How important is education in your SO?

[MrNate]

I think now is an optimal time for the moderators to come in and let this thread die a quick death.

 

All you guys are doing is just a combination of bragging/showboating and throwing around insults. I'm pretty sure we can do without this.

 

It doesn't matter who is educated in what, or where you were educated. In the end, none of us care. I don't see why we need to become uncivil over this matter.

[Ihavenoidea]

I think now is an optimal time for the moderators to come in and let this thread die a quick death.

 

All you guys are doing is just a combination of bragging/showboating and throwing around insults. I'm pretty sure we can do without this.

 

It doesn't matter who is educated in what, or where you were educated. In the end, none of us care. I don't see why we need to become uncivil over this matter.

 

I actually thought it was a really good discussion to be honest

[Mimolicious]

If everyone would have to go and private message each other to engage in conversations, this wouldn't be a forum.

[VertexSquared]

I don't think by saying you went to a good school you are automatically bragging. It's being stated within the context of the discussion.

[carhill]

"It's important to me that a potential spouse is intelligent and educated on a wide variety of topics, in addition to being well-traveled and knowledgeable about world culture, politics and economics"

 

Why?

 

It's an aspect of compatibility that a lifetime of 'settling' has taught me is a non-negotiable aspect of compatibility.

 

See, no animals were harmed and no universities were named.

[Mimolicious]

I think now is an optimal time for the moderators to come in and let this thread die a quick death.

 

All you guys are doing is just a combination of bragging/showboating and throwing around insults. I'm pretty sure we can do without this.

 

It doesn't matter who is educated in what, or where you were educated. In the end, none of us care. I don't see why we need to become uncivil over this matter.

 

US is a lot of people... If you don't care, then why bother with the thread? Mr. Nate, if something bothers you, report it to the moderators directly. This way goes straight to where you want it to go. That's being civil.

[Confusedalways]

"It's important to me that a potential spouse is intelligent and educated on a wide variety of topics, in addition to being well-traveled and knowledgeable about world culture, politics and economics"

 

Why?

 

It's an aspect of compatibility that a lifetime of 'settling' has taught me is a non-negotiable aspect of compatibility.

 

See, no animals were harmed and no universities were named.

 

Nice summary. Carhill, wise words as usual!

[Engadget]

I am not implying that education matters more than personality. For me, I'd want *both* to be present. I don't think it's necessarily snobbish to want an educated, intelligent woman.

 

Yes but what you're saying is, if you meet a great girl with all the qualities you look for who doesn't have a college degree, you'll snub her. That's snobbish.

 

I look for personality and intelligence, neither of these need a degree to be present. I don't date girls with only X and Y, it's who I'm attracted to. I've dated educated girls, and non-educated ones. Ones with black hair, blonde hair, short, taller, skinny, fatter, etc.

 

I don't discriminate, it's who they are to me, not what pithy degree they carry.

[Confusedalways]

I can't help but wondering if this is partly generational-- I know Marsle, Vertex and myself are all around the same age, and it seems that we are the ones who are placing more of an importance on a degree, passion in education, etc.

[WintersNightTraveler]

I hate talking about education early on when meeting women. I am very well educated, and I find if that if they are less so it sometimes puts them on the defensive, needlessly. I can evaluate someone's intelligence without having to ask about their alma mater.

 

In the long term, intelligence and education are very relevant to me, but it is not the first thing I check.

 

This whole thread illustrates exactly why I hate bringing up my alma mater on early dates. Since there's not much else to go on at that point, all the assumptions about my background, personality and desires come out, as well as people's insecurities about their own education. And it gets blown way out of proportion and talked about more than it warrants and in the wrong manner.

[Mr White]

Sure, but the cost is also an investment, and the major benefits may come later. Economically, what you roll into for your entry-level job has a large impact on how your track unfolds. It's the reason why we see such a large earnings gap in the data as people get older and move up their careers. Going to a better school simply results in an intensely strong network -- if you land a top job after undergrad, you're set. I can tell you from experience that at these jobs, they're *packed* with Ivy + top-school kids. There are certainly people from other schools, but it's so much harder to stand out. Ibanking, for example, is notoriously hard to get into if you're not from a top school.

 

Again, most of the benefit comes from the networking, competition, resources, and faculty -- not the education in itself.

 

This being said, to keep on topic, education is only a correlation-based factor when evaluating someone to date. You'll find brilliant, motivated kids from non-top schools who were not financially able to attend (or maybe they didn't bother applying in the first place).

 

I don't deny any of the above, just sayin' that the amount of random error in career outcomes is larger than you imply, while the positive outcomes are not "insanely" hard to achieve even from "lesser" stargin position, given enough motivation. Moreover, the above dynamics really only holds for the very very very top few schools (and the extent to which it works has ZERO to do with the actual education - um, the former president was a Yale "C" student for crying out loud. Some education he got .

Also, there are tons of "decent" private schools that are just as expensive, with less the benefits. An example I'm looking at and scratching my head right now: an acuintance just graduated from Loyola University (in Chicago) with a degree in Business. What does he have to show after 4 years? 160k debt, no job, no job prospects, and a few "bros"!

[carhill]

I can't help but wondering if this is partly generational-- I know Marsle, Vertex and myself are all around the same age, and it seems that we are the ones who are placing more of an importance on a degree, passion in education, etc.

It was generally the same thing when I was in engineering school. The 'important' kids from my private high school were accepted to major 'names' and that was a big deal. Remember when high school grads parents bought ads in the newspaper announcing where daughter and/or junior were accepted? Yup, it was the 70's, long before you were born

[WintersNightTraveler]

Also, there are tons of "decent" private schools that are just as expensive, with less the benefits. An example I'm looking at and scratching my head right now: an acuintance just graduated from Loyola University (in Chicago) with a degree in Business. What does he have to show after 4 years? 160k debt, no job, no job prospects, and a few "bros"!

 

If you come out with 160k in debt either you likely either made some bad decisions (like not filing any financial aid paperwork and not working while you were studying), have parents who are completely loaded, or both.

 

I agree that if it's a list price comparison of a top state school versus a top tier private school, the state school is more often a better fiscal choice. Even more so against a typical private school rather than top tier.

 

However people are acting as if just anyone can get into places like UC Berkeley. This is not so, and if you're out of state many public schools are nearly as expensive as a private school.

 

It's also rare for anyone to pay face value or not get any grants at all going to a top tier private school. If you are paying full price, there's a good chance you can afford it. In my case, the best school I was admitted to was actually one of the cheapest options due to financial aid. I worked a lot with my financial aid office and at least there they seemed to work extremely hard to help students who genuinely needed the aid.

 

Finally, it's not a purely fiscal decision.

[Confusedalways]

Personally-- I don't care whether someone went to Columbia or some state school down the road. What I do care about is that they sought higher education [for the right reasons].

[marsle85]

Yes but what you're saying is, if you meet a great girl with all the qualities you look for who doesn't have a college degree, you'll snub her. That's snobbish.

 

I look for personality and intelligence, neither of these need a degree to be present. I don't date girls with only X and Y, it's who I'm attracted to. I've dated educated girls, and non-educated ones. Ones with black hair, blonde hair, short, taller, skinny, fatter, etc.

 

I don't discriminate, it's who they are to me, not what pithy degree they carry.

 

This is where I disagree. What gives someone the right to prefer a certain racial preference, but not education? Surely each individual is entitled to pursue ideals they value, and wish to follow... I absolutely have the right to "snub" someone because he does not have a degree. I'm choosing my LIFE partner, aren't I? Ultimately, his decisions and lifestyle impact MY life, my kids, my happiness.

 

I agree that I may be rejecting individuals who are smart, motivated, whatever. But the fact is- if he doesn't have a reliable, effective method of providing for himself and our potential family... are all of those great qualities enough?

[marsle85]

Nope, why should I?

 

I absolutely agree... however it appears you have knowledge of IT-tech that many do not have. Would you say that any one could preform your job well with training? I'm interested.

 

My brother dropped out of undergraduate school and he makes a considerable income working with computers. This was his calling, he enjoys it and is very, very good at what he does. I know many do not have the same tools and expertise with computer systems as he does- so the normal person probably could not work in his shoes (at least not easily).

 

If he did not have these tools and resources, my brother would be at a lack of potential career opportunities that paid as well, and provided the same benefits.

 

You know a trade, which is great for you.. but what would you suggest for the average person leaving highschool? To find work somewhere? Or to go to school and learn something?

 

Your views limit the goodness of education. For many, it is a preferable method to achieve what you have already achieved. You may not have needed school, but most people do. Let's talk about the other 2/3 of individuals who DON'T have a degree. What are they doing? What kind of lifestyles do they live? Are they comparable to your own? Didn't their choice/inability to go to college risk them financial distress? Unreliable employment?

 

I'm not willing to take that risk for myself- why should I take it for my significant other?

[Ihavenoidea]

I absolutely agree... however it appears you have knowledge of IT-tech that many do not have. Would you say that any one could preform your job well with training? I'm interested.

 

My brother dropped out of undergraduate school and he makes a considerable income working with computers. This was his calling, he enjoys it and is very, very good at what he does. I know many do not have the same tools and expertise with computer systems as he does- so the normal person probably could not work in his shoes (at least not easily).

 

If he did not have these tools and resources, my brother would be at a lack of potential career opportunities that paid as well, and provided the same benefits.

 

You know a trade, which is great for you.. but what would you suggest for the average person leaving highschool? To find work somewhere? Or to go to school and learn something?

 

Your views limit the goodness of education. For many, it is a preferable method to achieve what you have already achieved. You may not have needed school, but most people do. Let's talk about the other 2/3 of individuals who DON'T have a degree. What are they doing? What kind of lifestyles do they live? Are they comparable to your own? Didn't their choice/inability to go to college risk them financial distress? Unreliable employment?

 

I'm not willing to take that risk for myself- why should I take it for my significant other?

 

This is a great post.

 

In all honesty I believe everyone could learn the skills in IT, unfortunatley most of it comes from self motivation and answer searching. Unless you have the desire and will to learn, it isn't the best trade. There are other methods such as seminars and "boot camps." Like your brother people can learn it but some things will take longer than others. IT is very broad some skill sare easy while others are extremely difficult.

 

Example:

Help Desk is easy and solves basic computer problems, like word and printer options. (Not as skill intensive most people can do)

Network Engineers design and implement Network layouts and configuration. (Extreme amount of knowlege and skills, very limited people can do)

 

I admit that I advise most people to continue their edication simply because I do look at myself as some what an anomoly and I not everyone will achieve success the same way. I believe however that you need to indentify which one is for you, trade or edcation and follow it.

 

I can't speak for the other 2/3's but I can guess the the 1/3 with degrees have a greater probably than those who don't or atleast don't have a trade. As well as all your other questions I think a degree can help with that but perhaps a trade skill can as well.

 

I would say that my experience has narrowed my view of the goodness of education.

 

I think if people really want something they will go get it. I believe those other 2/3's could go get degrees and could get a trade but not everyone can work the same job. We still need waitress and janitors and secretaries and trash truck drivers. NOTHING is wrong with those jobs but they don't require a degree, but someone has to work them, not everyone can have a nice job.

 

I remember reading a woman tried sueing her college for the amount of her 4 year tuition because she couldnt get a job with her degree when she graduated. I think she lost but I think we can agree its a stepping stone, its not something you can totally rely on.

Edited June 9, 2010 by Ihavenoidea

[Engadget]

This is where I disagree. What gives someone the right to prefer a certain racial preference, but not education? Surely each individual is entitled to pursue ideals they value, and wish to follow... I absolutely have the right to "snub" someone because he does not have a degree. I'm choosing my LIFE partner, aren't I? Ultimately, his decisions and lifestyle impact MY life, my kids, my happiness.

 

I agree that I may be rejecting individuals who are smart, motivated, whatever. But the fact is- if he doesn't have a reliable, effective method of providing for himself and our potential family... are all of those great qualities enough?

 

You have the right to do it, just as I have the right to think it's incredibly snobbish to be that way. It's the same way for only dating people of a certain physical characteristic as well.

 

College degrees are not the be all, end all of earning potential. FFS, I know people with Masters who cannot find a job, and people with BA's washing dishes. Add to that the insanely inflated cost of an education, and for some it's simply not worth it.

 

Would you date an english major with no job prospects? Is money truly that important to you?

[marsle85]

This is a great post.

 

In all honesty I believe everyone could learn the skills in IT, unfortunatley most of it comes from self motivation and answer searching. Unless you have the desire and will to learn, it isn't the best trade.

 

You say the skills you use as an IT can be learned by nearly anyone. So, what stops them? Why isn't every one an IT? In an earlier post you commented some IT-technicians earned as much as a doctor. Do you consider this fair? Do you consider your job (to which you say ANYONE can do) as difficult as a doctor's? As vital to a society? Should an IT-tech earn as much as a doctor?

 

I admit that I advise most people to continue their edication simply because I do look at myself as some what an anomoly and I not everyone will achieve success the same way. I believe however that you need to indentify which one is for you, trade or edcation and follow it.

You look at yourself as an anomaly, with views completely inconsistent from the norm...yet you consider yourself and your opinions applicable to the average person? Hardy. You were fortunate to earn a solid job you enjoy. That's great- but this is far from the norm. It appears to me, you must have a general amount of intrinsic intellect... Success is not generated by pure logic, but a cocktail of opportunity, motivation, preserverence and intelligence. The same can be said of of a PhD. I cannot fathom why you wouldn't complete your degree, but it's clear something fueled that intellect to apply to an aerospace engineering program. Key word: fuel. Your goal may not have been to become a certified Aerospace Engineer, but to find a economically sound career... another opportunity presented itself, and you dropped out of school. Trades are far less common than the traditional pursual of a field. What of those individuals who were not granted the same choice you were? What do you tell them? Go to school. You were granted a Plan B. What if you were not given that choice? What would you have done? You would have finished your degree. Ask yourself why. Because it's a small percentage of trade jobs that offer the same benefits as being educated in a particular field.

 

I can't speak for the other 2/3's but I can guess the the 1/3 with degrees have a greater probably than those who don't or atleast don't have a trade. As well as all your other questions I think a degree can help with that but perhaps a trade skill can as well.

You "can't speak" for the remaining 2/3 without degrees, but you feel comfortable enough speaking for the 1/3 with degrees? I think you represent the degree-less grouping better than the latter. I think you're a great example of how financial security can be granted without a degree- but you would be doing an injustice to students and peers by explaining WHY you're successful. I think it can be derived by a relative amount of intelligence and propensity for success... but certaintly not by avoiding a degree. You are the exception, not the norm...

 

I think if people really want something they will go get it. I believe those other 2/3's could go get degrees and could get a trade but not everyone can work the same job. We still need waitress and janitors and secretaries and trash truck drivers. NOTHING is wrong with those jobs but they don't require a degree, but someone has to work them, not everyone can have a nice job.

No one choses their fate out of a hat. Fate is not selected by chance. No one is discounting the serving-class. I have worked in retail the last 4 years, and was a grocery-market cashier prior to that. In the summers I volunteer at local parks and clean up trash. I have worked those jobs. Will that be my career? No. Because that outcome is not pleasing to me, and I guarantee you that janitor (if given the chance) would love your job. Your views are stagnant and too accepting. Not everyone is comfortable being so comfortable. And this is when the factors described prior: opportunity, motivation, preserverence and intelligence come into play. Fuel. Somehow, someway- the unsuccessful are missing an ingredient in the formula.

 

Your salary is irrelavent, our values are rightfully different. You may be happy, that's great for you. But when I visualize my career's expectations, anything less than critical thinking and challenge is settling. I want to live comfortably, more than comfortably. The difference is: alternate offers will not diverge me from my path. Luckily, I have fuel.

 

I remember reading a woman tried sueing her college for the amount of her 4 year tuition because she couldnt get a job with her degree when she graduated. I think she lost but I think we can agree its a stepping stone, its not something you can totally rely on.

 

A stepping stone is much more reliable than none at all. Education is what you make of it... the countless opportunities education fosters (socially, mentally, physically and emotionally) fuel.

[marsle85]

You have the right to do it, just as I have the right to think it's incredibly snobbish to be that way. It's the same way for only dating people of a certain physical characteristic as well.

 

College degrees are not the be all, end all of earning potential. FFS, I know people with Masters who cannot find a job, and people with BA's washing dishes. Add to that the insanely inflated cost of an education, and for some it's simply not worth it.

 

Would you date an english major with no job prospects? Is money truly that important to you?

 

 

I would surely date an English major with no job prospects. And we would move to a location where he could find a job. Yes, a stable financial life is imperative to me. Why is this a shock? You understand my values, and my expectations. You are not my boyfriend- why does this offend you so much? We have varying interests, and my preferences are not the topic in this forum. Leave my personal life out of this.

[stillafool]

There are a variety of traits I desire in a woman, and I am going to get the best chances by looking in one area over another. For me, empirically, I've had the best luck with women who came from good schools with good degrees. Is "the piece of paper alone" what matters? No -- but the traits matter, and I am more likely to find that where that "paper" exists, the compatible/desired traits do too with a higher probability. Would I date a woman who was equally intelligent and driven and witty and nerdy but didn't go to a good school and came from a similar social background? Absofrickinlutely, but my point is that they're a lot harder to track down.

 

Vertex you have every right to date who you find appealing and to desire a woman who has a good education like yourself. I bolded the last sentence because you know if you found that girl you would not be comfortable if she didn't go to what you consider to be a "good school". That's okay. I take issue with men who say they want to marry a girl who went to a "good school" but have sex on the other side of the tracks. That makes me sick.

[rollafan89]

I think really it differs for various people that are come from different backgrounds. In my case, it would be important since both of my parents have bachelor's degrees, and I'm just about to graduate from university with CJ degree as well... So, my parents would expect the girl to have equivalent degree as I do (or higher).

 

Of course, there are people that do not have the luxury to get college degrees as well. I know for one that my brother's girlfriend's father did not graduate from high school, but the mom did. It worked out fine for them and they do live very comfortably.

[Ihavenoidea]

Marsle, This is the part where I wish we could talk rather than over a forum. I didnt quote anything because then it would be really long and if I missed something or misunderstood let me know. I tried to cover most of it.

 

IN the information age I do not know why people dont persue IT skills or jobs. They are nearly a dime a dozen and can be found anywhere. I honestly can not say what stops them other than lack of inititive or lack of desire. Most IT professionals started at young ages with a general interest in computers and electronics while others fall into it.

 

I think IT wages are based off demand, but I also feel they are unsung heros so to speak. Doctors make the money they do for various reason and I won't challeneg it but everywhere you look today is a computer, and it NEEDs to work. Nuclear Power Stations, Satellites, Phones, The Hoover Dam, lighting grids, traffic monitoring systems, medical records, criminal files, schools, hostpitals, the internet, and various other things are all being stored on a cumputer transfering across a network.

 

You could argue that without IT literally nothing would work. Society is so dependant on computers that it would probably cease if all computers shutdown, remember the Y2K scare and that wasnt even that serious. Should we get paid as much as doctors, I could argue yes. I might not be the guy opening up someones chest but IT are the guys that make sure all computer systems around him are working. What if the power fails, or his medical records deleted the list of organ donors instantly gone, millions of things could happen. Military defesne system that are dependant on computers, NORAD missile defense platforms, Tanks, submarines, and basic weapon platforms all dependant on IT.

 

I have been called intelligent, highly intellectual but never intrinsic.

 

Trades are far less common and most trades are typically around, electricians or plumbers and things of that nature. I think we are all given a set of choices but it is up to us if we choose to find more than what is given to us. I was given a plan B but I also made sure I had a Plan C and a Plan D.

 

We have to power to make our own plans its just up to the individual on how much they want to pursue and how much they are willing to settle.

 

Would I had finished my degree if there wasn't a plan B? Yes and I sill might but its no longer a priority.

 

Because of this I will advise people to try and get an education. My friend dropped out of college and now works at Red Robin. He has no trade skills just a lack of funds for school. I have even offered to pay for him to finish his school because I know he will have more opportunities with a degree than without, but he could also persue a trade.

 

I wouldn't say my views are too accepting, I dont know anyone who really enjoys their job, but at a certain point you need to suck it up until you can retire. Both my parents hated their jobs but they couldnt quit or change because they had mouths to feed and a roof to keep up. The longer they worked at one place the harder it was to change, its easier at the college level to start or change careers, not when you are half way along.

 

I agree education is what you make of it. I also agree that everyone wants to live comfortably.

 

I am cruious what your views will be after 10 years, I am sure many will have stayed the same while others I think will change dramatically.

[Mimolicious]

Ihavenoidea, I was thinking of leaving my financial planner career to go into IT. Still thinking about going into, maybe in January.

[sweetjasmine]

I am talking about any degree because I was going to finish my degree and get my MS in Engineering Physics at the nations #1 Aerospace Engineering school, degree type doesnt matter

 

Yeah, you're right, an MD is exactly like an Associates Degree in Communication. Next time I need an appointment, I'll call up the latter.