Yet another sexless marriage rant

[mem11363]

First of all a handjob is what you give a BF you just aren't that into.

 

Second, totally forget about sex and write down a list of things that you feel are not fairly balanced in the marriage.

 

Is she doing way more heavy lifting? If so, step up. If you are doing way more heavy lifting, make up a chore list, split it in half and let her pick which half she wants to do. And then politely but firmly ensure that she does her fair share. STOP saying "I love you" first. Give her some space FCS!!! Let her say it to you - you can say it back. If she never says it - well you know something. Stop hugging her/buying her gifts - again GIVER HER SPACE. Stop crowding her with love, compliments, affection. Start spending less time together. Don't text her - unless she texts you first.

 

If she asks whats up - just say - a healthy relationship is a balanced relationship. And if she pushes it - just ask her what specifically she has a problem with. If she raises a valid point, fine. If she is just unhappy you aren't still "walking on eggshells" just smile and tell her that isn't a good way for you to live and it sure wasn't good for the marriage.

 

 

Mem11363 -

 

You have a pretty good way of summing my looong story up with your observations and I think they were well said. I never thought about that: "making someone happy is completely different than turning someone on". It's true! I didn't stop doing the things that make her happy. I still make her coffee every morning, do some of her chores when she's tired, give her a massage when I can, bring her flowers. I just don't tie those things to me getting sex. She thinks it's "sweet" and feels loved and cuddly. I'm discovering that OTHER things get her engine running and general happiness just lays the foundation.

 

"Overloving" Another good summation. That's an accurate description of the cycle I got into. It's true you know. We men get bored if it's too easy getting sex with no challenge and so we take our gf/wife for granted. Why wouldn't our wives feel the same way? It's kind of exciting knowing that she actually wants to seduce me and curl my toes now. It's even more exciting that she's likes me chasing her down and "catching" her now that it's not every freaking minute.

 

Also I feel sooo much better not thinking about it (sex) so much. I feel more secure and more....oh..I suppose the best way to describe it is "Manly Man" instead of "Whiny Boy"

 

Good point on the messy house being a roadblock more than a turn on. I agree that is more accurate. It's like setting the table before eating the meal. I just know now that when her environment is clean, warm, pleasant and private she then totally relaxes and get's into it. I become her sole focus and I love it.

[WalkingOnEggs]

First of all, you do NOT have a sexless marriage. Having sex even if it is three weeks apart is much more than those whose sex life consists of sex MONTHS apart. Believing that you have a sexless marriage makes it seem more desperate of a situation than it is. What you have is simply an incompatibility at the moment.

 

If this is different than normal, then my guess is that it is a result of either a busy schedule or a conflict in the marriage.

 

Second, if she thinks that you are happy with simply a handjob, then in her mind, you view sex as simply a release for you and not an expression of love between the two of you. At that point she may simply feel that any female body will do and she is simply the candidate because she is married to you. Viewing sex as a necessary means of expressing love is different than you "needing" it as a release of your sperm.

 

You must convince her that what you miss is the intimate connection between the two of you and not simply a sexual release. If it is only the sexual release that you miss, then you two have a bit of marriage work to do IMO.

 

This is not about her not wanting sex IMO but about her not feeling that sex is anything more than a means to YOUR satisfaction. Perhaps if she felt that it was an expression of your love to her, then maybe she would view it differently again. That is not saying that you have been a lousy lover. It simply says that maybe HER view of how YOU view sex is different than what you think it is.

 

An honest and open discussion is probably the only way that you will learn what she is thinking.

 

I dunno, maybe I have a high sex drive, but to me 3 weeks without sex is an eternity. In that time I'll have taken care of business on my own 20 times. I think we're arguing semantics.

 

Although I much prefer sex to a handjob, I disagree that it's not intimate nor binding. If it was an issue of simple release then the local "massage" parlor would do just fine. The same goes for when I would give her oral sex. It never crossed my mind that I was a human sex toy.

 

I did have that discussion with her some years ago. She somehow had the impression that men just "need to get off". We had a long discussion about that. I've told her and I have been telling her that *she* really does it for me.

 

And it's the truth. I get a boner just from looking at her sometimes. That doesn't happen with women I see at work or on the street even if they're very beautiful. Hell I even fantasize about her when I'm yanking my own chain (for the umpteenth time). She knows all this. I don't see how I can make it any clearer to her.

 

Honest discussions are not going to happen anymore. Had enough of those. I'd have nothing new to say.

[WalkingOnEggs]

OP, does your W have any hot girlfriends? Let them flirt with you. Don't keep them at arm's distance, like I know you do, being a good, faithful and respectful husband. It's even better if they're married. You'll learn a lot. I know I did. Learned and then left it all behind to find a healthier place. Make that MC appointment today. A marriage where you feel subservient and where your sexual desires go unfulfilled is good enough reason to ask for outside help. I know your wife will go and dress appropriately. Hope it works out

She has some hot looking married friends. But that sounds like playing with fire

[WalkingOnEggs]

In any case, I stopped being Mr. Lovey-Dovey since yesterday and already she's getting nervous. She texted me asking me what's wrong. And I wasn't giving her the silent treatment or anything. I was acting normal and friendly but I didn't make any sexual comments, nor did I move to kiss her when I got home. I'm pretty sure when I get home she's going to put the third degree to me to know what the problem is (as if she didn't already know).

[Scrybe]

Great! Tell her there isn't anything wrong...because there isn't. If she gives you affection then accept it but otherwise try your best to act normal. Enjoy your time with her or doing your own thing but don't stare at her, drool over her or caress her. Let her initiate. Be kind and loving but put sex out of your mind for now. If she's ALREADY reacting then things may move along faster than I thought. Now...at this point I was thinking to myself "WHY do we have to play stupid games like this??" Don't go there. It's not a game. You're just giving her space. You're giving her a chance to figure out how she's feeling. Likely she's feeling like she wants to be with you but you're in her face so much she can't get there so this is a good thing. Keep us posted!

[mem11363]

Calmly explain that your goal is simply to achieve a healthy balance in how much love you express towards each other (verbal, affection, sexual).

 

The typical trap of these type conversations is she will be asking for a lot of reassurance. Personally I think it is fine to tell her you love her and are committed to your marriage. If she starts asking for a lot of sexual attraction reassurance - I would change the subject back to reaching balance and you working on not crowding her.

 

 

In any case, I stopped being Mr. Lovey-Dovey since yesterday and already she's getting nervous. She texted me asking me what's wrong. And I wasn't giving her the silent treatment or anything. I was acting normal and friendly but I didn't make any sexual comments, nor did I move to kiss her when I got home. I'm pretty sure when I get home she's going to put the third degree to me to know what the problem is (as if she didn't already know).

[mem11363]

WOE,

I agree with you that sex once every 3 weeks is total torture for most men. In a healthy emotional relationship a wife simply won't impose that level of deprivation on the man.

 

James situation is unusual - for a super long time it was sexless (for no apparent reason.) Now his wife has some medical issues that cause her pain / fatigue. So James has a very different definition of what is reasonable.

 

 

I dunno, maybe I have a high sex drive, but to me 3 weeks without sex is an eternity. In that time I'll have taken care of business on my own 20 times. I think we're arguing semantics.

 

Although I much prefer sex to a handjob, I disagree that it's not intimate nor binding. If it was an issue of simple release then the local "massage" parlor would do just fine. The same goes for when I would give her oral sex. It never crossed my mind that I was a human sex toy.

 

I did have that discussion with her some years ago. She somehow had the impression that men just "need to get off". We had a long discussion about that. I've told her and I have been telling her that *she* really does it for me.

 

And it's the truth. I get a boner just from looking at her sometimes. That doesn't happen with women I see at work or on the street even if they're very beautiful. Hell I even fantasize about her when I'm yanking my own chain (for the umpteenth time). She knows all this. I don't see how I can make it any clearer to her.

 

Honest discussions are not going to happen anymore. Had enough of those. I'd have nothing new to say.

[JamesM]

I dunno, maybe I have a high sex drive, but to me 3 weeks without sex is an eternity. In that time I'll have taken care of business on my own 20 times. I think we're arguing semantics.

 

Perhaps it is semantics. But perhaps it is how much sex you think should be in the relationship versus how much SHE thinks should be in the relationship.

 

Three weeks is a long time, but for me, it is not that long. With my busy schedule and hers...three weeks go by quickly.

 

My point was not to minimize your feelings but to simply show that this is definitely not unsolvable. I would think it is a relationship issue.

 

Although I much prefer sex to a handjob, I disagree that it's not intimate nor binding. If it was an issue of simple release then the local "massage" parlor would do just fine. The same goes for when I would give her oral sex. It never crossed my mind that I was a human sex toy.

 

You may think it is intimate because you are receiving the pleasure. In her mind she could be no different than the girl at the MP. If she thinks you are simply satisfied with a handjob, then she may wonder what the sexual act means to you. Is it about your satisfaction or about "our" satisfaction? I am not saying that is what you think, but she could be thinking that way.

 

My wife will occasionally give me a hj or bj, but truthfully, I feel like I missed the best part...that intimate connection with her when we physically touch and kiss and "cuddle." The actual climax is so little compared to the complete experience. For me, I would rather have sex with her once in three weeks and wait, rather than have her fill in the other two weeks with a hj.

 

I did have that discussion with her some years ago. She somehow had the impression that men just "need to get off". We had a long discussion about that. I've told her and I have been telling her that *she* really does it for me.

 

Yes, but should it be about what she does for you or about what the two of you do together? Is it satisfying for you if you have an orgasm? Is it satisfying for her if only you has the orgasm? What does she want and expect from sex?

 

I would be careful to steer away from this lack of sex simply being her fault. I have been accused of thinking that of my own marriage, but inside I know that usually it is about both people...not just one.

 

And it's the truth. I get a boner just from looking at her sometimes. That doesn't happen with women I see at work or on the street even if they're very beautiful. Hell I even fantasize about her when I'm yanking my own chain (for the umpteenth time). She knows all this. I don't see how I can make it any clearer to her.

 

What does she know? That you want her sexually for your satisfaction, or that you want the two of you to have a mutual expression of love? I know that sounds corny, but the fact is...women like sex to mean much more than simply sex.

 

Honest discussions are not going to happen anymore. Had enough of those. I'd have nothing new to say.

 

Then I question whether there will be change. You can manipulate her emotions by withholding emotional support, but this will not gain a long term solution IMO. It will get her nervous about your relationship and she may be scared into "wanting" sex with you, but having done that and been there, I can say that it will be a short term fix.

 

This IMO is not about simply sex....it is about the future of your relationship.

[JamesM]

WOE,

I agree with you that sex once every 3 weeks is total torture for most men. In a healthy emotional relationship a wife simply won't impose that level of deprivation on the man.

 

I am simply saying that the definition of this relationship is an incompatibility. Many men can go without sex for three weeks and not consider it torture. Other men cannot go three days and then consider the marriage sexless.

 

IMO a wife and husband that have a healthy marriage BOTH consider the amount of sex satisfying. It may be once a week, once a day, or even only once a month. The problem arises when one wants more or less than the other.

 

James situation is unusual - for a super long time it was sexless (for no apparent reason.) Now his wife has some medical issues that cause her pain / fatigue. So James has a very different definition of what is reasonable.

 

The medical issues have been there for about as long as our marriage has had less sex than I would have liked. This is about ten years. The sexual frequency has gone up and down over the years. The sex life also diminished greatly while she did a third shift...for over ten years. Since she quit the night shift, more of her libido has returned.

 

There have been possible reasons, but none have stood out significantly over the years. Her own words have been numerous times...."I feel so much better now that I am on a day shift." Physically she is better. Emotionally she is better. And perhaps I treat her better because she is easier to live with. In a discussion a few nights ago, she made the comment: " I have not been a good wife for the past few years, have I?" I said (and not angrily or sarcastically): "No, you haven't." She chuckled at my honesty but didn't get mad, because she sees herself how she is different.

 

My definition of what I think is reasonable IS different than other men. I have said it before and have no problem agreeing with it again.

 

But that is a separate issue from what is a hopelessly sexless marriage versus a situation where sex has simply diminished to once every couple of weeks.

 

I do agree that this should be resolved sooner than later or it may be unsolvable, but I think every aspect of the relationship should be examined before assuming it is all about her...unless there is evidence that she has a medical condition/illness or has experienced some sort of sexual abuse that might cause sex to be unsatisfying in some way.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Mem11363 -

 

You have a pretty good way of summing my looong story up with your observations and I think they were well said. I never thought about that: "making someone happy is completely different than turning someone on". It's true! I didn't stop doing the things that make her happy. I still make her coffee every morning, do some of her chores when she's tired, give her a massage when I can, bring her flowers. I just don't tie those things to me getting sex. She thinks it's "sweet" and feels loved and cuddly. I'm discovering that OTHER things get her engine running and general happiness just lays the foundation.

 

"Overloving" Another good summation. That's an accurate description of the cycle I got into. It's true you know. We men get bored if it's too easy getting sex with no challenge and so we take our gf/wife for granted. Why wouldn't our wives feel the same way? It's kind of exciting knowing that she actually wants to seduce me and curl my toes now. It's even more exciting that she's likes me chasing her down and "catching" her now that it's not every freaking minute.

 

Also I feel sooo much better not thinking about it (sex) so much. I feel more secure and more....oh..I suppose the best way to describe it is "Manly Man" instead of "Whiny Boy"

 

Good point on the messy house being a roadblock more than a turn on. I agree that is more accurate. It's like setting the table before eating the meal. I just know now that when her environment is clean, warm, pleasant and private she then totally relaxes and get's into it. I become her sole focus and I love it.

 

sex now improving to 1X/wk?!?!? Whoop de doo..... I can't stand all this Alpha talk and the things "we" have to do, including not thinking or wanting sex, and basically holding back in order to get more then a morsel.

 

Yes I have done all the above (+ your other post) and things are much better here too. Yes I do ask about sex in a joking manner, with absolutely no pressure.... I try and be more aloof too and we both do our own thing. But the ball is always in her court, and this is the case for almost every male here.

 

So scrybe are you anywhere near the amount of sex YOU would Like?

 

This is where I am lost and don't get it.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Toodamnpragmatic

[mem11363]

James,

I agree that if both are satisfied with frequency/quality - that is what matters.

 

The point I was trying to make is that you have a toxic environment when you have a spouse who thinks 2 times a week is good and their spouse appears to be trying to find the bare minimum frequency that won't actually cause a divorce.

 

And I think the biggest issue to start with in these situations is the idea of shared responsibility. IMO the LD spouse is every bit as responsible for solving the problem as the HD spouse. If my W wanted sex more frequently than I do - which I admit is scary - like if she wanted sex every day - I don't think I could consistently do that. BUT I would tell her a list of things she could do that tend to boost my drive. She could wear skirts every day, she could be more affectionate before we got in bed, etc.

 

And that stuff would boost my drive. As for the nights I didn't want to, I hope I would offer just to please her.

 

 

 

I am simply saying that the definition of this relationship is an incompatibility. Many men can go without sex for three weeks and not consider it torture. Other men cannot go three days and then consider the marriage sexless.

 

IMO a wife and husband that have a healthy marriage BOTH consider the amount of sex satisfying. It may be once a week, once a day, or even only once a month. The problem arises when one wants more or less than the other.

 

 

 

The medical issues have been there for about as long as our marriage has had less sex than I would have liked. This is about ten years. The sexual frequency has gone up and down over the years. The sex life also diminished greatly while she did a third shift...for over ten years. Since she quit the night shift, more of her libido has returned.

 

There have been possible reasons, but none have stood out significantly over the years. Her own words have been numerous times...."I feel so much better now that I am on a day shift." Physically she is better. Emotionally she is better. And perhaps I treat her better because she is easier to live with. In a discussion a few nights ago, she made the comment: " I have not been a good wife for the past few years, have I?" I said (and not angrily or sarcastically): "No, you haven't." She chuckled at my honesty but didn't get mad, because she sees herself how she is different.

 

My definition of what I think is reasonable IS different than other men. I have said it before and have no problem agreeing with it again.

 

But that is a separate issue from what is a hopelessly sexless marriage versus a situation where sex has simply diminished to once every couple of weeks.

 

I do agree that this should be resolved sooner than later or it may be unsolvable, but I think every aspect of the relationship should be examined before assuming it is all about her...unless there is evidence that she has a medical condition/illness or has experienced some sort of sexual abuse that might cause sex to be unsatisfying in some way.

[Scrybe]

sex now improving to 1X/wk?!?!? Whoop de doo..... I can't stand all this Alpha talk and the things "we" have to do, including not thinking or wanting sex, and basically holding back in order to get more then a morsel.

 

Yes I have done all the above (+ your other post) and things are much better here too. Yes I do ask about sex in a joking manner, with absolutely no pressure.... I try and be more aloof too and we both do our own thing. But the ball is always in her court, and this is the case for almost every male here.

 

So scrybe are you anywhere near the amount of sex YOU would Like?

 

This is where I am lost and don't get it.

 

To answer your question no. Not quite but getting close. What's great is that I can look back and see a steady progression of improvement. I also want to point out that I said "at least 1x/week" but lately it's been twice a week.

 

As far as the ball being in her court. You're right about that. It's the most frustrating part. But...as unnatural as this may feel....backing off and turning down the pressure has slowly given me my power back. It's still mostly in her control but I have WAY more say about when and how we have sex than 6 months ago. I expect to have more say 6 months from now.

 

You mentioned being "aloof". I don't want to get into semantics but if I assume you meant the most obvious definition of the word then I would suggest that you try something similar but different. Aloofness smacks of negative energy or coming from a negative place. I'm not aloof. I just don't "overlove" her the way I used to. I don't give in to the temptation of seeing her as a tasty sexual snack whenever she walks by. I'm extremely attracted to my wife and I think she should be flattered but she's not and that pissed me off. Now I understand that she is a little flattered but it's hard for her to react when it's like a constant background noise. It's like she can sense my sexual need for her ....all...the...time. I'm not aloof. I just let her try to seduce me in her own way. I respond to her attempts to get my attention and make her work for it a little bit. I'll see her in a cute outfit and I want to tell her what I think but now I don't. Maybe later in the day she'll send me signals via her body language that she wants my attention. Maybe she'll aske me what I think. Then I give her what she wants which is my attention.

 

I don't know why it works but it just does. Now because my looks or comments don't come around so often she appreciates it more. If I totally ignored her she would feel insecure and that's the wrong message.

 

But what would I like in a perfect world? I'd like to have sex at least 2x/week with us having it 3x/week sporadically throughout the month.

 

Am I satisfied now? Honestly I think so. It's not ideal. I get the feeling that some weeks we'll have more sex than others but I don't fear that we'll go the 10-15 days without sex like before.

 

What I feel best about is that I still see it getting better based on her responses the last few months.

 

Don't misunderstand. Of course I'm putting in more effort than before and I had to make some changes. I also had to really look at my relationship to sex and what it means to me. That also changed some things for me. She's responding in a positive way and that works for me. She's doing the same sort of introspective thinking and work on her end but for other matters in our relationship. In that regard SHE's the one trying to change and give me space and trust me. Like I said before...we both had some underlying issues that needed to be addressed on an ongoing basis and so far it's been working for us.

 

The idea isn't to be perfect but to be able to bounce back as a couple when we hit a wall instead of turning on each other.

 

Bottom line: Not only is the sex more often. It's better sex.

 

I was literlly walking around with a smile on my face after our encounter last Saturday. The next time we hooked up was Monday morning before work. She was tired and doesn't like it in the morning but I asked for it. The last year she's been turning me down in the mornings so I stopped asking. This time she hesitated but then thought about it and decided to make it happen for me. That's the change. She's actually thinking about how I feel and what I need and she's being there for me. In the end we bothe enjoyed ourselves.

 

We'll probably get together again This Friday or Saturday again. Every 4-5 days works for me. We have two small kids and both work full time so that's a win in my book.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Scrybe

[mem11363]

I am willing to do just about anything my wife asks me. In return she feels that meeting my sexual needs is part of being a good wife.

 

I certainly do not approach her for sex when I know she is dead tired or in a bad emotional state. But any other time she feels it is her responsibility to make the effort to please me.

 

Lets face it - absent some serious issue - when your spouse says "no" it sounds more like "your needs aren't important to me".

 

If instead they say "can we connect tomorrow?" and then they make good on that, it feels very different.

 

Ultimately - real love includes a genuine desire to please you partner and an equally strong desire to avoid causing them distress.

 

To answer your question no. Not quite but getting close. What's great is that I can look back and see a steady progression of improvement. I also want to point out that I said "at least 1x/week" but lately it's been twice a week.

 

As far as the ball being in her court. You're right about that. It's the most frustrating part. But...as unnatural as this may feel....backing off and turning down the pressure has slowly given me my power back. It's still mostly in her control but I have WAY more say about when and how we have sex than 6 months ago. I expect to have more say 6 months from now.

 

But what would I like in a perfect world? I'd like to have sex at least 2x/week with us having it 3x/week sporadically throughout the month.

 

Am I satisfied now? Honestly I think so. It's not ideal. I get the feeling that some weeks we'll have more sex than others but I don't fear that we'll go the 10-15 days without sex like before.

 

What I feel best about is that I still see it getting better based on her responses the last few months.

 

Don't misunderstand. Of course I'm putting in more effort than before and I had to make some changes. I also had to really look at my relationship to sex and what it means to me. That also changed some things for me. She's responding in a positive way and that works for me. She's doing the same sort of introspective thinking and work on her end but for other matters in our relationship. In that regard SHE's the one trying to change and give me space and trust me. Like I said before...we both had some underlying issues that needed to be addressed on an ongoing basis and so far it's been working for us.

 

The idea isn't to be perfect but to be able to bounce back as a couple when we hit a wall instead of turning on each other.

 

Bottom line: Not only is the sex more often. It's better sex.

 

I was literlly walking around with a smile on my face after our encounter last Saturday. The next time we hooked up was Monday morning before work. She was tired and doesn't like it in the morning but I asked for it. The last year she's been turning me down in the mornings so I stopped asking. This time she hesitated but then thought about it and decided to make it happen for me. That's the change. She's actually thinking about how I feel and what I need and she's being there for me. In the end we bothe enjoyed ourselves.

 

We'll probably get together again This Friday or Saturday again. Every 4-5 days works for me. We have two small kids and both work full time so that's a win in my book.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

and you have subconsciously acquiesced to your wife's desires.

 

Every time you write, you take more and more the "female' side and way of thinking and turning it on the male.

 

Your avatar is a male tearing his hair out, and frankly that is no longer you.... You have become a wuss:p;) taking up the woman's pov and neutering yourself, turning off your libido and making excuses....

 

Really were you that that busy that three weeks could pass without thinking or wanting sex????

 

Right now my wife is up 4 days a week at 5:15-5:30 for a 6:30 training session (she teaches)..... Thus so am I.... Do I admit that I joke we are too tired at night.... Yep.... But there is those other 3 days, that we can "sleep in".....

 

I really appreciate your posts JamesM, but more and more you are being lured to the "dark side":p....

 

Scrybe - You're right I used aloof wrong and am really happy to hear your "progress".... I too figured the 2-3X's/week is the hope of most "normal" males (JamesM notwithstanding). Hope it continues and I too will put into motion some more of your "tips".....

[mem11363]

I think Scrybe is focused on the right stuff.

 

I actually think that lightly "under-loving" someone in quantity while keeping the quality high AND being generally a great companion - is a highly effective combo. If your spouse doesn't CONSISTENTLY smile/radiate happy vibe when they first see you each day you are spending to much time with them and/or not being a good companion.

 

I also think that totally masking your sexual desires on nights you don't plan to have sex is very important. If you constantly radiate a sexual vibe at a low drive spouse you are inadvertently creating a "hostile" atmosphere.

 

To balance this out a bit - if your LD spouse flirts with you and then doesn't connect that is SADISTIC. And I believe that type behavior needs to be addressed. Same thing with asking for compliments. If my wife were starving me and asked me "do you think I look HOT in this summer dress?" I would ask her "Who is it you wish to arouse with that dress?" And if the answer was she wanted to arouse me - I would say - "wear that on the nights you want me to tear your clothes off - otherwise you are being sadistic" all said with a smile. But if she wore it and then ignored me - I would begin to steadily and relentlessly reduce the amount of time we spent together. You cannot stop your wife from being sadistic - but you can deprive her of your company if she abuses you.

 

I am not going to call James names - that is not constructive. But I agree that his posture is very one sided, as are his concepts of what constitute acceptable female behavior and acceptable sexual frequency.

 

If we males didn't meet one of our wives needs to feel loved. If we failed to listen to her, or give her gifts (or whatever her love languages are), and she posted - you can bet James and others would not put all the burden on her for figuring out the complex mix of steps SHE needed to take to get him to do what she wants.

 

and you have subconsciously acquiesced to your wife's desires.

 

Every time you write, you take more and more the "female' side and way of thinking and turning it on the male.

 

Your avatar is a male tearing his hair out, and frankly that is no longer you.... You have become a wuss:p;) taking up the woman's pov and neutering yourself, turning off your libido and making excuses....

 

Really were you that that busy that three weeks could pass without thinking or wanting sex????

 

Right now my wife is up 4 days a week at 5:15-5:30 for a 6:30 training session (she teaches)..... Thus so am I.... Do I admit that I joke we are too tired at night.... Yep.... But there is those other 3 days, that we can "sleep in".....

 

I really appreciate your posts JamesM, but more and more you are being lured to the "dark side":p....

 

Scrybe - You're right I used aloof wrong and am really happy to hear your "progress".... I too figured the 2-3X's/week is the hope of most "normal" males (JamesM notwithstanding). Hope it continues and I too will put into motion some more of your "tips".....

[JamesM]

and you have subconsciously acquiesced to your wife's desires.

 

How? Because I made the statement that I can go for three weeks? I also have stated that we have sex on average about once a week over the past three or four months...despite my busy schedule.

 

Every time you write, you take more and more the "female' side and way of thinking and turning it on the male.

 

Perhaps that is why my sex life is better now than it has been in months.

 

Your avatar is a male tearing his hair out, and frankly that is no longer you....

 

No, my avatar is and has always been "me" at the telephone talking or listening and laughing. Looking closely one can see that "my" hand is simply resting at the back of my head.

 

You have become a wuss:p;) taking up the woman's pov and neutering yourself, turning off your libido and making excuses....

 

Actually, I have been more forceful with my wife regarding sex and it has proven to be helpful. I am not turning off my libido nor do I feel hat I am making excuses. I simply said that...whatever.

 

Really were you that that busy that three weeks could pass without thinking or wanting sex????

 

I did not say that I never thought of sex nor did I ever want it. I also can add that my wife and I are quite physical even if we do not have the time or desire for sex. Again, I simply said that since I am working 60 to 70 hours a week now over six days, sex is not a priority. And when I get home at night, there are numerous outdoor chores and "play time" with the kids. It even sounds odd to me, but sex can take a back burner. Despite all of that, we are having more sex.

 

Right now my wife is up 4 days a week at 5:15-5:30 for a 6:30 training session (she teaches)..... Thus so am I.... Do I admit that I joke we are too tired at night.... Yep.... But there is those other 3 days, that we can "sleep in".....

 

Good for you. We have NO mornings that we can simply sleep in.

 

I really appreciate your posts JamesM, but more and more you are being lured to the "dark side":p....

 

It is working for me.

[WalkingOnEggs]

I am willing to do just about anything my wife asks me. In return she feels that meeting my sexual needs is part of being a good wife.

 

I certainly do not approach her for sex when I know she is dead tired or in a bad emotional state. But any other time she feels it is her responsibility to make the effort to please me.

 

Lets face it - absent some serious issue - when your spouse says "no" it sounds more like "your needs aren't important to me".

 

If instead they say "can we connect tomorrow?" and then they make good on that, it feels very different.

 

Ultimately - real love includes a genuine desire to please you partner and an equally strong desire to avoid causing them distress.

 

Well that's just it. My wife frequently gets a tight neck and shoulders so at night, she'll ask me to give her a shoulder/neck rub until her joints and tendons release a crack. That's 3 or 4 times a week and it takes me longer to do that than for us to have sex sometimes. Sometimes it takes over a half hour and I don't get anything out of that except the satisfaction of knowing that it makes her feel good. Sometimes I give her a foot massages as well. It would never cross my mind to deny her this especially because of some nebulous mood I need to be in for me to do that.

 

So let's say for argument's sake that a wife giving a handjob/blowjob occasionally to her husband does nothing for her at all, why wouldn't she do it anyway if she knew it meant that much to him?

 

I wouldn't have the heart to purposely deny my wife the massages if I knew that not getting them was making her increasingly uncomfortable. I think I'd have to be a complete a**hole to use that as a means of leverage to get something else.

 

Am I missing something here?

[WalkingOnEggs]

I don't think this is simply the fault of the wife. As one who usually sees it that way, I think that maybe this is a breakdown in the communication of what is wanted here.

 

Does she think the OP simply wants more sexual releases. or does she truly think that he wants a more intimate connection with her?

 

I think the dressing up tangent is a red herring.

 

If I read what you have said regarding what you want, WOE, then I wonder if your wife sees it as I have read it. If so, then the answer IMO is some redefining to her as to what you "want" from her in the sexual intimacy area.

 

Why is it so complicated all of the sudden? When we were dating and first married, we'd screw like jackrabbits 10 times a week. When I'd get back from work we'd be at it within 3 minutes. Nobody sat around analyzing "what it is you want from sex". We just DID it!

[xxoo]

So let's say for argument's sake that a wife giving a handjob/blowjob occasionally to her husband does nothing for her at all, why wouldn't she do it anyway if she knew it meant that much to him?

 

I wouldn't have the heart to purposely deny my wife the massages if I knew that not getting them was making her increasingly uncomfortable. I think I'd have to be a complete a**hole to use that as a means of leverage to get something else.

 

Am I missing something here?

 

Well, in my mind, it is different. For one thing, you could rub your own penis and relieve discomfort, if that was all that is needed.

 

But that isn't all that is needed, is it? It is about connection and intimacy. Sexual acts are extremely intimate, and the health of the sex life will often mirror the health of the intimacy in the couple.

 

Why is it so complicated all of the sudden? When we were dating and first married, we'd screw like jackrabbits 10 times a week. When I'd get back from work we'd be at it within 3 minutes. Nobody sat around analyzing "what it is you want from sex". We just DID it!

 

Extremely good question. MC might help you find out the answer.

[WalkingOnEggs]

Well, in my mind, it is different. For one thing, you could rub your own penis and relieve discomfort, if that was all that is needed.

 

But that isn't all that is needed, is it? It is about connection and intimacy. Sexual acts are extremely intimate, and the health of the sex life will often mirror the health of the intimacy in the couple.

 

 

 

Extremely good question. MC might help you find out the answer.

 

If I were to follow your logic, I'd say she could give herself a neck rub/foot rub. But it's not the same is it?

[JamesM]

Why is it so complicated all of the sudden? When we were dating and first married, we'd screw like jackrabbits 10 times a week. When I'd get back from work we'd be at it within 3 minutes. Nobody sat around analyzing "what it is you want from sex". We just DID it!

 

As xxoo said, MC may help get to the bottom of this.

 

Life happens. People change and discover who the other person is. Attitudes and conflicts cause barriers. Anger and resentments can cause sex to be much less enjoyable.

 

As much anger and frustration that you have and as much as you say that talking will not help, I respectfully disagree. Unless she is having an affair or has some personal issue that causes her to dislike sex suddenly, then it somehow is the result of your relationship. And discovering the problem is the only way to solve this IMO. And problem discovery comes from communication with or without MC. Having been there, I know that sex talks lead no where if she thinks "this is all about you wanting sex" even if it is not.

[Scrybe]

Well that's just it. My wife frequently gets a tight neck and shoulders so at night, she'll ask me to give her a shoulder/neck rub until her joints and tendons release a crack. That's 3 or 4 times a week and it takes me longer to do that than for us to have sex sometimes. Sometimes it takes over a half hour and I don't get anything out of that except the satisfaction of knowing that it makes her feel good. Sometimes I give her a foot massages as well. It would never cross my mind to deny her this especially because of some nebulous mood I need to be in for me to do that.

 

So let's say for argument's sake that a wife giving a handjob/blowjob occasionally to her husband does nothing for her at all, why wouldn't she do it anyway if she knew it meant that much to him?

 

I wouldn't have the heart to purposely deny my wife the massages if I knew that not getting them was making her increasingly uncomfortable. I think I'd have to be a complete a**hole to use that as a means of leverage to get something else.

 

Am I missing something here?

 

Again - my situation was similar to yours and I think you and I think alike. I also gave her massages several times a week because I cared for her. Because I loved her and wanted her to feel good. Even if I was tired. Sometimes I would go the "extra mile" to show her that I cared. So - just like you I thought she should feel the same way when it came to sex with me. Logical right?

 

Throw "logic" out the window. It just doesn't work that way. Whether you think it's fair or logical it doesn't matter. What matters is that you want better sex more often right?

 

My suggestion? When you're tired and not in the mood to give her a massage. Tell her 'not tonight'. Not to be mean or spiteful. Just to be honest. I decided to start telling her 'no'. It was hard at first. Then I discovered that if I was being honest with myself....sometimes I just didn't feel up to it. She does the same to me when it comes to sex. I think...I think she started to respect my honesty. That I set boundaries. Boundaries that she could push up against. She began to be more vocal and direct about her needs. Even pouting to sway me. I had no idea I had gotten to this place. Why was it so hard for me to say 'no' to her?

 

This was a revelation.

 

Well....eventually 2 things happened. The first is that she noticed. She noticed me and she noticed how much she loved getting massages. She noticed the small little things I did for her because they didn't come unbidden...so easy that she could discard them. Take them for granted.

 

The 2nd thing is she worked for it a little more. In other words she appreciated me and what I did. It just happened in a natural sort of way.

 

In answer to your question about "doing it like rabbits" in the past and now why is it so complicated...

 

You know....I felt the same way. I just had to accept that things changed. We see each other everyday. We sleep in the same bed every night. I've watched her give birth to my child. She's taken care of me during illness. We've both seen each other at our best and worst. I think at a deep level the mystique, uncertainty and the excitement it brings seems to be gone.

 

I don't believe it is gone but it seems that way to couples some times. You've got to put the mystique back in to the mix and give her what you gave her in the beginning. A little excitement. A little danger. Anticipation. Help her to wonder..."will it happen tonight?" "Can I get him excited?" "

Is he thinking about me?" Again...not in a negative manipulative way but a fun positive way. Giving her space and giving her the chance to flirt and seduce you in HER way is the place to start.

 

You can't get there if you simply sit and moan that things should just BE they way they were. Hey man...I don't disagree with you. If I had it my way things would always be like the first 6 months. I think accepting that you have to change your 'game' a little as time goes on is the best way to go. Be fluid, flexible, dynamic. Don't get caught frozen in time. Relax....this is a new phase for you two and you can enjoy it or you can suffer through it but it's going forward with or without you.

[Scrybe]

What he said. Good point.

 

As xxoo said, MC may help get to the bottom of this.

 

Life happens. People change and discover who the other person is. Attitudes and conflicts cause barriers. Anger and resentments can cause sex to be much less enjoyable.

 

As much anger and frustration that you have and as much as you say that talking will not help, I respectfully disagree. Unless she is having an affair or has some personal issue that causes her to dislike sex suddenly, then it somehow is the result of your relationship. And discovering the problem is the only way to solve this IMO. And problem discovery comes from communication with or without MC. Having been there, I know that sex talks lead no where if she thinks "this is all about you wanting sex" even if it is not.

[mem11363]

I honestly thought that me being a bit difficult and edgy by nature was bad for our marriage. I look back and realize that it was great for our sex life.

 

I mostly said yes to stuff - but when I said no and she pushed the no became "not until you hear the distant crackling sound of hell freezing over"

 

As for familiarity - my view is to spend time together doing new - ideally difficult and mildly risky things. Rock climbing walls are fun. Actually I would love to get a full set of pads (gloves and feet) - and helmets for full contact sparring. I actually like the idea of my wife hitting me really hard - watching me shrug it off, get back up and come back at her. I have no desire to hit her and knock her down. Pinning her - whole nother story. We would have to do something to offset - size/muscle mass disparity.

 

 

 

Again - my situation was similar to yours and I think you and I think alike. I also gave her massages several times a week because I cared for her. Because I loved her and wanted her to feel good. Even if I was tired. Sometimes I would go the "extra mile" to show her that I cared. So - just like you I thought she should feel the same way when it came to sex with me. Logical right?

 

Throw "logic" out the window. It just doesn't work that way. Whether you think it's fair or logical it doesn't matter. What matters is that you want better sex more often right?

 

My suggestion? When you're tired and not in the mood to give her a massage. Tell her 'not tonight'. Not to be mean or spiteful. Just to be honest. I decided to start telling her 'no'. It was hard at first. Then I discovered that if I was being honest with myself....sometimes I just didn't feel up to it. She does the same to me when it comes to sex. I think...I think she started to respect my honesty. That I set boundaries. Boundaries that she could push up against. She began to be more vocal and direct about her needs. Even pouting to sway me. I had no idea I had gotten to this place. Why was it so hard for me to say 'no' to her?

 

This was a revelation.

 

Well....eventually 2 things happened. The first is that she noticed. She noticed me and she noticed how much she loved getting massages. She noticed the small little things I did for her because they didn't come unbidden...so easy that she could discard them. Take them for granted.

 

The 2nd thing is she worked for it a little more. In other words she appreciated me and what I did. It just happened in a natural sort of way.

 

In answer to your question about "doing it like rabbits" in the past and now why is it so complicated...

 

You know....I felt the same way. I just had to accept that things changed. We see each other everyday. We sleep in the same bed every night. I've watched her give birth to my child. She's taken care of me during illness. We've both seen each other at our best and worst. I think at a deep level the mystique, uncertainty and the excitement it brings seems to be gone.

 

I don't believe it is gone but it seems that way to couples some times. You've got to put the mystique back in to the mix and give her what you gave her in the beginning. A little excitement. A little danger. Anticipation. Help her to wonder..."will it happen tonight?" "Can I get him excited?" "

Is he thinking about me?" Again...not in a negative manipulative way but a fun positive way. Giving her space and giving her the chance to flirt and seduce you in HER way is the place to start.

 

You can't get there if you simply sit and moan that things should just BE they way they were. Hey man...I don't disagree with you. If I had it my way things would always be like the first 6 months. I think accepting that you have to change your 'game' a little as time goes on is the best way to go. Be fluid, flexible, dynamic. Don't get caught frozen in time. Relax....this is a new phase for you two and you can enjoy it or you can suffer through it but it's going forward with or without you.

[Scrybe]

Haha...he said "pinning her" hahaha....

 

Ahem...

 

Actually that sounds pretty fun. Can't wait to get home tonight!

I honestly thought that me being a bit difficult and edgy by nature was bad for our marriage. I look back and realize that it was great for our sex life.

 

I mostly said yes to stuff - but when I said no and she pushed the no became "not until you hear the distant crackling sound of hell freezing over"

 

As for familiarity - my view is to spend time together doing new - ideally difficult and mildly risky things. Rock climbing walls are fun. Actually I would love to get a full set of pads (gloves and feet) - and helmets for full contact sparring. I actually like the idea of my wife hitting me really hard - watching me shrug it off, get back up and come back at her. I have no desire to hit her and knock her down. Pinning her - whole nother story. We would have to do something to offset - size/muscle mass disparity.