The dynamics of men and women...

[angelj]

There have been a few posts about this that I've seen in the past. Looking for some more insight...

 

Friendships between men and women...what are they really based on? Is it really possible that men can have a female "best friend" that is strictly platonic? I've read that men do not befriend women amd go out of their way for them unless they ultimately want something more from the friendship. Men - do you agree?

 

Do you also agree that a man in a relationship also having a very close female friend knowingly causing friction with the romantic relationship has alterior motives?

 

Just a few different scenarios I've witnessed my friends subject themselves to and even been a part of in the past. Thoughts?

 

Edited June 7, 2010 by angelj

[USMCHokie]

Friendships between men and women...what are they really based on? Is it really possible that men can have a female "best friend" that is strictly platonic?

 

Yes. I have several female friends that are strictly platonic.

 

 

I've read that men do not befriend women amd go out of their way for them unless they ultimately want something more from the friendship. Men - do you agree?

 

No. Examples for me include: girlfriends and wives of my good friends; women that are taller than me; women who would make better friends than lovers; coworkers; and the list goes on.

[ADF]

I've written many times that men almost never go out of their way to befriend woman unless they are attracted to them. And it's absolutely true. But that doesn't mean that men and women can't be friends.

 

Sure, most men would like to have sex with their female friends. But so what? They'd also like to have sex with random women they see walking down the street every day. All men, every day of our lives, interact with women we find attractive but who, for whatever reason, are not available. And we accept that. We can also learn to accept it about our female friends.

[somedude81]

Back when I was a preteen my stepmother was best friends with a woman who had twin daughters. For many years I was fine being just friends with them. Around 15 I starting getting the desire to have sex with them. They started getting boyfriends and around the same time my family moved. The friendship wasn't the same anymore and we just lost touch. Last thing I heard was that both girls ended up getting pregnant in their early 20's by boyfriends.

 

From then on, the only reason I went from acquaintances to friends with girls was because I wanted to sleep with them. In other words, if I didn't want to have sex with a certain girl, I'd never try to hold a conversation, get her phone number, or try to make plans with her.

 

So yes, sex was the motivation for a friendship. As we spent more time together I moved from just wanting sex with girls I hung out with to actually thinking of them as friends. Pretty often I'd fall for the girl and start to really like her. Every friendship eventually ended either because I knew that I was never going to sleep with them and didn't want to be with around her anymore, or that I actually tried to make advances and they rejected me, which ended up killing the friendship.

 

I've since learned that it is impossible for me to have a platonic friendship with a girl as long as I'm not being sexually satisfied. I'd constantly be thinking about having sex with her and if I actually fell for her, I'd end up getting really hurt when things don't work out.

 

If for some reason a girl rejects me and offers me the consolation prize of being her friend, I politely decline because I know what will happen if I stay close to her. I just can't turn off my sex drive because a girl doesn't like me. Also, I've never had a friendship with a girl ever become more than that. They've all rejected me

 

Since I've always been unsatisfied, I have a theory that I will be fine having female friends as long as my needs are being met. I'm just waiting to actually put it to test.

[angelj]

Interesting perspective. I agree with those thoughts, as I've always cultivated very close friendships with males that are platonic. I have also run into the scenario where the male was really interested in pursuing more but too afraid. Once, I proceeded and it turned into a long lasting romantic relationship that is still ongoing.

 

I have witnessed many people over analyzing the value of their friendship with the opposite sex. Always reading between the lines. From my experience, I've learned to think in black or white is much safer than incorporating the gray.

 

I am still somewhat involved with my former friend only that we've cooled off since I moved to another state. I have a male beat friend That lives nearby. I talk to daily, rely on for help and assistance and have an amazing social life with. Sure, there's an unmistikable chemistry..solid foundation of trust and lots of flirting. I still see it as a friendship. Of course I've imagined sleeping with him (I'm human...) and find him attractive! So question:

 

He has a girlfriend which makes me wonder if our relationship is inappropriate. The thought never once crossed my mind until I was bombarded with outsiders ("gray thinkers) opinions that we have "something"

 

see what I mean? The dynamics of men and women Used to seem so simple until society screws them up. (unless it's just denial )

[Morals]

Back when I was a preteen my stepmother was best friends with a woman who had twin daughters. For many years I was fine being just friends with them. Around 15 I starting getting the desire to have sex with them. They started getting boyfriends and around the same time my family moved. The friendship wasn't the same anymore and we just lost touch. Last thing I heard was that both girls ended up getting pregnant in their early 20's by boyfriends.

 

From then on, the only reason I went from acquaintances to friends with girls was because I wanted to sleep with them. In other words, if I didn't want to have sex with a certain girl, I'd never try to hold a conversation, get her phone number, or try to make plans with her.

 

So yes, sex was the motivation for a friendship. As we spent more time together I moved from just wanting sex with girls I hung out with to actually thinking of them as friends. Pretty often I'd fall for the girl and start to really like her. Every friendship eventually ended either because I knew that I was never going to sleep with them and didn't want to be with around her anymore, or that I actually tried to make advances and they rejected me, which ended up killing the friendship.

 

I've since learned that it is impossible for me to have a platonic friendship with a girl as long as I'm not being sexually satisfied. I'd constantly be thinking about having sex with her and if I actually fell for her, I'd end up getting really hurt when things don't work out.

 

If for some reason a girl rejects me and offers me the consolation prize of being her friend, I politely decline because I know what will happen if I stay close to her. I just can't turn off my sex drive because a girl doesn't like me. Also, I've never had a friendship with a girl ever become more than that. They've all rejected me

 

Since I've always been unsatisfied, I have a theory that I will be fine having female friends as long as my needs are being met. I'm just waiting to actually put it to test.

 

I'm sure that theory is somewhat correct. The fact that if you aren't in a relationship already, having a female friend is quite hard. You tend to feel connections more profoundly when you are single. The problem there is at what point is the connection TRULY there, and at what point is the connection just an amplification of your feelings while single?

 

There's no denying that men will have a different relationship perspective when it comes to friends then women. That much we can all agree on.

[Morals]

Interesting perspective. I agree with those thoughts, as I've always cultivated very close friendships with males that are platonic. I have also run into the scenario where the male was really interested in pursuing more but too afraid. Once, I proceeded and it turned into a long lasting romantic relationship that is still ongoing.

 

I think it's awesome that you not only knew he was interested, but also that you knew he was afraid and YOU pursued him. That's awesome of you! Do you think he was afraid of ruining the friendship? Was your friendship really deep and meaningful? Did you have that same fear though? That fear of possibly ruining a great friendship, which in itself is rare, by trying to pursue a relationship? And how did you actually manage this change? Did you just come out one day and say "Hey I like you?" What would you have done if the situation was reversed. If you were the one that was afraid, and he came out and "asked you" ?(Or whatever you did.)

 

I realize that's a lot of questions...so take your time

 

I have witnessed many people over analyzing the value of their friendship with the opposite sex. Always reading between the lines. From my experience, I've learned to think in black or white is much safer than incorporating the gray.

Can you elaborate on this more from your perspective? Couldn't you say that you were thinking in the "gray" area by the aforementioned friendship turning into relationship?

 

I am still somewhat involved with my former friend only that we've cooled off since I moved to another state. I have a male beat friend That lives nearby. I talk to daily, rely on for help and assistance and have an amazing social life with. Sure, there's an unmistikable chemistry..solid foundation of trust and lots of flirting. I still see it as a friendship. Of course I've imagined sleeping with him (I'm human...) and find him attractive! So question:

 

He has a girlfriend which makes me wonder if our relationship is inappropriate. The thought never once crossed my mind until I was bombarded with outsiders ("gray thinkers) opinions that we have "something"

 

see what I mean? The dynamics of men and women Used to seem so simple until society screws them up. (unless it's just denial )

No joke there!

[WTRanger]

The only "true female friends" that I have are the ones that I'm not sexually attracted to, which is about a whole 1% of all of the girls that I know. Even close female friends that I've known for years, who are married, I'm still in vulture mode. If that marriage or long-term relationship goes south, I'm not above swooping in. Ditto with any co-worker. I may lay off due to not wanting to deal with the whole office ink thing, but if one of us leaves that job or goes to another department, the hunt is on.

 

Yes men and women can be friends, but for the most part the sex thing is always in the air. It gets complicated when people repress or refuse to believe that men and women can be sexually attracted to each other. We may think we are a high-order species because we've got cell phones that can cook pancakes, but we've still got a fully functioning basic instinct brain that only requires three things. Shelter, food, sex.

[angelj]

I love that quote about the cell phone that cooks pancakes..how true

 

Looking back, I thinky close male friendships have always had sex in the air. They just have not been acted upon..minus the one that was acted upon...

 

I think my current "best friendship" does have some tension, but not enough to consume the friendship. It's natural for men and women to connect. Sometimes we just need that other pov.

[phineas]

I've written many times that men almost never go out of their way to befriend woman unless they are attracted to them. And it's absolutely true. But that doesn't mean that men and women can't be friends.

 

Sure, most men would like to have sex with their female friends. But so what? They'd also like to have sex with random women they see walking down the street every day. All men, every day of our lives, interact with women we find attractive but who, for whatever reason, are not available. And we accept that. We can also learn to accept it about our female friends.

 

That's where I am now.

Sometime's, i'd rather cook dinner & watch a movie with a woman friend fully knowing I'm not getting any action than sit home by myself & enjoy my own company.

sometimes.

 

Hence I now have one woman friend.

That's really enough for me. LOL!

[Engadget]

I had one female friend I never got involved with. My best friend in high school was also a girl, but eventually we had sex.

[sally4sara]

I think women can be friends with men just fine quite often. Unless a woman actively hates men in general, at which point, why would she even want to have a male friend?

 

But for a man to have a real friendship with a woman, he has to actively like women in general. He has to be able to see them as being people just like him and everyone else. He has to be able to recognize that women are not here just for the sexual needs of men and they don't disappear from existence once he walks out of the room. I'm sort of stunned that we still, in 2010, have men who cannot do this. Oh well, maybe by 2110?

 

For a man who struggles to do the above, it doesn't matter if he is in a relationship or not. In fact, it wouldn't be a good idea for him to try to be friends with a woman ESPECIALLY if he is in a relationship. The moment his relationship has unrest, he will use that as impetus to try to sleep with his female "friend" because he doesn't really like women unless he is getting something out of them. If he really liked women, he wouldn't require sexual motivation to enjoy the company of a woman with similar interests.

[Morals]

I think women can be friends with men just fine quite often. Unless a woman actively hates men in general, at which point, why would she even want to have a male friend?

 

But for a man to have a real friendship with a woman, he has to actively like women in general. He has to be able to see them as being people just like him and everyone else. He has to be able to recognize that women are not here just for the sexual needs of men and they don't disappear from existence once he walks out of the room. I'm sort of stunned that we still, in 2010, have men who cannot do this. Oh well, maybe by 2110?

 

For a man who struggles to do the above, it doesn't matter if he is in a relationship or not. In fact, it wouldn't be a good idea for him to try to be friends with a woman ESPECIALLY if he is in a relationship. The moment his relationship has unrest, he will use that as impetus to try to sleep with his female "friend" because he doesn't really like women unless he is getting something out of them. If he really liked women, he wouldn't require sexual motivation to enjoy the company of a woman with similar interests.

 

True,but you have to look at it from the other side of the coin.

 

If you really liked someone of the opposite sex, and really meshed well with them, and you were both single. WHY NOT try to have a full blown relationship? (and not JUST sex either, the whole kit-n-kaboodle)

 

The idea behind opposing sexes is that if you are both enjoying each others company so much, why not see if it could be a lifelong relationship?

 

You don't see this with guys because normally guys aren't attracted and don't click that well with other guys. Sure you might enjoy watching the same team play on tv. Or you might enjoy playing the same sport each week. But only when guys are gay do they consider other guys (that are also gay) to be relationship material. Understand what I'm getting at?

 

The dynamic isn't that men and women can't be friends, but that we are more or less coded in our genetics to want more out of our relationships with the opposing sex if we find ourselves connecting well.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Morals

[sally4sara]

True,but you have to look at it from the other side of the coin.

 

If you really liked someone of the opposite sex, and really meshed well with them, and you were both single. WHY NOT try to have a full blown relationship? (and not JUST sex either, the whole kit-n-kaboodle)

 

The idea behind opposing sexes is that if you are both enjoying each others company so much, why not see if it could be a lifelong relationship?

 

You don't see this with guys because normally guys aren't attracted and don't click that well with other guys. Sure you might enjoy watching the same team play on tv. Or you might enjoy playing the same sport each week. But only when guys are gay do they consider other guys (that are also gay) to be relationship material. Understand what I'm getting at?

 

The dynamic isn't that men and women can't be friends, but that we are more or less coded in our genetics to want more out of our relationships with the opposing sex if we find ourselves connecting well.

 

It doesn't compute to me. I have many friends of both genders that have qualities I admire and value while still not having the qualities I know I want and need in a romantic relationship.

What you're describing sound to me like you believe anyone who's company you enjoy is someone you can have a great romantic relationship with. It brings to mind a handful of friends I have that I enjoy tremendously, but their drinking habits or spending habits (as examples) are not what I would prefer in a relationship.

[Feelin Frisky]

If a woman is a good conversationalist and is worldly wise enough to get some of my humor and/or appreciate my intelligence, I can be close friends with her even if she doesn't appeal to me sexually. It's hard on the other hand if here's some unexplainable attraction before we really get to know each other. Truth be told, that attraction unfortunately can overrule good sense and turn into an infatuation with someone who never even heard of 60 Minutes et al.

[Morals]

It doesn't compute to me. I have many friends of both genders that have qualities I admire and value while still not having the qualities I know I want and need in a romantic relationship.

What you're describing sound to me like you believe anyone who's company you enjoy is someone you can have a great romantic relationship with. It brings to mind a handful of friends I have that I enjoy tremendously, but their drinking habits or spending habits (as examples) are not what I would prefer in a relationship.

 

Can you really say you enjoy their company that much if you find their drinking/spending/<whatever> habits? Sure, there are different levels of friends. I know some female friends who are cute, but I wouldn't consider relationship material. I thought we were talking about people we connect with really well...

 

In that case, no I don't view anyone whom I enjoy company with. I might enjoy ACTIVITIES with certain people. But I wouldn't enjoy their company all the time, only when doing certain socializing activities.

 

Please don't put words in my mouth. If I find myself with someone I truly enjoy doing many different things with, that also has similar life views as me, then yes I do consider that a friendship that go on to something else.

[carhill]

Friendships between men and women...what are they really based on?

 

IME, mutual interests, shared philosophies and common ground of experience.

 

The best female friend I came to know was someone whose parents owned a take-out Chinese place my mom enjoyed eating at. I went in to pick up food one time and started chatting with her and moved on from there. We enjoyed cycling, talking about business (she was a business major in college), art, travel, music, etc. I never got the sense that she was attracted to me and I never felt any sexual feelings towards her, even though she was a quite lovely Asian lady. The dynamic was a different kind of intimacy. We lost touch, as I did with many of my single friends, both male and female, when she became involved with someone whom she eventually married. We had a good 10-15 years of fun and I cherish those memories greatly.

 

Do you also agree that a man in a relationship also having a very close female friend knowingly causing friction with the romantic relationship has ulterior motives?

 

No friendship gains priority over one's committed partner/spouse, IMO. A female/male friend who does not support and respect the relationship/marriage is not a friend. In such a circumstance, if a friend was purposely causing friction, or if I perceived such, I'd end the friendship. If a man is 'using' such a friendship as a tool, yes, IMO he has ulterior motives. That's unhealthy.

[sumdude]

In an ideal world it would seem the best case scenario would be a partnership between best friends that had good to great sexual chemistry. After all even if you have sex every day (right not after the first year you won't) that's still maybe 30 - 60 minutes. The rest of the time you're co-existing and spending time together.

 

So if you are really good friends and there is attraction wouldn't it make sense to pursue it? Yet there's some bizarre stigma or counter intuitive thing with so many people.

[Morals]

In an ideal world it would seem the best case scenario would be a partnership between best friends that had good to great sexual chemistry. After all even if you have sex every day (right not after the first year you won't) that's still maybe 30 - 60 minutes. The rest of the time you're co-existing and spending time together.

 

So if you are really good friends and there is attraction wouldn't it make sense to pursue it? Yet there's some bizarre stigma or counter intuitive thing with so many people.

 

My thoughts exactly.