would just end badly. We also never stuck to anything...either of us; for example, we would try to pick a family night and take turns as to who would get to pick what we would do each week....those rarely ever worked out....either due to my job and/or school or due to him having to run off and "save" one of his relatives. Something would always come up, get in the way of, or become more important than those family nights or the "Us" time.

 

Essentially, there were no boundaries in our marriage or our parenting. We maintained our marriage and parenting with inconsistent limits on boundaries...a combination of both strict and lax limits....becomes extremely confusing to everyone....eggshells. This is typical of the alcoholic family. An adult child of an alcoholic may wind up with extreme boundary confusion. This would also explain my ex as he was the adult child of an alcoholic and lived a pretty much, with no boundaries. My ex has his expectation, nervousness and anxiety to his voice all the time, this is consistent with someone who keeps their guard up constantly...waiting for someone to let them down. Setting limits can also become an issue....like if I told my ex NO, he would rage....same with our son; however, I am seeing some improvement there with the DS.

 

In exploring my own background and trying to understand where my boundary learning went south of the border, I would have to say around 10 to 12 years old....when I had a little better understanding of abuse (not by my parents of course). It was trauma.....this can affect the growth of boundary development in children. Boundary development is essential to establishing healthy relationships down the road. So, trauma, such as physical abuse, emotional abuse or sexual abuse, severe loss....etc....these can all affect how an adult establishes their boundaries. Trauma can make the child develop the foundations that the world is not safe and they have no control over their lives.....

 

So, where do the red flags come into play with all of this learning? Understanding the character traits that would pull someone with boundary issues in. For example, by my having an enabling nature due to putting up the ex's drinking for so long, reversing the polarity is simply looking for the red flags for people who have those issues and move them to the back of the bus or put them off the bus entirely....don't put them in the driver's seat. LOL!

 

There are all sorts of red flags, some big...some not so big and can be overlooked....my problem with this is that we are not all perfect.....true. Red flag....he seems like someone who needs saving.....no, you can help...but not your job to change them, you have just overstepped your boundary as well as overstepped their boundary. Let them carry their weight as the only person who can truly fix themselves is that person.

 

Back to why my ex quit drinking for her.....he always had it in him to quit, he knew that, but he also knew that I would put up with it. New boundary and red flag for me, get in a cab...take the car....whatever I need to do to remove myself from the situation if I am ever with a person like that again...RUN!!!!

 

Still a lot to learn as I flip my twisted thinking....:confused: Boundaries....establishing healthy ones and understanding how they got so messed up. I think trying to establish them at work is going to even much harder than they ever were at home honestly.....

 

So much to think about...my brain hurts. LOL!

[trippi1432]

He had a history of open marriages, swinging, and whatever. I come from a traditional view. He asked me if we should consider swinging. My heart could not comprehend the question. I became furious and held that anger for a long time.

I later found out about his porn addiction. It was a long distance romance, so these things were not evident, along with that he didn't just drink when we were together on weekends (having to drive two states to see each other), but that he drank everyday.

He threw the porn in my face. Actually made sure that I saw he was seeking more of it than ever, and asking for intimacy with me much less. He apparently loved having a secret sex life and a love affair with booze too. He could detach from everything around him with those two things in the picture. That life was private, none of my business, and that is exactly the words he used to tell me so.

Are you starting to see the tough guy emerge yet? Has Cinderella fallen on her ass yet?

I then began to see the ego in action. Entertaining many people, where he sat as patriarch, sometimes downright belittling more gentle souls, or at the very least patronizing with his breadth of knowledge. Then passing out in the middle of it all.

People came to our house for the first couple years. Free food and entertainment. Then less came. Then less than that. No invitations from these people that he invited to our house were reciprocated. I wonder why? Then our best friend couples cut it off with us. Both couples wanted to get away from excessive alcohol consumption. One couple got a divorce. The other that were best friends never invited us anywhere again.

Has the oh great knowledgable and powerful one fallen from his pedestal yet? Is he simply another human, no greater, no lesser?

He's never had a serious discussion with me ever without being intoxicated, and having a plan of manipulation and intimidation in the works.

But the tough guy has cried when we have reconciled. Even his tears have made me uneasy.

Trippi, you know that alcoholism is about a disease of the ego. That ego doesn't go away when they take their last drink. Your ex definitely is still working through his issues, may never conquer them or may, and may too fall off the wagon again.

The message from my stbx has been clear: I am great and powerful and I will continue on status quo, and you will be ever grateful to be in the same room as me.

Meanwhile, he sometimes hates himself. That's the battle of the ego.

 

I actually had not heard of alcoholism being a disease of the ego, have heard about it being a disease of choice though. It very well may not be his last drink, I know that depends mostly on him and his thinking/choice. I really don't consider my ex to be an egomaniac....OCD..yes....but not ego-driven.

 

Based on what you have laid out in your marriage...wow!! Much more dramatic than a drunken birthday party for a 2 year old...3 year old....etc, etc. My ex would even drink to excess by himself for his son's b-day....like a ritual or something....:confused:

[You Go Girl]

There's always a reason to celebrate and have a drink! Waking up is a reason!

lol

 

I'm going to read your boundary post very carefully. I too have problems setting boundaries, and moreso--recognizing when they are being crossed!

Interesting thing to think about--I had an abusive father, hence a chaotic and combative childhood homelife. There weren't boundaries then obviously, so I probably have never really learned how to set them and stick to them. The message to abused kids is this: you have no right to set your boundaries. So I either stand there dumbfounded like a deer in headlights or I lash out in anger when they're crossed.

Thus the next step is how to firmly let someone know when they are crossing my boundaries without being abrasive or combative. How to relay that message appropriately to them.

 

Tomorrow though, I'm overloaded tonight. Time for some zoning tv. Maybe I'll watch the weather channel just to make sure that I check out mentally as much as possible, watch that local on the 8's over and over and over again... Certainly not the news!

[Gunny376]

Yeah Gunny, I just wish they would get mine right. I'm not having to make the transition that you are having to make, I know that has got to be much harder, but I just have so much angst built up with the company I work for right now....that side makes me angry. And I guess being alone (with the kids gone now) that side gives me the crying jags....mood swings...yes. Bi-polar....still on the fence about that diagnosis.

 

I still say it's PTSD and they should be treating it as such....as I have come off the Depakote (down to one pill today) I have less and less crying jags. So, we shall see I guess....onward and upward.

 

Has your psychiatrist had you taken any kind of pyschological evaluation test? Mind did (to the tune of $600 ~ my insurance covered most of it, but I had to pay about 1/5th of it.

 

Mind you? You may want to shop around for the right one. Psychiatrist, psychologist, and health care providers have some of the highest divorce rates among any given profession. And as they are people ~ they are subject and varying opinions of thought about certain subjects.

 

From my own personal pyschological evaluation report related to my PTSD, depression, and anxiety:

 

"Related to but beyond his characteristic level of emotional responsivity, Gunny376 has been confronted with an event or events which he was exposed to a severe threat to his life a traumatic experience that precipitate intense fear or horror on his part. Currently the residuals of this events or events appear to be persistently re-experienced with recurrent and distressing recollections as cues that resemble of symbolize and aspect of the traumatic event(s). Where possible he seeks to avoid such cues and recollections. Where they cannot be anticipated and actively avoided as in dreams or nightmares, be may become terrified, exhibiting a number of of symptoms of intense anxiety. Other signs of distress might include difficulty falling asleep, outburst of anger, panic attacks. hypervigilance. exaggerated startled response, or a subjective sense of numbing and detachment"

 

Mind you I'm not only seeing a psychologist but alternating treatment between him and my PCP (Primary Care Provider) who are in consultation with one another.

 

My PCP ordered to have some blood work done, and look at the physical side of things, while my psychologist is looking at my mental and emotional state of mind.

 

Psychologist cannot prescribe drugs and have to do so in conjunction and in consultation with a MD.

 

Both are monitoring my prescription, dosage, progress. I told my psychologist that I had attempted to go "cold turkey" and he told me not to do that! As I would more than likely go into detox, (which I did when I attempted ~ restless sleep, hot and cold flashes, cold sweats, severe thrust, vomiting severe constipation.

 

He told me to instead to steadily decrease my consumption on a daily basis over the course of the next couple of months, and to set a date somewhere in the thirty to ninety day range for quiting completely.

 

That is so say to drink lots and lots of water, and purge the alcohol from my system.

 

Even the AD's and anxiety drugs that I'm on in the Patients Information from said that if I have been drinking not to attempt to quit doing so abruptly.

 

I cannot exactly pin-point which traumatic event it was over the course of my twenty years in the years in the Corps? The Invasion of Panama, Beruit, Gernada, The First Gulf War, Bangladesh?

 

But if I would have to guess? I would say it was in 94' on a humanitarian relief mission to Rwanda. I won't go into it, too graphic ~ you can Google if your curious enough?

 

That's the one that I have nightmares about. And the one that got me started to drinking just to get to sleep ~ or I would go days upon days without sleep.

 

I never had problems with killing what needed killing?

 

Now mind you trippi that you don't have to have gone through what I've been through and have gone through to suffer from PTSD ~ you alone in your job in the corporate world ~ is suffice to suffer from PTSD.

 

Its Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome. Its putting the situation of the moment (and related stress such associated with it) to the side to deal with the situation at hand at that moment.

 

In my case? I had twenty years worth coming down on me all at once ~ once I had retired from the Corps.

 

While I was in the Corps? No problem!

 

Kuwait? The Highway of Death? "Alright Marines lets get to cleaning this mess up!" "You over here! You over there! Let the LT know! Get the Company Commander on the horn! Patch me through to Battalion! Yo! We've got ourselves a live one here, make sure he's disarmed and get a Corpsman up here to treat him.

 

I cannot even to freaking imagine the hellish nightmare that Iraq and Afghanistan and our troops are going though?

 

But once I got turned out to greener pastures? I had a world of hurt came down on me! Twenty years worth.

 

I displaced all of that ~ postponed it! I'll deal with it latter.

 

Don't think for a moment that's not the case with you. Many so called mental health providers / health care providers are only interested in taking in the money.

 

"Oh your bi-polar!"

 

Next!

 

Were it me? I'd get a second or third opnion!

 

You know when we were kids?

 

It was judges, lawyers, policemnen and doctors that we looked up to the most?

 

Nowdays? They're the very ones we've got to watch out for the most!

[Gunny376]

I agree, coming down off the mood stabilizers, that the issue is not bi-polar but more an anxiety problem.

 

 

And that stems from both your personal and professional life ~ in short your the typical ambitious Western women ~ trying to do too damn much, be the answer to to many people's questions, the solution to ~ too many peoples problems ~ while seeking to be self independent ~ and not dependent upon anyone else ~

 

Jeez! No wonder your in the state of mind that your in?

 

Let me spell it out for you as though you were a four year old.

 

1. Time to live your life for yourself and not others!

 

2. Time to catch the bus to Mexico

 

3. Work to live ~ not live to work!

 

4. Others have a problem with that? That's what it is! They're problem! Not yours!

 

Billl is in the mail ~ I take Visa and Mastercard.

[trippi1432]

And that stems from both your personal and professional life ~ in short your the typical ambitious Western women ~ trying to do too damn much, be the answer to to many people's questions, the solution to ~ too many peoples problems ~ while seeking to be self independent ~ and not dependent upon anyone else ~

 

Jeez! No wonder your in the state of mind that your in?

 

Let me spell it out for you as though you were a four year old.

 

1. Time to live your life for yourself and not others!

 

2. Time to catch the bus to Mexico

 

3. Work to live ~ not live to work!

 

4. Others have a problem with that? That's what it is! They're problem! Not yours!

 

Billl is in the mail ~ I take Visa and Mastercard.

 

Gunny, this one is spot on!! In addition, via more thinking and discussions with family and friends, my biggest issue with my job currently is that I transferred all of this pent-up anger at the ex to the job. Right before I snapped, I remember telling one co-worker who was fussing about all the work he had and how I didn't give him enough time to do his job (2 week turn-around) that I had already lost a husband to my job, lost my son....I didn't have much else to lose.....which vein should I open for you to bleed all over?

 

I know it seems trivial to what you have been through. If I had to go through any de-tox program for me, it would to quit smoking like a freight train because my nerves are all up in the air, but fortunately my time in the clinic was for my nerves and observation, not for any alcohol related addictions (my heart goes out to you on that however, met many people there going through that in addition to other addictions - not easy).

 

As to any tests, no....my psychiatrist informed me that the diagnosis was based on observations by the clinic workers, himself and my therapist. Now he is claiming that it may be a mild case of bi-polar II. Today is my first day Depakote free. As I have come down off the Depakote, the crying jags have become even less frequent....so, I do believe that I pegged that side effect very well. We will see if he is correct on this new mood stabalizer; however, I agree with your advice above very much. Instead of a mood stabalizer, I need to quit living my life for others...and if people have a problem with it, it's their problem.

 

As to an MD, have not been working with my primary care professional as they would only refer me to the psychiatrist and therapist. Their office pretty much orders the blood work to see where the scripts levels are at as well as my blood pressure for any heart related issues. Perhaps mine is different since it is more nervous breakdown related? Not sure.

[trippi1432]

So, still working on my work issues....but digging down into the problem and trying to get the "will" to return to work and throw off this anger....at the job, at myself too I guess. Sorry so long of a post...

 

Today, I should be walking with my class for my ceremony, but I opted out...just as I did my undergrad. As I was telling a friend previously, the only degree that ever mattered to me was my Associate's. The reason, I worked full-time and went to school full-time as a single mom to get that degree....and it wasn't ego, it was the pride I saw in my daughter's eyes when she watched me graduate. It was worth it to hear her chant "Give Mom and A" for the classes that I worried I hadn't done well in. It represented some (a little) peace of mind that I could stand on my own two feet if need be after my first husband abandoned us with just a note on the kitchen table. It was about creating some type of security for myself and my daughter down the road.

 

Of course that didn't happen right away, never does coming right out of school. I free-lanced and worked some different jobs for a while before I met my current STBXH. He had just moved to town and had no job, I was on unemployment myself having just been laid off (again). Talk about a "match made in heaven".....LOL!!

 

What I have learned from that experience is that you don't really know a person until you have known them for at least a year....when I first met him, he claimed he only drank every once in a while. He failed to mention that he was a blackout drunk when he was with his friends, which was quite often. I tried to leave on a couple of occasions early in the relationship (after several fights where he would decide to throw my things around and break them, shove me and hitting me once.....and I do say ONCE as he received a death threat from a friend after that one).

 

At eight-month's pregnant, I couldn't take it anymore. The yelling, the screaming, the drinking, the put-downs, catching him in the act of being unfaithful and then his lying to me....so I ran. Someone previously told me that I never looked at my relationship with my current STBXH as an "Us"....it was really hard to think about our relationship as an "Us" at that time. I'm not going to say that I was entirely innocent during that time, I was hormonal (what pregnant woman isn't), I felt alone in a relationship....when he yelled and screamed, I yelled and screamed back and when he hit me and broke my things, I ran to my friend's house for protection. Having already been a single mom, I stood ground that I shouldn't have to put up with someone that didn't love me but being pregnant, I was also scared out of my mind.

 

I sold everything, my engagement ring, my furniture....any and everything I could and told him I was leaving to move four hours away where my parent's lived. At the last minute, he begged to come with me, and being scared of being alone, I let him. I don't know if anyone can fathom leaving a doctor's care at eight month's pregnant and having to start over just finding a doctor who will see you that far into term for delivery, but that is how bad the situation was. How much he needed to get away from the influence he was around and how far I was willing to go to protect myself and my daughter at that time. Maybe that is insanity or bi-polar thinking, but at the time for me, it was about survival.

 

While the move turned out to be the best thing that I ever did for "Us" due to finding a job in the corporate world after a few years. The influence of the alcoholism was still there. Old friend's (drinking buddies) moving nearby, drinking buddy relative's moving nearby....it was like never being free and him never being able to stop it. In one incident, I literally "fought" one of his old drinking buddies because I found out he hit his wife one evening while we were all out. He was also feeding shots of liquor to my STBXH after the bartender had cut him off....which got us all thrown out....all because my STBXH's best friend drinking buddy thought it was funny. After our altercation, his drinking buddy stopped drinking. His wife gave him an ultimatum to stop or she would leave. It had taken us all years, but I eventually talked to him at church one day and we forgave each other for what had happened. Today, he and his wife have a decent marriage still.

 

Having no one to drink with anymore, it took the STBXH a little bit of time to forgive me but eventually he tried to get into "family" life, five years into the relationship. I tried, believe me I did....but it just wasn't there. There was still this angst between us for what we had both gone through. A lot of angst from me because of having our kids go through it too. Is this truly a mental condition to be mad at an alcoholic.....maybe, maybe not, more a resistance to truly forgive. I continued on in the relationship, hoping for change, but truly not initiating it myself other than a couple of church visits, doing some Al-Anon visits and trying to get him back to AA, one couple's counseling session in which he just wanted to buy a book and fix it and trying to get him interested in doing some things with his son who was getting older. Things like tossing the ball with him out in the yard, taking him sledding when it snowed. I still have these pics....and they should represent proud memories.....but underneath, there still wasn't an "Us". As partners, it was more about just going through the "motions".

 

Yelling and screaming never really stopped for years....even the kids joined in fighting with each other.....maddening. I finally started school for some peace and quiet actually....next thing I knew, I was knee-deep in school and work....some of it out of the need to get ahead, make a life for my family (as STBXH liked to job-hop every once in a while)...but I think in a way, it was about being needed in a way I didn't feel needed at home. I worked hard and was appreciated at my job....I volunteered to be the team leader in my classes. I became very dependable to everyone, but my family. My STBXH and I could never be on the same page, so after he would finish up with one drinking buddy and decide he wanted to be a partner and a father, I tried to find the "Us" factor. To him, the only "Us" factor was sex....I wanted more than just that to our relationship, but it just wasn't there with him. The only conversations he enjoyed were talking about the past before me....and those were conversations he would spend hours on the phone talking to his friends and family about....again, no "Us".

 

I could have left at any time, I really don't know why I didn't other than the fear of being a single parent to two kids. I had the means to support us, but I just couldn't give up on him...didn't want to give up on him....and I was afraid of being alone again. When I bought "our" house (my house now), his income wasn't even factored in and I hadn't even finished my undergrad yet. I had hoped that by giving us all some security, we would finally find an "Us" and be a family. Didn't take long to become the yelling family on the block again. Me, got back knee-deep into work and school to block it all out. I finally asked him if he wanted to go ahead and get married since I had been wearing an engagement ring for 12 years (he had gotten me a new one). We decided it was time to and had a rush wedding in the middle of one of my projects at work. We came back from the honey-moon for me to go right back at being knee-deep in work and school again....more because my company demanded it of me now knowing how I worked (no boundaries).

 

Still, no "Us"....the only time I ever felt like there was an "Us" was one night after he came back home the first time after leaving. We both drank together, sat outside and talked....about us, about the future...but neither of us changed over the next month. Heck, I don't even recall what we talked about (being on medication too at that time) and I'm sure he didn't either.....but why was there an "Us"....because I was the being the "drinking buddy" that night. Looking back on the entire 15 years, that was the time there was an "Us". It was when he wasn't drinking alone....I just knew when to stop and had a higher tolerance back then, he didn't.

 

So, in looking at all of this, why he has decided to stop drinking now....maybe he has found his soul mate....being that we are both older now and she is the same age, been through two marriages herself...both to alcoholics, she has "more experience" at dealing with it and knows a different "Us" factor. Maybe, he did truly love me somewhere during those 15 years as something more than just a "woman who wouldn't sit on the couch watching soap opera types" as he called me. Maybe he realizes the things he should have changed to help make the "Us" and the family unit....I could have been pulled back at anytime from this corporate environment for the "right man with the right reasons"....but that didn't happen for us, I always got the evil twin.....a trust had been broken a long time ago.

 

So, now I sit alone with what I built for my family....I listen to the peace and quiet, and that has actually been a blessing. I do miss my son however....wish he were with me full time, but just cannot take the disrespect and treating me as his father did. I know I need to just let go of all of this anger, resentment of the job, the environment, at myself for being weak all these years. Funny, how you can have peace and quiet but still not have peace of mind.....I guess that is the mental condition.....or is it?

Edited June 11, 2010 by trippi1432
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