Reading his email?

[Benedict]

... nothing is.

 

In earlier posts, I pointed out that reading her email was how I confirmed she was having an affair. Well, I confirmed my suspicions that way, I got final confirmation from her lips. I also pointed out that out of 100 times, given the same circumstances, I would do the same thing 100 times. There are greater and lesser evils in this world. While I recognize the slippery slope here, I am willing to commit a few lesser ones to prevent some greater ones.

 

As far a scale goes, marital infidelity is in a whole 'nother league than email snooping. I would submit that anyone who disagress with that statement has experienced neither.

 

And does the trust ever come back either way? Sh*t, I just don't know. There are days when I just plain do not worry about it. There are also days when I think I must be moronic to ever trust her again. Unfortunatley, today is one of those latter days . Regardless of my belief that if you don't want someone to see "X", then do not leave "X" accessable, I still have not looked again. No, I do not know her password; yes, she still leaves her email open and on the screen when she leaves. Leaves the house that is. I can't worry about whether she is or she isn't. That is some really unproductive time! There is not a forkin' thing I can do about what she will choose to do.

 

Then I ask myself about whether or not I would actually, really, truly want to know if she were. I just don't know . It's all pretty circular, very frustrating, and I want it to go away.

[xalysabethh]

i TOO FOUND out about my Husband s cheating by snooping i listened to his phone messages and saw his phone records. I wish it hadnt come to that but it had. we are trying to wokr things out and i dont listen to his phone or things he does agree to show me his phone records and stuff but that is his suggestion not mine. i dont knowi think checking up etc is not right but i also agree unless our in the situation or the other persons shoes its hard to say waht you would or wouldnt' do

[Girlie]

Let me say, I do think it was wrong of me the times in the past when I have snooped to find out that I was being cheated on, I was wrong. You should never stoop to that level. As I said, I go with my gut now and just dont' get myself involved in those types of situations. However, I think that's a concept that took me time and maturity to figure out. Am I sorry for what I did? Yes and no. I'm sorry that I was ever that immature. I'm not sorry that I found out before I made the huge mistake of not going with my gut and ending up with one of those losers. It's a tough thing though. I can honestly say when I was in those situations, I certainly wasn't using the best rational thinking I ever had. I was freaking out and trying to protect myself...at their expense. It was wrong, but a lesson learned.

[lost_in_chgo]

That's funny. Both times I snooped it was with good cause and I turned out to be right.

[moimeme]

I'm with Meanon, Benedict and Girlie. If you have a suspicion, you need to verify, somehow, whether you are imagining things, in which case you know you need to drop your suspicions pronto, or whether there is something substantial which is triggering your instinct. I don't think there's one of us who would deny that instinct exists and that it can be a valuable guide, but we have all also been prey to idle fears and sometimes it can be difficult to figure out which is at play.

 

Yes, Dyer, a relationship in which this sort of thing happens is not very pleasant, but particularly if there are several years invested in a marriage, one doesn't wish to ditch it due to suspicions which may prove to be unfounded i.e. caused by one's own anxieties for whatever reason. You cannot assume that the trust and happiness and security you feel in your relationship now, or at the beginning of the marriage, will continue unabated. Years pass, things happen, people change.

 

I would not condone nor participate in 'checking up' for frivolous reasons, but if a pattern of inexplicable acts/situations began to occur, how else would you deal given that it's not that simple to just walk? As Jenny points out, the person can lie - and then what have you to stand on?

 

And isn't it unusual that some folks who are soft on infidelity are so adamant about not trying to discover whether infidelity takes place? The ethics here are skewed, IMHO. As Benedict points out, the betrayal of marriage is by far the greater breach of trust.

 

DA asks:

So if you have found out (not by snooping, by being confronted by someone, possibly your SO) that your SO had cheated, do you feel it is an invasion of privacy to make sure the contact with the OW/OM has ended? That is of course assuming they still wanted to have a go at making your relationship work.

 

The common answer to this by relationship gurus of all sorts is that someone who has betrayed a partner MUST be as transparent as glass in order to earn back the trust of their betrayed partner. Certainly a liar and cheat ought not expect to be thought of as honest and faithful - until s/he proves that the situation was indeed a one-time aberration and that it won't be repeated.

 

How many people have we seen on LS who have been cheated on repeatedly? You can bet their partners demanded their 'privacy' after the first incident precisely so they could continue to hide their deceit.

 

Which is why, when the question was first asked about privacy, I said I was fine with my partner seeing whatever he wants to see and knowing whatever he wants to know. I prefer someone to be able to trust me fully and there is nothing so sacred about my 'privacy' that I couldn't give up in the cause of letting someone feel I am trustwothy. In particular, people who have been cheated on or abandoned already have trust issues and baggage - it "neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg" to allow someone with trust issues that much access if it will assuage their discomfort. Sure, people 'should' trust each other, but wounded hearts don't obey shoulds very well.

 

As time goes by, the chances that you will end up trying to build a relationship with a wounded heart tend to increase, and so you need to adjust attitudes accordingly.

[DerangedAngel]

Sure, people 'should' trust each other, but wounded hearts don't obey shoulds very well.

 

As time goes by, the chances that you will end up trying to build a relationship with a wounded heart tend to increase, and so you need to adjust attitudes accordingly.

 

Great post, Merry.

 

-Deranged

[Benedict]

Which is why, when the question was first asked about privacy, I said I was fine with my partner seeing whatever he wants to see and knowing whatever he wants to know. I prefer someone to be able to trust me fully and there is nothing so sacred about my 'privacy' that I couldn't give up in the cause of letting someone feel I am trustwothy. In particular, people who have been cheated on or abandoned already have trust issues and baggage - it "neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg" to allow someone with trust issues that much access if it will assuage their discomfort. Sure, people 'should' trust each other, but wounded hearts don't obey shoulds very well.

 

I think that this says it very well. Thank you, Moi

 

And it is a desire for just some of this type of understanding from my wife that leaves me so frustrated. Things do not just go on "as usual"... not for me anyway.

[peakey]

Originally posted by dyermaker

I think that even if I was being cheated on, it wouldn't justify equally unscrupulous acts on my behalf. If there was a lack of trust that led to me OBSESSING over a CRAPLOAD of evidence that leads me to believe I'm a doormat, I think I'd kiss the relationship goodbye. .... If I'm getting the same detrimental effect as if I'd been cheated on, without any evidence to prove it, I'd still be equally distressed than if I had proof. Therefore, no invasion of privacy is neccessary, and I wouldn't do it.

 

I seriously admire those like dyermaker who can stick to their principles on this issue. And it's a principle that I have always agreed with. Eg., I hate the idea that people, or governments, or groups, can pry into an individual's life.

 

But I have to admit that in my own relationship, I could not stick to the principle of respecting privacy. While I feel ashamed of that, I do believe I was protecting my rights, not to mention my sanity.

 

I did ask my H whether he was having an affair before I stooped to snooping. He denied it. And for more than 3 yrs, he denied affairs until confronted by proof. He was not, repeat NOT, going to come clean about it. He took advantage of my soft nature, the part of me which was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I'd hate to think that someone would consider me a doormat for wanting to believe him. What else can one do? Is it right to sit around waiting for someone to admit they are unfaithful? What if they never do? Can you *really* break up a relationship because you're paranoid? What if you're wrong? What if you're just overly sensitive or paranoid?

 

My H violated truth, honesty, integrity, trust, he made a mockery of our life together. He behaved in a selfish manner, and would use his right to privacy to cloak his dishonest dealings. I believe I would have been a doormat indeed if I had not taken matters into my own hands, and decided to snoop for proof of his infidelity.

 

I had strong suspicions that he was cheating, but I had no other evidence. I believe in being fair, in giving people the benefit of the doubt. I could not break it off with him just because I was *scared* he might cheat. That doesn't sound right to me. I could have been wrong. I also have two children with him. Under those circumstances, there was no way I could "kiss the relationship goodbye" based on what I first thought was just my paranoia. But, he would have continued to cheat, having his cake and eating it, denying me his full attention, love, respect etc, and on top of that, made me feel like a queen-b**ch for not trusting him. If I hadn't snooped, would I still be sitting around in a cloud of self-doubt, mistrusting my gut feelings, but staying on for the sake of our children? Without knowing the truth? I'm sure that should be one of the levels of hell!

 

So, the question at hand is, do you snoop out of morbid curiosity? NO WAY! But do I regret having snooped myself? And invaded my husband's privacy? NO WAY! I guess in my case, practical needs outweighed principle.

[dyermaker]

I think you knew this, but I just wanted to clarify. For the emotionally abused wife who yearns for proof--I was not advocating just being sedentary and taking such abuse, while sticking to the noble principle of respecting one's privacy.

 

Rather, I was saying that, to me at least, proof isn't neccessary. If I felt as insecure, worried, and justified enough to invade my husband's privacy. I would also feel that I had enough EMOTIONAL proof to leave the relationship, without evidence. Like I said, I'm a lover, not a cop--If somehow I violated the privacy, and came up empty handed, I wouldn't feel good about the relationship, I'd still be abused, because my husband was still cheating--I may even be more frustrated, that I wasn't able to catch him.

 

Also, if I invaded his privacy and got my proof--there would be no glory in my victory, it would only solidify what I had already known--our relationship has problems. And if those problems were there, I'd fix them or leave, regardless of whether I had forensic evidence.

[Arabess]

Niko,

I would LOVE to take the moral high road here......BUT as usual....I won't.

 

When I was in my last relationship....I spent endless hours trying to hack his damn email. I just wanted to READ IT! No real reason.....I was nosey. Finally, I got into one of them.

 

Unfortunately, he is with military intelligence and CAUGHT ME! He thought it was 'sweet' that I cared that much about him. He then gave me all his passwords.

 

........I doubt he would consider it very sweet NOW.....but I sure wish I could get into his email again....and YES I've tried.....hahaha!

 

Just because it's a thought of yours....doesn't make you devious. I think it's normal to be curious about the person you love. I DO understand the privacy issue and I DO respect it but GAWD.....how can one keep from wanting to know all things?????? I just liked reading his email between him and his buddies. I enjoyed learning about how he interacted with other people.....and all the nice stuff he said about me.

[moimeme]

Rather, I was saying that, to me at least, proof isn't neccessary. If I felt as insecure, worried, and justified enough to invade my husband's privacy. I would also feel that I had enough EMOTIONAL proof to leave the relationship, without evidence

 

But, Dyer, there are times in relationships when people do go through emotional times and don't feel good about the relationship which, as the others point out, can be a function of your own issues and which may be fixable. People can develop fears and obsessions that have nothing to do with their partners; we have several folks on LS battling this sort of thing. You don't just dump a relationship because you develop uncomfortable feelings.

[brashgal]

The issue of privacy is so important to me that it will be something I ask about when I get to know a potential partner well and if he feels that his privacy is more important than our relationship, I won't stay in the relationship. I've decided I want someone who is an open book.

[anasazi66]

Good food for thought, all of this. I myself am struggling mightily with this question of "to read or not to read" because I have strong reason to believe that my wife is cheating on me, despite her denials. Would reading her e-mail (as a means to confirm or discard my fears) improve my rapidly eroding self-esteem? Probably not, no matter what I read. That being the case, could I live in my own skin if I stooped to invading her privacy? Hard to know right now.

 

All that aside, there are probably unintended consequences of reading your mate's private e-mail. It's easy to take e-mails out of context. It's probably one of the worst forms of communication, in that you can't see a person's facial gestures or body language, or hear his/her tone of voice. Quite often, e-mails are written in incomplete sentences with sloppy grammar. If you're not privy to whatever prompted the writer to say what he or she wrote, you don't have a full understanding of the situation. It would seem to be easy, then, to misunderstand the writer's "unedited air." What kind of needless hurt would you carry around from that?

 

I like Arabess's observation, that she learned about her husband by watching how he interacted with his buddies. We all interact with friends differently than we do with our mates, even though our mate may be our "best friend." But what happens when you learn some things about your mate that you might personally find unsavory? Or something chilling from his or her past that has been kept mum? At some point, will it affect how you interact with your SO? You bet. Read at your own peril.

 

Then there is the issue of "girl talk." Ladies, help me out here: How much "stuff" said between girlfriends is exaggerated, or just plain bull? Men do this all the time. I can imagine my wife saying "Oh, my husband (fill in the blank with something negative)," to a friend, but in the context of a girl-to-girl conversation, what's the likelihood that this is nothing more than a benign exaggeration of some small kernel of truth? If that's what it is, should I put much stock into such an exchange via e-mail (especially with no other context)? Would it be easy to mistake such an exchange between friends as something intentionally disparaging and hurtful about me? Or should that exchange be taken with the proverbial grain of salt?

 

So many questions. Seems to me that reading e-mail for the sake of "morbid curiosity" just isn't worth the "payoff."

[niko1999]

Arabess, Im glad to have someone on my side in this situation. I have not read his email, but if I wanted to hack into it, I could, its almost like he is teasing me to, he has a notebook, and it has the first letter of al his passwords, with his screenname, followed by stars for the rest(as IF I couldnt put them all together), which makes the chance even MORE so tempting. But, alas, I have not. A long time ago he told me he would let me read his email, that theyre boring and he gets nothing good. So I guess this also stems my curiousity, the fact that he once told me I COULD. Thats the thing, I respect his privacy, he is more of a private person, and I am nosey as Hel!. Which makes it worse

[saintfrancis]

I am a latecomer to this thread but I am curious Arabess how you got caught?? Did the fact that he was in military intelligence not deter you??

[echocrush]

You know, I've been there and I don't ever want to go back. Yes I had every reason to believe he was cheating on me, I caught him in bed with someone three months after we got married... and instead of leaving I stayed and drove myself insane for the next 6 years. I can't and won't ever do it again...

 

He said he cheated on me because I didn't trust him, I thought he was doing it anyways so there wasn't much reason to fight it when I thought he was doing it anyways. The thing that always fried my brain was did he cheat because I was jealous, or was I jealous because he cheated??? The chicken or the egg huh?

 

I kind of feel like I lost the ability to be jealous... I just gave up and don't give a damn now. I haven't checked up on my new husband once, but then again I've never felt the need too... but... I do know he checks up on me, reads my journal, my emails etc. I have to be honest... sometimes this makes me WANT to keep things from him.

[Pyrannaste]

Originally posted by niko1999

Does anyone else feel like this sometimes with thier SO?

 

me

 

Only reason why I haven't broken into my boyfriend's email is that I didn't guess his password.

Well, not that I tried to guess it a lot of times.

It's half curiosity and half desire to check on him. (I once found out he told a girl in a forum that he was willing to explain her how to masturbate via e-mail, so I'd really like to be sure he's not flirting online).

 

Once I was at his computer and started reading his msn messenger chat logs.

"Silvia, are you online?"

"no, i was just reading your MSN chat logs"

"[annoyed] I'll protect them with a password"

"go on. BTW, this friend of yours you were talking to about vibrators is an idiotic b*tch"

 

(girl whose conversation with my bf I read sometimes calls him on his mobile phone at 3.00 a.m. (not real calling, she just makes the phone ring once), once sent him sexy pics of him, and usually cheats on her boyfriend. I'm not jealous, just annoyed. She is *stupid*.

 

BTW, I wouldn't mind my bf breaking in my email. I'd actually love him to. I gave him my PW, don't know if he's ever used it.

I don't mind if he reads text messages on my mobile phone. I'm actually glad if he does.

[pinklove]

It's a thought, I'll bet if we could read those e-mails, we'll learn alot about our man, I guess that's why it's personal.

[dyermaker]

I think you'd learn a lot about yourself.

[pinklove]

As if u would know.

[dyermaker]

No, I mean that I think you'd learn a lot about the level of your commitment--and there IS something to learn about yourself from an evaluation of trust that comes from introspection. If you found nothing, how would it feel? I think that knowledge is to be legitimately learned from breaches of privacy, and won't claim I haven't learned the same for myself.

[Bill]

I wouldn't mind my girlfriend reading my email, just as long as no one else reads it. I feel bad enough that my computer is locked, by password, all the time. I might give her the password, just for the hell of it. I have nothing to hide, I just fear someone else losing my data! I backup, but not enough.

[pinklove]

I do think that it is envading ones privacy as well,

 

I mean I wouldn't want my man to read my e-mails, because some people confide in me with personal info that they don't want anyone else to know, and if I want to know so bad about my man and what he does on his computer, then why not just ask him? Maybe he would tell the truth, but dyermaker, I wouldn't want to read my mans e-mails, but it is a thought, but I wouldn't invade his privacy like that. That's shows I don't have any trust in him, and if I can't trust him, then why am I wasting his time and my time trying to build a relationship that won't work because I can't trust him?

[dyermaker]

No, I totally agree--I've said it before, perhaps on this thread even, but privacy and secrecy are two seperate ideas, just because you desire privacy doesn't mean that you have something to hide.

[pinklove]

Exactly dyermaker;

 

Me and my fiance' are trying to work things out. We did alot of talking and I learned a whole lot just by asking him instead of snooping around behind his back. That's why people have problems in relationships, because of lack of communication and so forth. I mean if the relationship means so much to you, why not just sit down and talk about what's on your mind. It's very simple.