Pressure

[tojaz]

There is a lot to be seen in my divorce now that I can look back on it without the anger and panic and blind love clouding my vision. A year later, in the quiet moments I still hear the words over and over in my head. The things she wanted and that I had caused her to miss out on. Her writing, her schooling, her career , etc. All things not only within her control, but things that I had always loved about her and did my best to support her in. Standing at her graduation, award ceremonies at her work are some of my proudest moments and I did my best to show that. I look through the pictures on my walls and the other things I cherish and I do not see me, the cars I've built, races won, they are her award ceremonies, and her banquets. One of my most prized possessions is a tattered copy of her novel in progress. I think of all the late classes I waited up for her and all her presentations I had watched proudly. I beat myself up for a long time because I had believed her. I looked back at all I had done and looked for where I had fallen short, how I had robbed her. How I thought myself out of line in the times I had wanted to be recognized for a moment. All that was there was these words over and over "Then I reached a breaking point that one day and I blurted out what had been on my mind, that something had to change, that there was really only one thing in my life that I could not change, but that had prompted me to change an awful lot, and that was my relationship with you. I though t the best thing to do for myself was to move on, that even though it hurt and even though it seemed so selfish, it was the right thing for me to do." I took these words to heart and believed them at face value. My old threads illustrated that quite well, and that was what she needed me to do. She had let her writing fall away, had not done the things she had done and didn't like all that she saw in herself compared to how she thought she would be.......... And needed someone to blame. She wanted to get back on track, be more the girl she used to be, more the girl I had fallen in love with. Something I had alway wanted for her and had noticed and talked with her about for quite some time. Tried my best to encourage her in her projects and writing and asked her to take the reins when it came to our free time together in order to better explore her lost interests. When she would point out how overbearing the housework could be, I offered to help or just asked that she let it go as those things were not as important to me. While I was not a saint, I did my best to be supportive of all the things in her life and that was hard a lot of the time, but I could see it was hard for her as well to keep balance. She gave her all to everything she did, always has. When those things overlapped though? What happens then? There was no balance. How could there be? If you give all to your work, all to your family, all to your house hold, and all to your marriage, what happens when those things overlap? Giving all to one shuts another out, and I found I was usually on the losing side of that equation, because I was the one that would accept the punishment. It makes sense really. Work was important, and I would always be there. Family needs her and wants to visit? Didn't happen everyday so what's the harm? I would be an ass to stand in the way. In a lot of ways, I did it to myself I guess, by accepting that. My own version of going along to get along.

 

The harm was that these demands gradually increased. Agreeing to more and more responsibility at work meant bringing it home creating that dreaded overlap. Reconnecting with her family pulled her in yet another direction. Became common to find plans were forgotten, work commitments made, family commitments made with little thought made to me. She would later tell me that this just proved she really didn't love me that much, but I truly don't believe thats the case. I think to use her own words, it was "going along to get along" not just with me but with everyone. In the work environment, she would accept the added responsibilities, teach the extra class, present the extra confrence. It was career mode. Family wants us to drop everything and drive out, done deal. Shortly before the D I had come home from an hour commute and a hard day at work to be informed that we would be leaving shortly for a 5 hour drive to deliver something to her father, good daughter mode. Slowly "OUR" time became less and less. Strange thing was....."our" time was still great. When we could find it, we were the same as we always were.Something she had admitted herself but failed to see the correlation (so did I) that without the pressures of all the other demands pulling for her undivided attention, on a vacation for instance, we were us!!! Yet add in another factor and her decisions truly became dependent on who was in the room with her. I was the man in the middle grasping for scraps and seeing my wife being pulled apart by all the demands in her life that she felt she had to give 100% to. I never asked for that, I had always just asked for balance and for my feelings to be considered once in a while. It became harder and harder to bite my lip, and many times I couldn't because I had lost so much. I started to fight to get it back, and in doing so became just another direction for her to be pulled in, but I was the only thing that overlapped so I was the only thing that put pressure on the others. The only one that had to see the cause and effect, a source of resistance, and I was no saint. The more I was asked to give up, the more little things I saw as slights. A night talking to her dad while I sat quietly, or losing focus to her laptop or drifting for a moment in conversation, seemingly small things that truly wouldn't have mattered much, yet cumulatively meant an awful lot. She had no way to know, heck I didn't even know at the time. The pressure she had put herself under must have been tremendous.

 

Our divorce played out very much the same way and that plays a big part in my finding myself stuck at times. Like I've said, it all happened very quick and that was the way she wanted it. She needed to escape the pressure, and I was not very sensitive to that to be honest, I was in panic. Even though that I have stated before that she hadn't tried, I believe she did, scratch that, I KNOW she did the best she could. She didn't know how, neither one of us did. In the handful of days we devoted to working on it, once again, the pressure was tremendous! So much that she would cry and have a panic attack!!! Shaking and had trouble breathing. PRESSURE! and I was the one putting it on her, cause I was in the fight for my life. She ran as fast as she could to somewhere the pressure wouldn't get her. To those that would support her no matter what, those that made it easier. It played out a couple times. Times when I had hurt enough and just wanted it to be over, I would just tell her to go, and she would stay. Ask her to stay and she would go. That was the defense. She called me once out of the blue. I stopped on the side of the road and spoke to her for two hours. It was a good talk and a lot came out of it. She asked me flat out what I thought we would need to do to make it work and I asked her to take a break and I would talk to her later and asked that she just not file the papers until we did. A call to her support and the next I heard from her was that she had filed and how good it felt. The other conversation never happened. We had a nice talk once, walking for hours and just talking about anything and everything, I tried to say very little, to absorb it all, and we laughed and we joked, and we both cried. A number of times she would reach out and hold my hand, until she realized what she was doing and jerked it away like I had accosted her. I was in hell, but did my best not to let it show and when we returned, I helped her load her things into the car and after a hug that seemed to last for hours, she was off to a motel with the promise we would work on things some more. We never really did. A couple days later found her in a bar with another guy. I confronted them and that story has been told here many times. The part that wasn't was that I had given up, I had enough, or so I thought. I followed her to her motel room and we talked and it was the same dynamic again, panic and pressure, and confusion. Asked her what she felt for him and he was just a friend, what she felt for me and she didn't know. Related how someone else had explained why she "really didn't love me that much" She was letting someone else tell her how much she loved me!!!!!! I gave up, told her I was done and just wanted the keys to my place and she could do whatever she wanted. All of a sudden the shift. Then it was she just needed some time to figure things out. She said she would come home tomorrow and begged me to please not leave, to stay there with her. I wish I had but I thought I was doing best by her to let her be alone to gather her thoughts and left. She called her "support" and the next day informed me she wouldn't be coming home. So it went, the constant battle to keep distance, to stay angry. To run!

 

I dont think it was running from me though. Not in the sense that I thought at the time. I really think it was more running from the pressure that I represented. From the conflict and demands of being a Proffesional, a student, a daughter, and a wife and trying to keep it all in balance. Looking back at the things she wrote and things she said that have always hurt, but I never really tried to relate to, but really make me think now. Things like telling me she didn't want to do counseling because she didn't want someone to change her mind, or that she avoided me because I made her doubt her decision. I saw those parts then and reacted callously, seeing her frustration at being torn as a reason to persue, to pressure. We were both in panic. That pressure didn't convey my message though, instead it just gave her more reason to run. If I only knew then what I think I know now.

 

 

TOJAZ

[You Go Girl]

After reliving all this in your head, what do you intend to do with any recent relevations?

[What_Next]

Your post was definitely helpful to me. I also feel that my wife is going through some of the same emotions that your Ex was. I have a strong belief that for her at this point in her life divorce is the only way she can visualize continuing.

 

I now realize that I am a large part of why she feels this way and I have also began to change my actions. In addition I now know that I have been adding to the pressure she feels since she finally told me she wanted a divorce. That is perhaps my biggest mistake.

 

I am out of the house now for a few days and we are starting MC next Monday. I have left all communication up to her and we are taking over the phone, but we are keeping the conversation light and easy.

 

Do you have any advice for someone that is currently going through what you went through?

[DadofTwoGirls]

You are your spouses closest person to her..you are the one she lashes out at first in what ever makes them unhappy..it all comes down to the fact that someone takes their frustrations out on their spouse..many try to figure it out themselves but eventually just give up on that process and move to the 'quicker, easy' way out...GETTING AWAY FROM WHOMEVER THEY THINK IS CAUSING THE UNHAPPINESS...I find the quick fix they use fails more than it helps..they remain unhappy but no longer see what they left as an option.

[sotagoon]

..many try to figure it out themselves but eventually just give up on that process and move to the 'quicker, easy' way out...GETTING AWAY FROM WHOMEVER THEY THINK IS CAUSING THE UNHAPPINESS...I find the quick fix they use fails more than it helps..they remain unhappy but no longer see what they left as an option.

 

I think this is pretty spot on, and at least in my case, each time she has "escaped" what she perceives as the "problem"....she finds a fill in for me in some other guy.

 

The only thing this does (in my opinion) is gives her/them a temporary distraction. (Allows for small excitement to push the "real" issues to the background for a while.)

 

In my own situation, she came back the first two times, I'm assuming that it was just easier for her to feel comfortable with me when the "root" issues surface again.

[trippi1432]

I think that it is great that you are seeing these things Tojaz, I have always considered you one who does have strength of character (many meanings, but one that holds true for you, doing the right thing even if no one knows you are doing it).

 

It's good that you see the pressure that was underlying in your marriage, many people don't....many just go on their merry little way doing whatever their heart pleases with little regard to their spouses (and yes, mine was one of them). I worked toward what I thought our family needed without regard to whether my ex was happy or not and vice-versa with no boundaries.

 

So, where is the middle ground? Being you and letting her be herself but being an "us" when you are together? Being proud of her accomplishments as well as her being proud of yours? Too many times one spouse has to make concessions because one doesn't acknowledge the other or one fails to acknowledge their own accomplishments - where were your pictures, where were your accomplishments? (I can ask this as I have two degrees that I didn't even walk for and they do not hang on my wall anywhere...I could care less about them because no one in my family cared about them either). They were a sore spot and took me away from what was more important, my family.

 

So, if possible (and I know it is), perhaps you and your ex should read Law# 10; the Law of Exposure, I think it relates very much to what you both were going through. A short piece....and point her to this post if you like or email it to her.

 

"The whole concept of boundaries has to do with the fact that we exist in relationships. Therefore, boundaries are really about relationships, and finally about love. That's why the Law of Exposure is so important.

 

The Law of Exposure says that your boundaries need to be made visible to others and communicated to them in relationships. We have many boundary problems because of relational fears. We are beset by fears of guilt, not being liked, loss of love, loss of connection, loss of approval, receiving anger, being known and so on." (Cloud & Townsend, 1992)

 

".....Because of these fears, we try to have secret boundaries. We withdraw passively and quietly, instead of communicating an honest "no" to someone we love. We secretly resent instead of telling someone that we are angry about how they have hurt us. Often, we will privately endure the (perceived) pain.....instead of telling them how their behavior affects us and other loved ones, information that would be helpful to their and (your) soul." (Cloud & Townsend, 1992)

 

Her accomplishments all around, where were your accomplishments...you had them too......but you held a secret boundary to put her up higher than yourself. Not a bad thing, but still not a good thing either. Equality in a marriage is accepting each other for both their strengths and weaknesses...with and without boundaries.

"In other situations, a partner will secretly comply with her spouse, not offering her feelings or opinions for (years), and then suddenly "express" her boundaries by filing for divorce." (Cloud & Townsend, 1992) Sound familiar? The next piece of that book actually applies to me not setting limits on my children and resentment. One familiar to me.

 

"In these instances, because of unexpressed boundaries, the relationships suffered. An important thing to remember about boundaries is that they exist, and they will affect us, whether or not we communicate them." (Cloud & Townsend, 1992)

 

"....But, because of our fears, we hide aspects of ourselves in the darkness, where the devil has an opportunity. When our boundaries are in the light, that is, are communicated openly, our personalities begin to integrate for the first time." (Cloud & Townsend, 1992)

 

Cloud, H., & Townsend, J. (1992). Boundaries: When to Say Yes, When to Say No, When to Take Control of Your Life (pp. 100-102). Grand Rapids: Zondervand.

 

So, I give you this, my friend.....not because boundaries are meant to be selfish, they are meant to establish an honest relationship built of love and compassion. While it may be a strength of character to not be concerned about your accomplishments being important, they are equally as important as hers....perhaps from a different perspective, but not to be dismissed by YOU!! I do not say by her as I do not feel that she dismissed them, I think that YOU did....and that was a choice you made due to your strength of character (yes, you know what I am referring to).

 

You have tremendous self-worth that you have learned from her, knowing her and continue to learn because you are taking it upon yourself to grow. Taking these perceived "pressures" into consideration, where would "new" pressures have fallen out in your marriage without truly establishing the boundaries of the roles, be they traditional or non-traditional?

 

Again, you are learning, but you aren't responsible for carrying that boulder of what didn't work in your marriage all by yourself. You know that.

[DadofTwoGirls]

sotagoon, I'm sorry you had to experience that more than once..I can imagine the 'betrayal' feeling being much worse to the spouse who has never strayed from the betraying spouse.

[tojaz]

Your post was definitely helpful to me. I also feel that my wife is going through some of the same emotions that your Ex was. I have a strong belief that for her at this point in her life divorce is the only way she can visualize continuing.

 

I now realize that I am a large part of why she feels this way and I have also began to change my actions. In addition I now know that I have been adding to the pressure she feels since she finally told me she wanted a divorce. That is perhaps my biggest mistake.

 

I am out of the house now for a few days and we are starting MC next Monday. I have left all communication up to her and we are taking over the phone, but we are keeping the conversation light and easy.

 

Do you have any advice for someone that is currently going through what you went through?

 

What Next, the best advice I can give is to learn from where I went wrong. The communication you and your spouse have is a fantastic gift that many of us did not get, we never made it to MC and I blamed her for that for a long time, but that one was on me. Trying to save a marriage is a marathon, not a sprint. It is far to easy at the slightest hint of a positive response to push for more and want to keep the conversation going. Let your wife feel safe and secure when you talk, and know that if emotions run hight then you MUST STOP!

 

The temptation is always to jam as much in to any conversation when the opportunity presents. Thats what I did and what were supposed to be safe chats turned in to a trial for both of us pushed to the breaking point. Set a time limit for your talks that you both agree on, take time outs if either one needs to compose yourself, and try your best to part happy or at least peacefully.

 

Most of all, dont panic and be patient and sensitive with her. It may not seem like it, but is just as hard emotionaly on her as it is on you. Before you say or do anything, regardless of the situation, remind yourself that you are talking to the person you love. I look back at many of the things i said and did in the D and I am truly disgusted and ashamed. :o:o

 

TOJAZ

[tojaz]

You are your spouses closest person to her..you are the one she lashes out at first in what ever makes them unhappy..it all comes down to the fact that someone takes their frustrations out on their spouse..many try to figure it out themselves but eventually just give up on that process and move to the 'quicker, easy' way out...GETTING AWAY FROM WHOMEVER THEY THINK IS CAUSING THE UNHAPPINESS...I find the quick fix they use fails more than it helps..they remain unhappy but no longer see what they left as an option.

 

I think this is pretty spot on, and at least in my case, each time she has "escaped" what she perceives as the "problem"....she finds a fill in for me in some other guy.

 

The only thing this does (in my opinion) is gives her/them a temporary distraction. (Allows for small excitement to push the "real" issues to the background for a while.)

 

In my own situation, she came back the first two times, I'm assuming that it was just easier for her to feel comfortable with me when the "root" issues surface again.

 

Both of you have pretty much the same look I have, yes its the quick fix, the bad part is it becomes a mission to defend that. Usually vague accusations and the "support" group, all the friends that will gladly say He was this or she was that as the case may be. In my case, many of the people giving her advice, had never even met me! Had never even seen us together.!!

 

TOJAZ

[D-Lish]

T, You seem to minimize the fact that you also did the best you could in the marriage. Sure, there are things both of you can take away from this as a life lesson- but as much as you say you weren't a saint- you were supportive and flexible as far as I can draw from your posts.

 

There is nothing wrong with wanting some validation for your own hard work and accomplishments- you deserve to have that as well.

[You Go Girl]

T, You seem to minimize the fact that you also did the best you could in the marriage. Sure, there are things both of you can take away from this as a life lesson- but as much as you say you weren't a saint- you were supportive and flexible as far as I can draw from your posts.

 

There is nothing wrong with wanting some validation for your own hard work and accomplishments- you deserve to have that as well.

 

I wonder...did this selfless service to her pressures create an atmosphere in which it became all about her? It seems an imbalance was created in which she forgot there was another person with feelings and needs just as important as hers, and Tojaz put himself on the back burner, so she did too. It was honorable, but it backfired, am I right?

[trippi1432]

Just my opinion, but a man should never be in the shadow of his wife....they should stand together as a team no matter who accomplishes what, who has the higher education or who earns more.

 

My ex felt this way....I had the better job, higher earning potential and his friends all called him a "kept man". This caused a lot of his hostility toward me.....not saying that this is the case with the marriage we are referencing here though.

 

Men need to be respected in a marriage, what they bring to the plate...just as much as women want attention and affection, men want that as well. There is a lot to be said in a man who would sit and drink coffee all night while you enjoy yourself drinking cocktails and never say a word about it. It's respect....a quiet respect that most people would never notice. It's knowing when a man is hurting and needs a distraction and your support.

 

And you know what....that's 98% of what most marriages are missing today. The little things that matter and standing together against the odds.

[sotagoon]

It's knowing when a man is hurting and needs a distraction and your support.

 

And you know what....that's 98% of what most marriages are missing today. The little things that matter and standing together against the odds.

 

 

THANK YOU...you made my day.

 

This is all I have ever wanted...to know that the daily battles are appreciated and respected.

[Gunny376]

tojaz

 

I'm from Alabama and did twenty years in the Corps ~ as you know of course.

 

I got forced into seeking treatment ~ either that or lose my job ~ and being 53 living in rural Alabama in this economy isn't a place you want to be.

 

So I made an appointment with a psychologist who referred me back to my Primary Care Provider (as TriCare calls them) who for the last three months has had me on antidepressants and anxiety drugs.

 

My psychologist had me take a test, and I was diagnosed with depression, anxiety, and PTSD. (Hell the test cost six hundred dollars ~ I could have told you all of that beforehand? WTF?)

 

I laughed when I read the report from the test! "Subject has experienced traumatic and/or near death experiences and has been traumatized by such resulting in insomnia, nightmares. Has had a loss of self confidence and self esteem (Went from being a Marine Gunnery Sergeant to a lab (rat) tech.)

 

Subject has been "institutionalized" No freaking kidding!

 

My point in telling you this is that since I've been on the meds? I've stabilized ~ and the people that I work with have noticed it, my boss has noticed it. My work performance is up, I make fewer mistakes, I take things slower. I don't stress about anything ~ nor worry about anything.

 

I'm not having the highs and lows ~ I was walking around with a Rambo state of mind ~ PO at the world and everyone in it. (Not to mean that I was going to go "Rambo" just that I was PO with the world and everyone in it.)

 

Little things would PMTFO, now they don't. I take it all in stride. I laugh and smile more ~ I'm more polite.

 

It got me to thinking more on the positive side of things, and has changed my perspective and attitude.

 

I saw my psychologist today ~ Great guy ~ I should have gone years and years ago.

 

I didn't because here in Alabama ~ if you so much as mention that your seeing someone for mental, emotional etc problems? Your a nut case! Your deficient.

 

Ditto in the Marines ~ (Although I would imagine that's less the case ~ trouble is? Anything you tell a military psych? Can and will be used against you!)

 

All of this self confession to tell you ~ your suffering from depression and you need to go and seek professional help. You need to quit beating yourself up and quit self flagellating yourself.

 

At the very least? Go and discuss it with your MD. "I went through a divorce a year ago, and I'm feeling,..............................

 

They've seen and heard it all brother! Trust me!

 

The meds they've got me on? I'm not walking through life depressed, mad, angry, PO at the World and everyone in it. I smile more, laugh more, easier to get along with, lash out at others, give others less of a hard time, more patient, more polite, say "Thank you, appreciate you or that"

 

I sleep better and more sounder. Less tossing and turning. The nightmares (To graphic to describe) have gone.

 

I'm a good 60% or better back to being me! (I was the Robin Williams of my HS Class)

 

Years later after retiring from the Corps and old HS best friend came by my folks house to see me whom I hadn't seen since graduation.

 

He told me ~ "You've changed!"

 

I had pretty much changed into Clint Eastwood's character "The Outlaw Josey Wells"

 

Everything I cared and had loved about had been ripped from me. Torn from me. I had been through this and that? I had been through Hell. Or at least my version of it?

 

And we all have our own version of it! Of what Hell is!

 

Do yourself a favor Bro ~ don't suffer as I did for fifteen damn years! Man up and go and get some help!

 

There's no shame in feeling depression over loving a woman you loved so much ~ too much that left you for no good GD reason! (Damned allergies making my eyes water! )

 

Anyhoo! My psychologist says that I've become isolated to avoid "triggers" and reminders of past traumatic events.

 

Got that right!

 

The Hell of it is? I read about an Air Force Forward Air Combat Controller.

 

They work with Special Forces and are the ones that use GPS, highly defined lasers on targets to place missiles and bombs, do calculus in their brains to take out targets. They can literally put a laser on a camel's azz and take out the camel and the rider!

 

His PTSD makes mine look like .000000001? He's been in a lock down VA ward for the past year and half.

[tojaz]

I wonder...did this selfless service to her pressures create an atmosphere in which it became all about her? It seems an imbalance was created in which she forgot there was another person with feelings and needs just as important as hers, and Tojaz put himself on the back burner, so she did too. It was honorable, but it backfired, am I right?

 

Very much so YGG. Not so much that I actively put myself there, so much that I wound up there. I worked very hard to help her reach her goals and be supportive (at least I think I did). For quite awhile that was reciprocated, but that slowly deteriorated. Then as things degraded as i look back, it was usually when I found something I would like for myself. I started trying to look after myself because she had stopped. I guess she really summed it up best "I dont want to have to care about you anymore" "I'm so sick of talking about your feelings".

 

I actually hate myself for missing her right now.

 

TOJAZ

[sotagoon]

"I dont want to have to care about you anymore"

 

This must be in the "COLD B!TCH" manual somewhere? I got it too....VERBATUM!

 

Oh yeah....after I was the "rock" through her 10 month cancer treatment(s) & surgery.

She left on the last day of her radiation treatment.

Edited June 9, 2010 by sotagoon

[tojaz]

T, You seem to minimize the fact that you also did the best you could in the marriage. Sure, there are things both of you can take away from this as a life lesson- but as much as you say you weren't a saint- you were supportive and flexible as far as I can draw from your posts.

 

There is nothing wrong with wanting some validation for your own hard work and accomplishments- you deserve to have that as well.

 

Thanx D-Lish. I did do the best i could at the time. I'm not really trying to beat myself up.... honest!

 

Gunny, I hear you man, and i have been seeing a counselor for over a year and we have talked about depression and such and discussed the meds with my MD even thouh I didn't like the idea personally I was willing to go along with some professional advice. Due to all the meds I am on for respiratory issues, I was told I would be better off trying to do without for the time being.

 

TOJAZ

[trippi1432]

THANK YOU...you made my day.

 

This is all I have ever wanted...to know that the daily battles are appreciated and respected.

 

You are very welcome sotagoon....at least you GET IT.... unfortunately many men and women are too selfish to truly understand it.

[sotagoon]

You are very welcome sotagoon....at least you GET IT.... unfortunately many men and women are too selfish to truly understand it.

 

That's amazing.....even when it benefits them..they still won't/can't appreciate that it's done with care and concern for them.

[tojaz]

After reliving all this in your head, what do you intend to do with any recent relevations?

 

Well, that is the question YGG, and I really don't know the answer. As i have put on my Giving up thread, some recent events had brought all of this to the surface recently bringing about some of this thinking. I would like to do a lot of things with it in my mind, but in real life, who knows. Probably nothing more then sharing it with those on LS who are still in a position to use the new information I guess.

 

I think that it is great that you are seeing these things Tojaz, I have always considered you one who does have strength of character (many meanings, but one that holds true for you, doing the right thing even if no one knows you are doing it).

 

It's good that you see the pressure that was underlying in your marriage, many people don't....many just go on their merry little way doing whatever their heart pleases with little regard to their spouses (and yes, mine was one of them). I worked toward what I thought our family needed without regard to whether my ex was happy or not and vice-versa with no boundaries.

 

So, where is the middle ground? Being you and letting her be herself but being an "us" when you are together? Being proud of her accomplishments as well as her being proud of yours? Too many times one spouse has to make concessions because one doesn't acknowledge the other or one fails to acknowledge their own accomplishments - where were your pictures, where were your accomplishments? (I can ask this as I have two degrees that I didn't even walk for and they do not hang on my wall anywhere...I could care less about them because no one in my family cared about them either). They were a sore spot and took me away from what was more important, my family.

 

Well Trippi, to be honest, my accomplishments didn't really mean much to me. My greatest accomplishment in my mind was to be a good husband. Do right by her and her family as if they were my own. I took much more pride in her accomplishments then i ever did my own, always did. Her diplomas and awards were all framed and displayed. Not by her, but by me. Small known fact.... Tojaz has a degree, nobody would know because i haven't a clue where it is.

 

So, if possible (and I know it is), perhaps you and your ex should read Law# 10; the Law of Exposure, I think it relates very much to what you both were going through. A short piece....and point her to this post if you like or email it to her.

 

 

 

So, I give you this, my friend.....not because boundaries are meant to be selfish, they are meant to establish an honest relationship built of love and compassion. While it may be a strength of character to not be concerned about your accomplishments being important, they are equally as important as hers....perhaps from a different perspective, but not to be dismissed by YOU!! I do not say by her as I do not feel that she dismissed them, I think that YOU did....and that was a choice you made due to your strength of character (yes, you know what I am referring to).

 

You have tremendous self-worth that you have learned from her, knowing her and continue to learn because you are taking it upon yourself to grow. Taking these perceived "pressures" into consideration, where would "new" pressures have fallen out in your marriage without truly establishing the boundaries of the roles, be they traditional or non-traditional?

 

Again, you are learning, but you aren't responsible for carrying that boulder of what didn't work in your marriage all by yourself. You know that.

 

Yes, I did dismiss them willingly. Many things I gave up, I never told her. Don't really regret that though. In fact I always put that as part of being a good husband and it was just something that happened. I was more proud of her then i was of myself.

 

I will definitely read what you suggested Trippi, as for sending it to her...... as much as I would like to and even my first instinct is to. I guess I'm just not brave enough.

 

TOJAZ

[What_Next]

If anyone happens to find that cold hearted b___h manual please send it my way. I can sure use it. I came home today after a few days of "space" to a deep freeze.

 

I can deal with it and will keep my mouth shut, but I am seeing some of it rub off onto my child. That I cannot deal with.

 

This whole living under the same roof but going in seperate directions thing is getting old fast. We are headed to MC on Monday, but I really don't know what good it will do.

 

Perhaps its time to read the writing on the wall and figure out some way that we can just end this.

[tojaz]

Stay strong what next, MC will help so long as you both give it a chance. Keep in mind that my ex wouldn't do MC because she was afraid it would save the M, and shes read the manual, so there has to be something to that. Hang in ther man, just be cordial until monday.

 

TOJAZ

[sotagoon]

Keep in mind that my ex wouldn't do MC because she was afraid it would save the M

 

 

Yep....same reaction here...except I got the.."Ok, I'll think about it, but it would only be for closure."...God forbid we might actually find out that the "pressures" could be eased and there be a solution...but that would ruin the plan of the OM.

[What_Next]

Stay strong what next, MC will help so long as you both give it a chance. Keep in mind that my ex wouldn't do MC because she was afraid it would save the M, and shes read the manual, so there has to be something to that. Hang in ther man, just be cordial until monday.

 

TOJAZ

 

I'm trying, oh how I am trying. We went out shopping tonight for groceries and for the most part it was fine. Even some small attempts at humour on both of our parts. She did do a few things that pi__ed me off and I simply asked her not to do that. She complied.

 

She had asked that she take the weekend and go to a "girls weekend" with some friends. I am honestly not sure if that is what she says it is or is a continuation of her EA, or phyiscal affair which she claims to not be involved in. I initially resisted, but perhaps I just need to tell her to do what she wants, since the weekend would be a write off anyway.

 

It's so hard to be under the same roof, its very odd. I also know it is effecting our daugther, she is just not showing it. My STBX (I realize that is more appropriate to be calling her now) seems oblivious to the entire thing.

 

I guess I'll never understand the female mind

[What_Next]

It's funny how sometimes all the advice you need is sitting right in front of you and you are too pig headed to follow it.... I could not bring myself to utilize the 180 all at once. It would have been too big of a personality shift and I would have likely failed.

 

However, I can put into practice bits and pieces of it and slowly learn to adhere to it. I'm already noticing small impacts of this plan. I wish I could go complete NC; but that's just not possible and with a child in the mix is not the correct route anyway.

 

Each day I feel a little stronger, a little more empowered and a little more willing to face what comes next. Maybe the handle I chose for this forum is very appropriate after all.